Pharm vs. Med?

[Bacchus]

You don't have to but you can. For specialities I believe you have to.

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[CScull]

I appreciate your concern but I don't know why you seem to...care so much. I mean as long as someone does their job correctly/well, does it REALLY matter if they are passionate or not?

I have a HIGH INTEREST in the field. What do I mean by that?

I mean that the field is very appealing to me but being a physician isn't something I've wanted to be my entire life. If I do get into medical school it will be a challenge.

TBH, the only reason I keep coming back here is because whenever I keep researching other careers...nothing really clicks. When I come back here to these forums and go to the hospital I feel like "This is where I want to be until I'm 70." Like I WANT to become a surgeon, and I love volunteering, and I'm smart, etc. I just don't know if I can make it all the way. Sometimes it requires more than hard work...

It matters because these jobs are extremely important. People die if
Doctors aren't careful enough or if Pharmacists mess up medications.

Also medical and pharmacy schools are very competitive. If you beat someone out for it who's really passionate about medicine it just doesn't seem right to me.

And despite what you may think about me, I do care about other people, including you. I hate to see people make decisions for the wrong reasons. I'm afraid if you choose a career for money you will regret it.

 

[CScull]

From Salary.com for Philadelphia:

Retail: 110,000
Clinical: 100,000
Nuclear: 107,000

In Philadelphia there isn't a very big difference, but there are regional effects. Retail almost always will pay the best. A lot of my friends will take the possible 10-15,000 paycut to avoid the hassles of retail. It does suck that with residency training your salary has the potential to decline.

Makes sense. Nuclear Pharmacy sounds really interesting... and what's $10,000 a year right.

 

[jvanewportnews]

Jeff, since you do want to make more money, don't see the average salary as $110,000 or whatever it is. See that salary as the base of what you're going to make out of it. Make the money work for you (INVEST some) and make more in your spare time without even working more (stocks, bonds, gambling-jk!). Some colleges have dual degree programs where u can get a PharmD-Doctor of Pharmacy and MBA-Master of Business Administration degree in 5 years after undergrad (2 mba, 3 pharmd). The MBA should help you with business stuff so u will know how to make your money grow, but just keep in mind that the salary you see can actually be lots more if you know how to spend it right

By the way, pharmacy is alot less riskier than a brain surgery career (nuero-w/e). You'll b stressin out through college tryin to get the best grades possible because anything less wouldn't cut it when competing with other people applying for that brain surgeon seat. Save $200,000 and 6 years of your life and become a pharmacist lol.

--------------------------------------
Good better best,
Never let it rest.
Until your good is your better,
And your better is your best.

 

[xnfs93hy]

Jeff, since you do want to make more money, don't see the average salary as $110,000 or whatever it is. See that salary as the base of what you're going to make out of it. Make the money work for you (INVEST some) and make more in your spare time without even working more (stocks, bonds, gambling-jk!). Some colleges have dual degree programs where u can get a PharmD-Doctor of Pharmacy and MBA-Master of Business Administration degree in 5 years after undergrad (2 mba, 3 pharmd). The MBA should help you with business stuff so u will know how to make your money grow, but just keep in mind that the salary you see can actually be lots more if you know how to spend it right

By the way, pharmacy is alot less riskier than a brain surgery career (nuero-w/e). You'll b stressin out through college tryin to get the best grades possible because anything less wouldn't cut it when competing with other people applying for that brain surgeon seat. Save $200,000 and 6 years of your life and become a pharmacist lol.

--------------------------------------
Good better best,
Never let it rest.
Until your good is your better,
And your better is your best.

Exactly.

 

[xnfs93hy]

CRNA's average about 140k a year. Highest paid nurse specialty. My cousin is either a Nurse Practitioner or a Physicians Assistant, she does pretty well. I'm trying to find jobs like these, that don't take away 20 years of my life and still pay well so that if I decide to go to medical school, I can do it AND afford it later on.

 

[jvanewportnews]

CRNA's average about 140k a year. Highest paid nurse specialty. My cousin is either a Nurse Practitioner or a Physicians Assistant, she does pretty well. I'm trying to find jobs like these, that don't take away 20 years of my life and still pay well so that if I decide to go to medical school, I can do it AND afford it later on.

I would really like to become a CRNA too. It isn't as risky as nuero-w/e, and only a few more years than a pharmacist, i think 2-4?, for a much better pay. If I'm not mistaken they can apply like 60% of sleepin stuff to the patients without the actual Anesthesist. Only thing is I wouldn't like puttin people to sleep. What if I overdosed and they didn't wake up?! Nah pharmacy it is for me lol.

----------------------------
400,000 people die from hospital mistakes each year. I won't contribute to that number.

 

[xnfs93hy]

I would really like to become a CRNA too. It isn't as risky as nuero-w/e, and only a few more years, i think 2-4?, for a much better pay. If I'm not mistaken they can apply like 60% of sleepin stuff to the patients without the actual Anesthesist. Only thing is I wouldn't like puttin people to sleep. What if I overdosed and they didn't wake up?! Nah pharmacy it is for me lol.

----------------------------
Good better best,
Never let it rest.
Until your good is your better,
And your better is your best.

I want patient interaction, even if it means just putting them to sleep. Being an Anesthetist or an Anesthesiologist is an important job. I still have time to decide.

 

[bigpharmD]

Lay up on ripping him for the money thing. We get the point. We all get the point. It is a reasonable thing to wonder about, especially at a young age. When you get older your priorities shift accordingly usually. You can spout off all the self-righteous stuff about 3rd world countries, but they are dependent on us too. While I haven't met many people in the health profession that HAVE italian sports cars, a surprising amount of resources comes from those countries. The little man gets screwed, but that is the case everywhere. Bringing Africa into the picture is all nice and fuzzy. Volunteering is of course good but as the world gets increasingly interconnected, everyone relies on the big picture of transactions.

It is good that you are a caring and responsible person but that does not make the OP uncaring. The top whatever percent talk is nice but the differences aren't THAT large. Comparing people that never graduated high school, people with associates degree, and people with undergraduate degrees in art, philosophy, psychology or elementary education with a person that went through 8 or more years of education and then maybe even MORE training is comparing apples to oranges. Trust me, I am about as close to being a euro hippy as one can come, but I still know there is no crime in liking shiny new things. We don't NEED the vast majority of the stuff we have. The computer I am typing on is not needed...but I enjoy it and won't get rid of it even though it was probably made by some vastly underpaid chinese person in a factory. Sad but true.

OP, the best way to learn about pharmacy stuff is to talk to one. Try to get a job as a pharmacy tech and learn as much as you can. It is good to start here to get a footing and we all understand that you are searching for your future career, but once you start diving deeper things will become MUCH clearer. When I look back to my high school years, my freshman year of college and even my sophomore year...I had no damn clue what I wanted. I had no real understanding. I knew what looked cool to me on the outside. I was good with computers, so I changed out of Engineering and went into Information Science. I soon learned that being good and liking it is only a minor component of a career path. Messing around with code, taking stuff apart, etc. was fun but when I delved deeper I realized there were a ton of aspects I didn't like....such as demanding and whiney clients, deadlines, ridiculous budget constraints, non-compliance, being away from home for months, and all that crap.

Not sure what health career you are going for but reading the last sentence of your post reminds me of the problems with just about every health profession...I am sure many of my MD colleagues would agree.

To the OP...as a practicing pharmacist I would recommend getting a four year degree and then decide from there where you want to go. This will give you time to look at all other health careers, shadow, and decide what is important to you. Pharmacy is a quickly changing profession. Who knows what it will be like in 4 years (same with medicine and dentistry). I did the 2 years and your in to pharmacy school (6 years total). I often wish that I would have taken more time and got an undergrad degree then made up my mind. Not that pharmacy is bad, but I had no clue what I wanted at 18 years old. Good luck.

 

[bigpharmD]

I would really like to become a CRNA too. It isn't as risky as nuero-w/e, and only a few more years than a pharmacist, i think 2-4?, for a much better pay. If I'm not mistaken they can apply like 60% of sleepin stuff to the patients without the actual Anesthesist. Only thing is I wouldn't like puttin people to sleep. What if I overdosed and they didn't wake up?! Nah pharmacy it is for me lol.

----------------------------
400,000 people die from hospital mistakes each year. I won't contribute to that number.

The problem with this is you have to work as a nurse for at least 2 years in the ICU. To each his/her own but that is not for me. Also, I dont want "assistant" in my title. I know they provide a great service but thats just me.

 

[xnfs93hy]

The problem with this is you have to work as a nurse for at least 2 years in the ICU. To each his/her own but that is not for me. Also, I dont want "assistant" in my title. I know they provide a great service but thats just me.

Yeah, that is what I don't like either. I want Jeff Green M.D. haha.

 

[CScull]

Hahaha, I'll be Dr. Scull.

How wicked is that?

 

[xnfs93hy]

Hahaha, I'll be Dr. Scull.

How wicked is that?

Dr. Green, kind of rolls off the tongue doesn't it? I'll wear a green tie to work everyday .

 

[Bacchus]

Re: Time

Most of my close friends plan on doing residencies. The 6 year program, plus their 2 year pharmacy residency, puts them at 8 years. The same amount of time as me going through medical school. Add on a 3 year residency for me and I'm only 3 years behind them. The argument of time is relative.

 

[CScull]

Dr. Green, kind of rolls off the tongue doesn't it? I'll wear a green tie to work everyday .

Haha, nice.

I might have to put off getting married though; it would ruin all my fun if I had to change my last name.

 

[CScull]

Re: Time

Most of my close friends plan on doing residencies. The 6 year program, plus their 2 year pharmacy residency, puts them at 8 years. The same amount of time as me going through medical school. Add on a 3 year residency for me and I'm only 3 years behind them. The argument of time is relative.

Would you do a residency for just Nuclear and Clinical or Retail as well?

 

[xnfs93hy]

Re: Time

Most of my close friends plan on doing residencies. The 6 year program, plus their 2 year pharmacy residency, puts them at 8 years. The same amount of time as me going through medical school. Add on a 3 year residency for me and I'm only 3 years behind them. The argument of time is relative.

That's true. Maybe I should just stick with my plan of going to medical school.

 

[jvanewportnews]

Jeff I forgot to ask you if you ever thought about becoming a dentist. $140,000 a year, more than a pharmacist and less stress, average work hours, and less LIABILITY as in your less likely to get sued lol.

Psychiatrist makes $180,000 and up-just your average mental disorder person and still a doctor.

If not a pharmacist, these two are good choices.

-------------------------
Q: Who said "La etat c'est moi" ("The state, it is I")

 

[EndangeredPasta]

The problem with this is you have to work as a nurse for at least 2 years in the ICU. To each his/her own but that is not for me. Also, I dont want "assistant" in my title. I know they provide a great service but thats just me.

Actually I think your a little confused. CNA = Certified Nursing Assistant...CRNA = Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist. Theres no "assistant" with CRNA's, they can work on there own and don't necessarily need a Anesthesiologist (MD/DO) to be watching them, especially in rural areas. They are pretty highly respected.

 

[jvanewportnews]

Doesn't the "Nurse" part signify that the person is working under a doctor or another professional, meaning that person is somewhat like an assistant?

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Doesn't the "Nurse" part signify that the person is working under a doctor or another professional, meaning that person is somewhat like an assistant?

No. The modern health care concept is that while they carry out doctor's orders, they are an independent body that answers to their own nursing boards. Hence they are not "assistants".

To the original op, new graduates make 100-120k. There are good opportunities for advancement considering that there is a shortage of DOP, Pharmacy supervisors, etc. However consider this. You are only paid what you are worth. This means that in addition to production, there are a lot of responsibilities that will come with the job that you might not know. In addition, expect to work a lot more hours, travel more, and have other skills.

If you want, you can probably pull off 60 hours bringing home about 200k. However keep in mind that the more you work, the more you get burned out. Pharmacy is extremly mentally and physically exhausting. This leads to a wider percentage of errors that might lead to fines, license suspension/revokation, and a lot of malpractice lawsuits. Also, the more you make. . . the more taxes you pay. The moment you pass 170kish, you get taxed at an increased bracket rate. Not hard if you are making 60ish plus overtime pay an hour and bonus.

 

[xnfs93hy]

No. The modern health care concept is that while they carry out doctor's orders, they are an independent body that answers to their own nursing boards. Hence they are not "assistants".

To the original op, new graduates make 100-120k. There are good opportunities for advancement considering that there is a shortage of DOP, Pharmacy supervisors, etc. However consider this. You are only paid what you are worth. This means that in addition to production, there are a lot of responsibilities that will come with the job that you might not know. In addition, expect to work a lot more hours, travel more, and have other skills.

If you want, you can probably pull off 60 hours bringing home about 200k. However keep in mind that the more you work, the more you get burned out. Pharmacy is extremly mentally and physically exhausting. This leads to a wider percentage of errors that might lead to fines, license suspension/revokation, and a lot of malpractice lawsuits. Also, the more you make. . . the more taxes you pay. The moment you pass 170kish, you get taxed at an increased bracket rate. Not hard if you are making 60ish plus overtime pay an hour and bonus.

Thanks, I will keep this in mind. CRNA's do pretty well too.

Edit: http://www.crnajobs.com/CRNA-Jobs/Job-Details/New-Jersey-180164/

Here is a listing that is offering 150-200k. Dang.

I found another one near Philly offering 160k for new grads. That 200k job will probably go to someone with more experience but this seems like a pretty good field to go into. 9-5 job. I will have to look into this more.

 

[xnfs93hy]

I do not know what you mean by you are taxed in a different bracket once you hit $170,000. I heard there is going to be a new tax under Obama for people make over $250,000. Do not know what either of those taxes mean.

 

[glowworm]

I do not know what you mean by you are taxed in a different bracket once you hit $170,000. I heard there is going to be a new tax under Obama for people make over $250,000. Do not know what either of those taxes mean.

But there are different tax brackets for people of different salary ranges. someone making 60K pays a lower percentage of taxes than someone making 120K. I think he means there is a big jump in the percentage before 170K and after 170K. Under-250K people still pay taxes with Obama, they just get a rebate of x amount. or something like that.

Search the forums for info about CNRAs, there was a good thread or two about them somewhere. It sounded at least as competitive (as far as # of applicants per seat) as med school.

 

[xnfs93hy]

But there are different tax brackets for people of different salary ranges. someone making 60K pays a lower percentage of taxes than someone making 120K. I think he means there is a big jump in the percentage before 170K and after 170K. Under-250K people still pay taxes with Obama, they just get a rebate of x amount. or something like that.

Search the forums for info about CNRAs, there was a good thread or two about them somewhere. It sounded at least as competitive (as far as # of applicants per seat) as med school.

The pay is obviously very good but yeah I wouldn't doubt it. CRNA's are the highest paid nurses I believe.

 

[Elkoshi]

Please realize that being a pharmacist is a demanding job. Working anything above a 12 hr shift is tiresome as well as dangerous to the patients you are serving. If you make mistakes you could possibly lose your licence.

I can't help but rehash the fact that residents are limited to 30 hour shifts--and from what I've heard that's often honored more in the breach.

 

[Hemingways]

Hi Jeff. I just joined SDN today to take advantage of the Pre-Allo forums, but I saw your question and I thought I'd take a stab at it. I'm a college student and probably closer to your age. I hope I can answer some of your questions.

I was torn (well, still kind of am) between Medicine and Pharmacy. I started working at a pharmacy when I was a senior in high school and I really enjoy it. I've been interested in the health care since my mom took me to the doctor's office with her when I was about six, but as someone said before me- you need to work in it before you decide it's the career for you. You get to see all the behind the scenes stuff and the more unpleasant/boring sides of the job.

The money in pharmacy is good. Want to know how I know? I do my PIC's banking for him. Want to know why? He doesn't have the time to do it himself. He works 55 hours/week and by the time he leaves the store- everything's closed. Granted, we have a small, local, non-chain pharmacy and most other ones have mulitple pharmacists. The point is that he EARNS that money. He works hard and went through a lot of schooling to get where he is now. With great salary comes great work...usually.

My advice? Get a job or volunteer in pharmacy, work hard your last high school and in college, see if you can survive O Chem, and then see if pharmacy still catches your eye.

Best of luck to you!

P.S.- I see your avatar is of UK. My cousin is in UK Pharmacy program. She says it's great!

 

[glowworm]

I can't help but rehash the fact that residents are limited to 30 hour shifts--and from what I've heard that's often honored more in the breach.

Yeah but the pharmacy schedules i've seen have 12-hr days and then several days off. Couldn't you just work 12-hr days on your days off too?

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

He is referring to a supervising pharmacist in an independent pharmacy. All pharmacies by law is required to have a supervising pharmacist that works the majority of the shifts. If he is an independent supervising pharmacist, he should work the majority days of the week since any day taken off is a day he has to pay another pharmacist to cover him.

They make good money though. If his store fills about 120 prescriptions a day, he should be bringing home 250k after salary and profit.

 

[Terpskins99]

Ok, so I'm jumping into the thread a little late here, but I couldn't help but notice this tidbit...

Do you realize that as an average American you're in the top 6% of the worlds wealthiest people? That if you're making 200k a year you're in the top 1%? That if you do it means all the money you're keeping to yourself you're keeping from children in other countries that can't afford food and clean drinking water? Children who have parasites constantly?

Maybe you're not trying to sound like a jerk, but none the less you do.

WHAT are you talking about? You have got to be kidding me. You might as well demonize every other job in America.

 

[CScull]

Ok, so I'm jumping into the thread a little late here, but I couldn't help but notice this tidbit...


WHAT are you talking about? You have got to be kidding me. You might as well demonize every other job in America.

Ick, no I'm not meaning to go that far. I'm just talking about using your money to go out and buy Ferraris you'll never have time to drive anyways. It's insanely wasteful.

 

[Terpskins99]

Ick, no I'm not meaning to go that far. I'm just talking about using your money to go out and buy Ferraris you'll never have time to drive anyways. It's insanely wasteful.

And so is eating McDonalds or watching television or surfing SDN. What's your excuse?

Anyhow, what makes you think you won't have time to drive a Ferrari? They do let you out of the clinic every now and then to do things like eat... sleep... raise-a-family... you know, life stuff. I think anyone could squeeze in a little Ferrari time if it suits your fancy. No need to crucify them for doing so. Or even for desiring to do so.

 

[jvanewportnews]

But there are different tax brackets for people of different salary ranges. someone making 60K pays a lower percentage of taxes than someone making 120K. I think he means there is a big jump in the percentage before 170K and after 170K. Under-250K people still pay taxes with Obama, they just get a rebate of x amount. or something like that.

Search the forums for info about CNRAs, there was a good thread or two about them somewhere. It sounded at least as competitive (as far as # of applicants per seat) as med school.

So are you saying that I could make more money making $169,000 a year than I could making $170,000 a year because of taxes? I know it might be normal, but I think taxes over 25% is a bug chunk from your income...give me $20 and then immediately take away $5 or so lol

 

[Hallm_7]

I'm a medical student with several friends from college in pharmacy. Here's my opinion:

First off, you don't have to decide now. You really don't have to decide until your junior year of college, although deciding by sophomore year might make volunteering/clinical time easier. Pre-med and pre-pharm are essentially the same in regards to pre-reqs and there is a lot of overlap between clinical experience for the two (working in a pharmacy will earn you some credit for medical school and working in an ER will earn you some credit for pharmacy school). And whatever you do, don't think you know what you want to go into specialty-wise. You need to be in love with pharmacy or medicine as a profession before you start thinking about clinical pharmacy vs retail pharmacy vs hospital pharmacist or neurosurgery vs cardiology vs emergency medicine. You don't know enough about the science or the clinical practice of these specialties until you are well into pharmacy or medical school.

With that being said I'm sure you want a more immediate answer, so I'll give one. You need to determine what you'll enjoy doing most importantly. If you desperately want to be the one calling the shots, the one with the final authority, and the one with the greatest breadth of knowledge then you should go with medicine. It's not meant as a slap towards pharmacy, but the truth is that pharmacy essentially plays a consulting role in healthcare. In other words, physicians may ask a pharmacists opinion on dosing, drug choice or route, but when decision time comes it is ultimately the physician's decision. Some people may not want that. For other people that may be exactly what they are looking for.

Lifestyle issues and payment issues are important considerations. However, they should play a secondary role to your desire to pursue a given profession. With that said I will comment on these issues briefly.

Income:
There is no question that medicine will give you a much greater reimbursement potential than pharmacy. The lowest earning medical specialties generally make 20% more than the typical pharmacist. The highest earning specialties will earn 4 or 5 times a typical pharmacist's salary. The majority of physicians earn 2-3 times that of a typical pharmacist. Of course, that is after residency, so there is some lost earning potential in those years. You'll hear people say that physicians are doomed to see incomes fall, but that will likely affect all medical professions equally (and I actually doubt that will happen either). Of more concern for pharmacists and pharmacy students (as friend have told me) is that incomes for pharmacists may easily stay flat or decline with the plethora of new pharmacy schools opening. True, there is a pharmacy shortage, but with a significantly increasing supply of pharmacy graduates expected in the next 5 years the supply/demand ratio will change in favor of supply even in the absence of fulling staffing all needed pharmacy positions. Residency for physicians will pay half that of what pharmacy grads will make for the first 3-7 years after graduation. Debt levels are pretty equal for medical school and pharmacy school. Both cost anywhere from $20-35,000/year for state schools and 50% more for private schools.

Lifestyle:
In general, pharmacist have a better lifestyle. Most physicians have some form of "call." Most pharmacists will not. Physicians typically work more hours than pharmacists. However, the 60-80 hour weeks I saw quoted in this thread for physicians are generally for a select group of specialties, namely surgical specialties, cardiology, and oftentimes primary care. Any specialty will allow you to work 40 hours per week if you are willing to take the income hit. For surgical specialties and cards it is harder, and for pathology, emergency medicine, hospitalist medicine, derm, gas, ophtho, and others it is far easier. Most of my pharmacy friends are working closer to 50 hours per week than 40 coming right out of school, but I think they have the option of working less for lesser income.

In summary, you will make a good living with a good lifestyle (if you choose your specialty carefully and keep priorities in order) with either medicine or pharmacy. High income is easier in medicine, cush lifestyle is easier in pharmacy. Both play vital roles in the healthcare of our nation and both will be in demand as the population ages faster than we can adapt. Both are science-based and demand a similar pre-req schedule in college. Medical school is definitely more competitive to gain entrance than pharmacy, but pharmacy is fairly competitive as well. Both will require you to actually study in college.

Hope this helps some.

 

[xnfs93hy]

I'm a medical student with several friends from college in pharmacy. Here's my opinion:

First off, you don't have to decide now. You really don't have to decide until your junior year of college, although deciding by sophomore year might make volunteering/clinical time easier. Pre-med and pre-pharm are essentially the same in regards to pre-reqs and there is a lot of overlap between clinical experience for the two (working in a pharmacy will earn you some credit for medical school and working in an ER will earn you some credit for pharmacy school). And whatever you do, don't think you know what you want to go into specialty-wise. You need to be in love with pharmacy or medicine as a profession before you start thinking about clinical pharmacy vs retail pharmacy vs hospital pharmacist or neurosurgery vs cardiology vs emergency medicine. You don't know enough about the science or the clinical practice of these specialties until you are well into pharmacy or medical school.

With that being said I'm sure you want a more immediate answer, so I'll give one. You need to determine what you'll enjoy doing most importantly. If you desperately want to be the one calling the shots, the one with the final authority, and the one with the greatest breadth of knowledge then you should go with medicine. It's not meant as a slap towards pharmacy, but the truth is that pharmacy essentially plays a consulting role in healthcare. In other words, physicians may ask a pharmacists opinion on dosing, drug choice or route, but when decision time comes it is ultimately the physician's decision. Some people may not want that. For other people that may be exactly what they are looking for.

Lifestyle issues and payment issues are important considerations. However, they should play a secondary role to your desire to pursue a given profession. With that said I will comment on these issues briefly.

Income:
There is no question that medicine will give you a much greater reimbursement potential than pharmacy. The lowest earning medical specialties generally make 20% more than the typical pharmacist. The highest earning specialties will earn 4 or 5 times a typical pharmacist's salary. The majority of physicians earn 2-3 times that of a typical pharmacist. Of course, that is after residency, so there is some lost earning potential in those years. You'll hear people say that physicians are doomed to see incomes fall, but that will likely affect all medical professions equally (and I actually doubt that will happen either). Of more concern for pharmacists and pharmacy students (as friend have told me) is that incomes for pharmacists may easily stay flat or decline with the plethora of new pharmacy schools opening. True, there is a pharmacy shortage, but with a significantly increasing supply of pharmacy graduates expected in the next 5 years the supply/demand ratio will change in favor of supply even in the absence of fulling staffing all needed pharmacy positions. Residency for physicians will pay half that of what pharmacy grads will make for the first 3-7 years after graduation. Debt levels are pretty equal for medical school and pharmacy school. Both cost anywhere from $20-35,000/year for state schools and 50% more for private schools.

Lifestyle:
In general, pharmacist have a better lifestyle. Most physicians have some form of "call." Most pharmacists will not. Physicians typically work more hours than pharmacists. However, the 60-80 hour weeks I saw quoted in this thread for physicians are generally for a select group of specialties, namely surgical specialties, cardiology, and oftentimes primary care. Any specialty will allow you to work 40 hours per week if you are willing to take the income hit. For surgical specialties and cards it is harder, and for pathology, emergency medicine, hospitalist medicine, derm, gas, ophtho, and others it is far easier. Most of my pharmacy friends are working closer to 50 hours per week than 40 coming right out of school, but I think they have the option of working less for lesser income.

In summary, you will make a good living with a good lifestyle (if you choose your specialty carefully and keep priorities in order) with either medicine or pharmacy. High income is easier in medicine, cush lifestyle is easier in pharmacy. Both play vital roles in the healthcare of our nation and both will be in demand as the population ages faster than we can adapt. Both are science-based and demand a similar pre-req schedule in college. Medical school is definitely more competitive to gain entrance than pharmacy, but pharmacy is fairly competitive as well. Both will require you to actually study in college.

Hope this helps some.

First of all, thank you for the thoughtful response. This actually helps a lot.

If Pharm school is going to cost as much as medical school and is going to be "up there" in terms of competitiveness, I would rather stick with being pre med and going the medical school route.

I'm just worried that I won't be able to get in from a state school...

I know I will be able to get accepted to good colleges, but, it isn't going to be Harvard or NYU, more like something along the lines of Penn State.

 

[Hallm_7]

It looks like you have some interest at least in Kentucky by the looks of your avatar. I can tell you with utmost certainty that you will be accepted into medical school from UK if you keep up your end of the bargain: 3.6 GPA or higher, 30 on the MCAT, get really involved in a couple extracurriculars, get some quality clinical time early on and keep at it until you apply, and interview decently well. I'm from Kentucky and know several people who went to UK for undergrad and are now in medical school. The same could be said for Penn State or Ohio State or any number of other public schools. In my med school class I'm guessing only 5-10% of the students went to "prestigious" undergraduate schools (Ivy's and other Top-25 undergraduate schools).

It's my opinion that a degree from a private university isn't worth the debt load that you will incur. Doing well in a state school will certainly suffice.

 

[xnfs93hy]

It looks like you have some interest at least in Kentucky by the looks of your avatar. I can tell you with utmost certainty that you will be accepted into medical school from UK if you keep up your end of the bargain: 3.6 GPA or higher, 30 on the MCAT, get really involved in a couple extracurriculars, get some quality clinical time early on and keep at it until you apply, and interview decently well. I'm from Kentucky and know several people who went to UK for undergrad and are now in medical school. The same could be said for Penn State or Ohio State or any number of other public schools. In my med school class I'm guessing only 5-10% of the students went to "prestigious" undergraduate schools (Ivy's and other Top-25 undergraduate schools).

It's my opinion that a degree from a private university isn't worth the debt load that you will incur. Doing well in a state school will certainly suffice.

What about University of Louisville?

 

[Hallm_7]

What about University of Louisville?

Yes.

 

[CScull]

And so is eating McDonalds or watching television or surfing SDN. What's your excuse?

Anyhow, what makes you think you won't have time to drive a Ferrari? They do let you out of the clinic every now and then to do things like eat... sleep... raise-a-family... you know, life stuff. I think anyone could squeeze in a little Ferrari time if it suits your fancy. No need to crucify them for doing so. Or even for desiring to do so.

I think you'll agree there is a very large difference in buying a $3 burger and buying a $300,000 car. I'm not saying that everyone has to sell all of their and live in grass huts (not that I ever would or could); but we should make a conscience effort to help those in need.

It's not my right to tell anyone that they can or cannot buy a Ferrari; but think about it. Why would you buy a three hundred thousand dollar car if you can't even drive it? I'm not saying the drive to work kind of drive. Ferraris are meant to be taken out on the track... something you can only do after taking classes an driving school... something that's time consuming. Maybe some doctors can find the time; I would think it difficult with a family and such an involved job.


I realize my tone was very judgmental and I apologize, I was only trying to provide another point of view that Jef might not have thought of had I not mentioned it. It's a subject I'm quite passionate about so I came on a tad stronger than I should have.

 

[Terpskins99]

I'm not saying that everyone has to sell all of their and live in grass huts (not that I ever would or could); but we should make a conscience effort to help those in need.

And I'm saying nobody should sell all of their whatever or live in grass huts (though we might as well considering the price of tuition these days).
Bottom line: if helping those in need is what motivates you, join the Peace Corps. Medicine is a job, not charity work.

It's not my right to tell anyone that they can or cannot buy a Ferrari; but think about it. Why would you buy a three hundred thousand dollar car if you can't even drive it? I'm not saying the drive to work kind of drive. Ferraris are meant to be taken out on the track... something you can only do after taking classes an driving school... something that's time consuming. Maybe some doctors can find the time; I would think it difficult with a family and such an involved job.

First off, a Ferrari is meant to be driven anywhere, not just the track.
Second, believe it or not, doctors do have time for themselves outside of work. Yes, some even use that time to go to driver's ed (Michelle Au of 12 types of med students-fame). Which isn't nearly as time consuming as this one orthopedic surgeon who spent his free time getting a law degree (Barry Lang, heheh, who subsequently became a medical malpractice attorney suing other doctors).

 

[xnfs93hy]

And I'm saying nobody should sell all of their whatever or live in grass huts (though we might as well considering the price of tuition these days).
Bottom line: if helping those in need is what motivates you, join the Peace Corps. Medicine is a job, not charity work.


First off, a Ferrari is meant to be driven anywhere, not just the track.
Second, believe it or not, doctors do have time for themselves outside of work. Yes, some even use that time to go to driver's ed (Michelle Au of 12 types of med students-fame). Which isn't nearly as time consuming as this one orthopedic surgeon who spent his free time getting a law degree (Barry Lang, heheh, who subsequently became a medical malpractice attorney suing other doctors).

Yep

 

[leopanther]

Haha, you guys are making me blush.

That's a really good idea, I hadn't thought of doing something like that. I'm looking to do some missionary work after I'm situated in my career. This February I'm going to Honduras on a medical mission trip with my church for 10 days. If I'm lucky I'll get to work in the Pharmacy and help hand out over-the-counter type drugs to the people in the village we'll be stationed at. It's really exciting because I'll be working with the Pharmacist and getting to ask questions... it'll be like shadowing and volunteering all in one!

How much does it cost to go on a mission like this, plane tickets and all?

 

[KempDrumsalot]

First off, a Ferrari is meant to be driven anywhere, not just the track.
Second, believe it or not, doctors do have time for themselves outside of work. Yes, some even use that time to go to driver's ed (Michelle Au of 12 types of med students-fame). Which isn't nearly as time consuming as this one orthopedic surgeon who spent his free time getting a law degree (Barry Lang, heheh, who subsequently became a medical malpractice attorney suing other doctors).

In this situation, you are wrong. Jeff wants to work so much to double his paycheck that he wouldn't have time to drive it. I beleive this is what CScull is referring to.

 

[CScull]

How much does it cost to go on a mission like this, plane tickets and all?

I think it's about $1,700 total but I've done quite a bit of fund raising to knock it down a bit.

 

[CScull]

And I'm saying nobody should sell all of their whatever or live in grass huts (though we might as well considering the price of tuition these days).
Bottom line: if helping those in need is what motivates you, join the Peace Corps. Medicine is a job, not charity work.


First off, a Ferrari is meant to be driven anywhere, not just the track.
Second, believe it or not, doctors do have time for themselves outside of work. Yes, some even use that time to go to driver's ed (Michelle Au of 12 types of med students-fame). Which isn't nearly as time consuming as this one orthopedic surgeon who spent his free time getting a law degree (Barry Lang, heheh, who subsequently became a medical malpractice attorney suing other doctors).

-You must have misunderstood me; I said I didn't think we should all sell our houses and live in grass huts.

-I think a lot of people would agree that saving lives is very charitable.

-Again it's not my place to tell people what to do with their money but if you really want to be able to drive a Ferrari you have to have a lot of free time to learn how to drive at those speeds... maybe some people could find the time; I know I couldn't. Why buy a Ferrari anyways though? Porsche's have been smoking them in street racing lately...

Anyway it's a non-issue. I didn't mean to offend anyone; sorry if I struck a sour cord. I was only trying to give a different perspective.

 

[leopanther]

I think it's about $1,700 total but I've done quite a bit of fund raising to knock it down a bit.

Well if you really want to help people there, $1,700 would probably go a long way in Honduras, could probably feed a family for a couple of years, which is a lot more helpful than a pre-med helping hand out medications. I have a lot of respect for doctors and other medical professionals who do things like MSF because they really have the ability to improve someone's life but pre-meds and most medical students go for two reasons: to have fun/cultural experience and put it down on their application. If they wanted to actually, realistically help, they would just donate until they can go as experienced doctors.

 

[bigpharmD]

First of all, thank you for the thoughtful response. This actually helps a lot.

If Pharm school is going to cost as much as medical school and is going to be "up there" in terms of competitiveness, I would rather stick with being pre med and going the medical school route.

I'm just worried that I won't be able to get in from a state school...

I know I will be able to get accepted to good colleges, but, it isn't going to be Harvard or NYU, more like something along the lines of Penn State.

I disagree with the cost. Many PharmD students work during pharmacy school, and many pay for most of the schooling. The average debt for a pharmacist is MUCH lower than that of a graduating medical student and dental student for that matter. Then you add in residency and possibly fellowship while your interest compounds and you can have a very high debt load. Look through some of the posts on here and you will find many medical students/residents with debt loads greater than 200 -250,000 dollars. This then leaves some people who dislike medicine with no way out and are stuck because of debt. I have less than 80,000 and attended a private pharmacy school. I am not saying you cant pay it off, especially if you are a brain surgeon, but getting a check from Sallie for 1,000 dollars every month can be mind numbing.

 

[bigpharmD]

I disagree with the cost. Many PharmD students work during pharmacy school, and many pay for most of the schooling. The average debt for a pharmacist is MUCH lower than that of a graduating medical student and dental student for that matter. Then you add in residency and possibly fellowship while your interest compounds and you can have a very high debt load. Look through some of the posts on here and you will find many medical students/residents with debt loads greater than 200 -250,000 dollars. This then leaves some people who dislike medicine with no way out and are stuck because of debt. I have less than 80,000 and attended a private pharmacy school. I am not saying you cant pay it off, especially if you are a brain surgeon, but getting a check from Sallie for 1,000 dollars every month can be mind numbing.

Here is a current discussion in the resident forum about this very issue. Something to think about. My suggestion is to work A LOT and save money prior to going to school.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7514932#post7514932

 

[CScull]

Well if you really want to help people there, $1,700 would probably go a long way in Honduras, could probably feed a family for a couple of years, which is a lot more helpful than a pre-med helping hand out medications. I have a lot of respect for doctors and other medical professionals who do things like MSF because they really have the ability to improve someone's life but pre-meds and most medical students go for two reasons: to have fun/cultural experience and put it down on their application. If they wanted to actually, realistically help, they would just donate until they can go as experienced doctors.

You're really going to argue that paying to go on a medical mission trip is detrimental to the people of Honduras? Okay. I'll bite.

While I obviously won't be saving any lives or improving them myself I will be assisting those who do. You do realize that in this setting Doctors and Pharmacists need help with menial tasks just as they do in their normal settings right? I'm not sure exactly what I'll be doing yet; but I'm sure my help will be useful to the professionals I'm working under.

It is a learning experience like any other; but I hardly think it's going to be all daisies and roses. It's something I would like to do when I am a Doctor or Pharmacists; but I know by experiencing the trip now I'll be more prepared when I do go after I have a degree.

Also a lot of the money I used to pay for the trip wasn't solely for my plane ticket. Quite a bit went for the medicine and supplies we will take with us on the trip. I hardly think we're going to be flying first class and I know we don't get warm showers or comfortable accommodations.

 

[bananaface]

This thread has alot of helpful basic info: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=198059

You don't have to do a residency to become a clinical pharmacist, although it is an excellent way to get your foot in the door and practice a particular specialty. Many people believe that you do (even advisors and professors), but there are alot of smaller hospitals trying to start up clinical programs at this time and some places that just don't have many pharmacists where you could get your foot in the door without a residency. You'd have to move for the job and you'd have to do alot of looking. I'd recommend a residency if you want to go into most specialties, because you'll tend to be more competitive for jobs you really want, not settling for the new clinician role or a job in the middle of nowhere. And, honestly, your patients will be better off.

I'm not sure if anyone said so, but it typically takes 5-8 years to complete a PharmD. it's 2-4 years of prereqs depending on the school and the PharmD itself is 3-4 years. At 3 year programs, you go year-round. Most people I know who have done those find the pace breakneck and have a hard time getting their internship hours in. A 4 year program lets you work during school and incur less debt. You can take community college courses in high school and they can count towards prereqs. I know a few ppl who did that and when into pharm school at 18. they will start earning wages roughly 10 years sooner than most MDs. That's a heck of a chunk of your life.