Pharmacy vs. Internal Medicine.

[PharmEm]

I was just curious, what's the difference b/t a pharmacist and a doctor who specializes in Internal Medicine? Please don't bash this thread, I'm not trying to start a Pharmacist vs. Doctor thread I just wanted to know if there were any distinct difference and/or similiarites. Thanks.

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[dpari]

Hi, just a few thoughts here...

1. Internal Medicine is a much longer path
2. IM has 3 yr RESIDENCY which is depleting and exploititive
3. IM can be too personal, touching peoples body in areas you would
rather not.
4. IM more often than not, includes; Call Rotation and working on Weekends,
oh joy..

News Flash...Pharmacist does not partake in "Hands-On" of peoples body parts, nor are they required to work a call rotation, or weekends...

The difference in pay is about $30-35K, it's VERY obvious what I don't want and why, but this is you.....Good Luck!

-Tavit

I was just curious, what's the difference b/t a pharmacist and a doctor who specializes in Internal Medicine? Please don't bash this thread, I'm not trying to start a Pharmacist vs. Doctor thread I just wanted to know if there were any distinct difference and/or similiarites. Thanks.

 

[ForgetMeNot]

News Flash...Pharmacist does not partake in "Hands-On" of peoples body parts, nor are they required to work a call rotation, or weekends...

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. But nice try.

 

[raptor5]

Hi, just a few thoughts here...

1. Internal Medicine is a much longer path
2. IM has RESIDENCY which sucks
3. IM allows you to get your hands on dirty parts of peoples body
and get exposed to all their personal problems..blah,blah,blah
4. IM allows you to enjoy a Call Rotation and to work on Weekends, oh joy..

News Flash...Pharmacist does not partake in "Hands-On" of peoples body parts, nor are they required to work a call rotation, or weekends...

The difference in pay is about $30-35K, it's VERY obvious what I don't want and why, but this is you.....Good Luck!

-Tavit

Your ignorance is surpassed only by your stupidity.

To answer the OPs question. Internal medicine is a specilaty some physicians choose after medical school. It is a specialty that requires 3 years of post medical school training and can lead to many subspecialties (Cardiology, GI, Nephro, ID, HemeOnc). It is a specialty that deals primarily with diseases of the internal organs and many IM docs either subspecialize or work in an inpatient setting but there are quite a few that are primary care physicians. Salary for an IM doc can range from an AVERAGE of 130-180K. Pharmacy of course is a field of helathcare that is more concerned with the delivery and management of pharmaceutical care than the diagnosis. I believe there are some internal medicine fellowships (1-2 years) in pharmacy that are completed after a pharmacist has completed a pharmacy practice Residency (1 year) but I know very little about them. Medicine and Pharmacy are both great careers that will provide a comfortable standard of living. Medicine is more time consuming, more training, and more pay, and probably more headaches... Pharmacy provides better hours, more flexible hours, jobs in practically any city of the country, and can be obtained in a shorter amount of time (In the grand scheme of things). Pharmacists after graduation can go right in the workforce, whereas doctors cannot unless they wish to not practice clinical medicine.

 

[ApothRM]

Your ignorance is surpassed only by your stupidity.

To answer the OPs question. Internal medicine is a specilaty some physicians choose after medical school. It is a specilaty that requires 3 years of post medical school training and can lead to many subspecialties (Cardiology, GI, Nephro, ID, HemeOnc). It is a specialty that deals primarily with diseases of the internal organs and many IM docs either subspecialize or work in an inpatient setting but there are quite a few that are primary care physicians. Salary for an IM doc can range from an AVERAGE of 130-180K. Pharmacy of course is a field of helathcare that is more concerned with the delivery and management of pharmaceutical care than the diagnosis. I believe there are some internal medicine fellowships (1-2 years) in pharmacy that are completed after a pharmacist has completed a pharmacy practice Residency (1 year) but I know very little about them. Medicine and Pharmacy are both great careers that will provide a comfortable standard of living. Medicine is more time consuming, more training, and more pay, and probably more headaches... Pharmacy provides better hours, more flexible hours, jobs in practically any city of the country, and can be obtained in a shorter amount of time (In the grand scheme of things). Pharmacists after graduation can go right in the workforce, whereas doctors cannot unless they wish not to practice clinical medicine.

Sounds right to me..

 

[dpari]

Let's be clear on something here, maybe I was a bit rough and inaccurate in some respects of the comparison of IM vs Pharmd, however; I still believe that the pursuit of a Pharmd degree and working as a Pharmacist is a Waaaay better career option than that of any type of Medical career regardless of your specialty field of interest.

Don't get me wrong, I am very thankful for all of you who have chosen to become Pulmonologist,Oncologist, Internists, Surgeons, etc... I just believe that when you look at the comparative facts between Internal Medicine and Pharmacy as I have listed below, they illustrate a very clear and preferable career choice that say's Pharmd BIGTIME, not internal medicine.


1. Internal Medicine 12-14 Years of your life vs 6 Years "Pharmd"

2. Internal Medicine Residency (3yrs of exploitation) who needs it...

3. Internal Medicine (Institutional work) Physician is OWNED!
Call, Weekends, etc...Is it really worth the extra money and you
know what!!

4. If Physician has his/her own practice, do you enjoy chasing the money...Just try and get reimbursed and see How Long it takes and How Much you REALLY get back from your billings these days.

5. Malpractice Insurance, how do you feel about this?

6. Why are there Internal Medicine Physicians looking at other options such as....

www.mdvip.com

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=17962

Question... I would really like to know from your perspective what the ADVANTAGES are regarding working as an Internist in America these days?

You may enjoy this type of activity Jack, but I don't and I won't play the game...


All I am saying is for a young aspiring healthcare professional, Pharmacy is the way to go...

1. Pharmd $100k per year

2. Length 6 yrs

3. There are careers available wherein the Pharmacist does not and will not be required to work weekends, and or have a Call rotation...

4. Pharmacist work in CLEAN environments, they do not touch body parts, rectal exams, STD's.....etc..

5. Why wouldn't a High School senior (or anyone interested for that matter) choose Pharmacy if they knew that they could earn $100k a yr at the age of 25-26 and begin to enjoy their life?

Now, Lets hear about ya!!!, tell us how what I have stated here is sooooo untrue....

Your ignorance is surpassed only by your stupidity.

To answer the OPs question. Internal medicine is a specilaty some physicians choose after medical school. It is a specialty that requires 3 years of post medical school training and can lead to many subspecialties (Cardiology, GI, Nephro, ID, HemeOnc). It is a specialty that deals primarily with diseases of the internal organs and many IM docs either subspecialize or work in an inpatient setting but there are quite a few that are primary care physicians. Salary for an IM doc can range from an AVERAGE of 130-180K. Pharmacy of course is a field of helathcare that is more concerned with the delivery and management of pharmaceutical care than the diagnosis. I believe there are some internal medicine fellowships (1-2 years) in pharmacy that are completed after a pharmacist has completed a pharmacy practice Residency (1 year) but I know very little about them. Medicine and Pharmacy are both great careers that will provide a comfortable standard of living. Medicine is more time consuming, more training, and more pay, and probably more headaches... Pharmacy provides better hours, more flexible hours, jobs in practically any city of the country, and can be obtained in a shorter amount of time (In the grand scheme of things). Pharmacists after graduation can go right in the workforce, whereas doctors cannot unless they wish to not practice clinical medicine.

 

[dpari]

Just curious, do you have REAL JOB like working in an institutional setting or a have your own practice?

I would bet NOT...I bet your some academic type working at XYZ college of Medicine....

How far from REALITY could you be dude!

Nice Try...

Your ignorance is surpassed only by your stupidity.

To answer the OPs question. Internal medicine is a specilaty some physicians choose after medical school. It is a specialty that requires 3 years of post medical school training and can lead to many subspecialties (Cardiology, GI, Nephro, ID, HemeOnc). It is a specialty that deals primarily with diseases of the internal organs and many IM docs either subspecialize or work in an inpatient setting but there are quite a few that are primary care physicians. Salary for an IM doc can range from an AVERAGE of 130-180K. Pharmacy of course is a field of helathcare that is more concerned with the delivery and management of pharmaceutical care than the diagnosis. I believe there are some internal medicine fellowships (1-2 years) in pharmacy that are completed after a pharmacist has completed a pharmacy practice Residency (1 year) but I know very little about them. Medicine and Pharmacy are both great careers that will provide a comfortable standard of living. Medicine is more time consuming, more training, and more pay, and probably more headaches... Pharmacy provides better hours, more flexible hours, jobs in practically any city of the country, and can be obtained in a shorter amount of time (In the grand scheme of things). Pharmacists after graduation can go right in the workforce, whereas doctors cannot unless they wish to not practice clinical medicine.

 

[raptor5]

I never once bad mouthed pharmacy but it seems you have no problem doing so to medicine.

I am not going to waste my time replying to your ill-attempted arguments. I presented the facts and you placed judgement upon them. You have also further cemented my comment about your ignorance and I think everyone who reads this can see that.

Question:
Have you even completed your 4th year medicine/Inpatient clerkship? If not, when you get there read this post to your attending Pharmacist and Internist.

 

[bananaface]

The discussion needs to stay civil if this thread is to stay open.

You can't expect to have a good discussion with someone when you start off by calling them names. And, people aren't going to respect you if you present yourself as an authority on a topic while failing to appreciate that different people see aspects of each job as positives or negatives based on personal preferences. In this situation, no one is entirely at fault, nor is anyone entirely free from fault. So, let's call it a wash and move on.

I'm surprised that this question got asked, because the two professions are so vastly different. I would advide the OP to decide what you like and don't like about each potential career separately, then put that together to decide which one fits you best.

 

[raptor5]

Bananaface, I think your reprimand is misdirected. If you have a problem with my post then correct my inaccuracies.

Ignorance = The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.
Stupid = Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistake

 

[bananaface]

Inaccuracies are a separate issue from intrapersonal interactions. I agree with your assessment of the issues at hand. But, the way (both of) you have interacted with each other is not in the spirit of the TOS. All I am saying is please keep it civil from now on so that the OP can continue to receive input.

 

[fun8stuff]

Hi, just a few thoughts here...

1. Internal Medicine is a much longer path
2. IM has 3 yr RESIDENCY which is depleting and exploititive
3. IM can be too personal, touching peoples body in areas you would
rather not.
4. IM more often than not, includes; Call Rotation and working on Weekends,
oh joy..

News Flash...Pharmacist does not partake in "Hands-On" of peoples body parts, nor are they required to work a call rotation, or weekends...

The difference in pay is about $30-35K, it's VERY obvious what I don't want and why, but this is you.....Good Luck!

-Tavit

haha... you wish that was the difference in pay. internists on avg make about 2-3x what a pharmacist makes.

basically, medical school and pharm school are 4 years long. For internal medicine, you will have to do a 3 years paid residency (40k/year)- but in the end you you will make at least twice as much as a pharmacist and be able to do much more than count pills. I started out as pharmacy, but after working in a pharmacy i saw what it really was. i could not see myself in a monotonous job for the rest of my life. some people can. it's a personal choice.


pharmacy: 6-8 yrs of schooling (
IM: 8 yrs schooling +3 years residency

 

[fun8stuff]

1. Internal Medicine 12-14 Years of your life vs 6 Years "Pharmd"

untrue: IM is 4 yrs undergrad, 4 yrs med school, 3 yrs residency...

2. Internal Medicine Residency (3yrs of exploitation) who needs it...

untrue....

3. Internal Medicine (Institutional work) Physician is OWNED!
Call, Weekends, etc...Is it really worth the extra money and you
know what!!

The avg work week is only around 50 hours for IM. Basically, a lot of the people that go into medicine enjoy their job enough that they don't mind working the extra hours. It's a lot difference than standing in a cubby counting pills for 40 hours a day.

"Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute, now THAT'S relativity." - Albert Einstein

While working in a pharmacy it seemed like a day would last forever. It was so boring. Medicine is much less boring most of the time.

As for call- most physicians are in a group practice and split up the call. In some groups call is only required 1 week every 2 months.

4. If Physician has his/her own practice, do you enjoy chasing the money...Just try and get reimbursed and see How Long it takes and How Much you REALLY get back from your billings these days.

Physicians often hire other people to do their billing for them. Sure, this isn't an upside of medicine, but the pay is still 2-3x that of a pharmacist.

5. Malpractice Insurance, how do you feel about this?

This is just part of the business. Pharmacists have to have insurance as well (varies state to state).

6. Why are there Internal Medicine Physicians looking at other options such as....

www.mdvip.com

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=17962

This allows physician's to better serve their patients. Spend more time with them and make more money. internists that make around 160-200k are at the lower end of the salary spectrum (for physicians) and this is a way that they can increase profits while improving patient care.

Question... I would really like to know from your perspective what the ADVANTAGES are regarding working as an Internist in America these days?

1) More interesting job with more variability.
2) Better working environment (not stuck in a small cubby standing in one place)
3) Compensation is about 2-3x that of a pharmacist.
4) More career flexibility.

1. Pharmd $100k per year

Although this may be true some of the time, pharmists on avg do not make 100k. Avg salary according to the government (us bureau of labor) is only around 77k/ year. Only the top 10% of pharmacists made more than 94k/year. Heck, I know an internist making ~300k/year who works about 50 hrs/week, but I know that he is way above the average.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos079.htm

2. Length 6 yrs

3. There are careers available wherein the Pharmacist does not and will not be required to work weekends, and or have a Call rotation...

ok, same is true for physicians.

4. Pharmacist work in CLEAN environments, they do not touch body parts, rectal exams, STD's.....etc..

there physians that are like this as well- radiology, anestesiology, physiatry, etc. the only difference is that these guys average 300-400k/year... heh.

 

[dpari]

Internist on average may make 2-3x what a Pharmacist makes? HA

As far as I am concerned and the Internists that I know, overwhelmingly say they would do Pharmacy if they all knew what was required of them to become and Internist. I am not talking about academically, I am talking about Residency and actually working as an Internist.

They all agree that the hours required to earn that desired $150K -180K just is not worth what you lose to yourself and loved ones...

At what price, sacrafice?
Quality of Life = Pharmacist

Pharmacist work 40 hr/wk translates into 100K pr/yr period...

If you have done Residency, you know the exploitative nature of it , and if you have not done Residency yet, enjoy the ride baby!!

To each is own...

haha... you wish that was the difference in pay. internists on avg make about 2-3x what a pharmacist makes.

basically, medical school and pharm school are 4 years long. For internal medicine, you will have to do a 3 years paid residency (40k/year)- but in the end you you will make at least twice as much as a pharmacist and be able to do much more than count pills. I started out as pharmacy, but after working in a pharmacy i saw what it really was. i could not see myself in a monotonous job for the rest of my life. some people can. it's a personal choice.


pharmacy: 6-8 yrs of schooling (
IM: 8 yrs schooling +3 years residency

 

[dpari]

Hi,

Here are some interesting reads for the aspiring Internists here...

http://www.physiciansnews.com/business/204.kalogredis.html

http://home.businesswire.com/portal...d=news_view&newsId=20051102005810&newsLang=en

http://www.danielfrankmd.com/

I believe this is a trend in Medicine that will only continue to grow as the American Healthcare system continues to become more complex, troubled and burdened.

What do you make of this information?

I never once bad mouthed pharmacy but it seems you have no problem doing so to medicine.

I am not going to waste my time replying to your ill-attempted arguments. I presented the facts and you placed judgement upon them. You have also further cemented my comment about your ignorance and I think everyone who reads this can see that.

Question:
Have you even completed your 4th year medicine/Inpatient clerkship? If not, when you get there read this post to your attending Pharmacist and Internist.

 

[fun8stuff]

Internist on average may make 2-3x what a Pharmacist makes? HA

Yes, this is true according to the US bureau of Labor Statistics.
Pharmacists: 77k/year *only top 10% make more than 94k
Internists: 156k/year
All physicians: ~200k/year (range 120k-500+k)

I don't see what you see is wrong with those websites you list. As far as I am concerned it means better care for patients, better pay for physicians, and less work. My friend's uncle is currently in a practice like that ("concierge" medicine) and he is working less and making more. He charges each family like $3-5000/year (like $1000 per person) for basic medical care and he has a smaller patient base- like 100-200 people. I don't know the exact numbers for him. I know he grosses close to a million, but his take home is around half that.

 

[PharmEm]

OK, I'm the OP (original Poster) and I said from the beginning.....

"Please don't bash this thread, I'm not trying to start a Pharmacist vs. Doctor thread"

I didn't start this thread wanting to decide b/t IM and Pharmacy, b/c I plan on being a pharmacist. I just started it b/c I was curious! After reading all the posts, I think I have all the info I need. Thanks for everyone's opinions and thoughts.

P.S. Dentists SUCK! JUST KIDDING! (I say that b/c my brother is going to dental school, hahahaha).

 

[bananaface]

Yes, this is true according to the US bureau of Labor Statistics.
Pharmacists: 77k/year *only top 10% make more than 94k
Internists: 156k/year
All physicians: ~200k/year (range 120k-500+k)

I don't see what you see is wrong with those websites you list. As far as I am concerned it means better care for patients, better pay for physicians, and less work. My friend's uncle is currently in a practice like that ("concierge" medicine) and he is working less and making more. He charges each family like $3-5000/year (like $1000 per person) for basic medical care and he has a smaller patient base- like 100-200 people. I don't know the exact numbers for him. I know he grosses close to a million, but his take home is around half that.

Eh. It's easily 95K starting now at most retail stores. Salaries are rising in pharmacy and those are old numbers. If you figure we take a 25% tax hit while the IM's take 40% in their bracket, you are down to 71.25K vs 96.3K before the physician shells out for malpractice insurance. I have no idea what insurance costs are. It's not such a huge difference unless the IM doc is earning more than standard for the field.

 

[raptor5]

Bananaface. Nice play on numbers. In REALITY the bonuses that are received by salaried internists can push them to about 200K. Of course it depends on partner status, years w/ a group, and/or production. Anyone grossing 200K that pays 40% taxes needs a new accountant. Average salaries for physicians are misleading b/c in private practice most groups zero the books at the end of the year and pay dividends which are not figured into most salary surveys. I will admit it isn't unheard of to hear of a pharmacist getting hired at about 100K and receive a 10% bonus. It's a nice salary for the level of schooling and the job. It is probably he most efficient use of time for the money along w/ the PA profession. People obviously love the money and the profession and that is great. It's not for me though. My wife on the other hand loves pharmacy and could not imagine being a physician.

 

[Butter Pecan]

The ignorance on display here is mind-boggling. I'll hold myself to a couple of comments:

1. At a good residency program, clinical training (and not "exploitation" or scutwork) is the emphasis. Yes you work hard for a few years, but that is because there is much to learn. Believe it or not, there are plenty of residents around who are happy doing what they're doing, and who have lives outside the hospital.

2. Many of us prefer clinical medicine to pharmacy because of the element of patient interaction (physical and verbal), and the wide range of data (pt's history, physical exam, lab data, radiologic data) that one must assemble to arrive at decisions for the patient.

I won't get into the discussion about income. Obviously it's possible to make a lot of money as an internist (esp in cards or GI), and it's possible to make a lot of money as a pharmacist.

Are there things that I wish were different about the health care environment in the US? Of course. Are there restraints on doctors now that were not present 10-20 years ago? Of course. Is medical malpractice a concern for me as a young physician in training? Of course. I know that I could have made more money and worked less by doing something else. But I think that a life in clinical medicine will be most fulfilling for me.

I have a lot of pharmacist friends, and I totally understand why they're doing what they're doing. It's a great life, and obviously an important role to be filled. It's just not what I'm choosing to do. Doesn't make one job more/less important than another, or more/less desirable than another.

BP

 

[dpari]

I respect your position, well put.

-Tavit

The ignorance on display here is mind-boggling. I'll hold myself to a couple of comments:

1. At a good residency program, clinical training (and not "exploitation" or scutwork) is the emphasis. Yes you work hard for a few years, but that is because there is much to learn. Believe it or not, there are plenty of residents around who are happy doing what they're doing, and who have lives outside the hospital.

2. Many of us prefer clinical medicine to pharmacy because of the element of patient interaction (physical and verbal), and the wide range of data (pt's history, physical exam, lab data, radiologic data) that one must assemble to arrive at decisions for the patient.

I won't get into the discussion about income. Obviously it's possible to make a lot of money as an internist (esp in cards or GI), and it's possible to make a lot of money as a pharmacist.

Are there things that I wish were different about the health care environment in the US? Of course. Are there restraints on doctors now that were not present 10-20 years ago? Of course. Is medical malpractice a concern for me as a young physician in training? Of course. I know that I could have made more money and worked less by doing something else. But I think that a life in clinical medicine will be most fulfilling for me.

I have a lot of pharmacist friends, and I totally understand why they're doing what they're doing. It's a great life, and obviously an important role to be filled. It's just not what I'm choosing to do. Doesn't make one job more/less important than another, or more/less desirable than another.

BP