Pharmacist vs PA

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KB830

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I've wanted to go into pharmacy, and started to have cold feet ever since I've heard about the saturation of pharmacists. I don't want to pursue MD/DO because I don't want to start my life when I turn approximately 29 after slaving through a residency. I thought I wanted to pursue OD but then I realized how much I HATE physics, and would be absolutely tortured if I had to deal with physics for another 4 years of school. I just don't have any interest in DDS. So therefore, I narrowed my choices to Pharm.D and PA.

For Pharm.D, I have worked in a retail pharmacy for 2 years as a tech and I know I would enjoy the job. In addition, they make more than PAs do, and the job is less stressful. However, being that I have a full scholarship for undergrad, the ~130k in loans I would have to take out really scares me. In addition, ~130k in loans + saturation = not good (this scares me the most). Also, when people say there are options, such as research, I absolutely despise research and would hate doing that (me and my lab partner would make an agreement that they would do the majority of the lab work and I would write all the reports).

For PA, I would have virtually no loans whatsoever (I would attend a state school where the tuition would be about 4k per year). I would also be able to find a job VERY easy. The salary is also not bad (80k). In addition, I would only be in school for 2 years. However, I know this job would be substantially more stressful.

So heres the question:
Are the saturation and loans worth the Pharm.D degree when I have another option that has many job openings and no loans, but would be the more stressful job? :confused:
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KB830 said:
I've wanted to go into pharmacy, and started to have cold feet ever since I've heard about the saturation of pharmacists. I don't want to pursue MD/DO because I don't want to start my life when I turn approximately 29 after slaving through a residency. I thought I wanted to pursue OD but then I realized how much I HATE physics, and would be absolutely tortured if I had to deal with physics for another 4 years of school. I just don't have any interest in DDS. So therefore, I narrowed my choices to Pharm.D and PA.

For Pharm.D, I have worked in a retail pharmacy for 2 years as a tech and I know I would enjoy the job. In addition, they make more than PAs do, and the job is less stressful. However, being that I have a full scholarship for undergrad, the ~130k in loans I would have to take out really scares me. In addition, ~130k in loans + saturation = not good (this scares me the most). Also, when people say there are options, such as research, I absolutely despise research and would hate doing that (me and my lab partner would make an agreement that they would do the majority of the lab work and I would write all the reports).

For PA, I would have virtually no loans whatsoever (I would attend a state school where the tuition would be about 4k per year). I would also be able to find a job VERY easy. The salary is also not bad (80k). In addition, I would only be in school for 2 years. However, I know this job would be substantially more stressful.

So heres the question:
Are the saturation and loans worth the Pharm.D degree when I have another option that has many job openings and no loans, but would be the more stressful job? :confused:
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What about Podiatry? Same pre-reqs as pharmacy and not very saturated due to the fact there are only 9 schools and you need to take the MCAT. Plus It's only 9 years (including the 1 yr residency after 4 years of pod school).... You like feet right?

Another thing to take into consideration for PA school is that you need at least 1000 hours of training in some sort of medical field. I remember going over an application with a friend of mine who was applying and pharmacy tech hours do not count for that experience, neither do volunteer hours even in a hospital setting. They value "ER room experience" so basically nurses, scrub techs, etc. PA school is extremely selective too. Don't let anyone fool you.
 
nicolemsm said:
What about Podiatry? Same pre-reqs as pharmacy and not very saturated due to the fact there are only 9 schools and you need to take the MCAT. Plus It's only 9 years (including the 1 yr residency after 4 years of pod school).... You like feet right?

Another thing to take into consideration for PA school is that you need at least 1000 hours of training in some sort of medical field. I remember going over an application with a friend of mine who was applying and pharmacy tech hours do not count for that experience, neither do volunteer hours even in a hospital setting. They value "ER room experience" so basically nurses, scrub techs, etc. PA school is extremely selective too. Don't let anyone fool you.
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Hm, podiatry is a possibility now that you say that, I should look into that. And I think you mean 100 hours of training :D. Regarding those hours (and community service which some require), I spoke to someone from admissions from SUNY Downstate about my educational situation. I graduate with a Bio degree in 3 years instead of 4 and have a 3.93 GPA. He stated that my situation would allow for me to have an excuse as to why volunteering hours may be late.

"A minimum of 100 hours of health-related experience" - Pharmacy IS health-related.

Keep in mind, most students who go into PA programs transfer in after 2 years. I already completed Gen Bio and Chem I&II, Orgo I&II, Physics I&II, A&P I&II, Cell Bio, Molecular Bio, and Micro. As you can see I am more than academically required for the program.
 
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KB830 said:
Hm, podiatry is a possibility now that you say that, I should look into that. And I think you mean 100 hours of training :D. Regarding those hours (and community service which some require), I spoke to someone from admissions from SUNY Downstate about my educational situation. I graduate with a Bio degree in 3 years instead of 4 and have a 3.93 GPA. He stated that my situation would allow for me to have an excuse as to why volunteering hours may be late.

"A minimum of 100 hours of health-related experience" - Pharmacy IS health-related.

Keep in mind, most students who go into PA programs transfer in after 2 years. I already completed Gen Bio and Chem I&II, Orgo I&II, Physics I&II, A&P I&II, Cell Bio, Molecular Bio, and Micro. As you can see I am more than academically required for the program.
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The reason I mentioned 1000 was because he applied to Duke's Program- I'm not sure about SUNY or any other schools requirements. But theirs states:

http://paprogram.mc.duke.edu/Admissions/Prerequisites/

"A minimum of 1,000 hours of patient care experience is required with direct, "hands-on" patient contact (e.g., EMT or paramedic, health educator, RN, patient care attendant or nurse's aide, clinic assistant, Peace Corps volunteer or other cross-cultural health care experience, technologist, therapist, clinical research assistant, etc.). 1,000 hours of patient care experience must be completedno later than October 1, 2010. The following types of experience are NOT accepted toward the 1,000 hours of patient care experience: PA or physician observer or shadow, non-clinical research assistant positions, student clinical experience (student nurse, student EMT, student athletic trainer, or other health care student), student "intern" experiences, candy striper or junior volunteer positions, CPR or ACLS instructor, wilderness medicine instructor, patient transporter, pharmaceutical representative, ski patroller, life guard, aerobics instructor, unit clerk, insurance clerk, medical secretary or other clerical positions"

I would say take your GRE and apply though! Sounds like you're intent on doing it!
 
There is also an Anesthesia Assistant as well. It is ~ 2 years in length. Explore my friend there are plenty of careers out there. Plus shadowing is a hugh part of finding what you enjoy to do.

As Nicole added the clinical exposure hrs. Many school require 1000 hrs some as high as 2000. It is a very competitive school to get into. Also very rarely do people get in after just 2 years of school. Most complete a bachelors degree. Plus many are masters programs which require a bachelors.

Also take it as anectotal, but i have a teacher who is into healthcare in my state as well as the US. His statement this past week was that schools are getting pushed to convert their programs all to Masters. Take it as you will.
 
What is your main concern...Not spending much time in school? Great income? Job stability? Have you even shadowed the different health professions to see what you would enjoy? I wouldn't recommend choosing a career where you will spend many hours of your day and many years of your life doing something you will not enjoy as much as something else. Spending a few more years in a program like MD vs. PharmD would be worth it if you like it better. Just go shadow some people and figure out what you want to do with your life. Any Health profession job will give job satisfaction and good pay. Some more than others. Don't worry so much about getting done so quick. If you find something you are passionate about, the school time and debt will be worth it.
A note about Podiatry, it is not 1 yr residency anymore. It is 2-3 year residencies and they are trying to weed out the 2 year residencies.
 
Paulywog said:
What is your main concern...Not spending much time in school? Great income? Job stability? Have you even shadowed the different health professions to see what you would enjoy? I wouldn't recommend choosing a career where you will spend many hours of your day and many years of your life doing something you will not enjoy as much as something else. Spending a few more years in a program like MD vs. PharmD would be worth it if you like it better. Just go shadow some people and figure out what you want to do with your life. Any Health profession job will give job satisfaction and good pay. Some more than others. Don't worry so much about getting done so quick. If you find something you are passionate about, the school time and debt will be worth it.
A note about Podiatry, it is not 1 yr residency anymore. It is 2-3 year residencies and they are trying to weed out the 2 year residencies.
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Point blank: My main concern with pharmacy is taking out 140k in loans and then not being able to find a full-time clinical job (hospital, retail, mail-order).

To be honest, if I had to take out 200k in loans and knew that I would get a job very rapidly, I would be content. To me, PA > MD because of the less amount of schooling (everyone calls me crazy for saying having this opinion, but its just how I feel). So thats why I have narrowed it down to PharmD and PA.

Money is an issue, obviously; you can't live without it. However, I am very economical (read: cheap :laugh:) and would be perfectly content living a normal life, as long as I am not struggling for money. On the same note, I wouldn't mind earning less as a PA, in comparison to a pharmacist, knowing that I will be getting a job rapidly. Hence, my worries about pharmacy.
 
Shadow is what you need to get out of this thread. See if you like any of these professions you are contemplating.
 
KB830 said:
To be honest, if I had to take out 200k in loans and knew that I would get a job very rapidly, I would be content. To me, PA > MD because of the less amount of schooling (everyone calls me crazy for saying having this opinion, but its just how I feel). So thats why I have narrowed it down to PharmD and PA.
Click to expand...

Some people like more schooling. Working and the Real World are both overrated.

I bet most people would kill to go back to their college days, assuming nothing traumatic. Only in school does working hard get you good grades (manna, points) for yourself, and not for your boss.

Even dating gets harder when you're working. There's nothing like being mutually arse broke in kindling romance. Something like 30-40% of a med school class marry their classmates.
 
I had this debate myself a couple years ago. SO, I shadowed a PA for 1 day and hated it. You're a second-rate citizen in the world of doctors and you have to do allll of the work as a one. I also find it very fascinating to be able to learn everything you would learn in med school in only 1 full year. Obviously, pharmacy school is longer and packs on a lot more debt but I would definitely not decide my future on that at all. Volunteer/shadow/talk to health professionals about both occupations.....
 
While pharmacy tech experience is great for pharmacy school, keep in mind that many PA schools want "patient contact" experience, and counting pills at CVS or delivering IVs to a nurse's station doesn't really count for that. Even though some schools don't technically require X amount of hours of experience, when you're competing with a bunch of nurses, EMTs, etc. that already have years of that kind of experience, you're not gonna stand out very much against them.

Have you shadowed a PA? Especially since you already have pharmacy experience, you can compare and contrast the two and see which better fits with your preferences. When I was thinking about PA school, I shadowed two of them (one in an ER and one at a family practice). I realized that, even though I have a lot of respect for what they do... I don't wanna touch people that much. Sure, it pays well for only two years of school, but pharmacy is still the better choice for me, even if it means going taking out all those extra loans.
 
KB830 said:
Point blank: My main concern with pharmacy is taking out 140k in loans and then not being able to find a full-time clinical job (hospital, retail, mail-order).

To be honest, if I had to take out 200k in loans and knew that I would get a job very rapidly, I would be content. To me, PA > MD because of the less amount of schooling (everyone calls me crazy for saying having this opinion, but its just how I feel). So thats why I have narrowed it down to PharmD and PA.

Money is an issue, obviously; you can't live without it. However, I am very economical (read: cheap :laugh:) and would be perfectly content living a normal life, as long as I am not struggling for money. On the same note, I wouldn't mind earning less as a PA, in comparison to a pharmacist, knowing that I will be getting a job rapidly. Hence, my worries about pharmacy.
Click to expand...

If you are worried about the number of years it takes trying going to a medical school in the Caribbean, it's supposed to be a little less.

Now for some rant time:
Yes, money is important and time to graduation is important and ignore the people who tell you to not think about that and simply go for your passion. I don't care how much you enjoy "blank", if you can't get a job with it, then don't do it as a career do it as a hobby. I'd only recommend pharmacy to people who really like it or people who are already in pharm. school. In the next few years I expect 30% new grads to not find jobs in some states. The people who say there are plenty of jobs left are talking about places in the middle of no where away from family friends and "fun". I don't care how passionate you are about pharmacy, that would drain you (unless you actually wanted to get away from those things). So yes...it's a big big problem. Pharm. schools keep opening. I read an article where the dean of a new pharm. school justified the new school by saying "people in our state get rejected from the other pharm. schools. So we will be able to attract those people". in other words attract them, bleed them dry and leave them in debt and jobless. So pursue your passion in life then if you can in your career. (Just make sure your career is something you can tolerate without being miserable).

That is the mentality and fear and thought process you will have to deal with from fellow students if you go the pharmD route. So if you go there, be prepared for that.

Now, if you'd rather not be in debt and you think that 9 years from now when you will still think it's okay that you went to PA school then do that. Remember you are essentially going to be some physican's worker. That means zero autonomy. They say jump, you don't even say how high, you just do it. If that doesn't bother you, then working as a PA might not be so bad. You don't have to deal with all the paperwork and risks and malpractice issues a physician does. You do your job and go home and have a nice salary that will take you far as along as you don't live like an idiot. You could also invest some of the money and earn even more if you play your cards right.
You might also want to consider nurse anesthetist. They rake in from 100k-170k (Average is I think around 130k). But only consider nursing or PA if you always want oversight and someone telling you what to do etc.

If you want autonomy, money and amazing job security (for now) AND you can be patient enough to get that then go for medicine. Just make sure you can get passionate about it. It's a long road but not THAT much longer. After med. school your getting paid still (~40-50k) your just working long hours, but it's still a job. Be prepared though to be hounded by insurance and lawyers. Be prepared to spend 40%+ of your time in non-patient oriented tasks. The life of a physician isn't easy either.


As you can see all these areas have problems. Go shadow, think about where you want to be 15 years from now. Then make a decision and don't look back.

In conclusion go shadow and make a decision.
 
If being economical (cheap) then you definitely should shadow, because with your academic achievements and course load, scholarship money wouldn't be hard to find you. Invest by shadowing, find what you like, and scholarships should be pouring your way. :)
 
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I, personally, am not all that worried about finding a job as a pharmacist. I plan to have an excellent CV (I think that's what they are called - pharmacy resume) and make myself an attractive candidate for a job. There are jobs for qualified pharmacists. I think this decision would best be made by determining what you would MOST enjoy as a career. Then do what you need to do to get there.
 
SarahLorraine said:
I, personally, am not all that worried about finding a job as a pharmacist. I plan to have an excellent CV (I think that's what they are called - pharmacy resume) and make myself an attractive candidate for a job. There are jobs for qualified pharmacists. I think this decision would best be made by determining what you would MOST enjoy as a career. Then do what you need to do to get there.
Click to expand...


I agree. The most important question is what could you see yourself doing 20 years from now. You gotta choose what you think you will enjoy doing in the future.
 
delano2000 said:
I agree. The most important question is what could you see yourself doing 20 years from now. You gotta choose what you think you will enjoy doing in the future.
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Professional video game tester.:D
 
I've shadowed a PA before the work looks really tedious I can't say for shadowing pharmacy because I haven't yet. :/ But then again I think anything in the medical field is hard work.
 
nicolemsm said:
What about Podiatry? Same pre-reqs as pharmacy and not very saturated due to the fact there are only 9 schools and you need to take the MCAT. Plus It's only 9 years (including the 1 yr residency after 4 years of pod school).... You like feet right?

Another thing to take into consideration for PA school is that you need at least 1000 hours of training in some sort of medical field. I remember going over an application with a friend of mine who was applying and pharmacy tech hours do not count for that experience, neither do volunteer hours even in a hospital setting. They value "ER room experience" so basically nurses, scrub techs, etc. PA school is extremely selective too. Don't let anyone fool you.
Click to expand...

Feet? GROSS! I think that's pretty much the only job out there that's worst than dentistry! LOL...

Pharmacy is def the best cuz it's the only career that does not involve any physical patient contact. (I can choose not to give immunizations by going into mail order)
 
But PA is the way to go if you are worried about competition or job saturation. Pharmacy is the worst field to go into b/c it is no longer a secured career. At least with PA you are handed a job upon graduation bc there is a shortage.
 
KB830 said:
I've wanted to go into pharmacy, and started to have cold feet ever since I've heard about the saturation of pharmacists. I don't want to pursue MD/DO because I don't want to start my life when I turn approximately 29 after slaving through a residency. I thought I wanted to pursue OD but then I realized how much I HATE physics, and would be absolutely tortured if I had to deal with physics for another 4 years of school. I just don't have any interest in DDS. So therefore, I narrowed my choices to Pharm.D and PA.

For Pharm.D, I have worked in a retail pharmacy for 2 years as a tech and I know I would enjoy the job. In addition, they make more than PAs do, and the job is less stressful. However, being that I have a full scholarship for undergrad, the ~130k in loans I would have to take out really scares me. In addition, ~130k in loans + saturation = not good (this scares me the most). Also, when people say there are options, such as research, I absolutely despise research and would hate doing that (me and my lab partner would make an agreement that they would do the majority of the lab work and I would write all the reports).

For PA, I would have virtually no loans whatsoever (I would attend a state school where the tuition would be about 4k per year). I would also be able to find a job VERY easy. The salary is also not bad (80k). In addition, I would only be in school for 2 years. However, I know this job would be substantially more stressful.

So heres the question:
Are the saturation and loans worth the Pharm.D degree when I have another option that has many job openings and no loans, but would be the more stressful job? :confused:
Click to expand...
Go to medical school (MD/DO) period because as a PA or Podiatrist you will be considered like a previous poster as a second class citizen in healthcare. And I am talking from experience. The job maket for pharmacy is over saturated and it's gonna get worst as more pharmacy schools are being opened every year. Go for MD/DO...that's probably the best choice now..let the other stuff (not being able to start a family early, residency ect...) take care of themselves.
 
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demayette said:
Go to medical school (MD/DO) period because as a PA or Podiatrist you will be considered like a previous poster as a second class citizen in healthcare. And I am talking from experience. The job maket for pharmacy is over saturated and it's gonna get worst as more pharmacy schools are being opened every year. Go for MD/DO...that's probably the best choice now..let the other stuff (not being able to start a family early, residency ect...) take care of themselves.
Click to expand...


Really, it depends on the setting. PA's aren't treated like that everywhere, and pharmacy isn't even close to being saturated in some locations...
 
SHC1984 said:
But PA is the way to go if you are worried about competition or job saturation. Pharmacy is the worst field to go into b/c it is no longer a secured career. At least with PA you are handed a job upon graduation bc there is a shortage.
Click to expand...

But isn't there gonna be a reduced demand for PAs as well in the future because of the perceived shortage of PAs and therefore more buildup of PA schools, just like what happend to pharmacy?
 
aussiepharmer said:
But isn't there gonna be a reduced demand for PAs as well in the future because of the perceived shortage of PAs and therefore more buildup of PA schools, just like what happend to pharmacy?
Click to expand...

There's a shortage of general physicians. PA can and will take the place of them in the future. Most MD would want to do radiology or dermatology not general practice.
 
Hello,

I am in third year of undergrad majoring in Biology doing BA and minoring in chemistry.
Because this is well known forum to discuss this regarding pharmacy....could anyone tell me which is better Pharm D or PA? Which one is more competitive? what are pros and cons for both?

Would BA or BS in Biology be better for Pharmacy School?

I was previously interested in PA but somehow after shadowing it leads my interest toward Pharmacy.

Thanks!
 
shrutid08 said:
Would BA or BS in Biology be better for Pharmacy School?

I was previously interested in PA but somehow after shadowing it leads my interest toward Pharmacy.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Have you had any experience in a pharmacy? I was gung-ho for PA, but after shadowing I began to grow more on the fence between PA and pharmacy. Seeing what a pharmacist actually does on a daily basis while working as a hospital tech is what made me pursue pharmacy again.

I went the BA route (two more semesters of German sounded much more appealing than Calc II), so I might be biased in saying that for pharmacy BA or BS doesn't matter. Really, having a degree in and of itself makes you competitive because at least half of applicants don't have one. As long as you've completed your pre-requisite classes, I don't think what you majored in is a huge deal.
 
SarahLorraine said:
I, personally, am not all that worried about finding a job as a pharmacist. I plan to have an excellent CV (I think that's what they are called - pharmacy resume) and make myself an attractive candidate for a job.
Click to expand...

is this a joke?
 
I'll go out and say it too - I'm not worried about finding a job when I graduate... Even the worst naysayers agree that there are certain places (not just Alaska) that still have shortages of pharmacists. I also have a few other things going for me when it comes to finding the job I want when I graduate.
 
shrutid08 said:
Hello,

I am in third year of undergrad majoring in Biology doing BA and minoring in chemistry.
Because this is well known forum to discuss this regarding pharmacy....could anyone tell me which is better Pharm D or PA? Which one is more competitive? what are pros and cons for both?

Would BA or BS in Biology be better for Pharmacy School?

I was previously interested in PA but somehow after shadowing it leads my interest toward Pharmacy.

Thanks!
Click to expand...


Pros-Pharmacy-Nice clean job, nice paycheck, many options to choose from (hospital, retail, specialize, compounding, mail order, etc.), Some pharmacist even work from HOME (thats a huge bonus there!)

Cons-Pharmacy-Saturation=No jobs and high debt

Pros-PA-Job easy to find. There is a shortage, don't have to worry about not being able to land a job easily.

Cons-PA-nasty job, do all the **** work MD don't want to do. Overall a bad job. (Read: bodily fluids)

I hope this helps! :)
 
tungsten87 said:
is this a joke?
Click to expand...

You know... for all this "saturation" talk there seem to be plenty of openings where I am. My hospital alone just hired several new pharmacists. I'm sure the fact that DFW doesn't have it's own pharmacy school helps, but still. Jobs are out there.
 
lauradiddle said:
You know... for all this "saturation" talk there seem to be plenty of openings where I am. My hospital alone just hired several new pharmacists. I'm sure the fact that DFW doesn't have it's own pharmacy school helps, but still. Jobs are out there.
Click to expand...

"Saturation" is shorthand for "Waaaaaah jobs aren't falling into my lap anymore."
 
aw, bummer - thought OP wanted to know who would win in a fight ):
 
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