Pharmacist Salary Thread

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Passion4Sci said:
No, salaries will NOT decrease. Fewer jobs may be available, though.
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How so? More people will be part of the healthcare system hence we need more pharmacists/docs on hand.
 
Well, think of it this way. Tech hours and pharmacist hours have been slashed as a result of the Great Recession, yet pt. care has more or less stayed the same (at least where I am) or gone down slightly. Even still, the pt's will put up with loner waits, poorer service, etc because their medications are not opportunity costs. They cannot throw up their hands and say forget it, I'm going to Sears if OSH is taking too long, you know? There's no quick competitor. If the wait @ Rite-Aid is 47 minutes and the wait @ Wag's is 44 minutes, and each offer the same horrible service, what will they do? Tolerate it.

The corporations know that.And hospital boards are corporations, in a sense, with a board of directors, a CEO, a COO, etc. They're not dumb. they know they can get away with minimum staffing and still get the job done, for less money. The great Recession has proved that.

So, add 15% or more patients to the mix. They diffuse, from high concentration to low, and the selectively permeable membrane is [x] pharmacy. Who cares? The hospital won't rush out and hire 2 more pharmacists to handle it, they'll just tell the pt to wait longer. Don't like it? Well, go to Wal-Mart, where the wait is.. oh just kidding, it's equally horrible.

That's just one way it can go, and I didn't say it WOULD happen, because I'm not a psychic. But I can say unequivocally that unless basic economic principles are wrong, salaries will not drop.

Artful Dodger said:
How so? More people will be part of the healthcare system hence we need more pharmacists/docs on hand.
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Passion4Sci said:
But I can say unequivocally that unless basic economic principles are wrong, salaries will not drop.
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I agree with you there, but therein lies the great unknown about healthcare reform. If the government goes from being the 500lb gorilla in the room to the 1500lb gorilla in the room with a public option and/or growth of Medicare, the "market" is going to be predominantly artificially dictated by regulations, government reimbursement rates, etc. So free market economic theory goes out the window at that point because there is no "free" market --- there is only what the government says there should be, dictated by what it will pay for.

The easiest place to exert downward pressure on prices is at the provider level (note that is one of the major places Congress is talking about reigning in costs -- provider reimbursements).

I believe what other posters are probably referencing in terms of saying that if universal care passes, salaries will go down is the fact that in other countries providers make far less than they do here (Japan, UK, etc). Whether that would happen here of course remains to be seen, however with Congress wanting to slash reimbursement rates as their little budget panacea, I can't blame providers for being scared about it.

(Course I am just sitting here waiting for Japan to start selling off our short-term bonds and China's demographics to catch up with them in ~20 years ... talk about inflation. So long-term, I think any "entitlement" programs are moot, because IMO we are gonna be up to our eyeballs in inflation,and looking around saying "But but we're supposed to be the RICHEST country in the world!!! You mean ... you mean that was just DEBT?!?! But we iz sooooo specialz, that cannot be!!!")
 
shc1984 said:
if it was a single payer system pharmacist salaries will go down. I mean if everyone uses government insurance and governement insurance pays for all the prescriptions (meaning no cash paying patients) then the government can simply choose to reimbursement whatever amount to pharmacies that he wishes. If a prescription cost $200 dollars and everything is under that one gov insurance...who says the insurance company can't just pay you $50 dollars for it? And if they only pay you $50 dollars for that $200 dollar item what can you do about it? It's how everyone is paying so you can't do anything.

Cash paying patients are the best b/c they insure pharmacies make the most money. Insurance reimburements are super low...and government insurance reimburements are even lower. 👎

ps. Obama sucks. You can blame him for all this mess. Lol...
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agree 100,000,000%
 
Jetninjin said:
I agree with you there, but therein lies the great unknown about healthcare reform. If the government goes from being the 500lb gorilla in the room to the 1500lb gorilla in the room with a public option and/or growth of Medicare, the "market" is going to be predominantly artificially dictated by regulations, government reimbursement rates, etc. So free market economic theory goes out the window at that point because there is no "free" market --- there is only what the government says there should be, dictated by what it will pay for.

The easiest place to exert downward pressure on prices is at the provider level (note that is one of the major places Congress is talking about reigning in costs -- provider reimbursements).

I believe what other posters are probably referencing in terms of saying that if universal care passes, salaries will go down is the fact that in other countries providers make far less than they do here (Japan, UK, etc). Whether that would happen here of course remains to be seen, however with Congress wanting to slash reimbursement rates as their little budget panacea, I can't blame providers for being scared about it.

(Course I am just sitting here waiting for Japan to start selling off our short-term bonds and China's demographics to catch up with them in ~20 years ... talk about inflation. So long-term, I think any "entitlement" programs are moot, because IMO we are gonna be up to our eyeballs in inflation,and looking around saying "But but we're supposed to be the RICHEST country in the world!!! You mean ... you mean that was just DEBT?!?! But we iz sooooo specialz, that cannot be!!!")
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Yep, and that's really scary. Although I think it'd be great for the United States of Entitlement to get a gut check.

The only thing I can point out though is that pharmacists (for example) in the UK and Japan have always made lower wages, historically, thus there is a precedent for that. I don't think that's comparable in the U.S., barring, like you said, China selling off any portion of its some-800 trillion in t-bills?

The future is scary. Although I think I'm more concerned, given my military experience, about Iran's testing of the short-range missiles capable of delivering tactical nuclear warheads to Israel. That would be such an enormous mess...
 
c5212 said:
agree 100,000,000%
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He is the WORST president in history and did not deserve that inaugration or anything for that matter.:laugh: If he cares so much about the "poor" why did he feel the need to spend millions on a inaugration to "brag" about himself??? He could have easily donated all the tax dollars (YOUR money) that he spent on HIS inaugration to "show off" and all the tax dollars that he uses everyday on luxury items for himself to the poor people that he wanted to "help" so badly! He is the biggest hypocrite and he is a fake, self-centered, ahole.

If I was in med school like you I will try my very best to bust my a** and get into a cosmetic surgery residency. If you are doing primary care and Obama's healthcare reform passes?? you will properly end up making 20K a year working 7 days a week. Its not going to be pretty...primary care physicans are going to be hit the hardest. 🙁
 
Last edited:
you will properly end up making 20K a year working 7 days a week. Its not going to be pretty...primary care physicans are going to be hit the hardest.
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Again, salaries will not decrease.

This is economic principle steeped in hundreds of years in various economies, not just the American "free system." I recommend reading some Menger and putting your thinking cap on. You did take Econ, right?

More sky is falling crap, blah, blah, blah.
 
This thread reminds me of a realization I made at a open house last week - a lot of pharmacy applicants are not very bright. Don't worry about a salary you may never enjoy.
 
SHC1984 said:
He is the WORST president in history and did not deserve that inaugration or anything for that matter.:laugh: If he cares so much about the "poor" why did he feel the need to spend millions on a inaugration to "brag" about himself??? He could have easily donated all the tax dollars (YOUR money) that he spent on HIS inaugration to "show off" and all the tax dollars that he uses everyday on luxury items for himself to the poor people that he wanted to "help" so badly! He is the biggest hypocrite and he is a fake, self-centered, ahole.

If I was in med school like you I will try my very best to bust my a** and get into a cosmetic surgery residency. If you are doing primary care and Obama's healthcare reform passes?? you will properly end up making 20K a year working 7 days a week. Its not going to be pretty...primary care physicans are going to be hit the hardest. 🙁
Click to expand...

If anyone else had posted this, I would think it to be sarcasm. Do some research, please.
 
fenderbiz said:
If anyone else had posted this, I would think it to be sarcasm. Do some research, please.
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Healthcare reform sucks and Obama sucks even more THE END. NO research needed. :laugh:
 
This reminds me, for some reason, of a dinner that I had at an Olive Garden a few months ago.

We sat next to a girl, apparently on a date, who felt compelled to tell him her entire life story, complete with goals and dreams. This wouldn't have bothered me except the entire like time she was like omg like talking about how like she cared like so much about like going to like medical school and lmao like she couldn't frickin wait to like open her own clinic and like and get like the cutest little kids like ever to like fix their like congenital defects (NOT the words she used), and like omg.

Point is... a lot of folks in this world don't come off to be the brightest crayons in the box... I just hope she doesn't talk like that to that adcom.

First impressions can be decieving... I know I am a lot more loose with my grammar and pronounciation when I am with friends... but wow, some people I just wonder about. lol





yappy said:
This thread reminds me of a realization I made at a open house last week - a lot of pharmacy applicants are not very bright. Don’t worry about a salary you may never enjoy.
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Passion4Sci said:
Private insurance companies will compete anyway, even under the "reformed" system! There will simply be a gov't option. I do not believe the gov't option will bankrupt insurance companies. You can rest assured folks running Anthem Blue Cross aren't quaking in their boots... This is NOT a single payer system.
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This is true. Private insurance companies would do just fine.
It's similar to the postal system. There USPS which is the national mail system, but there are still private companies such as UPS and FedEx.
 
silver tea said:
This is true. Private insurance companies would do just fine.
It's similar to the postal system. There USPS which is the national mail system, but there are still private companies such as UPS and FedEx.
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You're not looking at this the right way. There are 1000s of private health insurance companies, how many postal services are there? Like 3? True, private health insurance won't completely die down, but they'll diminish in numbers tremendously, meaning lots and LOTS of people losing their jobs!
 
silver tea said:
This is true. Private insurance companies would do just fine.
It's similar to the postal system. There USPS which is the national mail system, but there are still private companies such as UPS and FedEx.
Click to expand...

i remember reading that private insurance companies wont be able to insure new patients. if this happens then all of them are screwed. the helth care reform is explained in a 1000+ page report, so i suggest going on google and find summaries of it.
 
pharmRxn said:
i remember reading that private insurance companies wont be able to insure new patients. if this happens then all of them are screwed. the helth care reform is explained in a 1000+ page report, so i suggest going on google and find summaries of it.
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I have read through most of it and there isn't anything in the verbiage of prohibiting a company like, say, Blue Cross Anthem from taking on a "new patient" - For example, if I am 23 years old and on my parents' insurance plan, and for whatever reason am no longer covered, your hypothesis is that I couldn't call up Blue Cross and be like, "Hey yo, I need insurance"? They'll say, "Nope, sorry, gotta go to Obamacare!'?

Really?

Because that pretty much sounds crazy.
 
Passion4Sci said:
I have read through most of it and there isn't anything in the verbiage of prohibiting a company like, say, Blue Cross Anthem from taking on a "new patient" - For example, if I am 23 years old and on my parents' insurance plan, and for whatever reason am no longer covered, your hypothesis is that I couldn't call up Blue Cross and be like, "Hey yo, I need insurance"? They'll say, "Nope, sorry, gotta go to Obamacare!'?

Really?

Because that pretty much sounds crazy.
Click to expand...

I believe he's saying they can't insure new patients because they can't compete with the government's prices...in other words, patients wouldn't choose them.
 
desler said:
I believe he's saying they can't insure new patients because they can't compete with the government's prices...in other words, patients wouldn't choose them.
Click to expand...

Which means .... for them to stay in business, they need to lower their prices, or get out of the game.

Nothing wrong with that.

Health insurance shouldn't be a privilege saved only for the rich upper class. If you don't believe in the need for a national health reform, then either you are ignorant or (too) privileged or both. I have a family friend whose son recently got into a horrible accident. He needed head surgery - although I don't know any of the details outside of this. All I know is he doesn't have health insurance because his family is too poor to afford it at the moment, and now, they will probably have heaps upon heaps of expensive medical bills they can't even fathom paying for at the moment. And yet ... what were they supposed to do? Refuse medical treatment cuz they can't afford it?
 
PharmDream10 said:
Here's a job opening for a pharmacist. The same place was paying way more than this 6 months ago. Now starting salary is $29.75; located in central Illinois. I don't believe it is an intern or residency position either.

https://www.healthcaresource.com/os...ls&template=dsp_job_details.cfm&cJobId=277160
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That's really low. They pay their interns $11, however I think this is a hospital that is some how involved with some sort of Christian organization. That may have an effect. It's also important to look at the benifits/type of location.

Here are two more jobs from illinois,

http://www.ridgemontresources.com/jobseeker/sSetup.asp?runsearch=1&spJobAdId=01693497

http://pharm.associationcareernetwo...=5b7eff37-90b6-4694-8d4e-134f3a6f7ad5&stats=y
 
Passion4Sci said:
I guess I am fortunate in that my pharmacy is on the 3d floor.
Click to expand...

The pharmacy I volunteer at is on the 2nd floor and it's pretty awesome up there; I love it. lol

We are both in large metro areas if I'm not mistaken so maybe that's why.
 
Vitamin K said:
Don't be so quick to assume that people only go into retail for the money. I happen to love retail for the patient interaction that I get every day. When I was in the hospital, I came home depressed most days and lost sleep over the tragedies that I saw there. I never got to know a single patient because most of them either went home quickly or passed away. That's not what I want for myself. I feel like I make a big impact for my patients, and I can do it just as easily in a retail pharmacy. It's not about the money for me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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I couldn't get a tech OR clerk job in retail (probably because I live in south Florida) so I volunteer at a hospital. I love it, but it is pretty depressing. It's a really large children's hospital (if you know FL you can probably guess which one I'm sure) so that kind of makes it more sad, but other than that I like it.

I'm not going to get into details for obvious HIPAA reasons, but this hospital pretty much takes the most severe pediatric cases... so sometimes you hear about or see really sad stuff... Plus there is basically no patient contact from what I see which I think I would miss. I believe everything you guys are saying about retail, but I sort of like the challenge of dealing with rude people. lol I don't know why, call me crazy. I'm not saying definitively that I would choose retail after graduating (let me just get into pharmacy school first 😀), but I do think I would enjoy it, the job, not the extra money. lol
 
MountainPharmD said:
This is why I went into retail. I did not become a pharmacist to sit in the basement of a hospital and do order entry for 8 hours straight. It is great to be able to interact with patients on a daily basis. It is a good feeling to have people call and only want to talk to you because they trust you. At my pharmacy we counsel every single patient on every single new prescription. My techs do not just ask people if they have any questions. The tech sends them to the counsel window and we go over and ask them if they have any questions.

However, the CVSs and Walgreens of the world have all but destroyed the profession of pharmacy. Counseling is the butt of jokes at the aforementioned pharmacies. There is hardly time to breathe let alone counsel anyone. People go to CVS or Walgreens because it is convenient not because of the service they get. Ask anyone you know who gets prescriptions filled at CVS or Walgreens if they know their pharmacists name. I bet 90% will not know. It is sad because the poor policies and flawed business models of these two chains are starting to filter down to the rest of the retail chains. Retail pharmacy is truly going to ****. My hours and budget have been slashed so much it is getting to the CVS/Walgreens point. The point where I do not even have time to safely fill prescriptions let alone do anything else.

It is sad and I am getting out while I still can. Hospital pharmacy may not be my dream job but it beats the hell out of what retail pharmacy has become. I can sit in the basement and do order entry all day, no problem. In my opinion if you do not get out of retail pharmacy soon you will be stuck.
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In Ft. Laud FL i'm making 56.25 an hour at a salary of 117k. I would love to be counseling medications for every patient, but with the mass hour cuts due to power, it is literally impossible. Stores I float at do ~800 a day and with 2 techs it's chaos all day. I don't even have time to make all the Dr calls I need let alone be counseling people. It's a shame it's been reduced to this, but walgreens certainly seems to be turning into a "get in get out" mentality regarding customer service.
 
Vitamin K said:
Don't be so quick to assume that people only go into retail for the money. I happen to love retail for the patient interaction that I get every day. When I was in the hospital, I came home depressed most days and lost sleep over the tragedies that I saw there. I never got to know a single patient because most of them either went home quickly or passed away. That's not what I want for myself. I feel like I make a big impact for my patients, and I can do it just as easily in a retail pharmacy. It's not about the money for me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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vit K,
There is nothing wrong for people go into for money. They earn every single dime they deserve since they went thru school, training, get their license, get into debt from student loans. You should not feel depressed because you don't know the whole picture/situation that those patients were in even you were a clinical pharmacist on the unit. There are different factors that causing what happen to these patients.
 
gdo0001 said:
Yea screw government regulated health care! After all, pharmacists get no money from medicare. /s

Sure, let's get rid of that and see pharmacist salaries go down for real.

If anything, a public option would let everyone have insurance which would ensure a steady income for pharmacists.
Click to expand...
The more people that can afford healthcare , the more money for the people working in the industry
 
fenderbiz said:
That's too bad for them. They chose a disgusting career.
Click to expand...

So how the **** is the grunt working in a private health insurance company any different from the grunt working in a government run health insurance company? One isn't furthering your ideals? People on the internet never piss me off, but damn, you're a self-righteous *****.
 
The biggest problem pharmacists will face is availability of jobs, as there is the move towards consolidation of jobs.

The next issue is the reverse case of what existed in the past, with respect to job availability and income will take place. It will be competitive and unless one wants to move to an underserved area,they're going to be pretty flat, and on top of that, the raises will not take into account increased costs of living. That will likely be the biggest one, and on top of that, worsening work conditions.
 
slight365 said:
The biggest problem pharmacists will face is availability of jobs, as there is the move towards consolidation of jobs.

The next issue is the reverse case of what existed in the past, with respect to job availability and income will take place. It will be competitive and unless one wants to move to an underserved area,they're going to be pretty flat, and on top of that, the raises will not take into account increased costs of living. That will likely be the biggest one, and on top of that, worsening work conditions.
Click to expand...

Will this start BEFORE or AFTER 2013? lol...
 
I would like to inject some ... potential optimism into this conversation. One thing that I have observed while researching the field of pharmacy is that, like medicine, it is expanding in complexity and becoming increasingly technical/specialized. One wonders if this might tilt the scales in favor of the pharmacist? If nothing else, the above posts are a reminder to learn everything possible while in school and on rotations.
 
Hello Everyone,

I read a few posts regarding pharmacist starting salary, but i didn't see the answer that i was looking for. i'm hoping you all can help me out.

Please list the starting salary for a newly graduated pharmacist who has a valid license at different retail store and WHERE.... such as State

1. walgreens
2. CVS
3. Rite Aid
4. Target
5. Walmart
6. etc and etc.....

please provide me a number with your best knowledge...(if you don't know any retail starting salary, then please skip 🙂 )

thanks a bunch
tofu
 
misstofu said:
Hello Everyone,

I read a few posts regarding pharmacist starting salary, but i didn't see the answer that i was looking for. i'm hoping you all can help me out.

Please list the starting salary for a newly graduated pharmacist who has a valid license at different retail store and WHERE.... such as State

1. walgreens
2. CVS
3. Rite Aid
4. Target
5. Walmart
6. etc and etc.....

please provide me a number with your best knowledge...(if you don't know any retail starting salary, then please skip 🙂 )

thanks a bunch
tofu
Click to expand...

A few quick things: It's really going to depend on individual markets. I doubt that a Wag's pharmacist makes the same wage nationwide. You also have to take benefits into account as well, which can sometimes be negotiated. Finally, I think that your post might be better placed in the general "Pharmacy" board, not in Residencies/Fellowships. 🙂
 
I know Walgreens adjusts due to cost of living and need for a pharmacist in a particular region. I am certain all the other chains do the same thing.
 
I've heard that Walgreens has the best benefits overall, but you're also their bitch 🙂
 
They may drop if you are getting paid by the government instead of the private sector and given who is in office right now... there may be some form of salary decrease as time goes on.
 
atpsynthase said:
They may drop if you are getting paid by the government instead of the private sector and given who is in office right now... there may be some form of salary decrease as time goes on.
Click to expand...

OK, a problem with your theory is that there are currently pharmacists being employed right now as we speak by the gubment and they don't make a pittance. Right now there's a listing on USAJobs (A job service listing thing for veterans that I frequent to check our various sectors) offering a full-time position to a staff pharmacist and the compensation is over six-figures.

Government employee does not immediately equate to a poor salary. A government employee with no education does, though, or with less-than-useful education (Like me, with a Bachelor level education, would be screwed by Uncle Sam). But look at federal agents. Sure, they don't make 130 grand a year all the time, but their salaries are very nice especially for the lack of education required in the KSA for the job.

I find your stance extremely simplistic and to be flavored with a heavy dose of right wing bull$h!t seasoning.
 
How clever of you to use symbols instead of letters in your curse words! My point was merely that the state of the health system in relation to the government NOW (which you have indicated in your condescending post is doing fine in the salary department) is different than the direction that the government is taking the health system in the near future. No need to read too far into things. Additionally, a few things to note: nowhere did I say a government job DOES equate to a lower salary... I said it MAY. I didn't say that there WILL be a salary decrease in the future, I said that due to the changes occurring in the health care system because of the government, there MAY be a salary decrease.
 
atpsynthase said:
How clever of you to use symbols instead of letters in your curse words! My point was merely that the state of the health system in relation to the government NOW (which you have indicated in your condescending post is doing fine in the salary department) is different than the direction that the government is taking the health system in the near future. No need to read too far into things. Additionally, a few things to note: nowhere did I say a government job DOES equate to a lower salary... I said it MAY. I didn't say that there WILL be a salary decrease in the future, I said that due to the changes occurring in the health care system because of the government, there MAY be a salary decrease.
Click to expand...

Nice, and in doing so, you completely contradict economic theories which are accepted as near-law by the economics community, with such proponents as Carl Menger.

And you're calling me condescending? Who the hell do you think you are if you can stand up to an economics genius like Menger and call him wrong?

OK bud. Did you get a C in Macro?

It's so cute when you right wing *****s get a bug up your ass.
 
I'm just not sure you have to be so rude about it. I gave my opinion, which is all. It didn't hurt you in any way, why do you need to be so condescending? Does it make you happy?
 
atpsynthase said:
I'm just not sure you have to be so rude about it. I gave my opinion, which is all. It didn't hurt you in any way, why do you need to be so condescending? Does it make you happy?
Click to expand...

Educating the meekly learned does, indeed, bring me marginal satisfaction.

If this seems rude to you, you have a very thin skin. Home schooled?
 
You insult my education and my intelligence in nearly every sentence? I shouldn't be offended by that?
 
atpsynthase said:
You insult my education and my intelligence in nearly every sentence? I shouldn't be offended by that?
Click to expand...

If your opinion was valid (as in not completely contradicting things you should've learned in Econ) and I "insulted" you, then I'm in the wrong.

If it is my opinion that contradicts all current theory and law, such as the opinion that the sky is not blue but rather it is green, then I should expect to be corrected.

I do not think my initial post in reply to you was at all offensive. Maybe there is a disconnect between the world I come from and where you're currently sitting and if so I apologize, but thinking that is offensive speaks to a larger problem that I am starting to see more and more (Oh my GOD he yelled at me and called me stupid! Time to cry!).
 
SHC1984 said:
He is the WORST president in history
Click to expand...

Ever?

Warren Harding? Teapot Dome scandal...dude used to keep children in his office closet...made Bush look like a master linguist.

Oh. Right. American history started sometime in the 1980s...

-------


And y'all need to chill the hell out. There have been worse surpluses in the profession than we will face in the near future. Using history as a guide, salaries will just stagnate at worst.
 
Passion4Sci said:
A cunning linguist, Mikey...

Cunning. Linguist.
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I have one of those shirts. Steve & Barry's. How I miss, thee...they clothed me through being a poor college bum. Now I shop at ****ing TJ Maxx. And drive a Taurus. And live in a single-wide trailer.

I'm still cheap as hell. WTF is wrong with me.

I'm going to go buy a Prada shirt or some ****.
 
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