PGY2 looking at Path

[deleted721365]

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[KeratinPearls]

I would say being terminated from residency is a big red flag. Sorry to hear about your toxic training program.

It’ll be hard but there are dysfunctional ahole attending pathologists and residents who got into Pathology. If they got in you can stand a chance if youre a NORMAL person. I guess you can apply and see what you get.

I knew of a resident who didn’t talk to anyone in residency. Severely dysfunctional. No longer a resident.

I knew of a resident who matched and suddenly disappeared after a week of residency.

You really need to get a lot of path experience (AP surgpath rotations) under your belt. Research won’t help. You really can’t do anything from now until September that will help you unless you can fit in a good AP surgpath rotation.

You’ve got to find a way to sit at signout with pathologists (learn basic surgpath) and learn how to gross specimens. Anything that will make you an asset to a residency program.

Your chances of matching are slim unless you get a good path rotation with good letters of recommendation from pathologists. Well known pathologists would carry more weight but if you can’t get that then you got to do with whatever you can get.

The chips are stacked against you but I’ve seen some strange and crazy people get into Path.

The reason behind why you were terminated and then not allowed to begin the other residency is the core issue right now. If you have some personal issues, I would take care of that before proceeding further.

Best of luck.

 

[KeratinPearls]

Hello- thank you for your reply. I’m actually a super normal dude. Which is probably part of the problem because I get along much better with normal people (patients, nurses, ancillary staff etc).

Just to clarify. I withdrew from the first program and never even began at the second (the second one is the one that said I was terminated; however, I never even worked a minute there so unsure if that matters?).

How do you get terminated without even beginning a job lol.

Anyways, you need path experience via rotations. At least a general surgpath rotation. You will be asked at interviews why you withdrew and why you got terminated at your second position.

Make sure you truly enjoy pathology. Do rotations and work your butt off and get good letters attesting to your sincere enthusiasm for pathology, teamwork, hard work, etc.

 

[KeratinPearls]

That is my question. It’s been a weird and wild ride, man!

I will do that. However, how do I get a rotation if I’m not in a program. Didn’t even know one could do that.. interesting

Rotation, like an elective, in your medical school that you do your 4th year.

 

[Dral]

Was there a chance your second program found something out from your first program and 'rescinded' your offer?

Have you considered taking the USMLEs? Having those under your belt would help.

 

[Dral]

Well, not every program/person has a good idea of the relevance of COMLEX. It seems second nature to you but ">550" means nothing to me. You could tell me "I rocked COMLEX, I got a 45" and I'd be like "Ok, that's great." I mean no offense with that, it's just that I've been allopathic the whole way and never had to concern myself with anything related to COMLEX. That could be different for program directors and some people since they see DO apps come in, but other people who could be reviewing apps may not have as good of a grasp on it.

Passing Step 1 shows you can handle the exam and doing well on Step 2 in combination would help assure any program that you can handle standardized exams and can thus pass boards (which is a big concern of programs in any field).

I'm not saying you need to go forward with those exams, but I think it would broaden your chances. You could try to contact a few programs and see how they feel about COMLEX without USMLE.

 

[KeratinPearls]

That is my question. It’s been a weird and wild ride, man!

I will do that. However, how do I get a rotation if I’m not in a program. Didn’t even know one could do that.. interesting

I read a few of your past posts. Make sure you enjoy Pathology and that you arent going into Pathology to pay off debt or to escape primary care. It takes a certain person to look thru a microscope the rest of their life. If you don’t enjoy the practice of it, you won’t be happy especially if you are at a busy practice.

 

[Dral]

I read a few of your past posts. Make sure you enjoy Pathology and that you arent going into Pathology to pay off debt or to escape primary care. It takes a certain person to look thru a microscope the rest of their life. If you don’t enjoy the practice of it, you won’t be happy especially if you are at a busy practice.

Agree. The science and art of Pathology are relatively different than most other medical fields. You need to enjoy both. In my opinion it's hard to grasp the art of it until you are actually pushing the button on cases, but either way, do your best to truly experience the field before making your decision.

It can admittedly be tough to know before you truly do it. I'm in a clinical/path overlap field. I started more clinical and over the last few years have luckily been able to transition to almost all path.

Edit: Now that I see your last post OP, fair enough. Path is a broad enough field that you should be able to find something that you enjoy or at least like/tolerate enough that you will appreciate it and still do a good job at it.

 

[HmanPath]

Do you live near an academic medical center with a path department? You could reach out and see if you could spend some time there, or try a private local group. Depending on how you feel about forensic pathology, you could also try reaching out to your local ME office. Good luck!

 

[Zarniwoop]

I'd avoid path. Higher chance of digging an even deeper hole.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

You sound like someone destined for a utilization review job

 

[Spaziergängerin]

It sounds like you want out of medicine without becoming homeless from student debt. That is very feasible, so don't assume you have to keep being a physician. Walk away from the dumpster fire and just let it burn. Not your problem that medicine is collapsing. Run. Here's what I recommend. Take one of those coding boot camps (3 months) and then an internship at a biotech (9 months). They will love you because you speak medicalease. Then you will get a 6 figure salary offer and move on to a happier life. There are also non medical jobs for physicians leaving the field on DropoutClub (DOC - Innovative healthcare careers for doctors and scientists) if web developer doesn't appeal--butnyou will make bank. For student loans, I feel your pain- go on the income based repayment so that when your income is zero you qualify for $0 payments and they still count towards forgiveness.

 

[KeratinPearls]

It sounds like you want out of medicine without becoming homeless from student debt. That is very feasible, so don't assume you have to keep being a physician. Walk away from the dumpster fire and just let it burn. Not your problem that medicine is collapsing. Run. Here's what I recommend. Take one of those coding boot camps (3 months) and then an internship at a biotech (9 months). They will love you because you speak medicalease. Then you will get a 6 figure salary offer and move on to a happier life. There are also non medical jobs for physicians leaving the field on DropoutClub (DOC - Innovative healthcare careers for doctors and scientists) if web developer doesn't appeal--butnyou will make bank. For student loans, I feel your pain- go on the income based repayment so that when your income is zero you qualify for $0 payments and they still count towards forgiveness.

Thanks for sharing that website. There are many opportunities for MDs out there who are looking for jobs outside medicine.

Those equity research jobs look pretty cool if you like the markets.

 

[mike-sheree]

I think Spaz has an excellent idea. You seem desperate, you are certainly intelligent enough to do the above and the payoff is acceptable.

 

[gbwillner]

First, you should immediately look for work. You can work in primary care in prisons and other places with provisional/conditional licenses. Also, you should consider medical-related, non-patient oriented work. This can be working for insurance companies as claim reviews experts, or consulting with financial or industry companies as an analyst. Honestly, especially if you are burned out on medicine this may be your best option.

Re: Path, I think this is not a good idea based on a few things. First, you said up front that you though direct patient care is a better fit for you, and you have limited exposure to Path. You will have to do a lot of heavy lifting to get into path, and you may find that you don't like it or fit into it.

Second, as others have said, you are a walking red flag. You have, for whatever reason, already had problems with 2 training programs, and you better have an airtight explanation for this. If I am a program director, I probably don't even open the email from you, but if I did, I'd expect to see something akin to "the first program was hit by a meteor and I was the lone survivor, then the second program shut down due to financial reasons". If you have trouble getting along with your colleagues this reflects poorly on you, even if you don't think this is your fault. Additionally, I would question why you left your program without simply transferring to another program. If things were bad you should have made an effort to transfer to another program while you were still in good standing. "Resigning" from a program leaves all your colleagues on the hook and is not a good look. Why exactly did the second program terminate you?

Third, It is expected in Path that you complete the USMLE steps, and in your case you should do well in all three. Given the combination of issues you face, if I were a program director, unless I was VERY comfortable that you'd be a competent resident that has gotten a raw deal due to circumstances really outside your control I'd give you no consideration.

 

[Poeppel]

This last comment is a typical judgment of the conventional "health care" system. Justly or not, original poster, you are to be discarded by that system. I cannot say what you should do, but gbwillner's comment may help you know what you should NOT do. Has toiling away in desperation helped you so far? Has it brought you any happiness?

This sounds like good advice: "Walk away from the dumpster fire and just let it burn. Not your problem that medicine is collapsing. Run."

Remember the popular philosophy, It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. Good luck!

 

[Iceman24]

Agree that you should take USMLE exams to be considered for MD programs, and path in particular.

Moving further, why you even mentioned "second job" if you even never started this? I personally got a job offer withdrawn from me few days later without any explanation/reason/excuse. Guess how it affected my career?

Overall, I agree with everyone who commented, except I think you have a pretty good chance to become a path resident. People just can't imagine how low is the bar set now days, and I speak from my own experience interacting with other fellows and residents during my training.

 

[TrojanRaggy]

I like the idea of doing pathology rotations and gaining more experiences and a new set of recommendation letters. ME offices sound like a good choice because most FPs are chilled out and don't give a rat's ass about what academia thinks of you. They may help you heal.

Taking step exams will take up a lot of your time and has questionable benefits.

I am a non-US citizen IMG and I can attest to the fact that the bar is set too low for pathology. Apply broadly and you may end up in some program. You still have better prospects than 50 percent FMG applicants who fail to enter even with such a low bar.

I can't see your original post for some reason and not sure if you are looking for a PGY1 or PGY2 spots. Regardless, even with your huge red flag, the prospects for you would be similar to a visa requiring non-home country pathology trained person with **** scores. Believe it or not, even a good proportion of these people match.

However, more chances that you would end up in a low hanging toxic program again. My advice would be to follow what a ****ty FMG does, keeps their head down, does what their boss says, does their time and graduates with a fellowship at hand.

The predatory bank loan system and bad luck has unfortunately put you in a similar situation to an immigrant from a war torn ****hole but all is not lost. Good luck!

 

[Nevergiveupok]

Thanks for sharing that website. There are many opportunities for MDs out there who are looking for jobs outside medicine.

Those equity research jobs look pretty cool if you like the markets.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news as I'm familiar with these roles - equity research. These are very competitive and I've seen PharmDs get this with a few years of experience (the ones who end up going to industry/good paying gigs, not retail pharmacy). BUT I will say it's not impossible if OP decides to learn finance through paid course (plenty of self-paying ones out there that are under <$2K). It would just require a ton of networking on their end and luck too.

Agree with another poster who mentioned a bootcamp (if coding is an interest of OP) and trying to find healthcare opportunities given their vast knowledge. Making a transition outside of medicine (without a completed residency) unfortunately without another graduate degree is hard. The few I've seen do it all had to get at least a 2 year graduate degree (MS in data science, top MBA etc.). One of them is now at a Morgan Stanley/JP Morgan type of bank in biotech equity research.

 

[Ubba]

First, you should immediately look for work. You can work in primary care in prisons and other places with provisional/conditional licenses. Also, you should consider medical-related, non-patient oriented work. This can be working for insurance companies as claim reviews experts, or consulting with financial or industry companies as an analyst. Honestly, especially if you are burned out on medicine this may be your best option.

Re: Path, I think this is not a good idea based on a few things. First, you said up front that you though direct patient care is a better fit for you, and you have limited exposure to Path. You will have to do a lot of heavy lifting to get into path, and you may find that you don't like it or fit into it.

Second, as others have said, you are a walking red flag. You have, for whatever reason, already had problems with 2 training programs, and you better have an airtight explanation for this. If I am a program director, I probably don't even open the email from you, but if I did, I'd expect to see something akin to "the first program was hit by a meteor and I was the lone survivor, then the second program shut down due to financial reasons". If you have trouble getting along with your colleagues this reflects poorly on you, even if you don't think this is your fault. Additionally, I would question why you left your program without simply transferring to another program. If things were bad you should have made an effort to transfer to another program while you were still in good standing. "Resigning" from a program leaves all your colleagues on the hook and is not a good look. Why exactly did the second program terminate you?

Third, It is expected in Path that you complete the USMLE steps, and in your case you should do well in all three. Given the combination of issues you face, if I were a program director, unless I was VERY comfortable that you'd be a competent resident that has gotten a raw deal due to circumstances really outside your control I'd give you no consideration.

You sound like someone destined for a utilization review job

Guessing from replies that the OP hasn't completed a residency. So he and other people in his predicament are aware, UR positions require at the very least board certification, and generally expect at least a couple of years of post-residency attending work. I know because I looked into this as a moonlighting option.