Petition for IMG to practice as Midlevel Providers

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Imedgrad

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Attention to Medical Community & All IMG to have their voice heard. This petition "Privileges For International Medical Graduates Act" is requesting an equal opportunity for all IMG to practice as GP or Midlevel providers. If PA, NP, and ANP can practice medicine with an unrestricted license we IMG should be treated equally since our struggle is enduring. Many IMG are working day to day jobs, in the struggle to pay student loans or unable to pay overcharged USMLE examinations fees, and reapplying for match year after year. Please let your voice heard, share your struggle and stories. Please sign the petition in support of International Medical Graduates.


We are trying to make a difference. We need your support. Please sign the petition.




chng.it

Sign the Petition

Privileges For International Medical Graduates Act
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Imedgrad said:
Attention to Medical Community & All IMG to have their voice heard. This petition "Privileges For International Medical Graduates Act" is requesting an equal opportunity for all IMG to practice as GP or Midlevel providers. If PA, NP, and ANP can practice medicine with an unrestricted license we IMG should be treated equally since our struggle is enduring. Many IMG are working day to day jobs, in the struggle to pay student loans or unable to pay overcharged USMLE examinations fees, and reapplying for match year after year. Please let your voice heard, share your struggle and stories. Please sign the petition in support of International Medical Graduates.


We are trying to make a difference. We need your support. Please sign the petition.




chng.it

Sign the Petition

Privileges For International Medical Graduates Act
chng.it chng.it
Click to expand...

Or IMGs can work in the same role as PAs or NPs? Would be a win-win for both sides. We'd get infinitely better qualified people and IMGs would make significantly more than they would as MDs in their home countries.

Also, tasting the salty tears of the NP lobby would be delicious as they get pushed out
 
ElCapone said:
Or IMGs can work in the same role as PAs or NPs? Would be a win-win for both sides. We'd get infinitely better qualified people and IMGs would make significantly more than they would as MDs in their home countries.

Also, tasting the salty tears of the NP lobby would be delicious as they get pushed out
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I would disagree actually. How medicine is practiced in other countries can be dramatically different than how we do things here. I would be concerned if the IMG didnt have experience in the current system.
 
Many people are unable to join or go through PA or NP simply because programs do not accept international credits or degrees. Many IMG are US citizens or have legal residence status. PA/NP school require to have shown a GRE, or a bachelor's or master's degree to join their programs. There is no reason to revert backward. There been a recent bill that passed which allows NP and PA to work unsupervised and they do not go through residency as it is. Regardless IMGs are far more qualified to works Midlevel providers and they should be given equal opportunities and not be discriminated.
 
Imedgrad said:
Many people are unable to join or go through PA or NP simply because programs do not accept international credits or degrees. Many IMG are US citizens or have legal residence status. PA/NP school require to have shown a GRE, or a bachelor's or master's degree to join their programs. There is no reason to revert backward. There been a recent bill that passed which allows NP and PA to work unsupervised and they do not go through residency as it is. Regardless IMGs are far more qualified to works Midlevel providers and they should be given equal opportunities and not be discriminated.
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I am referring to US-IMG's when I say they should have pursued NP/PA school. In regards to their unrestricted practice rights in different states, many in the medical community like myself believe that is unethical, as it would be for an IMG without residency training.
 
US title IV funded schools oversee has clinical rotations in the United States. Many IMG have completed their rotations in the United States and have experience in the health care system. US-IMGs do 72-84 weeks which is 2 years of clinical rotations in the United States. PA and NP only do 6 months to 1 year of clinical rotations and are licensed with only taking one clinical exam while other IMGs/AMGs take 4 exams to even start residency. If it's purely based on education then everyone should have equal opportunities.

Every country except the United States has an implemented system where the first year out of medical school is a mandatory internship year that provides medical students with a GP license and then starts a residency. The mandatory year provides the country with physicians. If anything the health care system in the United States should implement a similar system. If not then a transitional year of medicine should be used as a mandatory 1-year residency or internship year which provides everyone with a chance to practice medicine.
 
Physicians should use the COVID-19 crisis to push NP out of the way... Lobby state legislatures to have IMG practice under physician supervision.
 
Imedgrad said:
US title IV funded schools oversee has clinical rotations in the United States. Many IMG have completed their rotations in the United States and have experience in the health care system. US-IMGs do 72-84 weeks which is 2 years of clinical rotations in the United States. PA and NP only do 6 months to 1 year of clinical rotations and are licensed with only taking one clinical exam while other IMGs/AMGs take 4 exams to even start residency. If it's purely based on education then everyone should have equal opportunities.

Every country except the United States has an implemented system where the first year out of medical school is a mandatory internship year that provides medical students with a GP license and then starts a residency. The mandatory year provides the country with physicians. If anything the health care system in the United States should implement a similar system. If not then a transitional year of medicine should be used as a mandatory 1-year residency or internship year which provides everyone with a chance to practice medicine.
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Your first paragraph: there's a wide array of IMGs. Are you referring to Caribbean grads when you say they do 2 years of clinical rotations in the US? If so that is totally different than those from say the UK/Canada who don't do that. You need to differentiate. Also MD and NP/PA education is totally different and that's why they have a license to practice with less clinical hours.
 
ElCapone said:
At least IMGs know how to practice medicine unlike NPs
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We are making the NP argument for them... Do people realize 20+ yrs ago most states were given IMG PA license after passing the PA exam and the TOEFLE?
 
Splenda88 said:
We are making the NP argument for them... Do people realize 20+ yrs ago most states were given IMG PA license after passing the PA exam and the TOEFLE?
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It was longer ago than that. Florida, IIRC, experimented with it then stopped it when they found out a significant number of IMGs couldn't pass the national PA certifying exam (PANCE). As mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, there's too much variability in IMG education. At a minimum, the IMGs should pass USMLE steps if they want to even have a snowball's chance in hell of this happening.
 
Oligodinero said:
It was longer ago than that. Florida, IIRC, experimented with it then stopped it when they found out a significant number of IMGs couldn't pass the national PA certifying exam (PANCE). As mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, there's too much variability in IMG education. At a minimum, the IMGs should pass USMLE steps if they want to even have a snowball's chance in hell of this happening.
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I agree with that... and they should be under physician supervision just like PAs.

I just want to push NP out of the way.
 
Imedgrad said:
Many people are unable to join or go through PA or NP simply because programs do not accept international credits or degrees. Many IMG are US citizens or have legal residence status. PA/NP school require to have shown a GRE, or a bachelor's or master's degree to join their programs. There is no reason to revert backward. There been a recent bill that passed which allows NP and PA to work unsupervised and they do not go through residency as it is. Regardless IMGs are far more qualified to works Midlevel providers and they should be given equal opportunities and not be discriminated.
Click to expand...

Let me set you straight. There has been no bill passed giving PAs independent practice. In a handful of states, an emergency executive order by the governor has allowed temporary independence during the COVID-19 pandemic, but it's temporary only and not legislated. The NPs are a different story....the nursing lobby is uber powerful in this country...stronger than the AMA and AOA combined. That is a discussion for a different thread.
 
Oligodinero said:
Let me set you straight. There has been no bill passed giving PAs independent practice. In a handful of states, an emergency executive order by the governor has allowed temporary independence during the COVID-19 pandemic, but it's temporary only and not legislated. The NPs are a different story....the nursing lobby is uber powerful in this country...stronger than the AMA and AOA combined. That is a discussion for a different thread.
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Exactly... I think using IMG as a ploy is the only way to deal with their lobbying power before it's too late as they start talking about federal funding for residency... I think many state legislatures will be open to that in the wake of the COVID-19 crisis...


Anyway, I signed the petition.

 
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Imedgrad said:
US title IV funded schools oversee has clinical rotations in the United States. Many IMG have completed their rotations in the United States and have experience in the health care system. US-IMGs do 72-84 weeks which is 2 years of clinical rotations in the United States. PA and NP only do 6 months to 1 year of clinical rotations and are licensed with only taking one clinical exam while other IMGs/AMGs take 4 exams to even start residency. If it's purely based on education then everyone should have equal opportunities.

Every country except the United States has an implemented system where the first year out of medical school is a mandatory internship year that provides medical students with a GP license and then starts a residency. The mandatory year provides the country with physicians. If anything the health care system in the United States should implement a similar system. If not then a transitional year of medicine should be used as a mandatory 1-year residency or internship year which provides everyone with a chance to practice medicine.
Click to expand...


I can't speak for NPs, but there's not a PA program I'm aware of that allows anything short of 12 months of clinical rotations. The program I graduated from required 18 months. Please don't spread false information.
-and for full disclosure, I'm not just a PA, I'm a 2nd year med student.
 
Wordead said:
Depends where they graduated from. That's the problem there's such variation in medical training throughout the world.
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That's a good point - but I'd argue that it's the same for NP programs. There are a plethora of online NP programs of dubious quality that are rapidly mitosing

Splenda88 said:
If they can pass Step 1/2(ck/cs)/3, they should be ok to practice under supervision...
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I agree completely with you here
 
Regardless of its 18 months, PA does not do the exact same number of clinical rotations and are not required to do a residency. In order for your degree to be valid in the states, you need to have a certain number of 72 to 84 weeks clinical and only one board exam. In comparison to MD USMLE exams Step1, CK, CS, and Step3 just to enter into residency programs. Not everyone is that fortunate to get residency spots since DO students are eligible for applying at MD residency programs. Secondly, we are emphasizing people who have IMG with ECFMG certification which includes their boards. The IMG community has their boards completed that are sitting at home. Most people have graduated from the Caribbean and US-funded schools that are outside of the country.

The legislation will require a series of board exams and recommend finishing a prelim/intern year in the US in order for all IMG graduates to have a chance to work in their field. Every country has an intern year, including Puerto Rico. Canada and the States do not implement the same prelim/intern year. It will make a significant difference in health care if that system is implemented here. Therefore, everyone with a valid degree should have equal opportunities to serve the country to decrease physician shortage.
 
Mass Effect said:
No, absolutely not. We should not give ANY credence to Caribbean schools. Allowing medical doctors to not do residency and just become GPs will de-value the medical degree and further blur the lines between MDs and NPs. This is a bad move.
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Many countries have that... Even a US territory (PR) as the poster said already has that and the medical degree has not been "de-valued" (whatever that means).
 
Every US-based IMG with valid degrees from an accredited program should have equal opportunities to obtain a license. No one is saying to hand a license to IMGs without exams. IMG should pass valid exams. However, a required prelim/intern year in the US can act as a training year for everyone with an accredited degree from a valid program. There is a system in place with ECFMG that extensively evaluate your program, rotations, and your university curriculum to be considered to be within the guidelines of AMA and AMC to be eligible to work in the United States. Residency year such as a transitional year is a one-year residency that can be used to train IMGs to provide IMG with a midlevel GP license and everyone can be trained who have gotten an education oversees. Regardless of the end of the day, I believe everyone should be treated fairly and equally.
 
No, I will not sign this petition. The following quotes from the petition should make my reasons clear:

"United States International Medical Graduates (IMG) are critical members of healthcare in fighting the Coronavirus pandemic."
(Comes off as capitalizing on a pandemic)

" It is time to establish a new healthcare system giving privileges to US-based international graduates with legal residence status to practice medicine"
(Already exists. It is called residency. What you are asking for is a system to allow people with an MD but no postgraduate training to practice medicine)

"However, IMGs are required complete 6-8 years of medical school education and required to take 4 exams (Step1, CK, Cs and Step 3) in order to start residency"
(False. Several members of my incoming class are IMG and have not taken step 3)

"While midlevel providers are not required to complete residency training to obtain an unrestricted license."
(Not a sentence and not true. Midlevels as a cohort are not granted an unrestricted license. Some can practice independently, but it is not true to say that midlevels, as a group, can do so)

"USMLE Step 1 and Step 2CK are roughly $965, Step 2CS is $1200, Step 3 is $895. The cost of preparation for each examination varies between $2,500-$10,000."
(No, it isn't. Those are absurd estimates of the cost to prep for a step exam.)

"This is a call to provide an unrestricted license for them to practice medicine."
(Not a chance in hell. I wouldn't want any medical school graduate to get that without postgraduate training. Allowing that would be disastrous for patients and would severely devalue medical training.)

"We call for the creation of a new primary care field in which IMGs have the opportunity to practice as General Practitioners despite the USMLE examinations."
(Sounds like you are asking to be fully licensed without passing the step exams)

"Permit IMGs to practice as a house physician/general physician and implement a nationwide license specifically designated to this field"
(Again, IMGs are allowed to work as physicians. You are talking about people who have not completed residency training. That is a group that includes some IMGs, but is not specific to IMGs)

"Allow the opportunity for IMGs to write one of following board examinations “The International Foundations of Medicine” (IFMO) regulated by the National Board of Medical Examiners (NBME) of the United States of American AND/OR the required USMLE step 1 or 2 examinations OR with ECFMG certification to obtain the HP/GP license."
(No, passing step 1 is not sufficient to say someone is qualified to be a physician)

"Restrict ACGME residency training programs in their ability to discriminate IMGs on number of attempts of USMLE examinations, or graduations years, allowing equal opportunities to all applicants of the match program."
(Again, not specific to IMG and not sensible. You are petitioning to remove all objective measures from residency applications. That is crazy)
 
Lol no.
Why should an IMG who failed to match get to fast track it and not have to slave away at a residency program like everyone else?

I am strictly talking US-IMGs. Id be more lenient with the idea of practicing physicians in other countries.
 
V5RED said:
No, I will not sign this petition. The following quotes from the petition should make my reasons clear:

"United States International Medical Graduates (IMG) are critical members of healthcare in fighting the Coronavirus pandemic."
(Comes off as capitalizing on a pandemic)

" It is time to establish a new healthcare system giving privileges to US-based international graduates with legal residence status to practice medicine"
(Already exists. It is called residency. What you are asking for is a system to allow people with an MD but no postgraduate training to practice medicine)

"However, IMGs are required complete 6-8 years of medical school education and required to take 4 exams (Step1, CK, Cs and Step 3) in order to start residency"
(False. Several members of my incoming class are IMG and have not taken step 3)

"While midlevel providers are not required to complete residency training to obtain an unrestricted license."
(Not a sentence and not true. Midlevels as a cohort are not granted an unrestricted license. Some can practice independently, but it is not true to say that midlevels, as a group, can do so)

"USMLE Step 1 and Step 2CK are roughly $965, Step 2CS is $1200, Step 3 is $895. The cost of preparation for each examination varies between $2,500-$10,000."
(No, it isn't. Those are absurd estimates of the cost to prep for a step exam.)

"This is a call to provide an unrestricted license for them to practice medicine."
(Not a chance in hell. I wouldn't want any medical school graduate to get that without postgraduate training. Allowing that would be disastrous for patients and would severely devalue medical training.)

"We call for the creation of a new primary care field in which IMGs have the opportunity to practice as General Practitioners despite the USMLE examinations."
(Sounds like you are asking to be fully licensed without passing the step exams)

"Permit IMGs to practice as a house physician/general physician and implement a nationwide license specifically designated to this field"
(Again, IMGs are allowed to work as physicians. You are talking about people who have not completed residency training. That is a group that includes some IMGs, but is not specific to IMGs)

"Allow the opportunity for IMGs to write one of following board examinations “The International Foundations of Medicine” (IFMO) regulated by the National Board of Medical Examiners (NBME) of the United States of American AND/OR the required USMLE step 1 or 2 examinations OR with ECFMG certification to obtain the HP/GP license."
(No, passing step 1 is not sufficient to say someone is qualified to be a physician)

"Restrict ACGME residency training programs in their ability to discriminate IMGs on number of attempts of USMLE examinations, or graduations years, allowing equal opportunities to all applicants of the match program."
(Again, not specific to IMG and not sensible. You are petitioning to remove all objective measures from residency applications. That is crazy)
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Lol exactly. ALL of us are subject to “discrimination” based on board attempts. Don’t fail your boards, it is honestly that simple.
 
Splenda88 said:
Many countries have that... Even a US territory (PR) as the poster said already has that and the medical degree has not been "de-valued" (whatever that means).
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Putting aside PR, do those other countries also allow NPs to practice without supervision as well?

IMGs have a choice, just like the rest of us. They chose a path to the MD degree that has less chance for matching and a path in which they can't get an unrestricted license without more than one year of GME. They're choice. We shouldn't amend what it takes to be a licensed autonomous MD just because of their choice.
 
Initially was all about signing just to hurt NPs. But on second thought, this really seems to have the potential to take the worst doctors and let them practice with incomplete training. If that’s not more fuel for the NP lobby fires I don’t know what is.
 
Imedgrad said:
Attention to Medical Community & All IMG to have their voice heard. This petition "Privileges For International Medical Graduates Act" is requesting an equal opportunity for all IMG to practice as GP or Midlevel providers. If PA, NP, and ANP can practice medicine with an unrestricted license we IMG should be treated equally since our struggle is enduring. Many IMG are working day to day jobs, in the struggle to pay student loans or unable to pay overcharged USMLE examinations fees, and reapplying for match year after year. Please let your voice heard, share your struggle and stories. Please sign the petition in support of International Medical Graduates.


We are trying to make a difference. We need your support. Please sign the petition.




chng.it

Sign the Petition

Privileges For International Medical Graduates Act
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Click to expand...
This is a bad idea
 
Newyear said:
If you wanted to practice as a midlevel why didn't you just go to NP/PA school. And there is no way I would support a bill allowing an intern to practice unsupervised with the credentials of a general practitioner.
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Missouri already allows this. A med student who has passed all board exams but did not match or enter residency training can practice as an Assistant Physcian under remote supervision by an attending in primary care.
 
Excelvan said:
So you can open the floodgates for third worlders to come here and price all of us out? How about no.
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^agreed.

I hate to sound like a nationalist, but we, as a country, have absolutely NO OBLIGATION to train or employ IMGs. I feel bad for the folks who are US-grads who have to SOAP each year and feel that they shouldn't have to compete with IMGs for residency spots at all. Let the US-grads match and then the US-IMGs can have the leftovers. Anything after that can go to QUALIFIED nonUS-IMGs. But to let IMGs who don't match or haven't passed all the boards US-grads have to take get to practice and displace our workforce is ridiculous and unreasonable. There are plenty of other countries that heavily limit foreign-trained physicians from coming to their countries and practicing medicine.
 
This is basically an attempt to turn medicine into IT. We already have enough to deal with from hospital administrators, private equity, and contract management groups to want to add Infosys and Tata into the clownshow. As someone who worked in the IT industry after college and went into medicine partly because I didn't want to become unemployable by 40, just seeing this thread here makes me nauseous.

It's not even pure supply and demand, these people take over departments and then refuse to hire anyone but their own. It's notorious in the IT industry and I doubt it would be any different in medicine. Say no to your own demise.
 
Angus Avagadro said:
Missouri already allows this. A med student who has passed all board exams but did not match or enter residency training can practice as an Assistant Physcian under remote supervision by an attending in primary care.
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This petition is asking for no supervision, which is ridiculous with a capital R.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't there been innumerable amounts of information available - through SDN and many other resources - that warns premed students considering IMG route that there's a high probability they will end up in a situation like OP (i.e. not matching)?
 
WrenchesToMD said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't there been innumerable amounts of information available - through SDN and many other resources - that warns premed students considering IMG route that there's a high probability they will end up in a situation like OP (i.e. not matching)?
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There is no indication this guy is even a US IMG, for all we know he's just some doctor in a foreign country who wants to practice here because of the $$.
 
What about IMGs who have lived here for 20+ years? My parents are both IMGs who went to school in Pakistan, both have taken their steps, passed and applied for residency. They immigrated here legally, and are currently American citizens. My mother was able to match and go through residency and now is a critical care attending. My father despite passing all exams and applying for residency 3 times never matched. Since 2005 he’s been working essentially as an advanced practitioner, under the supervision of another physician. He chose not to go to NP/PA school because he had 3 young children at home, and instead just had been working as an AP for minimal pay for almost 15 years. My father is a physician, has the experience and the ability to care for patients especially when our community needs it most. He feels the need of our community and wants to help, more than he is right now (a glorified scribe essentially), but can’t do anything. This might seem like an isolated case, but in reality this is the story for thousands of IMGs from 3rd world countries who immigrated. I understand we don’t want to outsource and that we are under no obligation to help IMGs when we have plenty of US grads who remain unmatched. But then we can’t complain about the shortage of physicians either, when between US grads and foreign IMGs we have the manpower to supply our systems, we just choose not too. (Don’t give it to Caribbean grads tho I agree with that).
 
krustykrabkrew said:
What about IMGs who have lived here for 20+ years? My parents are both IMGs who went to school in Pakistan, both have taken their steps, passed and applied for residency. They immigrated here legally, and are currently American citizens. My mother was able to match and go through residency and now is a critical care attending. My father despite passing all exams and applying for residency 3 times never matched. Since 2005 he’s been working essentially as an advanced practitioner, under the supervision of another physician. He chose not to go to NP/PA school because he had 3 young children at home, and instead just had been working as an AP for minimal pay for almost 15 years. My father is a physician, has the experience and the ability to care for patients especially when our community needs it most. He feels the need of our community and wants to help, more than he is right now (a glorified scribe essentially), but can’t do anything. This might seem like an isolated case, but in reality this is the story for thousands of IMGs from 3rd world countries who immigrated. I understand we don’t want to outsource and that we are under no obligation to help IMGs when we have plenty of US grads who remain unmatched. But then we can’t complain about the shortage of physicians either, when between US grads and foreign IMGs we have the manpower to supply our systems, we just choose not too. (Don’t give it to Caribbean grads tho I agree with that).
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Why not give it to Caribbean grads? Esp since many have a lot of experience in the American medical system.
 
krustykrabkrew said:
What about IMGs who have lived here for 20+ years? My parents are both IMGs who went to school in Pakistan, both have taken their steps, passed and applied for residency. They immigrated here legally, and are currently American citizens. My mother was able to match and go through residency and now is a critical care attending. My father despite passing all exams and applying for residency 3 times never matched. Since 2005 he’s been working essentially as an advanced practitioner, under the supervision of another physician. He chose not to go to NP/PA school because he had 3 young children at home, and instead just had been working as an AP for minimal pay for almost 15 years. My father is a physician, has the experience and the ability to care for patients especially when our community needs it most. He feels the need of our community and wants to help, more than he is right now (a glorified scribe essentially), but can’t do anything. This might seem like an isolated case, but in reality this is the story for thousands of IMGs from 3rd world countries who immigrated. I understand we don’t want to outsource and that we are under no obligation to help IMGs when we have plenty of US grads who remain unmatched. But then we can’t complain about the shortage of physicians either, when between US grads and foreign IMGs we have the manpower to supply our systems, we just choose not too. (Don’t give it to Caribbean grads tho I agree with that).
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Brah, get that strawman out of here. None of us is complaining about the fictional doctor shortage, any more than software developers are complaining about the fictional programmer shortage. That's an utterly disingenuous argument and I think you know it, sob story notwithstanding.

The truth is allowing foreign physicians to practice here without the constraints imposed by having the residency training requirement would be utterly ruinous to our careers. It makes perfect sense for those who would benefit from this (foreign doctors, hospital CEOs, etc) to agitate in favor of it, but it also makes perfect sense for those who would be ruined by it (me and most of the people on SDN) to resist it at all cost. I'd rather listen to IMG sob stories than become a sob story myself: financially ruined by med school debt and unable to pay it back thanks to a job market flooded by foreign physicians happy to make $60k.
 
krustykrabkrew said:
What about IMGs who have lived here for 20+ years? My parents are both IMGs who went to school in Pakistan, both have taken their steps, passed and applied for residency. They immigrated here legally, and are currently American citizens. My mother was able to match and go through residency and now is a critical care attending. My father despite passing all exams and applying for residency 3 times never matched. Since 2005 he’s been working essentially as an advanced practitioner, under the supervision of another physician. He chose not to go to NP/PA school because he had 3 young children at home, and instead just had been working as an AP for minimal pay for almost 15 years. My father is a physician, has the experience and the ability to care for patients especially when our community needs it most. He feels the need of our community and wants to help, more than he is right now (a glorified scribe essentially), but can’t do anything. This might seem like an isolated case, but in reality this is the story for thousands of IMGs from 3rd world countries who immigrated. I understand we don’t want to outsource and that we are under no obligation to help IMGs when we have plenty of US grads who remain unmatched. But then we can’t complain about the shortage of physicians either, when between US grads and foreign IMGs we have the manpower to supply our systems, we just choose not too. (Don’t give it to Caribbean grads tho I agree with that).
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Hey I never said IMGs shouldn't be allowed to match. I just said US grads should have priority and preference, then US citizen IMGs, then anything left should go to foreign IMGs. I'd think that if both your folks are US citizens, then they should be considered US IMGs and be considered for match before non-US IMGs.
 
Ho0v-man said:
Initially was all about signing just to hurt NPs. But on second thought, this really seems to have the potential to take the worst doctors and let them practice with incomplete training. If that’s not more fuel for the NP lobby fires I don’t know what is.
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Yeah - sorry if I didn't make that clearer beforehand.

I don't support this proposal, but instead would one that allows for them to practice as NPs or PAs w/ physician supervision
 
krustykrabkrew said:
What about IMGs who have lived here for 20+ years? My parents are both IMGs who went to school in Pakistan, both have taken their steps, passed and applied for residency. They immigrated here legally, and are currently American citizens. My mother was able to match and go through residency and now is a critical care attending. My father despite passing all exams and applying for residency 3 times never matched. Since 2005 he’s been working essentially as an advanced practitioner, under the supervision of another physician. He chose not to go to NP/PA school because he had 3 young children at home, and instead just had been working as an AP for minimal pay for almost 15 years. My father is a physician, has the experience and the ability to care for patients especially when our community needs it most. He feels the need of our community and wants to help, more than he is right now (a glorified scribe essentially), but can’t do anything. This might seem like an isolated case, but in reality this is the story for thousands of IMGs from 3rd world countries who immigrated. I understand we don’t want to outsource and that we are under no obligation to help IMGs when we have plenty of US grads who remain unmatched. But then we can’t complain about the shortage of physicians either, when between US grads and foreign IMGs we have the manpower to supply our systems, we just choose not too. (Don’t give it to Caribbean grads tho I agree with that).
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Your mother was able to secure an attending physician position, but your father needed to take on a role you said paid almost nothing to support you? Given neither had the crushing debt an American medical degree confers, that is surprising. You said he passed, but there is a difference between passing and scores that would be competitive for a residency. If he is 15 years out of practice (and only worked as "a glorified scribe since then)and from a school we have no idea as to the quality of, it is hard to say he could competently practice medicine today in the US.

No, we should not change the whole system so that people who did not go through the expensive and well vetted medical school system in the US can jump in.
 
Why would we even need more NPs/PAs? There are already way too much graduating every year. I also don’t see why we should import a ton of foreign healthcare providers when these jobs can go to Americans who would otherwise be under/unemployed. The IMGs who are recruited should be the best of the best, which is what the system filters for now.
 
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