Pharmacy Perception Curiosity

[cakezyum]

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How does the pharmacists perceived in the classroom or clinical rotations? I'm currently a year 1 pharmacy student and I'm curious about what your instructors say about pharmacists.

 

[dnp1123]

We got along well with the PharmD students and pharmacists in rotations, they were extra helpful and approachable when any of us needed info on drug-drug interactions. Hope to do more work with them in the future

 

[EarthOneFlash]

How does the pharmacists perceived in the classroom or clinical rotations? I'm currently a year 1 pharmacy student and I'm curious about what your instructors say about pharmacists.

Going to be a M1 next year, but I scribed in bone marrow transplant and our pharmacist was the master of everything medication/drug-drug interaction related. All the attendings valued her input. Any intelligent person on the medical side should value the work of pharmD students and pharmacists since we'll all be on the same team in the future.

 

[Keladry]

Had 0 exposure in the classroom, didn't know clinical pharmacists existed until most of the way through 3rd year when I rotated at a hospital that had one assigned to our team which was AMAZING. Have worked with them a few times since then, mainly in the ED, which I've really loved. Don't know my instructors ever really said anything apart from "This is our pharmacist, they're amazing."

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Don't remember any exposure to them in med school, but when I was an intern, their input was invaluable. It was always a pleasure having a clinical pharmacist, pharmacy resident, or pharmacy student in our team.

 

[deleted820760]

Awww! You guys are wonderful. Thanks for appreciating us.

 

[Ismet]

Agree with all of the above, our pharmacists are invaluable. A pharmacist rounds with us on the wards and ICU's and they're incredibly helpful. And always so willing to answer any stupid question I have about a med or when I'm struggling with a TPN order 😛

 

[deleted820760]

Agree with all of the above, our pharmacists are invaluable. A pharmacist rounds with us on the wards and ICU's and they're incredibly helpful. And always so willing to answer any stupid question I have about a med or when I'm struggling with a TPN order 😛

We love helping you guys.

I’ve worked with the most intelligent and amazing physicians, and I’m grateful for that.

 

[Psai]

Actual experts in their field, great to work with and never try to put on airs about being a doctor?

No one is more valuable in the hospital than the pharmacist

 

[Redpancreas]

Awww! You guys are wonderful. Thanks for appreciating us.

Absolutely. You guys are extremely valuable to residents I've met across all regions from what I have been hearing on interviews and despite your training which is quite a lot, you're not asking to be called doctors.

 

[Candidate2017]

I hate pharmacists. They always point me to the wrong aisle when I ask them where the Band Aids or jock itch cream are.
On a serious note, PharmDs teach us in med school and former pharmacists aren't uncommon in med school, so we have lots of contact with pharmacists and learn how underappreciated they are. All the pharmacists I've met are smart, humble, helpful, integral to the team. Nurses on the other hand...

 

[Redpancreas]

Let’s not let this devolve into an anti-mid level thread. Pharmacists are definitely not midlevels as they have done a good job defining their role and are extremely helpful and it’s not a nurses fault his or her colleagues decide to try to overstep their boundaries and some have been helpful when I was a medical student. That being said, I have not reached the resident level and from what I hear from residents on here, it sounds like nurses get under their skin quite often :/

 

[Peach Newport]

SDN hates on midlevels but I wouldn’t call a pharmacist a “midlevel.” They’re masters of a very specific domain and are incredibly important.

From what I’ve gathered, it seems like the consensus is this (not my opinion):

NPs are the troublesome tenant trying to steal your building. Pharmacists are your cool neighbor.

 

[Atom612]

How does the pharmacists perceived in the classroom or clinical rotations? I'm currently a year 1 pharmacy student and I'm curious about what your instructors say about pharmacists.

They haven't been brought up negatively at all in my program, have only heard good things so far as an M1.

JW since you're a year 1, have they brought up advocating for gaining provider status at all to you guys?

I saw this the other day and was wondering how popular it was among new pharmacy students

 

[Gilakend]

They haven't been brought up negatively at all in my program, have only heard good things so far as an M1.

JW since you're a year 1, have they brought up advocating for gaining provider status at all to you guys?

I saw this the other day and was wondering how popular it was among new pharmacy students

I'm not in PharmD but take classes with them. I haven't seen that shirt but all PharmD faculty and all PharmD students think pharmacists should have prescription powers if that's what you mean by provider status. The common argument is that MDs and DOs will "often" prescribe medication that if they just gave them to the patient would kill them either due to dosing or interactions. They are also very, very persistent that they be called "Dr. XYZ" if that's what you meant??

The PhD faculty tend to not necessarily be on the bandwagon. At office hours one of my professors told me they thought it was awful that they awarded the title "Dr." after 6 years of schooling. She was from another country and said it took like 10+ years after high school to get their PhD, and insinuated they had worked much harder. Although it may have just been bitterness because in their country the bachelors degree they got was 6 years long.

 

[cakezyum]

They haven't been brought up negatively at all in my program, have only heard good things so far as an M1.

JW since you're a year 1, have they brought up advocating for gaining provider status at all to you guys?

I saw this the other day and was wondering how popular it was among new pharmacy students

They definitely brought up about the provider status during class and how it will pay for our patient care services. We may be able to prescribe medication as well but I feel that we weren't really trained to diagnose. I may be wrong about that because I'm about to finish my first semester of pharmacy school. I heard that we needed 2 more votes from the senate in order to pass the bill.

 

[AlwaysContrary]

The PhD faculty tend to not necessarily be on the bandwagon. At office hours one of my professors told me they thought it was awful that they awarded the title "Dr." after 6 years of schooling. She was from another country and said it took like 10+ years after high school to get their PhD, and insinuated they had worked much harder. Although it may have just been bitterness because in their country the bachelors degree they got was 6 years long.

It's such a misrepresentation saying people get their PharmD degrees after 6 years of school. Pharmacy is a professional degree that takes 4 years of professional school to achieve much like MD, DO, DMD, and PhD (takes 4-5 years).

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Collaboration between one healthcare professional to another is where medicine is or should be in the future and it is what the best for the patients.
That said, Pharmacists are vital to patient care and serve as an important link between a patient and their PCPs.
I volunteer with PharmD students at our student-run clinic, and they are the coolest people.

 

[operaman]

Agreeing that clinical pharmacists are incredibly helpful. I leaned on them heavily as an intern, especially on pediatrics rotations where dosing is a real PITA, and continue to call on them from time to time. It amazes me how many new meds I see as a resident that didn't even exist when I took pharm a few years ago as a student. We also don't get much instruction on the actual formulation and absorption of various drugs which will occasionally become an issue when you have to figure out dosing for someone with a G-tube versus a J-tube versus IV/IM. I've leaned on pharmacy to help create specialized dosing schedules for patients who were on a lot of meds that couldn't be dosed within various intervals of each other and were vitally important to that patient's hospitalization. I feel like my pharmacology knowledge is pretty strong, but I also know where my knowledge stops and when to ask for help and thankfully there are people around who know this stuff.

I don't think I ever got much specific pre-clinical instruction on them; it mostly came from working with them on teams during the clinical years. I rarely interact with retail pharmacists -- I don't prescribe many drugs for outpatients that are super expensive/often-denied or terribly complex.

As for pharmacists prescribing medication, this is inevitable and already common practice in much of the developed world. When I worked overseas I would frequently go to pharmacists for very basic prescription needs. Our current system with Minute Clinic NPs is basically a retail pharmacy workaround given our current laws; give PharmDs prescribing ability and watch the Minute Clinics disappear.

I think there are limitations on which drugs can be prescribed by PharmDs overseas (short courses of acute need drugs, etc), but this frees up other resources dramatically. If it's flu season and you are a young healthy person and have all the clinical signs of influenza, it seems a little nuts to me that you have to go to an urgent care or ED (nobody ever gets flu symptoms during office hours), pay $100+, get a rapid flu test whose results won't change the treatment, and then take your script for Tamiflu over to the pharmacy. Not one single MD on this board does this when we're sick -- we all have someone call us in a script and we go get it, no test, nada.

I don't think any pharmacists want to be medically managing chronic medical conditions from behind the counter, but allowing them some prescribing ability would surely free up needed PCP time, especially during seasonally busy times. Maybe let the pharmacist have the "it's most likely a virus and you don't need a z-pack" talk...

 

[Gilakend]

It's such a misrepresentation saying people get their PharmD degrees after 6 years of school. Pharmacy is a professional degree that takes 4 years of professional school to achieve much like MD, DO, DMD, and PhD (takes 4-5 years).

I think they were referring to our school and other 2+4 programs. They may feel different about a 4+3 or 4 years. I also think they were taking into account post-doc or residencies which are often a few more years. I do agree it is a blanket statement.

Are all "normal" pharm schools 4 years? I thought they were 3 years for some reason.

 

[Psai]

Agreeing that clinical pharmacists are incredibly helpful. I leaned on them heavily as an intern, especially on pediatrics rotations where dosing is a real PITA, and continue to call on them from time to time. It amazes me how many new meds I see as a resident that didn't even exist when I took pharm a few years ago as a student. We also don't get much instruction on the actual formulation and absorption of various drugs which will occasionally become an issue when you have to figure out dosing for someone with a G-tube versus a J-tube versus IV/IM. I've leaned on pharmacy to help create specialized dosing schedules for patients who were on a lot of meds that couldn't be dosed within various intervals of each other and were vitally important to that patient's hospitalization. I feel like my pharmacology knowledge is pretty strong, but I also know where my knowledge stops and when to ask for help and thankfully there are people around who know this stuff.

I don't think I ever got much specific pre-clinical instruction on them; it mostly came from working with them on teams during the clinical years. I rarely interact with retail pharmacists -- I don't prescribe many drugs for outpatients that are super expensive/often-denied or terribly complex.

As for pharmacists prescribing medication, this is inevitable and already common practice in much of the developed world. When I worked overseas I would frequently go to pharmacists for very basic prescription needs. Our current system with Minute Clinic NPs is basically a retail pharmacy workaround given our current laws; give PharmDs prescribing ability and watch the Minute Clinics disappear.

I think there are limitations on which drugs can be prescribed by PharmDs overseas (short courses of acute need drugs, etc), but this frees up other resources dramatically. If it's flu season and you are a young healthy person and have all the clinical signs of influenza, it seems a little nuts to me that you have to go to an urgent care or ED (nobody ever gets flu symptoms during office hours), pay $100+, get a rapid flu test whose results won't change the treatment, and then take your script for Tamiflu over to the pharmacy. Not one single MD on this board does this when we're sick -- we all have someone call us in a script and we go get it, no test, nada.

I don't think any pharmacists want to be medically managing chronic medical conditions from behind the counter, but allowing them some prescribing ability would surely free up needed PCP time, especially during seasonally busy times. Maybe let the pharmacist have the "it's most likely a virus and you don't need a z-pack" talk...

I actually agree with this. Why go through an unnecessary midlevel middleman? If you're gonna see just the np anyway might as well see the pharmacist only and cut out the bs. But tamiflu is an expensive waste of time, bad example.

 

[AlwaysContrary]

I think they were referring to our school and other 2+4 programs. They may feel different about a 4+3 or 4 years. I also think she was taking into account post-doc or residencies which are often a few more years. I do agree it is a blanket statement.

Are all "normal" pharm schools 4 years? I thought they were 3 years for some reason.

Most established pharm schools are 4 years. 3 year schools exist but they tend to be the lower tier schools or the new schools in it for the cash.

 

[IslandStyle808]

The PharmD pharmacist that teaches our pharm is phenomenal! 100% better than our PhD pharmacist...

 

[operaman]

I actually agree with this. Why go through an unnecessary midlevel middleman? If you're gonna see just the np anyway might as well see the pharmacist only and cut out the bs. But tamiflu is an expensive waste of time, bad example.

Yeah but lemme tell ya, when I get the flu, I put that stuff in a Pez dispenser and chow down!

 

[deleted245139]

A clinical pharmacist in the ED has been invaluable. Huge 👍

 

[BidingMyTime]

Most established pharm schools are 4 years. 3 year schools exist but they tend to be the lower tier schools or the new schools in it for the cash.

And to clarify, the 3-year schools are year round with no breaks.....so it's more like someone getting a 4-year degree by taking a full-course load during each summer. It's still a 4 year degree, even if one completes it in 3 years. (and these school's charge the equivalent of 4 years of tuition for this 3-year program.)

 

[W19]

I would be ok with pharmacists getting provider status... A solid healthcare profession competing with (or displacing) another profession with just an online degree is a good thing for patients.

 

[obgyny]

Pharmacists are an invaluable resource. They are definitely not mid-level providers, but are consultants with specific expertise. I frequently call them for questions of dosing/interactions or logistics of administering medications. I never mind getting a page from them, because that usually means I put in a medication order incorrectly or they are bringing up a concern about the medication regimen, I always appreciate the oversight.

I frequently get called about concerns with medications in pregnant women or the antibiotic regimens we do because it’s a bit different in the OB world. But I’m happy to explain my rationale to them and the evidence. I see it as we can educate each other.

If only all of the consulting services in the hospital were as pleasant as pharmacists if you called them for a question...



Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[deleted407021]

The med students at my school have a good relationship with the PharmD kids and we’ve even had workshops together 👍

 

[Giovanotto]

I would be ok with pharmacists getting provider status... A solid healthcare profession competing with (or displacing) another profession with just an online degree is a good thing for patients.

This just in: Two wrongs make a right. Ok, anyone else out there want provider status? Medical assistants maybe?

 

[W19]

This just in: Two wrongs make a right. Ok, anyone else out there want provider status? Medical assistants maybe?

I think they will be better suited than NP for midlevel practice if they have a good patho class and some clinical hours. I just don't like NP equating themselves with physicians. I like the way where I am doing an IM sub-I does thing. Physicians have a big DR in the badge. Nurse practitioners have NP in theirs regardless they have a PhD or a DNP, and they are prohibited from introducing themselves as doctors.

 

[Giovanotto]

I think they will be better suited than NP for midlevel practice if they have a good patho class and some clinical hours. I just don't like NP equating themselves with physicians. I like the place where I am doing an IM sub-I does thing. Physicians have a big DR in the badge. Nurse practitioners have NP in theirs regardless they have a PhD or a DNP, and they are prohibited to introduce themselves as doctors.

lol, wut? Why are you even in medical school?

 

[AlwaysContrary]

This just in: Two wrongs make a right. Ok, anyone else out there want provider status? Medical assistants maybe?

I don't think you know what provider status is... Social workers and speech pathologists have provider status lol