PGY2 transfer unique situation, Verbal confirmation at a uni program need to disclose current pd

[anusha_jain55]

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Hello Friends,

I sincerely need advice, I am in PGY1 IM about to complete a year, got offer from very good uni IM program almost verbal confirmation, need to disclose this to my current PD, in small community hospital, PD is unreasonable, malignant and has no human side. In short basically everything is confirmed except I need a release letter to ECFMG to get new j1 visa. This is a life time opportunity for me to get into fellowship and everything is perfect about new program.
I don't know how to approach to this inhuman person, would appreciate your valuable advice, it might change my life.

 

[IM2GI]

Did you sign your PGY2 contract? It is after July 1, why are you "about to complete" the year? New interns should have already started.

Why do you not have your other offer in writing?

Get your other offer in writing, review the document you signed as a PGY1. Get a lawyer involved if you have to. I would not go nuclear on your current program unless the other spot was guaranteed in writing, and you had reviewed your other commitments to your current program.

You are basically screwing your current program by transferring at the beginning of the year, I don't blame them for being pissed.

 

[123tbd]

While if you can transfer into a better program, all the best, hope you realize that you are making it difficult for folks from your medical school/country when they apply to that program. There are many without positions who will be glad to have a position!

 

[anusha_jain55]

Well I don't think anyone should generalize with one resident experience to whole nation or medical school. If there are many without positions it will not be a problem to PD as long as they get the resident to do the job. My main concern is release letter for J1 visa I am not sure if he denies that then what will be next step. I am not breaking PGY1 contract, I am not continuing further for PGY2,

 

[Winged Scapula]

We're confused because you state you're about to complete your PGY-1 year, but the academic year was over June 30.

In addition, programs are required to notify you 90 days in advance that they are offering you a contract for the next PGY. You been a bit obtuse here; are you not continuing on because you weren't offered a PGY-2 contract or because you are planning on breaking that contract. Once you've finished PGY-1 you are no longer beholden to your current program unless you've signed a contract for further training.

Finally as others have noted, until you have a WRITTEN contract from the other program, you don't really have an offer. Don't make any plans until you do.

I'm not sure why your current PD would refuse you the letter if it's known you weren't staying on unless there were issues with your performance.

 

[anusha_jain55]

I started late, I did sign contract for 2nd year, there is no issue with performance or anything, it's just personal problem and uni hospital offered me position fortunately in same city. Once I get the offer what should be my step? I am going to talk to GME officer earlier next week as that person is much better than our PD, will definitely talk to PD once I get idea from her what's her suggestion or experience on this issue

 

[IM2GI]

I started late, I did sign contract for 2nd year, there is no issue with performance or anything, it's just personal problem and uni hospital offered me position fortunately in same city. Once I get the offer what should be my step? I am going to talk to GME officer earlier next week as that person is much better than our PD, will definitely talk to PD once I get idea from her what's her suggestion or experience on this issue

You signed a PGY2 contract, you cannot just break that and walk away without repercussions.

I believe your options are to:

a) Beg your PD to let you out of your contract and support your transfer. From your description, he sounds like a hardass who does not like you. Additionally you are at an apparently undesirable small community program, and they would have trouble replacing you. This seems unlikely.

b) Resign, not sure how that affects your future funding. I would guess that there are far reaching affects that I am unaware of.

c) Suck it up and complete your PGY2 year.

If this were me, I would not be making any decisions without a lawyer involved. You are an IMG and are in dangerous waters, you need the help of a professional to not ruin your career. Tread carefully, you are being far too casual about this.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Also are you using your real name as your handle?

 

[anusha_jain55]

We're confused because you state you're about to complete your PGY-1 year, but the academic year was over June 30.

In addition, programs are required to notify you 90 days in advance that they are offering you a contract for the next PGY. You been a bit obtuse here; are you not continuing on because you weren't offered a PGY-2 contract or because you are planning on breaking that contract. Once you've finished PGY-1 you are no longer beholden to your current program unless you've signed a contract for further training.

Finally as others have noted, until you have a WRITTEN contract from the other program, you don't really have an offer. Don't make any plans until you do.

I'm not sure why your current PD would refuse you the letter if it's known you weren't staying on unless there were issues with your performance.

I appreciate your response here, but what do you mean by obtuse? anyways, it's simple most of the people sign contract for PGY2 in march , and still everyone transfers to different program and there are many, and notification policy is institution specific, my institution has policy to notify 4 months before your contracts end, so here I am not sure as I am not breaking 1st years contract so it means 4 months before 2nd year contract? not sure, I think best way is to get professional help.
I think you might not be aware about j1 visa thing, everyone needs a release letter to transfer your j1 visa to different institution.

Of course not using my real name.

Why my current PD would refuse
1. He will have to find someone else which means extra work
2. He will have to reschedule somethings
3. He just don't like to make any changes for anyone
4. He just wants to ...
5. It won't look good on his or institution profile

 

[rokshana]

I appreciate your response here, but what do you mean by obtuse? anyways, it's simple most of the people sign contract for PGY2 in march , and still everyone transfers to different program and there are many, and notification policy is institution specific, my institution has policy to notify 4 months before your contracts end, so here I am not sure as I am not breaking 1st years contract so it means 4 months before 2nd year contract? not sure, I think best way is to get professional help.
I think you might not be aware about j1 visa thing, everyone needs a release letter to transfer your j1 visa to different institution.

Of course not using my real name.

Why my current PD would refuse
1. He will have to find someone else which means extra work
2. He will have to reschedule somethings
3. He just don't like to make any changes for anyone
4. He just wants to ...
5. It won't look good on his or institution profile

or basically you are screwing him so he's not going to make it easy for you….and he can do just that.

if you signed a PGY2 contract then you have to give 4 months notice per the new contract…which means if you have not given notice you yet, you will have to stay at your current program til Nov (unless the PD is nice to you and waives the 4 month notice….from your description, that is unlikely…is this new program gonna wait for you?

you are all worried about your J1 status, but are completely ignoring that you potentially could screw the rest of your medical career in the US… your existing PD could simply refuse to release you…you signed a contract and they hold your J1…even if you give your 4 month notice and resign and no longer work at your current program, there is no guarantee that the new program is going to wait, or after all the difficulties, decides not to go with you (esp if you have not signed a PGY 2 contract with the new place (and even if you did, you signed the PGY2 contract with the old program and that very well could invalidate the newer contract…you really should talk to an attorney...

 

[anusha_jain55]

or basically you are screwing him so he's not going to make it easy for you….and he can do just that.

if you signed a PGY2 contract then you have to give 4 months notice per the new contract…which means if you have not given notice you yet, you will have to stay at your current program til Nov (unless the PD is nice to you and waives the 4 month notice….from your description, that is unlikely…is this new program gonna wait for you?

you are all worried about your J1 status, but are completely ignoring that you potentially could screw the rest of your medical career in the US… your existing PD could simply refuse to release you…you signed a contract and they hold your J1…even if you give your 4 month notice and resign and no longer work at your current program, there is no guarantee that the new program is going to wait, or after all the difficulties, decides not to go with you (esp if you have not signed a PGY 2 contract with the new place (and even if you did, you signed the PGY2 contract with the old program and that very well could invalidate the newer contract…you really should talk to an attorney...

policy says '4 months before your contract end date' not 4 months before I leave, so technically I will be breaking 2nd years contract which ends next year. Let's see what happens I will find out this week. I think involving attorneys will make it more difficult at this point of time. I appreciate everyone's input and suggestions and it means a lot to me. Thanks a lot!

 

[Raryn]

policy says '4 months before your contract end date' not 4 months before I leave, so technically I will be breaking 2nd years contract which ends next year. Let's see what happens I will find out this week. I think involving attorneys will make it more difficult at this point of time. I appreciate everyone's input and suggestions and it means a lot to me. Thanks a lot!

Famous last words: "Let's see what happens"

Basically, you're risking your career by pursuing this "unique situation." It's entirely possible it will work out well, but there's a lot of different ways this can go pear-shaped. You've been warned.

 

[ROBINHO]

U don't seem to understand the 4 months notice. It means that u should tell them 4 months before you quit or end of your contract. This is to give them time to find somebody and deal with things from their end. U can't just quit now and say your contract ends next year and is "outside 4 months" (whatever interpretation you giving it. Talking to a lawyer is your best option. But please come back and give us feedback on how it went (using your own way).
And in the USA verbal commitment doesn't mean anything. Unless it is signed on a paper you don't have the position that you think you have
Sincerest good luck

 

[newtosdn]

What happened eventually? Were you able to transfer? What is this 4 months notice policy? The contract that I signed with my program does not mention it.

 

[Winged Scapula]

What happened eventually? Were you able to transfer? What is this 4 months notice policy? The contract that I signed with my program does not mention it.

Are you sure? That's a fairly standard RRC requirement.

 

[newtosdn]

Yes I am pretty sure. My contract reads something like " This is not a contract, this is a temporary appointment for a yr, which can be terminated at any time."