PGY4 anxious about job prospects in Chicago area

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AnonymousPGY4

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I am a rising PGY4 at an academic hospital-affiliated program who has been wringing my hands about starting the job search and putting it off for as long as I can. Classmates have already started interviewing but I keep dragging my feet. At least I finally made a CV...

My anxiety about the job search stem from a few things. When I was working on my CV, I realized that I had hardly accomplished anything during residency. To be honest, residency by itself was already pretty grueling so I did not have the mental bandwidth to take on extra research, curriculum improvement or QI projects. I was going to moonlight at a local hospital but got COVID and long haul symptoms and didn't feel well enough to do shifts on top of what was required of my by my program (which was a lot during COVID as we converted to telemedicine and visit volumes increased). I don't know if the lack of resume-enhancing activities has much bearing on my job search.

The other source of my anxiety about jobs is imposter syndrome. It got especially bad this year during COVID, partly due to hardly any in-person interactions and feeling like attendings couldn't really observe/evaluate me properly. I can't shake the fear that I won't be able to find a good job (non-academic inpatient, reasonable workload, 250-300k base) in the city and will end up having to drag my SO to some small town in Wyoming because nobody's going to want to hire me. I know it sounds irrational and self-defeating so it'd be great to reality check with the more experienced people on this board. How is the job market in Chicago (and other major cities) for a middle-of-the-road fresh graduate? Will I still be able to land the job that I want or should I prepare to make compromises (location, pay, etc.)?

Lastly, if there's any resources that you found helpful for navigating the job search, they're much appreciated! Thank you for taking the time to read this.
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I don't know the Chicago market, but in general the job market for psychiatrists right now is excellent. A "middle of the road" resident graduating from a respectable but not prestigious program should have no difficulty finding a job like the one you describe.

Go to some job fairs (especially once they resume in person), I suspect that will boost your morale!
 
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Inpatient!!! So nice to hear somebody seeking it out. Here's the deal, inpatient jobs are less common, but also less popular. I'll second everyone else's opinions above, most jobs are NOT picky. There is a severe shortage of all mental health providers, MDs, NPs, PAs, psychologists, MFTs social workers, any of it. It looks like Chicago might be a bit more saturated than some VERY rural markets, but it's still like dropping a bucket of water in the Sahara. Check out usajobs.gov. It's not amazing for Chicago in specific, I'll admit I was surprised, but there are some inpatient telehealth positions available elsewhere that would not require you dragging your spouse anywhere.
 
Thanks for the encouraging responses! There is an upcoming job fair so I will try to attend that. What does the timeline look like for the post-residency job search? When should I start applying/interviewing, negotiate, and sign the final contract? I asked some other residents about this and have gotten wildly different responses (starting >1 year out from graduation to starting in Fall/Spring).
 
AnonymousPGY4 said:
Thanks for the encouraging responses! There is an upcoming job fair so I will try to attend that. What does the timeline look like for the post-residency job search? When should I start applying/interviewing, negotiate, and sign the final contract? I asked some other residents about this and have gotten wildly different responses (starting >1 year out from graduation to starting in Fall/Spring).
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Fall is fine, you’re definitely not behind right now. People can definitely get jobs even if they wait to start looking in the early spring but you don’t want to wait until then cause you’ll have pressure to just take the first thing you find. Just make it very clear to people you’re a graduating resident that can’t start until July 2022 (so you can’t start next week or anything) but otherwise places will be very happy to talk to you. Credentialljng and background checks and all that crap takes time too, so you don’t want to be waiting until June to decide on a job if you want to start July/August 2022.
 
MacDonaldTriad said:
If you have a pulse, it might take up to 20 minutes to find an inpatient job. If you don't have a pulse, it will take a little longer.
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Thanks for the chuckle! Do you think this is the case for major cities like Chicago? I've looked on some job board sites (Indeed, etc.) and couldn't find even one inpatient listing in the city proper... maybe more will pop up over the next few months?
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It has been historically difficult to fill inpatient psychiatry positions. Job boards can be where the least desirous job offers end up. I recommend you work the other direction. Look for where the inpatient beds are in the area you are interested in. If there is an ER, or better yet, a psych ER, a quick conversation with the case worker could quickly tell you which places take their patients. Look these places up, reach out to the medical director of those places. If they are hungry for psychiatrists, they will call you back. They are not the person in charge of hiring maybe, but alerting them that someone is willing to fill their needs will often grease the process.
 
You'll be fine. I hear about jobs in and near (within 1-1.5 hrs of) Chicago all the time. Inpatient mostly, but close to 50/50.

Good on you for finishing your CV, I delayed so long making mine then finally hammered it out one weekend along with my license application for the state I plan to end up in.

You're fine timewise. Most people get serious in the fall of last year anyway. You can sign up on a bunch of those recruiting websites (PracticeLink, DocCafe, LinkedIn, etc) if you want to get bombarded with recruiters. Not a huge fan of their communication/tactics though. Lately, I've been looking into the medical centers/clinics in the region I'm looking at, looking at their direct career postings, and cold emailing the person asking about other opportunities for next year.
 
Chicago is definitely not an oversaturated market and you still have plenty of time. Lots of folks I know were not even serious about the search until about 6 months before graduation, I started a year prior like you are doing and felt that pacing made more sense. Your best bet is to talk to colleagues, attendings at your program, people you've meet at conferences etc to find the best jobs. If that fails, there is absolutely nothing wrong with just taking a random job, making sure the contract is reasonable to let you leave after a year or two without non-compete or financial penalties and gain the experience of what you really want in a job.
 
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AnonymousPGY4 said:
I am a rising PGY4 at a less well-regarded (but still academic hospital affiliated) program who has been wringing my hands about starting the job search and putting it off for as long as I can. Classmates have already started interviewing but I keep dragging my feet. At least I finally made a CV...

My anxiety about the job search stem from a few things. When I was working on my CV, I realized that I had hardly accomplished anything during residency. To be honest, residency by itself was already pretty grueling so I did not have the mental bandwidth to take on extra research, curriculum improvement or QI projects. I was going to moonlight at a local hospital but got COVID and long haul symptoms and didn't feel well enough to do shifts on top of what was required of my by my program (which was a lot during COVID as we converted to telemedicine and visit volumes increased). I don't know if the lack of resume-enhancing activities has much bearing on my job search.

The other source of my anxiety about jobs is imposter syndrome and poor self esteem. (Before you ask, I am in therapy for this and it is something my therapist and I are exploring). It got especially bad this year because I had lingering cognitive symptoms from COVID and was self-conscious that my attendings or other faculty would notice that I was 'off.' Fortunately, my performance/evaluations have been positive and there haven't been concerns about this. Still, I can't shake the fear that I won't be able to find a good job (non-academic inpatient, reasonable workload, 250-300k base) in the city and will end up having to drag my SO to some small town in Wyoming because nobody's going to want to hire me. I know it sounds irrational and self-defeating so it'd be great to reality check with the more experienced people on this board. How is the job market in Chicago (and other major cities) for a middle-of-the-road fresh graduate who didn't excel in residency? Will I still be able to land the job that I want or should I prepare to make compromises (location, pay, etc.)?

Lastly, if there's any resources that you found helpful for navigating the job search, they're much appreciated! Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Click to expand...
How you did in residency ( provided you graduated with no major red flags and can sit for the boards ) has very little to do with your job prospects ( this includes where you did your residency ) . If you have a pulse and can be licensed , you will have a job . This seems mildly implausible to someone who's used to the " Do well in high school -> college -> medical school -> residency " pathway but that is how it is . A pretty niche academic job might care about your QI projects/research or where you trained but for the vast majority , it doesn't matter .
And here is something else that might surprise you , you don't even have to be " particularly good " at your job . Just be average and work a little on getting along with people and don't do anything especially bad and you will be fine .
 
The Chicago market like a lot of big urban markets tends to pay more if you want to commute out to the suburbs, but inpatient gigs are out there in the city too. I was looking last winter and saw a number of postings before my current job moved some stuff around for me.

If you have interest to do outpatient, places here are desperate for clinicians.
 
hallowmann said:
You'll be fine. I hear about jobs in and near (within 1-1.5 hrs of) Chicago all the time. Inpatient mostly, but close to 50/50.

Good on you for finishing your CV, I delayed so long making mine then finally hammered it out one weekend along with my license application for the state I plan to end up in.

You're fine timewise. Most people get serious in the fall of last year anyway. You can sign up on a bunch of those recruiting websites (PracticeLink, DocCafe, LinkedIn, etc) if you want to get bombarded with recruiters. Not a huge fan of their communication/tactics though. Lately, I've been looking into the medical centers/clinics in the region I'm looking at, looking at their direct career postings, and cold emailing the person asking about other opportunities for next year.
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Phew, it is such a relief to hear that I am not behind timeline-wise in the process. I went to a party this past weekend where I spoke to an inpatient psychiatrist who gave me a run-down of how hiring works (that like MacDonaldTriad said, you should cold call or email medical directors or CEOs instead of looking at online job postings). One of my attendings also cautioned me to not use a recruiter for the job search because 1. it's not necessary and 2. it could come out of your salary or hamper your ability to negotiate. Thanks for your advice!
 
ednorton said:
How you did in residency ( provided you graduated with no major red flags and can sit for the boards ) has very little to do with your job prospects ( this includes where you did your residency ) . If you have a pulse and can be licensed , you will have a job . This seems mildly implausible to someone who's used to the " Do well in high school -> college -> medical school -> residency " pathway but that is how it is . A pretty niche academic job might care about your QI projects/research or where you trained but for the vast majority , it doesn't matter .
And here is something else that might surprise you , you don't even have to be " particularly good " at your job . Just be average and work a little on getting along with people and don't do anything especially bad and you will be fine .
Click to expand...
It is a little foreign that it's so easy to get hired after years of competing for limited spots in medical school and residency. But I will try to trust this. My mentor also said that only academic places will be choosy about research or QI experience.

Do you happen to know anything about the interview process? Do places grill you or is it mostly them trying to sell the position to you? Should I invest in interview prep (I read that Physician Thrive offers this service for a fee)?
 
AnonymousPGY4 said:
It is a little foreign that it's so easy to get hired after years of competing for limited spots in medical school and residency. But I will try to trust this. My mentor also said that only academic places will be choosy about research or QI experience.

Do you happen to know anything about the interview process? Do places grill you or is it mostly them trying to sell the position to you? Should I invest in interview prep (I read that Physician Thrive offers this service for a fee)?
Click to expand...

You should prep for interviews in that YOU want to find out everything you can about the organization and position you're interviewing for. I would make a list of questions that you want to ask in every interview to find out more about the place you're interviewing.

Most places would be very happy to have a psychiatrist of any sort working there. In my experience, basically nobody was trying to grill you in an interview...they're usually genuinely interested in what you want to do, how you want to work, where you want to work, why you want to work there. Just basically making sure you'd be a decent fit, nobody wants to hire an a**hole either or someone who's gonna move in a year if it's not a locums position. There are way more open positions than psychiatrists right now nationally and people know that. Which is why recruiters will bug you for a year once you give them any info at all.
 
Most of my grads are taking a couple of months as well.
They call it "board review", but I suspect most are just taking a well-deserved breather.
😉

Your biggest barrier is that Imposter Syndrome. Been there, done that, did a fellowship to cure it.
im smart enough stuart smalley GIF by Saturday Night Live
 
Imo biggest reason to start hunting early for Chicago jobs is that IL’s bureaucracy is awful and I’ve heard horror stories about getting licensed (6+ months). Chicago metro area shouldn’t be a problem in terms of finding a position, especially if you’re willing to live in the suburbs, many of which are very nice. This is from someone who grew up in Chicago metro, had medical internships there, and still has family in healthcare in several suburbs there.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
You should prep for interviews in that YOU want to find out everything you can about the organization and position you're interviewing for. I would make a list of questions that you want to ask in every interview to find out more about the place you're interviewing.

Most places would be very happy to have a psychiatrist of any sort working there. In my experience, basically nobody was trying to grill you in an interview...they're usually genuinely interested in what you want to do, how you want to work, where you want to work, why you want to work there. Just basically making sure you'd be a decent fit, nobody wants to hire an a**hole either or someone who's gonna move in a year if it's not a locums position. There are way more open positions than psychiatrists right now nationally and people know that. Which is why recruiters will bug you for a year once you give them any info at all.
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How do I go about finding a recruiter? Currently looking for moonlighting positions.
 
When I interview applicants it feels like I'm always trying to sell our job to them because they have so many options. I agree with above posters, if you want inpatient just find all the inpatient units in the area you want to live, and cold call the medical directors (or typically call the psych unit and leave a message for the director saying you are interested in possible jobs).
 
what are your thoughts about hiring an attorney to read over the contract? Is this common or an opinion held by a few?
 
thank you. How does one usually go about finding an attorney to review a contract? How much does this typically cost?
 
rdk322 said:
thank you. How does one usually go about finding an attorney to review a contract? How much does this typically cost?
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Very easy you can just google it someone near you who is familiar with physician contracts there are lawyers who specifically do this, I’m not exactly sure about price but probably a few hundred bucks which is well worth it
 
robellis said:
Very easy you can just google it someone near you who is familiar with physician contracts there are lawyers who specifically do this, I’m not exactly sure about price but probably a few hundred bucks which is well worth it
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The lowest I've seen for this is $500 for a contract review and that was through a connection. Probably closer to $1000 for a healthcare lawyer you're just randomly contacting about this. Usually it's a flat rate for contract review though and not billable hours.

100% agree that no matter what it's well worth it though. A healthcare lawyer will find stuff and add stuff in your contract you wouldn't have even thought of adding/modifying. I'd think of it like insurance...a little now can pay off a lot later if you need it.
 
rdk322 said:
thank you. How does one usually go about finding an attorney to review a contract? How much does this typically cost?
Click to expand...
If you're new to all this, a site like contract diagnostic might be helpful for you. They are not lawyers so if there were legal concerns that would be an extra charge but I think most new grads would do well to use them for their first go around.
 
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