Pharmaceutical Industry instead of Residency?

[osirus0164]

Does anyone know of specific jobs at pharm companies for MDs straight from med school? I've heard of people working as medical liasons and making 125K+ a year working 40 hours/week. And are there other jobs in other industries for non-board certified MDs?

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[xanthines]

http://apd.mckinsey.com/

McKinsey is a prestigious consulting company. Their site says they accept MD's straight from school or residency w/ no business training necessary. My roomate got a PhD in neuroscience and did something similar with a smaller company instead of doing a post-doc.

I think most other consulting firms like Sci/Eng PhD's, so I imagine and MD would be pretty desirable as well. Just speculation, though.

-X

Does anyone know of specific jobs at pharm companies for MDs straight from med school? I've heard of people working as medical liasons and making 125K+ a year working 40 hours/week. And are there other jobs in other industries for non-board certified MDs?

 

[Arctic Char]

clinical research is a frequently pursued path. you can do a 2-year fellowship in clinical research and then you are considered valuable to anyone who needs sound interpretations of data before making business or policy decisions. call it a liason, call it consultant, whatever. these jobs tend to pay excellently as well. check out medzilla.com and do a search for "MD" and then you can just browse through the listings.

finding the fellowship that takes a non-BC doc is the hard part i guess.

 

[InductionAgent]

Does anyone know of specific jobs at pharm companies for MDs straight from med school? I've heard of people working as medical liasons and making 125K+ a year working 40 hours/week. And are there other jobs in other industries for non-board certified MDs?

Are you serious? I would at least do a 1-year internship so that you could get a medical license.

Do some research and find an easy transitional year or relatively benign preliminary medicine year. I think you'd find it well worth your while after all the time you've put into it thus far. Being a licensed MD would add a lot to your resume.

 

[ORBITAL BEBOP]

I have a prelim year under my belt and I do not want to do a 2 year fellowship in stats. What can I do with just this prelim year completed? Also, not all states will license a physician with only one year of residency.

 

[backontop]

you can not make 250K out of medical school at a pharmaceutical company and work 40hrs a week.

I have a lot of experience with this job market. The best way to get a six figure job is to practice for 5-10 yrs, then go into corporate america. Having 1yr of residency, or completed a residency, or graduated recently is all pretty much on the same par. The jobs you can obtain with those credentials are decent, but no where near 250K.

 

[osirus0164]

you can not make 250K out of medical school at a pharmaceutical company and work 40hrs a week.

I have a lot of experience with this job market. The best way to get a six figure job is to practice for 5-10 yrs, then go into corporate america. Having 1yr of residency, or completed a residency, or graduated recently is all pretty much on the same par. The jobs you can obtain with those credentials are decent, but no where near 250K.

Who said 250K? Is 125K for 40 hrs possible?

 

[PublicHealth]

Who said 250K? Is 125K for 40 hrs possible?

Yup. I know psychologists who work for pharma and make $180K.

 

[docrjay]

To tartufe and others

Theres a MS in Pharmacology (Clinical Pharmacology / Clinical Trial Design Track) at Ohio State University. It is specifically designed for MD's and some paramedicals for the pharmaceutical industry. Its only 9 months, and has no thesis requirement!

You can aalso get the American Academy of Pharmaceutical Medicine certification exam as Certified Physician Investigator. Theres also a certification exam for Clinical Trial Investigator offered by the Association of Clinical Research Profesionals. Its nice to get this after internship year including the MS of course.
Check out the websites of AAPP & ACRP.

Yup I think its feasible to get a 125K for 40 hours in this type of work.

 

[ORBITAL BEBOP]

How does a person find out more about these fields (besides mckinsey)?

 

[ORBITAL BEBOP]

How does a person find out more about these fields (besides mckinsey)?

Do I have to have one of those certifications? I am pretty burnt out with school.

 

[fedor]

There's always finance.

Hedge funds and private equity firms are always looking for people with experience in their industry (ie, medicine, software, etc.).

I would, however, recommend you finish a residency before making the transition over to finance.

 

[backontop]

I am sorry. I don't know why i thought you said 250. Nonetheless, you can substitute 125 into my previous post and i still feel the same way. The exception would be if you decided to not use your medical knowledge and go consulting, venture capital, i-banking, finance, etc. but 40hrs/week??? doubtful.

some of the stuff with MS degrees and stuff sounds a little bit kooky too. Would you go to community college after graduating from an ivy league school?? I don't mean to be rude, but most people get an MS to help get them into medical school; not the other way around. You should have done enough research and pharmacology during medical school to qualify for those positions (come on, you're a doctor). More education and certs will not trump an MD. My friends who have an MS and an MD sign their name with the initials MD after it, not MS.

pyschologists are not making 180. show me links that support this. they are one of the most screwed professions in the phd world w/social workers and psychiatrists dominating them. are you sure you aren't talking about psychiatrists rather than psychologists.>>??

tartuf, isn't it funny how people on this forum think an intern yr. actually does something?? remember, if you are burned out and need a break, you can always go back to medicine. you will probably take a pay cut in the long run if you leave medicine entirely. thats okay though if you're happy.

if something sounds too good to be true it probably is.

 

[osirus0164]

found this job on medzilla

Mason Henley Group
US-NY, Medical Science Liaison - Biotech Oncology - Northeast MSLoncNE-MZ

Company Info: Client company is a rapidly growing biotechonolgy manufacturer specializing in Oncology Therapeutics.

Job Description: Biotech company looking for a talented Medical Science Liaison to work with oncology physicians in the Northeast. The territory will include New Jersey, Metro New York City and Eastern Pennsylvania.

Requirements: Qualified Candidates must be a current MSL and live within the territory. Candidates will also need to have an advanced degree (MD, PharmD or PhD)



Salary and Benefits: The base Salary will 125K and over (depending on experience). There is a 10K signing bonus and and annual bonus of 20% (could be more depending on company performance). Strong benefit package. Company Car. Stock Options.



Some questions I had if anyone has experience with this
1. what exactly is a medical science liason
2. this job is lookin for a msl with experience. who hires and trains new msl's?
3. is there much room for advancement as a msl?

 

[PublicHealth]

pyschologists are not making 180. show me links that support this. they are one of the most screwed professions in the phd world w/social workers and psychiatrists dominating them. are you sure you aren't talking about psychiatrists rather than psychologists.>>??

Nope. I'm talking about psychologists. Specifically, neuropsychologists. Here are some links to some of these "screwed professionals:"

http://www.prainternational.com/cns_experts.htm

http://www.apa.org/science/ic-snyder.html

Here's a recent job posting (Pay range: $125-175K according to e-mail from HR Director at PRA International):
Job Title Director of Global Product Development Services
Job Family Management/Executive
PRA Location Charlottesville, VA
Eatontown, NJ
Horsham, PA
Lenexa, KS
Mannheim, Germany
Ottawa, Ontario
Paris, France
Reading, England
AutoReqId 3191BR
JobDetails The experts of PRA’s Neurobehavioral Unit (NBU) have the skills, tools, and experience to help pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies evaluate new potential CNS therapies. We invite you to consider becoming part of our dedicated team. We are currently seeking a Director or Senior Director for our Global Product Development Services group.

The PRA Neurobehavioral Unit is committed to helping our clients identify and appropriately evaluate the psychological and cognitive symptoms, functional impairment or psychiatric morbidity that often emerge as part of a CNS disorder or unwanted side effect of a centrally active compound.

In this role you will provide expert advice in the selection of screening and outcome measures for CNS compounds. Core competencies of the ideal candidate includes a specialized knowledge in the psychometric properties of these instruments, the ability to properly administer, score and analyze these instruments as well as demonstrate training
methodology of them. Knowledge of various regulatory agencies and their preferences is necessary.

In conjunction with other team members you will participate in CNS study and/or program design and strategic consultation. Additional roles include study support and resources such as providing comprehensive rater qualification and inter-rater reliability programs, on-site training, and participation at Investigator Meetings.
Qualifications The successful candidate is required to have recent experience with clinical trials development in the pharmaceutical/CRO industry and a strong academic career in the field of Neuropsychology. Doctoral degree level education (PhD, equivalent) in Neuropsychology from an accredited institution is required.


Drugs that affect cognition are "hot" in pharma -- ADHD, Alzheimer's, to name just two disorders, are target markets for drug developers. Neuropsychologists are the best trained to assess cognitive effects of medications and are therefore often employed by pharmaceutical companies.

 

[PublicHealth]

Just found this on medzilla...don't hate, congratulate, my dear pre-med...


AstraZeneca
US-DE, Director; Discovery Medicine (Clinical Research Psychologist) 1769069-MZ

Provide scientific expertise in and management and coordination of clinical psychological research in drug development. The emphasis is on clinical measures of cognitive endpoints relevant to early development, with special attention to bridging from preclinical models where this is feasible. The role holder will develop and implement methods for assessment of attention, learning and memory, executive functions and other measures for clinical studies of of drugs for treatment of cognitive deficits in psychiatric disorders and to the assessment of cognitive effects of drugs across therapy areas. Provide neurocognitive perspective in drug risk / benefit assessment; program and goal evaluation; risk management plans, and strategic planning. .

Major Responsibilities
Evaluate, establish and implement neurocognitive outcome measures for drug development
Evaluate clinical trial target enrollment and projected neurocognitive endpoints and participate in investigator meetings when needed
Collaborate with Discovery Medicine Scientists to evaluate novel measures of drug effect and to identify ideal populations for test of Proof of Principle and Proof of Concept
Develop disease models to estimate necessary efficacy and safety hurdles for candidate drugs
Evaluate external data sources and design and manage contracted neurocognitive studies.
Support studies for neurocognitive safety and risk management
Contribute to Risk Minimization Action Plans
Provide input to value pack documents
Review proposals for investigator-initiated trials
Present results of research to internal and external customers
Assess product specific opportunities for business development
Assess therapy area specific opportunities

Key Internal and External Contacts/Customers
Discovery and Development Scientists and Project Staff, especially those supporting the Emerging Psychiatry Portfolio
Other US and Global Product Teams
Academic researchers and external consultants
Medical Affairs
Marketing & Market Research, Health Economics / Outcomes Research
Business Development
Drug Safety
Regulatory Affairs

Reporting Relationship
Direct Reports - 0+
Indirect Reports 0-1

Qualifications:

Minimum Requirements.
Advanced degree (Ph.D. or equivalent) in Psychology, preferably neuropsychology/cognitive psychology with rigorous training in quantitative research methods
In depth understanding of neuropsychological and cognitive methods, including descriptive, observational and experimental study designs, data analysis, and data management
Record of sustained productivity in the design, implementation, analysis, publication, and formal presentation of neuropsychological/cognitive research projects
Minimum of 3-5 years practical experience in neuropsychology/cognitive psychology including several first and/or senior author publications of original research in high-quality, peer reviewed journals
Strong written and oral communication skills
Demonstrated expertise in at least 2 disease or therapeutic areas
Demonstrated leadership and ability to manage multiple / complex projects
Strong interpersonal skills


Preferred Background
At least 1 year pharmaceutical industry experience. Experience in research in schizophrenia and/or other major psychiatric disorders.

 

[WatchingWaiting]

Just found this on medzilla...don't hate, congratulate, my dear pre-med...


AstraZeneca
US-DE, Director; Discovery Medicine (Clinical Research Psychologist) 1769069-MZ

Provide scientific expertise in and management and coordination of clinical psychological research in drug development. The emphasis is on clinical measures of cognitive endpoints relevant to early development, with special attention to bridging from preclinical models where this is feasible. The role holder will develop and implement methods for assessment of attention, learning and memory, executive functions and other measures for clinical studies of of drugs for treatment of cognitive deficits in psychiatric disorders and to the assessment of cognitive effects of drugs across therapy areas. Provide neurocognitive perspective in drug risk / benefit assessment; program and goal evaluation; risk management plans, and strategic planning. .

Major Responsibilities
Evaluate, establish and implement neurocognitive outcome measures for drug development
Evaluate clinical trial target enrollment and projected neurocognitive endpoints and participate in investigator meetings when needed
Collaborate with Discovery Medicine Scientists to evaluate novel measures of drug effect and to identify ideal populations for test of Proof of Principle and Proof of Concept
Develop disease models to estimate necessary efficacy and safety hurdles for candidate drugs
Evaluate external data sources and design and manage contracted neurocognitive studies.
Support studies for neurocognitive safety and risk management
Contribute to Risk Minimization Action Plans
Provide input to value pack documents
Review proposals for investigator-initiated trials
Present results of research to internal and external customers
Assess product specific opportunities for business development
Assess therapy area specific opportunities

Key Internal and External Contacts/Customers
Discovery and Development Scientists and Project Staff, especially those supporting the Emerging Psychiatry Portfolio
Other US and Global Product Teams
Academic researchers and external consultants
Medical Affairs
Marketing & Market Research, Health Economics / Outcomes Research
Business Development
Drug Safety
Regulatory Affairs

Reporting Relationship
Direct Reports - 0+
Indirect Reports 0-1

Qualifications:

Minimum Requirements.
Advanced degree (Ph.D. or equivalent) in Psychology, preferably neuropsychology/cognitive psychology with rigorous training in quantitative research methods
In depth understanding of neuropsychological and cognitive methods, including descriptive, observational and experimental study designs, data analysis, and data management
Record of sustained productivity in the design, implementation, analysis, publication, and formal presentation of neuropsychological/cognitive research projects
Minimum of 3-5 years practical experience in neuropsychology/cognitive psychology including several first and/or senior author publications of original research in high-quality, peer reviewed journals
Strong written and oral communication skills
Demonstrated expertise in at least 2 disease or therapeutic areas
Demonstrated leadership and ability to manage multiple / complex projects
Strong interpersonal skills


Preferred Background
At least 1 year pharmaceutical industry experience. Experience in research in schizophrenia and/or other major psychiatric disorders.

It's always entertaining to see how totally delusional some people are about how "easy" it is to make money outside of medicine. That is a senior management position, which pretty clearly is going to require five-to-ten years of post-graduate work before obtaining it. This is like arguing that all MBAs make mad bank and then citing a job listing for Vice President of a Fortune 500 company as evidence.

Guess what-- a very small fraction of people with these degrees get these high-ranking positions. And, for every one person who gets this kind of a job, there are ten working for 1/3 of that income as research scientists (guess what-- that director of research probably has 10 lower-level PhDs doing the grunt-work and getting paid much less than him/her).

 

[backontop]

watching waiting,

you are dead on. i can't believe they backed it up with "medzilla" too!! what a worthless site.

guys, you don't think i've found stuff like that?? you think you are breaking new ground by doing a yahoo search??

clearly delusional.

thanks though guys; got a real kick out of those links.

 

[backontop]

and psychologists are soooo screwed. it's not even close.

 

[DrJosephKim]

If anyone is still interested in this topic, I've posted various things on my blog. I have everything condensed here:

http://nonclinical.blogspot.com/2008/04/non-clinical-opportunities-for.html

Feel free to contact me about specifics. I haven't worked in all these areas, but I know many people in various industry segments. Would be happy to get you connected with them.

 

[nattygann01]

I don't mean to be rude, but most people get an MS to help get them into medical school; not the other way around. You should have done enough research and pharmacology during medical school to qualify for those positions (come on, you're a doctor). More education and certs will not trump an MD. My friends who have an MS and an MD sign their name with the initials MD after it, not MS.

Not true...Many, many, many fellowship programs offer tracks for MDs wanting to pursue a PhD, MPH, MS in clinical investigation for extra formal research training. This is very valuable. NOT necessary, but very valuable, depending on where you want to do with your career.

 

[Doowai]

To tartufe and others

Theres a MS in Pharmacology (Clinical Pharmacology / Clinical Trial Design Track) at Ohio State University. It is specifically designed for MD's and some paramedicals for the pharmaceutical industry. Its only 9 months, and has no thesis requirement!

You can aalso get the American Academy of Pharmaceutical Medicine certification exam as Certified Physician Investigator. Theres also a certification exam for Clinical Trial Investigator offered by the Association of Clinical Research Profesionals. Its nice to get this after internship year including the MS of course.
Check out the websites of AAPP & ACRP.

Yup I think its feasible to get a 125K for 40 hours in this type of work.

What can you do with the MS?

 

[LADoc00]

why would you sell yourself short for 125K salary? That doesnt make any financial sense given the opportunity cost of medical school/premed crap.

You can make 125 without a college degree...that is some piss poor expectations...

 

[Biscuit799]

why would you sell yourself short for 125K salary? That doesnt make any financial sense given the opportunity cost of medical school/premed crap.

You can make 125 without a college degree...that is some piss poor expectations...

A slight exaggeration, no?

 

[Faebinder]

A slight exaggeration, no?

It doesn't take a college degree to open a grocery/cell phone/franchised fastfood store... with okay credit and a loan from the bank, you can potentially earn that much and even expand to multiple stores. Might have to get some partners at first to get that loan. That's just one example.

 

[balls]

This thread is depressing. I'm as pro-money as they come, but a doctor's interest in money should be suboordinate to his interest in medicine. Some of you clearly got into this field for the wrong reasons. Going from medical school to pharma (of all things) is disgraceful.