Pharm. D distinctions

[storyhill2]

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Hi, I'm going to be starting my P1 at University of Appalachia and I've had this nagging question that I do not see addressed in any of the threads I've searched.
I know the army has a higher beginning rank for a Pharm D than a B.S. pharmacist. I also have heard some stories of BS pharmacists that work in hospitals being forced to do less clinical work because a Pharm D was placed in their more clinical job.
The question I have is if some restrictions in advancement are placed on B.S. now compared to Pharm. D., will there be a distinction between Pharm D.'s with no bachelors degree and Pharm D's with a bachelors degree? Schools have told me they see a bachelor degree being required within the next 5-10 years. Do you think there will be restrictions in areas of practice when a Pharm D. with no bachelors degree applies for a job and a Pharm D. with a bachelors applies?
I am trying to look in the future and I do have 113 credits right now and would have a bachelors if I put off pharmacy school for a year(probably too late to do now, but the question still stands).

 

[kwizard]

The question I have is if some restrictions in advancement are placed on B.S. now compared to Pharm. D., will there be a distinction between Pharm D.'s with no bachelors degree and Pharm D's with a bachelors degree? Schools have told me they see a bachelor degree being required within the next 5-10 years. Do you think there will be restrictions in areas of practice when a Pharm D. with no bachelors degree applies for a job and a Pharm D. with a bachelors applies?

It is the terminal degree (i.e. the Pharm.D.) that matters. Whether you have a Pharm.D. vs PharmD/BS won't be relevant as long as you have the pharmD. The requirement for a bachelors prior to getting into pharmacy school will just evolve over time as the pre-requisites continue to increase >/~90 credits. Basically as things become more competitive the more education will be required to get from point A-->point B (hence the evolution of the BS into the PharmD as just one of the reasons for the transition in education). However, to answer your other question, the separation will become those w/ a PharmD vs those w/ a PharmD and residency training. Basically the "pharmacy clinical ladder" will become more common (depending on how many levels) will potentially go accordingly:

Clin Pharm I: PharmD or BS w/o residency training

Clin Pharm II: PharmD w/ residency training and/or BS or PharmD w/o residency training, but may have "equivalent training" (more likely to be a little rare for BS or PharmD w/o residency training depending on who you know)

Clin Pharm II may be further separated (or called Clin Pharm III) based on yrs of residency training and/or presence board certification (i.e. just BCPS VS BCPS in addition to another specialty certification such as BCPP, BCNP, BCOP, or BCNSP).

Most of this for now really only applies to federal sector and/or hospital jobs, but as billing for med management picks up in the retail setting a similar transition may occur.

The following articles may be helpful for illustrating the potential direction pharmacy may be going in:

Draft: Long-range vision for the pharmacy work force in hospitals and health systems. Am J Health Syst Pharm 2006 63: 661-665.

American College of Clinical Pharmacy’s Vision of the Future: Postgraduate Pharmacy Residency Training as a Prerequisite for Direct Patient Care Practice. Pharmacotherapy 2006;26(5):722–733.
http://www.accp.com/position.php

 

[RxRob]

You wouldn't want to go into drug research unless you had at least a B.S. in biochemistry anyway, you'd be lost. They're not going to teach you that in Pharm school.

However, you'd want to define "advancement" anyway. Personally I don't consider a 20G pay cut to do research or teach an advancement, but that's me. If anything, having a pharmD in conjunction with a job you could get as a biochemist would BE the advancement... again at that point though you may as well practice.

 

[storyhill2]

However, you'd want to define "advancement" anyway. Personally I don't consider a 20G pay cut to do research or teach an advancement, but that's me..

You are right, a clearer definition of "advancement" is needed. What I mean is being able to procure a job that is only available to a certain class of pharmacist. For example pharmacy Job A is available to Pharmacist education type 1 but not to Pharmacist education type 2, and pharmacy Job B is available to both types of Pharmacist education types. I am not referring to pay. Clear things up?

To the first reply, that is an interesting view. I think you may be right, unless they change the terminal degree from Pharm. D to a different slight variation.

 

[sdn1977]

You are right, a clearer definition of "advancement" is needed. What I mean is being able to procure a job that is only available to a certain class of pharmacist. For example pharmacy Job A is available to Pharmacist education type 1 but not to Pharmacist education type 2, and pharmacy Job B is available to both types of Pharmacist education types. I am not referring to pay. Clear things up?

To the first reply, that is an interesting view. I think you may be right, unless they change the terminal degree from Pharm. D to a different slight variation.

I agree with Kwizard - it is your terminal degree which will allow you to obtain positions. However, I would place a greater emphasis on board certification than Kwizard does. I feel that board certification will be the standard by which employers will be able to judge residency experience. For example, we all have different PharmD experiences...but, if we all pass the same board exam (for our state) then our education can be compared to a standard.

I'd advise anyone in school now to do a residency and pass a specialty certification.

 

[kwizard]

I agree with Kwizard - it is your terminal degree which will allow you to obtain positions. However, I would place a greater emphasis on board certification than Kwizard does. I feel that board certification will be the standard by which employers will be able to judge residency experience. For example, we all have different PharmD experiences...but, if we all pass the same board exam (for our state) then our education can be compared to a standard.

I'd advise anyone in school now to do a residency and pass a specialty certification.

Agreed completely and please forgive the oversight or lack of emphasis. Board certification is indeed the best current standard to validate one's clinical experience/knowledge. Thanks for pointing that out!! 🙂

 

[pharmacology]

Hi, I'm going to be starting my P1 at University of Appalachia and I've had this nagging question that I do not see addressed in any of the threads I've searched.

Congrates on being accepted. When did you go there for an interview? There are a couple of students from UACP on the board here but haven't heard from them in a while. But I'm sure somone here might give you some insight into the program.

 

[storyhill2]

Congrates on being accepted. When did you go there for an interview? There are a couple of students from UACP on the board here but haven't heard from them in a while. But I'm sure somone here might give you some insight into the program.

Thanks for the congrats. My interview was on April 13th. I sent my application in just before the deadline and they called right when they got it and asked me to come interview. i I think people on the board that were interviewing ended up not getting in, at least I know one of them said that. That's maybe why you haven't heard from them. What current students at UACP are on the board? I know jplaster, that's it. It would be nice if someone from UACP was on this board to answer questions. I was very impressed with the vision of the school and I wanted to be a part of that. I'm glad to hear the ACPE meeting went well. It seems that you are familiar with the goings on at UACP, how are you connected?
ANY MORE COMMENTS ON PHARM D DISTINCTIONS, AND DIFFERING VIEWPOINTS??

 

[RxRob]

Whenever I've looked on Monster.com, many of the positions posted were open to both, but they would state "PharmD preferred".

I also thought there were some online or part time courses for RPh's to do the upgrade over a year or so. There's a lot of unreliable or changing info out there, i know at one point it was known that RPh's had something like a 10 year grace period to get the upgrade or they couldn't practice anymore. I'm finding out now that this is not true.