Pharmacist Adjusted Salary- do we even make that much?

[desklamp]

http://benbrownmd.wordpress.com/2010/06/20/informedconsent/

After reading this article about physician adjusted hourly salary not being much more than a HS teacher, I'm curious as to your opinions on pharmacist salary when factoring in debt (for me, in an out-of-state school with no scholarships, I take out about 34,000$ in loans per year).

I have no idea how much monthly loan payments will be with interest so it's difficult for me to judge accurately. But off the top of my head it feels like I will be making beans. Are pharmacist hours (clinical pharmacy in particular) typically more than 40 hours a week? My friends keep telling me to not complain, I'll be making 6 figs! However I'm starting to doubt it will be in the 6 figure range after taxes and debt. Maybe closer to how much to the starting salary I'd make in pharmaceutical research with a master's degree...?

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[PharmD RPh]

http://benbrownmd.wordpress.com/2010/06/20/informedconsent/

After reading this article about physician adjusted hourly salary not being much more than a HS teacher, I'm curious as to your opinions on pharmacist salary when factoring in debt (for me, in an out-of-state school with no scholarships, I take out about 34,000$ in loans per year).

I have no idea how much monthly loan payments will be with interest so it's difficult for me to judge accurately. But off the top of my head it feels like I will be making beans. Are pharmacist hours (clinical pharmacy in particular) typically more than 40 hours a week? My friends keep telling me to not complain, I'll be making 6 figs! However I'm starting to doubt it will be in the 6 figure range after taxes and debt. Maybe closer to how much to the starting salary I'd make in pharmaceutical research with a master's degree...?

Wow, that is a good well thought out article and maybe should be posted in the pre-pharm section as well. A few differences is that we aren't required to do residency which helps out a lot. I could only imagine what the numbers would look like for a pharmacist that does a 2 year residency. And yes, I understand some people have a passion for clinical pharmacy and money isn't the only thing that makes people happy. I've always been the person that had the mindset that if I wanted to do residency, I should have just became a physician.

Your questioning about making 6 figures is right on. I predict for the next few years we will see salaries stagnant or decline slightly based on labour economics. This mainly has to do with the fact that the supply part will be increasing faster than demand. As a result, jobs will be harder to come by, people will stick with their job or company longer indicating signs of a saturated market. I honestly think market forces will take effect at some point.... Maybe when incomes drop below 100k and try to correct itself. Working conditions will get worse as we'll be asked to do more and if we can't there's the door.

So, is it worth it for the pre-pharm student? Not IMO. The amount of time and money spent on pharmacy only to graduate into an unemployment is just not convincing enough for me to spend 6-7 years and 200k on school. But lets assume you do get out making 120k as a single staff pharmacist in retail. You'll lay roughly 25k in federal tax, 6k to social security, 2k to Medicare, 5-7k to state tax, maybe 2k to local tax, 3k on health and dental ins, 10k to 401k, 0.5k on professional fees (licensing, malpractice, ce, subscriptions or memberships), 1k for disability, life ins, etc. Now your 120k is 65k. This all assumes you can get a job and salaries do not decrease. Take out student loan payments, car, rent/mortgage, and other Msc monthly bills and you're not left with much. Basically you work to pay the bills and maybe have some fun here and there.

 

[Marcus X]

I always hate these threads.

Everyone says, "After taxes, 401k, blah, blah, blah, you're only left with $60,000, which is barely more than what the average high school teacher makes. It's like everyone forgets that high school teachers (as well as everyone else) have to pay all of those things as well (except, usually, obscene loan payments). The difference is that they're starting at $60,000 and subtracting from there. If you're taking home $60,000 after everything, that's pretty good, considering the median household income is about $55,000 gross.

 

[p-rog]

I don't understand the math in that article.. Why would you add the hours needed to train into the denominator of the formula for adjusted income?


Also i know plenty of med students who don't spend 80 f-ing hours a week going to class and studying. They might do that during test weeks, but even that's a stretch.

That being said, I don't really think MD's make too much in general. But some of the specialists (i.e. rad, onc, derm) definitely do make a lot more money than they should.

 

[awval999]

To be honest I think in the future pharmacy is going to be a lot like law. And as a graduate from a good pharmacy school I can only hope that hospitals start to look at where the person graduated from when picking between candidates. I think that is the way its heading.

About salary, to those concerned, I can only say this, my life is excellent, I have money for a nice downtown loft, money to go on lots of vacations (hawaii in a week), money to buy new clothes, money to take my girlfriend out on dates. Do I have to make sacrifices, yes, I don't buy Se7en jeans or drive a BMW. However if I didn't spend all my money on traveling I very well could have a BMW. I just choose to spend my money how I want. I don't live in SF or NYC, but I very well could afford it if I would marry my girlfriend and she brought home a nominal 30,000-40,000 salary.

Here are my expenses:
Stafford $914.80
Key $144.76
AES $36.03
Perkins $88.57

Total Loans $1,184.16

Rent $1,195.00
Cable $100.00
Electric $100.00
Insurance $72.00
Gasoline $80.00
Groceries $250.00

$2,981.16

My net monthly pay after putting away 10% pretax (+5% match) into my 403b (so I can retire with 5 million dollars) is $5850. I'm left with $2870 every month to blow. And I sure try my best. So I just try to live it up before the new grads destroy us and our jobs.

 

[PharmD RPh]

I always hate these threads.

Everyone says, "After taxes, 401k, blah, blah, blah, you're only left with $60,000, which is barely more than what the average high school teacher makes. It's like everyone forgets that high school teachers (as well as everyone else) have to pay all of those things as well (except, usually, obscene loan payments). The difference is that they're starting at $60,000 and subtracting from there. If you're taking home $60,000 after everything, that's pretty good, considering the median household income is about $55,000 gross.

The mean amount of education for the mean household income is not 7 years either. 60k is fine if single and you have a spouses income too. But throw in a few kids and it starts to get tight.

 

[PharmD RPh]

To be honest I think in the future pharmacy is going to be a lot like law. And as a graduate from a good pharmacy school I can only hope that hospitals start to look at where the person graduated from when picking between candidates. I think that is the way its heading.

About salary, to those concerned, I can only say this, my life is excellent, I have money for a nice downtown loft, money to go on lots of vacations (hawaii in a week), money to buy new clothes, money to take my girlfriend out on dates. Do I have to make sacrifices, yes, I don't buy Se7en jeans or drive a BMW. However if I didn't spend all my money on traveling I very well could have a BMW. I just choose to spend my money how I want. I don't live in SF or NYC, but I very well could afford it if I would marry my girlfriend and she brought home a nominal 30,000-40,000 salary.

Here are my expenses:
Stafford $914.80
Key $144.76
AES $36.03
Perkins $88.57

Total Loans $1,184.16

Rent $1,195.00
Cable $100.00
Electric $100.00
Insurance $72.00
Gasoline $80.00
Groceries $250.00

$2,981.16

My net monthly pay after putting away 10% pretax (+5% match) into my 403b (so I can retire with 5 million dollars) is $5850. I'm left with $2870 every month to blow. And I sure try my best. So I just try to live it up before the new grads destroy us and our jobs.

I've decided against vacation and started aggressively budgeting until I see how this whole million new pharmacy school thing is going to play out. I would also advise saving $$$$ for any other pharmacists out there as our job market is growing more uncertain.

 

[awval999]

I've decided against vacation and started aggressively budgeting until I see how this whole million new pharmacy school thing is going to play out. I would also advise saving $$$$ for any other pharmacists out there as our job market is growing more uncertain.

I don't spend all of it of course, I was just trying to show that pharmacists only live paycheck to paycheck if they are awful with money. Its easy to spend money. Don't buy the Audi or BMW. Buy your jeans at Kohls. Don't buy a 500K house. Money problems solved.

 

[ItsGavinC]

But some of the specialists (i.e. rad, onc, derm) definitely do make a lot more money than they should.

And you came to your conclusion how?

 

[awval999]

And you came to your conclusion how?

A lot of young liberal college students seem to think they should determine the salary of others.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I always hate these threads.

Everyone says, "After taxes, 401k, blah, blah, blah, you're only left with $60,000, which is barely more than what the average high school teacher makes. It's like everyone forgets that high school teachers (as well as everyone else) have to pay all of those things as well (except, usually, obscene loan payments). The difference is that they're starting at $60,000 and subtracting from there. If you're taking home $60,000 after everything, that's pretty good, considering the median household income is about $55,000 gross.

The mean amount of education for the mean household income is not 7 years either. 60k is fine if single and you have a spouses income too. But throw in a few kids and it starts to get tight.

The majority of the country gets by on the median household income or less and manages to raise children, etc. Even with only one parent working. I agree with Marcus. 60K after taxes and other requireds is pretty darn good, especially if you don't have an extravagant lifestyle. Especially in my area of the country, it's enough to have a comfortable life, nice home, etc. Wanting to work hard and make more money if that's what you want, but let's have some perspective. Pharmacists are far from being economically disadvantaged.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

And as a graduate from a good pharmacy school I can only hope that hospitals start to look at where the person graduated from when picking between candidates. I think that is the way its heading.

I hope they'll continue to hire the best, most qualified candidates, regardless of where the student attended school. The worst student I've worked with on my APPE rotations this year (by far... he was HORRIBLE) was from a "Top 10" university. Name isn't everything.

 

[owlegrad]

The majority of the country gets by on the median household income or less and manages to raise children, etc. Even with only one parent working. I agree with Marcus. 60K after taxes and other requireds is pretty darn good, especially if you don't have an extravagant lifestyle. Especially in my area of the country, it's enough to have a comfortable life, nice home, etc. Wanting to work hard and make more money if that's what you want, but let's have some perspective. Pharmacists are far from being economically disadvantaged.

Is that so? Off the top of my head I can't think of a single-income family that I know personally. Possible, sure - but I don't think that a one-income nuclear family is common.

Now that I think about it, maybe you are reffering to a single parent raising their kids alone? Yeah that would be tough for sure, although there are aid programs that should make it a bit easier. In this situation I bet time is more of a constrant than money, although I am sure both get very tight sometimes.

I agree with y'all about a single pharmacist netting more that most families gross being pretty darn good. Sometimes people lose all perspective. Boohoo I pay more in taxes than most Amaricans take home in a year. Cry me a river.

(I wonder what I will think of this post in 5 years? Perspectives changes 😀)

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Is that so? Off the top of my head I can't think of a single-income family that I know personally. Possible, sure - but I don't think that a one-income nuclear family is common.

Now that I think about it, maybe you are reffering to a single parent raising their kids alone? Yeah that would be tough for sure, although there are aid programs that should make it a bit easier. In this situation I bet time is more of a constrant than money, although I am sure both get very tight sometimes.

I agree with y'all about a single pharmacist netting more that most families gross being pretty darn good. Sometimes people lose all perspective. Boohoo I pay more in taxes than most Amaricans take home in a year. Cry me a river.

(I wonder what I will think of this post in 5 years? Perspectives changes 😀)

You really don't know any one-income families? Maybe it's because I'm older and have a lot of friends who have children, but I know quite a few stay-at-home moms. One friend stays home with four children between 1 and 8 years. Another has four kids ages 4 to 13 and a new baby on the way. Heck, I have not worked consistently since 2005 because of school and my husband's income has been more than enough to support him, me and our daughter before she died. It even paid for daycare so I could go to school and most families with stay-at-home moms don't have that expense.

 

[SHC1984]

I agree with y'all about a single pharmacist netting more that most families gross being pretty darn good. Sometimes people lose all perspective. Boohoo I pay more in taxes than most Amaricans take home in a year. Cry me a river.

(I wonder what I will think of this post in 5 years? Perspectives changes 😀)

Most Americans aren't in any kind of debt. Pharmacy students come out with 100K in student loans.

Being a pharmacist is very hard work and extremely stressful work so the pay should be higher. Most Americans make less but their jobs are NOT as hard and their stress level isn't as high etc.

How much you make usually correlates to how much responsibilty you have and how much stress and work you have. Pharmacists have one of the highest so their pay is higher.

So if a person works harder and make more money they should have to pay more taxes? HELL NO! I have always supported flat taxes...everyone paids the same percentage, that is the most fair way to do this. Yes, Yes some people are filthy rich it ain't fair etc. but those people work their ass off and are under very high stress, so they deserve their money so it is fair!

 

[owlegrad]

You really don't know any one-income families? ...

I know some classmates who have children, so I guess that sorta counts. But no all my friends have parents who are divorced or both work. I don't know any stay at home moms. I am trying to think of ladies at church who might not work. Can't think of any, except the nice old ladies who are retired. I just don't think that stay at home moms are common at all. Maybe this is more a reflection of my socioeconomic background more than anything else though.

 

[homeslice]

Most Americans aren't in any kind of debt. Pharmacy students come out with 100K in student loans.

Being a pharmacist is very hard work and extremely stressful work so the pay should be higher. Most Americans make less but their jobs are NOT as hard and their stress level isn't as high etc.

How much you make usually correlates to how much responsibilty you have and how much stress and work you have. Pharmacists have one of the highest so their pay is higher.

So if a person works harder and make more money they should have to pay more taxes? HELL NO! I have always supported flat taxes...everyone paids the same percentage, that is the most fair way to do this. Yes, Yes some people are filthy rich it ain't fair etc. but those people work their ass off and are under very high stress, so they deserve their money so it is fair!

Haha. Bahahahaha. My GOD, you must be kidding. Please step into the real world.

 

[owlegrad]

Most Americans aren't in any kind of debt. Pharmacy students come out with 100K in student loans.

Being a pharmacist is very hard work and extremely stressful work so the pay should be higher. Most Americans make less but their jobs are NOT as hard and their stress level isn't as high etc.

How much you make usually correlates to how much responsibilty you have and how much stress and work you have. Pharmacists have one of the highest so their pay is higher.

So if a person works harder and make more money they should have to pay more taxes? HELL NO! I have always supported flat taxes...everyone paids the same percentage, that is the most fair way to do this. Yes, Yes some people are filthy rich it ain't fair etc. but those people work their ass off and are under very high stress, so they deserve their money so it is fair!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA! You kill me SHC. Do you know what the average debt level is in America? I don't either, but it ain't 0. Also, who cares that we have 100k in loans? Pay that baby off and enjoy being in the top 1% of earners. Again we NET more than most families GROSS. IMO, anyone who complains at that level lacks any sense of perspective.

Stress is a reflection of how much you allow yourself to be controlled by your environment. 99% of Americans would disagree with you about how stressful their job is. Everyone thinks they have a stressful job, we Americans wear our stress levels like a badge of honor. The reason pharmacists salaries are so high is because there is a high barrier to entry, which for awhile meant supply couldn't equal demand. This is old news though, you know that.

I agree about a simplified tax code. Everyone should pay basically the same percentage of their wages into the system. I don't mind a luxury tax on ridiculous items like private planes and such, if you can afford the purchase you can afford the tax. But the percent of wages paid in should be relatively constant.

 

[SHC1984]

Haha. Bahahahaha. My GOD, you must be kidding. Please step into the real world.

I mean student loans. Most people that only graduated from high school or went to only undergrad don't have any student loans. I didn't have any loans until I started pharmacy school. Graduate school= LOANS! so people that went to graduate school should make more money b/c they have loans.

I know everyone has a mortage to paid...that wasn't what I was refering to.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I can think of some very stressful, very difficult jobs that don't pay crap.

 

[homeslice]

I mean student loans. Most people that only graduated from high school or went to only undergrad don't have any student loans. I didn't have any loans until I started pharmacy school. Graduate school= LOANS! so people that went to graduate school should make more money b/c they have loans.

I know everyone has a mortage to paid...that wasn't what I was refering to.

I would imagine your parents had something to do with this. Remember, most don't have that luxury.

Also keep in mind the amount of debt you can expect to pay off in a reasonable timeframe is not proportional to salary. A 100k debt on a 100k salary is much more manageable than say, a 30k debt on a 30k salary. Student loans are just one of the many, many debts that people in this country take on.

 

[owlegrad]

I can think of some very stressful, very difficult jobs that don't pay crap.

I hope you don't count stripers in that!

 

[SHC1984]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA! You kill me SHC. Do you know what the average debt level is in America? I don't either, but it ain't 0. Also, who cares that we have 100k in loans? Pay that baby off and enjoy being in the top 1% of earners. Again we NET more than most families GROSS. IMO, anyone who complains at that level lacks any sense of perspective.

Stress is a reflection of how much you allow yourself to be controlled by your environment. 99% of Americans would disagree with you about how stressful their job is. Everyone thinks they have a stressful job, we Americans wear our stress levels like a badge of honor. The reason pharmacists salaries are so high is because there is a high barrier to entry, which for awhile meant supply couldn't equal demand. This is old news though, you know that.

I agree about a simplified tax code. Everyone should pay basically the same percentage of their wages into the system. I don't mind a luxury tax on ridiculous items like private planes and such, if you can afford the purchase you can afford the tax. But the percent of wages paid in should be relatively constant.

So you don't think being a pharmacist is more stressful than most other jobs that pay less? Most people aren't responsbile for someone else's life, most people don't have to use their brain constantly while doing their job, most people don't have to stand up for 12 hrs straight, most people don't have to deal with the public yelling at them. I think pharmacist's paid is acutally kind of LOW if you THINK about all the CRAP they have to put up with.

I mean I use to think the same way. I use to think. Damn, dentists make so much money. I bet I would love a job like that. I bet it would be great if I can get a job like that etc. until BAM IT HIT ME. The WORK is very stressful and it requires a lot of you. Thats why the paid is so high. High wage earners EARN a high wage for a reason! Their jobs are harder to perform than others and they are responsible for many more things etc. Once I think of it like that I no longer envy high wage earners. Again, they make a lot of money for a reason and it ain't b/c their job is easy!

 

[SHC1984]

I would imagine your parents had something to do with this. Remember, most don't have that luxury.

Also keep in mind the amount of debt you can expect to pay off in a reasonable timeframe is not proportional to salary. A 100k debt on a 100k salary is much more manageable than say, a 30k debt on a 30k salary. Student loans are just one of the many, many debts that people in this country take on.

I went to the cheapest undergraduate college..so that's why...if it was a private college I would have loans too...

Interesting point...Let me think about that one and get back to you on it! lol...

 

[owlegrad]

So you don't think being a pharmacist is more stressful than most other jobs that pay less?

Do I think that pharmacists have more responsibility than Joe Blow's job? Absolutely. Do I think it is more stressful? No - stress is something you put on yourself, no one can do that to you.

... Again, they make a lot of money for a reason and it ain't b/c their job is easy!

Agree.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I would imagine your parents had something to do with this. Remember, most don't have that luxury.

Also keep in mind the amount of debt you can expect to pay off in a reasonable timeframe is not proportional to salary. A 100k debt on a 100k salary is much more manageable than say, a 30k debt on a 30k salary. Student loans are just one of the many, many debts that people in this country take on.

Plus, high student loan debt doesn't mean one is entitled to a higher salary.

 

[owlegrad]

Plus, high student loan debt doesn't mean one is entitled to a higher salary.

She's a witch! Burn her!

 

[All4MyDaughter]

She's a witch! Burn her!

Personal threats!!! I'm going to infract you for that, boy!! 😛

 

[owlegrad]

Personal threats!!! I'm going to infract you for that, boy!! 😛

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Don't be skeered. It only hurts a little.

 

[desklamp]

To be honest I think in the future pharmacy is going to be a lot like law. And as a graduate from a good pharmacy school I can only hope that hospitals start to look at where the person graduated from when picking between candidates. I think that is the way its heading.

About salary, to those concerned, I can only say this, my life is excellent, I have money for a nice downtown loft, money to go on lots of vacations (hawaii in a week), money to buy new clothes, money to take my girlfriend out on dates. Do I have to make sacrifices, yes, I don't buy Se7en jeans or drive a BMW. However if I didn't spend all my money on traveling I very well could have a BMW. I just choose to spend my money how I want. I don't live in SF or NYC, but I very well could afford it if I would marry my girlfriend and she brought home a nominal 30,000-40,000 salary.

Here are my expenses:
Stafford $914.80
Key $144.76
AES $36.03
Perkins $88.57

Total Loans $1,184.16

Rent $1,195.00
Cable $100.00
Electric $100.00
Insurance $72.00
Gasoline $80.00
Groceries $250.00

$2,981.16

My net monthly pay after putting away 10% pretax (+5% match) into my 403b (so I can retire with 5 million dollars) is $5850. I'm left with $2870 every month to blow. And I sure try my best. So I just try to live it up before the new grads destroy us and our jobs.

~ how much is your total debt/interest rates if you don't mind me asking? it just feels like 120k total debt is going to drain closer to 2000-3000 a month if i want to pay it off at a decent rate :/. my interest rates are 6.5% and 8.5% btw.

 

[p-rog]

And you came to your conclusion how?

Barely any residencies spots for those specialties, artificially limiting the supply side of the equation. Hell, the whole reason those residencies are so damn competitive is that everyone knows you can make bank doing it.

Who the hell would want to go to Med school to be a radiologist if they made as much as pediatricians?

 

[owlegrad]

Don't be skeered. It only hurts a little.

Where have I heard that before...

 

[desklamp]

The majority of the country gets by on the median household income or less and manages to raise children, etc. Even with only one parent working. I agree with Marcus. 60K after taxes and other requireds is pretty darn good, especially if you don't have an extravagant lifestyle. Especially in my area of the country, it's enough to have a comfortable life, nice home, etc. Wanting to work hard and make more money if that's what you want, but let's have some perspective. Pharmacists are far from being economically disadvantaged.

I missed this post. Maybe this is just my situation since I took the non-trad route and got a 4 year bachelors and a masters before switching to 4 more years of pharm school. Did you factor in the opportunity costs of going to school for 4 extra years before determining that 60K a year after taxes is a "pretty darn good" salary? Or the work hours compared to working a more relaxed desk job for a slightly lower salary? I mean yeah it's not bad, maybe even "good", but it's not amazing by any means.

Maybe I'm just weird, but I don't really feel that excited to be making 50-60k, AND have a debt hovering over my head, when I'm 30. That's how much my friend's brother makes at that age (after taxes) and he only has a bachelors.

 

[RxMTM]

Most Americans aren't in any kind of debt. Pharmacy students come out with 100K in student loans.

Being a pharmacist is very hard work and extremely stressful work so the pay should be higher. Most Americans make less but their jobs are NOT as hard and their stress level isn't as high etc.

How much you make usually correlates to how much responsibilty you have and how much stress and work you have. Pharmacists have one of the highest so their pay is higher.

So if a person works harder and make more money they should have to pay more taxes? HELL NO! I have always supported flat taxes...everyone paids the same percentage, that is the most fair way to do this. Yes, Yes some people are filthy rich it ain't fair etc. but those people work their ass off and are under very high stress, so they deserve their money so it is fair!

Being a pharmacist is hard? You must have been babied then.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I missed this post. Maybe this is just my situation since I took the non-trad route and got a 4 year bachelors and a masters before switching to 4 more years of pharm school. Did you factor in the opportunity costs of going to school for 4 extra years before determining that 60K a year after taxes is a "pretty darn good" salary? Or the work hours compared to working a more relaxed desk job for a slightly lower salary? I mean yeah it's not bad, maybe even "good", but it's not amazing by any means.

Maybe I'm just weird, but I don't really feel that excited to be making 50-60k, AND have a debt hovering over my head, when I'm 30. That's how much my friend's brother makes at that age (after taxes) and he only has a bachelors.

Then why did you do it? You knew what the going salary was when you went decided to go to pharmacy school. 100K gross is about 60K after taxes and requireds if we accept the math in this thread. We aren't talking about theoretical salary decreases here. We're talking about what pharmacist take home pay is at current salary levels. Those who incurred more opportunity cost to go to pharmacy school knew what they were getting themselves into and what they were giving up, didn't they? Are you saying that you should be paid more than others because your opportunity cost was greater?

EDIT: I don't know too many "relaxed desk jobs" that allow one to gross 100K.

 

[awval999]

~ how much is your total debt/interest rates if you don't mind me asking? it just feels like 120k total debt is going to drain closer to 2000-3000 a month if i want to pay it off at a decent rate :/. my interest rates are 6.5% and 8.5% btw.

The Staffords (6.8 or 7.9(few grad PLUS))=75K
The Key/AES (lower 3-4's)=25K
Perkins (5)=5-10K

The Staffords over 10 years, Key/AES (private) over 15, Perkins over 10.

Here's a quick loan amortization calculator.
http://www.mortgage101.com/amortization-calculator-home
To answer your question: 120K over 10 years at 6.8%=$1380/month.
Just put the loans on automatic direct debit and forget about them.

 

[Marcus X]

Graduate school= LOANS! so people that went to graduate school should make more money b/c they have loans.

And how does that make sense exactly?

You get paid, more or less (at least ideally), what the market decides you are worth. The loan money you borrow and the time you put in is an investment in your future. If the likely reward of that investment isn't high enough for you, don't make the bet. It's simple.

Simply because you went to school for a long time and borrowed a lot of money to do it doesn't entitle you to anything other than the right to practice your profession assuming you don't screw up and play by the rules.

Furthermore, there are a lot of jobs that are a lot harder and a lot more stressful than pharmacy. My girlfriend's dad is a welder. He does repairs on nuclear power plants. It's hard, dirty, unpleasant, and dangerous. The days are long (16 or more hours), and jobs can take months spent away from home. It's unpleasant to say the least.

How about moving sprinkler pipe for 10 hours a day in the 110 degree heat? That's a whole hell of a lot harder than standing in a pharmacy for 12 hours dealing with rude, selfish, sick people. And it pays quite a good bit less than $100,000 a year.

On top of that, I'd say that a lot of jobs are more important on a grand scheme. Say... teachers. We are, in a rather literal sense, trusting them with the future of our society and praying that they do a good job. Thankfully most of them love their jobs, so they put up with the crap they put them through and the relative pittance we pay them.

Seriously. You amuse me.

 

[Tinkerbell22]

I don't spend all of it of course, I was just trying to show that pharmacists only live paycheck to paycheck if they are awful with money. Its easy to spend money. Don't buy the Audi or BMW. Buy your jeans at Kohls. Don't buy a 500K house. Money problems solved.

Wow... maybe if the other half of the pharmacy kids felt the same, there wouldn't be so many threads titled "omg i just spent the better half of my 20's in school taking out loans to study and party with my classmates on the weekends so i deserve to drive a german and/or italian car, live in a mcmansion before i am 35, and sip margharitas on foreign beaches wearing ives st laurant swim googles"

geez... lol

 

[owlegrad]

Wow... maybe if the other half of the pharmacy kids felt the same, there wouldn't be so many threads titled "omg i just spent the better half of my 20's in school taking out loans to study and party with my classmates on the weekends so i deserve to drive a german and/or italian car, live in a mcmansion before i am 35, and sip margharitas on foreign beaches wearing ives st laurant swim googles"

geez... lol

+1

Why do "we" pretend that all our schooling is so hard? Most people would love the kind of freedom/lifestyle we students get to enjoy. Only the debt part truly sucks. 😉

 

[desklamp]

Then why did you do it? You knew what the going salary was when you went decided to go to pharmacy school. 100K gross is about 60K after taxes and requireds if we accept the math in this thread. We aren't talking about theoretical salary decreases here. We're talking about what pharmacist take home pay is at current salary levels. Those who incurred more opportunity cost to go to pharmacy school knew what they were getting themselves into and what they were giving up, didn't they? Are you saying that you should be paid more than others because your opportunity cost was greater?

EDIT: I don't know too many "relaxed desk jobs" that allow one to gross 100K.

Working as a manager in the pharmaceutical industry can net you 100K+ a year before tax. My dad is a director, and makes 200K or so, At least in california.

I did pharmacy because I wanted to take care of patients as an authority on some subject (as opposed to research or nursing or the industry) and medical school was no longer an option, to be completely honest. I do like pharmacology quite a bit as well. However it is almost impossible, i think, to know everything about the field before entering, and i've been becoming more and more disenchanted with how pharmacy has been progressing (possible salary cuts, lack of jobs due to the flood of new schools graduating new pharmacists...). When I decided to do pharmacy I was being told "oh it's great hours, you get amazing sign on bonuses, etc. but these sign on bonuses I found out later, were becoming non-existant. If I was totally convinced that our salaries would remain the same 5-6 years from now and that I would be guaranteed a job, like an M.D., then perhaps I'd be less whiny about the salary compensation of losing 6 extra years of my life (since apparently 2 years of residency is required now - yet another thing that changed about pharmacy) 🙂.

 

[desklamp]

Wow... maybe if the other half of the pharmacy kids felt the same, there wouldn't be so many threads titled "omg i just spent the better half of my 20's in school taking out loans to study and party with my classmates on the weekends so i deserve to drive a german and/or italian car, live in a mcmansion before i am 35, and sip margharitas on foreign beaches wearing ives st laurant swim googles"

geez... lol

that's not actually what my thread said, but good reading comprehension there. people have different standards as to what constitutes a good salary, or a good life, and people come from different backgrounds (non-trad, 6 year program) so they expect different things after graduation. it's not really that difficult of a concept to grasp. i thought pharmacists were supposed to be empathetic?

 

[type b pharmD]

Most Americans aren't in any kind of debt. Pharmacy students come out with 100K in student loans.

ROFL

average american has what.. $11,000 in credit card debt alone? also, there are things called mortgages, which the average person making the average us salary of like $20/hr has probably taken out a 300k mortgage

 

[zometa]

I mean student loans. Most people that only graduated from high school or went to only undergrad don't have any student loans. I didn't have any loans until I started pharmacy school. Graduate school= LOANS! so people that went to graduate school should make more money b/c they have loans.

I know everyone has a mortage to paid...that wasn't what I was refering to.

Originally Posted by SHC1984
"Most Americans aren't in any kind of debt. Pharmacy students come out with 100K in student loans"

*If you were meaning to say students with loans, then don't refer to "Most Americans", because most Americans are NOT studying to become pharmacists!

And again, your statement above regarding most people who finished undergrad don't have any student loans is another BIG generalization.

 

[zometa]

And how does that make sense exactly?

You get paid, more or less (at least ideally), what the market decides you are worth. The loan money you borrow and the time you put in is an investment in your future. If the likely reward of that investment isn't high enough for you, don't make the bet. It's simple.

Simply because you went to school for a long time and borrowed a lot of money to do it doesn't entitle you to anything other than the right to practice your profession assuming you don't screw up and play by the rules.

Furthermore, there are a lot of jobs that are a lot harder and a lot more stressful than pharmacy. My girlfriend's dad is a welder. He does repairs on nuclear power plants. It's hard, dirty, unpleasant, and dangerous. The days are long (16 or more hours), and jobs can take months spent away from home. It's unpleasant to say the least.

How about moving sprinkler pipe for 10 hours a day in the 110 degree heat? That's a whole hell of a lot harder than standing in a pharmacy for 12 hours dealing with rude, selfish, sick people. And it pays quite a good bit less than $100,000 a year.

On top of that, I'd say that a lot of jobs are more important on a grand scheme. Say... teachers. We are, in a rather literal sense, trusting them with the future of our society and praying that they do a good job. Thankfully most of them love their jobs, so they put up with the crap they put them through and the relative pittance we pay them.

Seriously. You amuse me.

Well said. 🙂 Thanks for the good read!

 

[KARM12]

Anyone who goes into pharmacy to "be rich" is an idiot. You will live comfortably and make more than the average American. That sounds pretty good to me and I am happy with my lifestyle. As awval said, you can still have a nice place to live, take nice trips, etc. Just be smart about it...no one needs to drive a BMW, no one needs to live in a 700k house.

 

[PharmaTope]

Wow, that is a good well thought out article and maybe should be posted in the pre-pharm section as well. A few differences is that we aren't required to do residency which helps out a lot. I could only imagine what the numbers would look like for a pharmacist that does a 2 year residency. And yes, I understand some people have a passion for clinical pharmacy and money isn't the only thing that makes people happy. I've always been the person that had the mindset that if I wanted to do residency, I should have just became a physician.

Your questioning about making 6 figures is right on. I predict for the next few years we will see salaries stagnant or decline slightly based on labour economics. This mainly has to do with the fact that the supply part will be increasing faster than demand. As a result, jobs will be harder to come by, people will stick with their job or company longer indicating signs of a saturated market. I honestly think market forces will take effect at some point.... Maybe when incomes drop below 100k and try to correct itself. Working conditions will get worse as we'll be asked to do more and if we can't there's the door.

So, is it worth it for the pre-pharm student? Not IMO. The amount of time and money spent on pharmacy only to graduate into an unemployment is just not convincing enough for me to spend 6-7 years and 200k on school. But lets assume you do get out making 120k as a single staff pharmacist in retail. You'll lay roughly 25k in federal tax, 6k to social security, 2k to Medicare, 5-7k to state tax, maybe 2k to local tax, 3k on health and dental ins, 10k to 401k, 0.5k on professional fees (licensing, malpractice, ce, subscriptions or memberships), 1k for disability, life ins, etc. Now your 120k is 65k. This all assumes you can get a job and salaries do not decrease. Take out student loan payments, car, rent/mortgage, and other Msc monthly bills and you're not left with much. Basically you work to pay the bills and maybe have some fun here and there.

actually IT IS ALREADY HERE!!! I seen it with my own eyes. they say you don't like it, take a walk. it is really pathetic. there is no profession in pharmacy. sure pharmacists and the schools want to obsess over a fresh ironed white coat, name tag, polished shoes, etc. they think that is professionalism when you are treated like a glorified secretary or glorified conveyor belt worker.

I always hate these threads.

Everyone says, "After taxes, 401k, blah, blah, blah, you're only left with $60,000, which is barely more than what the average high school teacher makes. It's like everyone forgets that high school teachers (as well as everyone else) have to pay all of those things as well (except, usually, obscene loan payments). The difference is that they're starting at $60,000 and subtracting from there. If you're taking home $60,000 after everything, that's pretty good, considering the median household income is about $55,000 gross.

median household also takes into account all those people living in freakin idaho and such.

listen YOU MUST take out the taxes and loans when considering the income. it is Median and easier to live off that elsewhere.

i dont know many households that get by on 55 GROSS.

BUT if their kids wanna go to college, they will get grant money. if you are a pharmacist, you will PAY FOR YOUR KIDS COLLEGE. everything basically equals out. just look at the way our country is going, everyone is an equal for the most part.

you qualify for tons more deductions with less money. pharmacy is a doctorate degree to be a higher blue collar worker.

consider this in pharmacy. it is saturated. you will not be able to find a job in the area you live. if you were in another profession, you could go to a number of different local companies without having to up your whole family to make AROUND 100k with the debt and such. i would say it isnt really worth it. keep the debt low and be able to take on other jobs.

 

[owlegrad]

i dont know many households that get by on 55 GROSS.

That is a statement that shows how out of touch you are with "the common man". My family makes no where near that. Most of my friends from high school - their families make less than that. Many, many, many households get by on less than that.

I take issue with some of the other stuff as well, but that statement really stood out to me. I am happy for you that most of the households you know are better off, but don't make it sound unusual to live off less than that - many do.

 

[PharmaTope]

That is a statement that shows how out of touch you are with "the common man". My family makes no where near that. Most of my friends from high school - their families make less than that. Many, many, many households get by on less than that.

I take issue with some of the other stuff as well, but that statement really stood out to me. I am happy for you that most of the households you know are better off, but don't make it sound unusual to live off less than that - many do.

no it shows that i live in an area that has an insane cost of living. those that do not make 55k get assistance to help with bills and other such.

living in remote areas you get by just fine on that. thank you though, you are a student living in an ideal world. start working and having to face bills and you will see things a lot differently.

 

[meister]

Who the hell would want to go to Med school to be a radiologist if they made as much as pediatricians?

Me. I'd be a little more worried about my $300k in loans than I am now, but I would definitely still do it.