Pharmacist Compensation

[PharmDBro2017]

Found this information on LinkedIn, it is very interesting. I did not create it, just reposting for awareness and to help our community with salary negotiation. Discuss below.

"Hello fellow pharmacists,

First of all, THANK YOU to everyone that has already taken the #PharmacistCompensation survey!

The ultimate goal of this project is to empower #pharmacists. This type of openness helps to decrease gender and racial pay gaps, improves working conditions, and more.

Below is the final update for December 2022.

The interactive Pharmacist Dashboard now represents data for:
1515+ Pharmacists
655+ Companies
350+ Job Titles (Including Supervisors, Managers, Directors, and VPs)
50 States in the US
15+ Areas of Pharmacy

Here are the ranges of Total Wages reported for Top 5 Areas of Pharmacy*:"

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[projektreverb]

All I’m seeing from this chart is I didn’t negotiate right. If those numbers are accurate. IF.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

All I’m seeing from this chart is I didn’t negotiate right. If those numbers are accurate. IF.

Most pharmacists are too agreeable when it comes to salary. Negotiation is expected these days.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

I contributed. If you do then they give you access to a lot more granular data. Definitely interesting and helped me a bit when I was negotiating my last raise.

 

[Dred Pirate]

those low numbers do not make sense- 50 or 60? if those are full time numbers - I assume part time, but wonder if that skews the data

 

[PharmDBro2017]

those low numbers do not make sense- 50 or 60? if those are full time numbers - I assume part time, but wonder if that skews the data

Could be they accidentally entered their hourly figure rather than annual numbers. Good point @Dred Pirate

 

[confettiflyer]

I contributed to this project, and I believe it to be accurate.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

Hard to make sense of these without knowing if reported salaries were base pay, total compensation, or adjusted for FTE that would skew the average

 

[gwarm01]

Y'all got any of them 248k informatics jobs?

 

[lord999]

Y'all got any of them 248k informatics jobs?

Yes, in your city, Harborview, there's one at that level. You know who he is. He's been in practice since JP Patches was on the air (hint on the photo in his office).

Some of these numbers for PBM seem rather low. Some of the VA ones are bogus, you can't possibly exceed the VP salary and you can't make less than the GS12 Floor ($73k) as a full time equivalent.

 

[RxPreceptor]

Hospital vs retail seems rather skewed. Survey possibly done with too many desperate new grads or offset by too many of these new work from home remote positions with pitiful pay

or maybe, just maybe, I’m getting too old for this retail ****

 

[Dred Pirate]

Hospital vs retail seems rather skewed. Survey possibly done with too many desperate new grads or offset by too many of these new work from home remote positions with pitiful pay

or maybe, just maybe, I’m getting too old for this retail ****

so crazy- when I graduated retail paid more than hospital, how I make $20 an hour more in hospital than any one I know in retail and I still have $8 an hour until I max out- hopefully when I hit that in a couple of years they will raise the ceiling,

 

[RxPreceptor]

Job listings in my area still favor retail over hospital in terms of pay…at least for full time and not counting remote positions or any of these sketchy sign on bonuses with absurd starting pay

 

[projektreverb]

Some of these numbers for PBM seem rather low.

Agreed

 

[mentos]

There numbers seem high. Were a lot of participants from CA? No one in say Tennessee is making this much.

Also $9600 for retail pharmacy manager? Huh?

 

[TheBlaah]

There numbers seem high. Were a lot of participants from CA? No one in say Tennessee is making this much.

Also $9600 for retail pharmacy manager? Huh?

Well, CA basically has like 15% of the population of the entire United States, so a good number probably come from CA regardless.

The website has an option to limit the data by state if you want, but it doesn't seem to give the option for average/median salary by state.

2022 Pharmacist Compensation Dashboard

 

[confettiflyer]

I looked at my entry in the data set and the compensation reported includes the overtime work I routinely do, so this is not a strict 40hr/week figure.

IIRC (memory hazy), when I filled it out, it asked for base/40hr week pay and then about average amount of annual overtime. It appears they combined the two.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

Also $9600 for retail pharmacy manager? Huh?

I know someone who made like $900/month to put her license down as SP for some medical device place. Required like 2 hours of work a week.

 

[Dred Pirate]

There numbers seem high. Were a lot of participants from CA? No one in say Tennessee is making this much.

Also $9600 for retail pharmacy manager? Huh?

that is the issue with surverys of these type - there are so many regional factors that play a role - and we obviously know $1 in cali or NYC is very different than a $1 in West Virginia.
I live in a MCOL area (towards the high end of medium) and the average salary for hospital staff rph is right in our mid point on the pay scale - but our average salary is less than mid point due to the fact we have a very young department on average

 

[297point1]

I would give these results more credence if each category listed the number of respondents. As the pharmacy owner line shows the same value for the low end and the high end of the range, it feels like that category has n=1 for respondents.

Nonetheless, it is useful; I thought I was making bank in my new role. Now I see that I might be making less than the average.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Allegedly, CVS pharmacists are getting a market adjustment upwards in a few weeks. Or so the rumor says.

I would be in favor of this.

 

[mentos]

Allegedly, CVS pharmacists are getting a market adjustment upwards in a few weeks. Or so the rumor says.

I would be in favor of this.

The entire company? Let us know how much.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Allegedly, CVS pharmacists are getting a market adjustment upwards in a few weeks. Or so the rumor says.

I would be in favor of this.

don't hold your breath- at my job they have been talking about market raises since pre-covid- just got the offical word about two weeks ago that we aren't getting any, but "managment is still committed to ensuring proper compensation for all employees" - 3 people have quit since then

 

[randompharm]

1500/350,000, COL not even accounted for. Majority of these are going to be in NY/Cali (where the poverty line is $97,000 lol), that’s if even the “self reported” numbers which are 0.003-0.005% of pharmacists are even truthfully reported. Nevermind OT being accounted into these, etc.

The fact remains, new pharmacy grads are getting 40-50/hr at 32 hours (70-80k/yr) in exchange for 6-10 years of schooling and 150-300k debt, when there are so many alternatives where even 2/4 year undergrad schools are pushing students right out of even community college degrees, earning more with little to no debt. And wait till loans resume, will become even more difficult to get hours when everyone flocks back due to the 20/hr job they took to get out of pharmacy not cutting it to pay back the 150-300k in loans.

Nice try, pharmacy school admissions.

 

[randompharm]

Allegedly, CVS pharmacists are getting a market adjustment upwards in a few weeks. Or so the rumor says.

I would be in favor of this.

This rumor’s been going around for a long time, it’s just to keep the wheels spinning, wouldn’t count on it (and it was going around even before their recent order to pay $5 Billion for the opioid crisis settlement, it’s even more unlikely to happen now).

 

[mentos]

1500/350,000, COL not even accounted for. Majority of these are going to be in NY/Cali (where the poverty line is $97,000 lol), that’s if even the “self reported” numbers which are 0.003-0.005% of pharmacists are even truthfully reported. Nevermind OT being accounted into these, etc.

The fact remains, new pharmacy grads are getting 40-50/hr at 32 hours (70-80k/yr) in exchange for 6-10 years of schooling and 150-300k debt, when there are so many alternatives where even 2/4 year undergrad schools are pushing students right out of even community college degrees, earning more with little to no debt. And wait till loans resume, will become even more difficult to get hours when everyone flocks back due to the 20/hr job they took to get out of pharmacy not cutting it to pay back the 150-300k in loans.

Nice try, pharmacy school admissions.

Yeah this list just sounds too good to be true. New grads in my area supposedly get 45-50/hr recently, 32 guaranteed hours. Job listings on indeed don't advertise salaries close to what this list says.

 

[randompharm]

Yeah this list just sounds too good to be true. New grads in my area supposedly get 45-50/hr recently, 32 guaranteed hours. Job listings on indeed don't advertise salaries close to what this list says.

Yep, so just around $80k. I’ve been wondering if they’ll keep them guaranteed and what kind of circus could entail once loans resume, but uncle Biden keeps pausing them so i guess we’ll have to wait.

 

[confettiflyer]

1500/350,000, COL not even accounted for. Majority of these are going to be in NY/Cali (where the poverty line is $97,000 lol), that’s if even the “self reported” numbers which are 0.003-0.005% of pharmacists are even truthfully reported. Nevermind OT being accounted into these, etc.

The fact remains, new pharmacy grads are getting 40-50/hr at 32 hours (70-80k/yr) in exchange for 6-10 years of schooling and 150-300k debt, when there are so many alternatives where even 2/4 year undergrad schools are pushing students right out of even community college degrees, earning more with little to no debt. And wait till loans resume, will become even more difficult to get hours when everyone flocks back due to the 20/hr job they took to get out of pharmacy not cutting it to pay back the 150-300k in loans.

Nice try, pharmacy school admissions.

The geographic distribution is in the dataset, CA is 11% of the submissions. I personally combed through most of the CA entries and validated them with a) what I know to be true (Kaiser, Sutter, Stanford, etc…) and b) mandated public salary disclosure database for state affiliated institutions (UCSF, et al) and the numbers are accurate.

Not sure about retail or the rest of the country, so cannot exclude your argument for that.

 

[MatCauthon]

Something has to shift in pharmacy reimbursements so that there be more staff and higher paid staff or the whole drug disbursement model will be shot. Even hospitals are struggling with the failures of retail pharmacies right now because people aren't getting their drugs in a timely way and getting readmitted to the hospital.

Retail techs and pharmacists are not getting paid enough for the stress they have to encounter. It is amazing any tech even works at retail, especially since hospitals are struggling with staffing issues too.

Retail pharmacies no longer make money filling most scripts and insurance quite often won't even pay a dispensing fee for immunizations.

It is expected many groceries and other chains are looking to downsize and even exit the pharmacy business completely due to low reimbursements and shady practices by PBMs.

Retail is definitely not the place to be, hopefully more options open for independents to fill the gaps.

 

[randompharm]

Something has to shift in pharmacy reimbursements so that there be more staff and higher paid staff or the whole drug disbursement model will be shot. Even hospitals are struggling with the failures of retail pharmacies right now because people aren't getting their drugs in a timely way and getting readmitted to the hospital.

Retail techs and pharmacists are not getting paid enough for the stress they have to encounter. It is amazing any tech even works at retail, especially since hospitals are struggling with staffing issues too.

Retail pharmacies no longer make money filling most scripts and insurance quite often won't even pay a dispensing fee for immunizations.

It is expected many groceries and other chains are looking to downsize and even exit the pharmacy business completely due to low reimbursements and shady practices by PBMs.

Retail is definitely not the place to be, hopefully more options open for independents to fill the gaps.

Agreed, but when 60-80% are in retail, there’s little choice, too many new grads (and pharmacists overall), and too much loans to walk away or do something else after 6-10 years of school (albeit some have walked temporarily but were helped by the loan pauses, else they could not afford to, and will be returning to the chains once loans resume).

 

[MatCauthon]

Loans don't matter anymore. they are fixed at 10% of discretionary income and forgiven after 20 years anyway. If they take a lower paying job in some other industry the loan payment scales down. Nobody is forced to stay in pharmacy anymore.

Chains are desperate right now, they are back to sign on bonuses in metro areas. People don't need to deal with that crap anymore. The tech situation is so deplorable right now that very few want to stay in retail. Dealing with abuse from both management and customers is a recipe for burnout

 

[PharmDminus]

Something has to shift in pharmacy reimbursements so that there be more staff and higher paid staff or the whole drug disbursement model will be shot. Even hospitals are struggling with the failures of retail pharmacies right now because people aren't getting their drugs in a timely way and getting readmitted to the hospital.

Retail techs and pharmacists are not getting paid enough for the stress they have to encounter. It is amazing any tech even works at retail, especially since hospitals are struggling with staffing issues too.

Retail pharmacies no longer make money filling most scripts and insurance quite often won't even pay a dispensing fee for immunizations.

It is expected many groceries and other chains are looking to downsize and even exit the pharmacy business completely due to low reimbursements and shady practices by PBMs.

Retail is definitely not the place to be, hopefully more options open for independents to fill the gaps.

couldnt agree more. i am predicting an eventual govt bailout of walgreens (too big to fail) and further down the line a change to a single payer system

 

[randompharm]

Loans don't matter anymore. they are fixed at 10% of discretionary income and forgiven after 20 years anyway. If they take a lower paying job in some other industry the loan payment scales down. Nobody is forced to stay in pharmacy anymore.

Chains are desperate right now, they are back to sign on bonuses in metro areas. People don't need to deal with that crap anymore. The tech situation is so deplorable right now that very few want to stay in retail. Dealing with abuse from both management and customers is a recipe for burnout

It’s 25 for graduate loans, 20 is for undergrad. Also, this guideline is for “federal” loans and is only under certain circumstances, the 200-300k incurred by many is not just federal, majority of that is private as well. For example, nearby schools (top 5 school included) only allows 100k for federal, anything else has to be additional by private loans, that can be anywhere from an additional 100-200k or more (some just go crazy).

I agree on the other stuff, they have been back to bonuses for some time and they are not biting (rightfully so), a CVS/Wags job is not worth it even with a 100k bonus (which is on terms of 2-3 years, if fired/you leave you have to repay it, along with other conditions).

 

[WVUPharm2007]

This rumor’s been going around for a long time, it’s just to keep the wheels spinning, wouldn’t count on it (and it was going around even before their recent order to pay $5 Billion for the opioid crisis settlement, it’s even more unlikely to happen now).

It sort of already happened last year. Salaries were shifted to the right. The max salary for Rx Manager went up to a bit over $82/hr. People that were red lined were no longer.

I guess we'll see, like you said.

 

[MatCauthon]

It’s 25 for graduate loans, 20 is for undergrad. Also, this guideline is for “federal” loans and is only under certain circumstances, the 200-300k incurred by many is not just federal, majority of that is private as well. For example, nearby schools (top 5 school included) only allows 100k for federal, anything else has to be additional by private loans, that can be anywhere from an additional 100-200k or more (some just go crazy).

I agree on the other stuff, they have been back to bonuses for some time and they are not biting (rightfully so), a CVS/Wags job is not worth it even with a 100k bonus (which is on terms of 2-3 years, if fired/you leave you have to repay it, along with other conditions).

Interesting about the 25 years , I thought it was 20 years. I have been doing the 10 year PSLF, which is basically a joke now that no one is paying their loans anyway with the pandemic freeze.

Grad Plus loans can be taken out for amounts above the max of the other federal loan limits. I know these can be consolidated into IBR and there is no loan amount limits. Are people still taking out private loans even with all these government options?

 

[owlegrad]

Are people still taking out private loans even with all these government options?

The short answer is yes, but not very many. I had the statistics for this for an article I was writing. I don’t have them handy but the vast majority are public loans.

 

[confettiflyer]

Also, this guideline is for “federal” loans and is only under certain circumstances, the 200-300k incurred by many is not just federal, majority of that is private as well. For example, nearby schools (top 5 school included) only allows 100k for federal, anything else has to be additional by private loans, that can be anywhere from an additional 100-200k or more (some just go crazy).

This doesn’t sound correct. Most current students I’ve talked to are 100% federal due to the lack of an aggregate loan limit for GradPlus (the program one would use to go above standard federal limits on Direct).

 

[GrandTheftAutumn]

I'm a bit surprised that retail has a job satisfaction score of 5.78/20 and hospice has the lowest score at 5/10.
CVS retail has 4.79 and home health/infusion 3 while Walgreens retail has 4.97 and compound 3.
Home health infusion and compound might be a sampling error but what makes hospice so bad that it's lower than retail?
Or is this a sampling error as well?

 

[GrandTheftAutumn]

Retail techs and pharmacists are not getting paid enough for the stress they have to encounter. It is amazing any tech even works at retail, especially since hospitals are struggling with staffing issues too.

I took a pay cut to work for non-retail pharmacy job and no amount of money can make me wanna go back there

Dealing with abuse from both management and customers is a recipe for burnout

Unless they fix this, but the thirst for profit is never quenched and Karens will be Karens.

 

[BenJammin]

Something has to shift in pharmacy reimbursements so that there be more staff and higher paid staff or the whole drug disbursement model will be shot. Even hospitals are struggling with the failures of retail pharmacies right now because people aren't getting their drugs in a timely way and getting readmitted to the hospital.

Retail techs and pharmacists are not getting paid enough for the stress they have to encounter. It is amazing any tech even works at retail, especially since hospitals are struggling with staffing issues too.

Retail pharmacies no longer make money filling most scripts and insurance quite often won't even pay a dispensing fee for immunizations.

It is expected many groceries and other chains are looking to downsize and even exit the pharmacy business completely due to low reimbursements and shady practices by PBMs.

Retail is definitely not the place to be, hopefully more options open for independents to fill the gaps.

Agree with most of this. I have to wonder where this sentiment comes from that drug reimbursement changes are on the horizon. Why is that the case? Payments to the retail pharmacy model have been on a steady decline for a while now. It also doesn't help that the monsters at NCPA and APhA have been pushing for "fee for value" as the future model of community pharmacy. That has put independent pharmacies, especially rural ones, on the path of bankruptcy. Look at rural areas of America where the absence of their independent pharmacy would delay prescription services by hours to days. You don't think there's existing value in not having a patient drive a few hours for their maintenance meds? Now we have these off shoot groups like CPESN trying to convince payors to pay them for "enhanced services". These people are talking from both sides of their mouth. You can't talk **** about PBMs only to get on your knees and beg them pleeeeease pay us more we have value.

Unless we move to a single payer system this will be our destiny. Pharmacy deserts. Hours waiting at the pharmacy. Pharmacies staffed with 1 pharmacist and 1 technician. No pay raise for any employees. Mandatory counseling. Mandatory enhanced services. Pharmacists will be asked to do more for less. Pharmacist union will either be illegal or unpopular due to public sentiment.

It just blows my mind how stupid our leadership is within the industry. NCPA and APhA are clueless.

 

[Gombrich12]

Loans don't matter anymore. they are fixed at 10% of discretionary income and forgiven after 20 years anyway. If they take a lower paying job in some other industry the loan payment scales down. Nobody is forced to stay in pharmacy anymore.

I think the covid student loan pause and the dream of working from home are the biggest causes of people saying goodbye to pharmacy. It's a beautiful thing. Anyone working in a retail pharmacy is being abused in some way and it took the pandemic for many to realize it.

 

[randompharm]

This doesn’t sound correct. Most current students I’ve talked to are 100% federal due to the lack of an aggregate loan limit for GradPlus (the program one would use to go above standard federal limits on Direct).

Can’t speak for elsewhere but this is how it is in the nearby schools (top 5 as well). I’ve personally seen the process for applying for the loans and discussed it with students on multiple occasions.

 

[randompharm]

I think the covid student loan pause and the dream of working from home are the biggest causes of people saying goodbye to pharmacy. It's a beautiful thing. Anyone working in a retail pharmacy is being abused in some way and it took the pandemic for many to realize it.

Yeah, once you do WFH (especially if you’re someone who likes that), you’ll never want to do in office again. Even non WFH supporters have difficulty considering traditional jobs after that.

 

[projektreverb]

Yeah, once you do WFH (especially if you’re someone who likes that), you’ll never want to do in office again. Even non WFH supporters have difficulty considering traditional jobs after that.

The concept of WFH weirded me out. I couldn’t even swallow the idea. I just past my second anniversary of WFH and my mindset totally flipped. I can’t see myself going back to an office.

 

[Dred Pirate]

The concept of WFH weirded me out. I couldn’t even swallow the idea. I just past my second anniversary of WFH and my mindset totally flipped. I can’t see myself going back to an office.

this is the debate I have when I see some jobs (MSL, etc) - I am a very social person, and I wonder if I would go crazy not being able to talk to people in person. Once or twice a week would be perfect thou

 

[DoctorRx1986]

I’ve been WFH for almost a year now since April 2022 and while my job is very cushy in a patient consultation role for Cigna/ESI, I do have to admit I am now coming to face the reality it is a lonely experience. I worked for WAGs for nearly a decade and I miss the social camaraderie working with techs and other rphs . WFH has its perks - I can shower or eat during my lunch break, work in my pajamas, and the stress is far less than retail - but there is 0 social interaction . Pay is about 10% less than retail in the low $50s per hour but worth it . The only way I’d ever go back to a traditional job would be a non-retail position with good hours and making $60+ an hour with low stress - that’s it; otherwise I’ll stay home .

 

[projektreverb]

this is the debate I have when I see some jobs (MSL, etc) - I am a very social person, and I wonder if I would go crazy not being able to talk to people in person. Once or twice a week would be perfect thou

I said the same thing before I left. Now I won’t go back.

 

[mentos]

I’ve been WFH for almost a year now since April 2022 and while my job is very cushy in a patient consultation role for Cigna/ESI, I do have to admit I am now coming to face the reality it is a lonely experience. I worked for WAGs for nearly a decade and I miss the social camaraderie working with techs and other rphs . WFH has its perks - I can shower or eat during my lunch break, work in my pajamas, and the stress is far less than retail - but there is 0 social interaction . Pay is about 10% less than retail in the low $50s per hour but worth it . The only way I’d ever go back to a traditional job would be a non-retail position with good hours and making $60+ an hour with low stress - that’s it; otherwise I’ll stay home .

That sounds ideal to me. I hate talking to coworkers.

 

[RXDOC1986]

I don't put in much stock on any research/data on salaries and hourly compensation
Salaries and pay scales are absolutely baffling. Having been around this pharmacy business for over 40 years, my personal experience has been:

chit·show
[ˈ****ˌSHō]

NOUN
chit show (noun)

1. a situation or event marked by chaos or controversy.
   
   you can easily work at a large hospital pharmacy, with 40 R.Ph's making 40 different hourly payrates. With employees highly discouraged from discussing salaries and raises.
   
   
   
   most of the pharmacy hiring, this decade, has been us (the pharmacist) negotiating from a weakened position. Too many applicants, not enough quality jobs.
   HR is running the show now, telling managers who they can hire and how much to pay. Managers won't even see your resume, if it doesn't make it through the HR metrics resume calculator. Managers have zero input on payrate and raises. During my last hire, a year ago, I had some valuable insight to BigBoy HR tactics. This hospital system has 20 hospitals and 30,000 employees. You just cannot imagine allowing those 20 pharmacy managers to negotiate payrates for 100's of pharmacist. I had a suprisingly forthcoming conversations with this HR lady about their hiring practices. The important factor was, I was coming from a position of strength, not really having to switch jobs. The HR has a very specific formula for hourly pay, tied into years of relative experience. She shared with me, how a new grad would get less than 1/2 my pay, for the exact entry level job I was getting.
   
   Here are some interesting facts about Pharmacist Compensation, and please don't poo poo on my thread, this is my experience and not charts and data you clicked on the internet.
   I graduated with a Pharm.D., then PGY-1 BCNSP, in 1986. I was working at the VA as a tech, they offered me $29,000/year as a GS-9. Needed money (should have stayed with VA), so took a retail job paying $39,000/year, which was good money then. Quickly got a job, through contacts (yes it's who you know) and was suddenly manager/PIC at home infusion company. Salary UPd to $70,000. Internet search:
   
   Value of $70,000 from 1988 to 2023
   $70,000 in 1988 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $177,023.67 today, an increase of $107,023.67 over 35 years. The dollar had an average inflation rate of 2.69% per year between 1988 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 152.89%.
   
   Now I make a little more money, after 37 years. Now days, you are lucky to even get a job. A sad fact. The whole thing is still a chit show. So happy to be retiring in 5 years.