Pharmacy Arms Race

[Pharmacy Kid]

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It seems like 10 years ago, you could get most pharmacy jobs with just a license.

Five years ago, it was preferred you had experience to get into a hospital job near the city. For retail, there were no more bonuses in the city but plenty of hours and good wages.

Now in the past year, you need residency + BCPS + years of experience for a hospital position in a metro area. For retail, the hours and salary dried up and you have to look a few hours away for full time work.

What do you think it's gonna be like in five years?

 

[Mambo#5]

It seems like 10 years ago, you could get most pharmacy jobs with just a license.

Five years ago, it was preferred you had experience to get into a hospital job near the city. For retail, there were no more bonuses in the city but plenty of hours and good wages.

Now in the past year, you need residency + BCPS + years of experience for a hospital position in a metro area. For retail, the hours and salary dried up and you have to look a few hours away for full time work.

What do you think it's gonna be like in five years?

Who cares? Don’t plan on being in it in 5 years.

 

[rph3664]

10 years ago, anything but retail or LTC already required a residency in most places; experience didn't count, and forget about being hired with a B.Sc.Pharm. because it identifies you as Being Older.

 

[PharmtoCS]

For hospital, you would probably need to have residency + BCPS + years of experience plus an insider connection. You would also have to relocate at least 6 hours away for full time work.

This is already a reality in extremely saturated regions such as Southern California and will likely spread to the rest of the country after 2-5 years.

 

[mentos]

I predict all new hires will be young, blonde and beautiful with blue eyes.

 

[Momus]

I predict all new hires will be young, blonde and beautiful with blue eyes.

It's already happening. Some bosses in my area mostly hires good looking Asian girls (his wife is Asian), and the other one hires mostly pretty middle eastern girls (coz he himself is middle eastern).

 

[Xenophylia]

Guess that's a positive aspect of oversaturation- so many new grads, you can hire whatever fulfills your particular fetish..... Have a thing for midgets? No problem. Siamese twins? (Do they pay TWO sets of tuition?) Great. What a wonderful world we live in!

 

[confettiflyer]

We get so many good residency + 1-3 years experience applicant on the inpatient side, we don't even bother with anything less than that. That'll probably hang steady for a while, and I don't see any need to actively look for more experienced individuals as we can train from there. Once you meet that bar, we'll drill down on personality.

 

[Seriously Serious]

I can see residency creeping into retail positions (community residencies). I bet we will eventually hit a point where the investment is not worth the return (e.g. PharmD + PGY-3 + BCXX + more BS certificates for an 80K/yr staff position in the basement of a hospital). I guess you can make that argument now..

 

[Modest_anteater]

I can see residency creeping into retail positions (community residencies). I bet we will eventually hit a point where the investment is not worth the return (e.g. PharmD + PGY-3 + BCXX + more BS certificates for an 80K/yr staff position in the basement of a hospital). I guess you can make that argument now..

1. open up independant
2. start your own 5 year "community residency PGY1-PGY5
3. pay is 30k a year
4. profit.

 

[projektreverb]

I can see residency creeping into retail positions (community residencies). I bet we will eventually hit a point where the investment is not worth the return (e.g. PharmD + PGY-3 + BCXX + more BS certificates for an 80K/yr staff position in the basement of a hospital). I guess you can make that argument now..

I agree with the community residency becoming a norm for a retail position in the next 10 years.

I agree, we’ve hit the point where the investment isn’t worth the return.

 

[PharmtoCS]

People will still go into pharmacy based on the price tag salary.

“$80k for working only 32 hours a week? That must be cush!” Never mind that most of these jobs are in chain retail and you will be left with $30-40k after taxes and student loan payments.

 

[JustFillIt]

It seems like 10 years ago, you could get most pharmacy jobs with just a license.

Five years ago, it was preferred you had experience to get into a hospital job near the city. For retail, there were no more bonuses in the city but plenty of hours and good wages.

Now in the past year, you need residency + BCPS + years of experience for a hospital position in a metro area. For retail, the hours and salary dried up and you have to look a few hours away for full time work.

What do you think it's gonna be like in five years?

In 5 years I’m going to be even better at smashing the retail Rx assembly line and I’ll laugh even harder when the young pups come and hide in the bathroom and cry.

In 5 years I’ll have carved out my piece of the pie. Don’t know about you guys but - that’s what I’ll do.

Then again I may have a heart attack mid assembly line crush.. we will see.

 

[mentos]

In 5 years I’m going to be even better at smashing the retail Rx assembly line and I’ll laugh even harder when the young pups come and hide in the bathroom and cry.

In 5 years I’ll have carved out my piece of the pie. Don’t know about you guys but - that’s what I’ll do.

Then again I may have a heart attack mid assembly line crush.. we will see.

Let's hope we all have jobs in 5 years!

 

[JustFillIt]

It's already happening. Some bosses in my area mostly hires good looking Asian girls (his wife is Asian), and the other one hires mostly pretty middle eastern girls (coz he himself is middle eastern).

Are you Asian? Is it possible you are noticing “good looking Asian girls” and blaming the perving on someone else?

 

[JustFillIt]

Let's hope we all have jobs in 5 years!

Well.... the jobs will certainly be there. I just think it’s going to be much harder to get and retain them.

This is why it’s so important to be the best.

 

[mentos]

Well.... the jobs will certainly be there. I just think it’s going to be much harder to get and retain them.

This is why it’s so important to be the best.

Doesn't matter if you're the best. If you make 20-40k more than a new grad who can do the same job, it's only a matter of time.

 

[Xenophylia]

This is why it’s so important to be the best.
[/QUOTE]

Sadly, that's not true at all......

 

[lane one]

For hospital, you would probably need to have residency + BCPS + years of experience plus an insider connection. You would also have to relocate at least 6 hours away for full time work.

This is already a reality in extremely saturated regions such as Southern California and will likely spread to the rest of the country after 2-5 years.

Once you have 5+ years experience + BCPS, does it matter any more whether or not you did a PGY1? Asking for a friend...

 

[JustFillIt]

This is why it’s so important to be the best.

Sadly, that's not true at all......
[/QUOTE]

I don’t know... my experience has been entirely different.

I can say with a certainty that employment, pay, benefits, and treatment are consistent and very good in my experience.

 

[beautifulrobot]

Once you have 5+ years experience + BCPS, does it matter any more whether or not you did a PGY1? Asking for a friend...

Not really, no. But if your "friend" is currently a pharmacy student, good luck getting experience without doing a PGY1 first.

 

[nafcillin]

Well I guess it helps that I’m Asian? Still hasn’t landed me the job I want

 

[Xenophylia]

I should elaborate- big business corporate chains have no concept of "experience" or the concept of trying to retain "talent". Everyone is just a warm body with a pulse to fill a slot on a schedule. You could be a pharmacy prodigy and no one would notice or care. That's not true for independents where you are actually known as a real person by those who make the decisions. There, your value increases with what you are able to bring to the table- be that experience, dedication or good problem solving skills. If you make an effort, more than likely it will be noticed. All of those Walgreens RPhs coming in hours early or staying hours late aren't being valued for what they are doing. They'd only have it held against them if they DIDN'T do it. That, it a nutshell, is how chain retail pharmacies work and why everyone should think twice before selling their soul to such an organization.

 

[Modest_anteater]

I should elaborate- big business corporate chains have no concept of "experience" or the concept of trying to retain "talent". Everyone is just a warm body with a pulse to fill a slot on a schedule. You could be a pharmacy prodigy and no one would notice or care. That's not true for independents where you are actually known as a real person by those who make the decisions. There, your value increases with what you are able to bring to the table- be that experience, dedication or good problem solving skills. If you make an effort, more than likely it will be noticed. All of those Walgreens RPhs coming in hours early or staying hours late aren't being valued for what they are doing. They'd only have it held against them if they DIDN'T do it. That, it a nutshell, is how chain retail pharmacies work and why everyone should think twice before selling their soul to such an organization.

Is the money worth the more stress, lower job security in retail? you realize the more you earn the more you are taxed. I would say yes if you own an independent where you can make 200k USD + a year quite easily otherwise no. Slaving at red devil is not worth the extra money. Better to get a union staff pharmacy job at a hospital and ride the medicare/medicaid gravy train while it lasts. There is so much easier money to be found in hospitals if you know the upper management. Now if there were major cuts to government healthcare this would change in a second but right now hospitals money is the EASY money. It's money that doesn't have to answer to the freemarket which means it's much much easier money in most cases.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

Well I guess it helps that I’m Asian? Still hasn’t landed me the job I want

Wear more makeup?

 

[JustFillIt]

Well I guess it helps that I’m Asian? Still hasn’t landed me the job I want

pm momus for the guy that hires Asian women...

 

[Mr. Corporate Pharmacist]

I should elaborate- big business corporate chains have no concept of "experience" or the concept of trying to retain "talent". Everyone is just a warm body with a pulse to fill a slot on a schedule. You could be a pharmacy prodigy and no one would notice or care. That's not true for independents where you are actually known as a real person by those who make the decisions. There, your value increases with what you are able to bring to the table- be that experience, dedication or good problem solving skills. If you make an effort, more than likely it will be noticed. All of those Walgreens RPhs coming in hours early or staying hours late aren't being valued for what they are doing. They'd only have it held against them if they DIDN'T do it. That, it a nutshell, is how chain retail pharmacies work and why everyone should think twice before selling their soul to such an organization.

Pharmacists that come in early and stay late aren't the definition of good talent IMO. They care, work crazy hard, and are committed to execution.

But what they're doing is unsustainable and doesn't help anyone in the long term.

Good talent would be pharmacists that think like business owners who can manage a business to create safe work environments.

Good leadership from corporate would enable and empower them to run the business with autonomy (to spend more payroll for example).

All too often, we only see and hear stories of poor leadership and their effects on our teams. But I think it's a cycle. Mediocre talent causes some leaders to crack the whip and keep people from growing, causing poor business results.

Is the company in the wrong being for profit and having budgets? No, every corporation is like this.

It's the people who work for the company. I argue that talent is everything. We just don't hear many good or successful stories in retail pharmacy, so we disregard the importance of it.

All the bloodbath turns everyone sour, and all the positivity is silenced. So no one believes there's anything worth fighting for in retail.

 

[JustFillIt]

Pharmacists that come in early and stay late aren't the definition of good talent IMO. They care, work crazy hard, and are committed to execution.

But what they're doing is unsustainable and doesn't help anyone in the long term.

Good talent would be pharmacists that think like business owners who can manage a business to create safe work environments.

Good leadership from corporate would enable and empower them to run the business with autonomy (to spend more payroll for example).

All too often, we only see and hear stories of poor leadership and their effects on our teams. But I think it's a cycle. Mediocre talent causes some leaders to crack the whip and keep people from growing, causing poor business results.

Is the company in the wrong being for profit and having budgets? No, every corporation is like this.

It's the people who work for the company. I argue that talent is everything. We just don't hear many good or successful stories in retail pharmacy, so we disregard the importance of it.

All the bloodbath turns everyone sour, and all the positivity is silenced. So no one believes there's anything worth fighting for in retail.

This is so true. I don’t have enough time to post my full thoughts right now so I will boil it down.

What is needed in retail pharmacy is leadership. The leader needs to know how to hire good talent, train that talent to their full potential, then (once properly trained and motivated) delegate appropriately in order to maximize all components of the Rx assembly line. Once this is done, retention and motivation become the next pieces.

I have seen success in retail pharmacy in the current environment that we live in.

I would add that coming in an hour early is entirely appropriate, many hard working/motivated people are willing to sacrifice that extra 4-5 hours a week. However, staying late shows that something broke down in the Rx assembly line that day and you should analyze how to change that for the future. Staying late is a larger indicator of something going wrong than coming in early.

 

[BidingMyTime]

you realize the more you earn the more you are taxed.

Sure, the more you make the more taxes you pay, but you still make more money. There is this myth, that if people make "too much money", they will pay more in taxes and end up with less money then if they had made less to begin with. There is no truth to this, you will always make more money, by working more. Even if you get kicked into a higher tax bracket, the higher rate *only* take effect on the money you make after the lower rate. Ie if you make $158,000 and are now in the 32% tax bracket, you only pay that 32% on $500 of your money, the rest is taxed at the lower brackets.

 

[owlegrad]

Sure, the more you make the more taxes you pay, but you still make more money. There is this myth, that if people make "too much money", they will pay more in taxes and end up with less money then if they had made less to begin with. There is no truth to this, you will always make more money, by working more. Even if you get kicked into a higher tax bracket, the higher rate *only* take effect on the money you make after the lower rate. Ie if you make $158,000 and are now in the 32% tax bracket, you only pay that 32% on $500 of your money, the rest is taxed at the lower brackets.

Thank you for posting this. I had intended to try to spell out what a progressive tax system means but you beat me to it and explained it better than I would have to boot. Actually I used to be misinformed about this myself, my parents had thought that exact thing. Knowledge is power lol

 

[Lnsean]

Sure, the more you make the more taxes you pay, but you still make more money. There is this myth, that if people make "too much money", they will pay more in taxes and end up with less money then if they had made less to begin with. There is no truth to this, you will always make more money, by working more. Even if you get kicked into a higher tax bracket, the higher rate *only* take effect on the money you make after the lower rate. Ie if you make $158,000 and are now in the 32% tax bracket, you only pay that 32% on $500 of your money, the rest is taxed at the lower brackets.

Right? People on here keep saying that as if to convince themselves that making less is good. It's like saying that Wags only offering 32 hours is a good thing! /s. People say the silliest things to make themselves feel better. You went to school for 6-8 years to come out making 20% less than your full potential? I know that money is just one aspect of life but sure, have at it.

 

[Modest_anteater]

Sure, the more you make the more taxes you pay, but you still make more money. There is this myth, that if people make "too much money", they will pay more in taxes and end up with less money then if they had made less to begin with. There is no truth to this, you will always make more money, by working more. Even if you get kicked into a higher tax bracket, the higher rate *only* take effect on the money you make after the lower rate. Ie if you make $158,000 and are now in the 32% tax bracket, you only pay that 32% on $500 of your money, the rest is taxed at the lower brackets.

Yeah I see this myth all the time among the unwashed masses. They don't understand how federal marginal tax brackets work ("but if i make a hundred more dollars it will bump me up to the next tax level"). But it's still diminishing returns for your work and time is valuable. Better to invest your time into capital gains at a much lower max tax rate. especially if it's long term cap. gains.

 

[CNJ_Anon]

There is no truth to this, you will always make more money, by working more.

You're correct. But there are certain specific income ranges where a slight pay increase would result in a decrease in take home pay, since as you make more money, you lose the ability to take certain deductions:
Student loan interest deduction is phased out from $65,000 to $80,000
Traditional IRA contribution deduction is phased out from $63,000 to $73,000

If you get a small pay raise to just above one of these thresholds (e.g., to $80,001 or $73,001), you'll actually make less money if you're using these deductions.

But to take a broader view, the result is that as someone's income increases from $63k to $80k, he/she can no longer deduct the $2500 in student loan interest or a $6000 IRA contribution, and thus pays an extra $1870 (22% of $8500) in addition to the $3740 federal income tax (22% of $17k). Add to that 6.2% social security and 1.45% medicare, you would only get an increase of $10.1k in take home pay for that $17k pay increase. Yes, it's definitely more money in your pocket, but it's also at a 41% marginal tax rate on dollars earned in that range.

That's just federal taxes. New Jersey has a Homestead Benefit worth about $333 if you make $74,999. But you lose it if you make $75k.

And if you're lucky enough to make more than $132,900, you stop paying the 6.2% social security tax.

tl;dr: getting a raise will never result in less money due to tax brackets, but it might result is less money due to the loss of a tax deduction.