Pharmacy week is depressing

[mustang sally]

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I read a little bit of the forums on pharmacy week today and found it to be highly depressing and negative (as compared to SDN, which is relatively upbeat). I have worked in (non-health care) retail settings, so I can see where retail would not be a picnic, but I think there would be good jobs in other areas. What do you guys think?

 

[Moxxie]

I read a little bit of the forums on pharmacy week today and found it to be highly depressing and negative (as compared to SDN, which is relatively upbeat). I have worked in (non-health care) retail settings, so I can see where retail would not be a picnic, but I think there would be good jobs in other areas. What do you guys think?

Pharmacy Week seems to attract the haters and those disillusioned with the profession as a whole. I read their forums for a while but was turned off by the negativity. If you look up a user named "SlaveRPh" on both SDN and Pharmacy Week you'll see how much he hates the current state of pharmacy (despite the fact that he hasn't actually practiced pharmacy in years). It seems like he'll do anything to dissuade people from becoming pharmacists.

I would just ignore Pharmacy Week in general - people post more often at SDN and are more likely to actually help you out.

 

[Requiem]

If it's predominantly retail, then I'd say that's your reason. To be honest, I preface this with a "in my experience", I've only met 1 retail pharmacist who I think truly enjoyed their job. The typical practice situation sucks, no wonder they're venting. I guess if you adamantly state you're not going to deal with insurance, not going to count pills, not going to wait on hold for 15 mins every 2 hours, then it may be less stressful. Unfortunately most seemed to get tied down with these tedious tasks, opposed to counselling/reviewing profiles & disease state info/recommending meds.

The whole concept of "no time to even go to the bathroom" is a joke, I have no idea where someones spine went when they agreed to that. Take your mandated work breaks and proceed at your own pace when you return. Maybe complaints would force the hiring of another tech or something, don't let them drive you into the ground.

 

[Hels2007]

If it's predominantly retail, then I'd say that's your reason. To be honest, I preface this with a "in my experience", I've only met 1 retail pharmacist who I think truly enjoyed their job.

Interestingly, I worked with a lot of pharmacists who enjoy their job... I don't mind retail, I just don't think I could do it full-time long term... I have been with Walgreen's part-time for over 5 years and I like it. For the first two years I was actually extatic and thought it was the nicest job ever - but that's because my previous one was in customer service for a cell phone company. Unless you had to take calls from disgruntled customers 8 hours a day in a cramped call center with no lunch but 10 minute breaks every 2 hours instead, and your every movement being timed... now THAT sucks.

 

[july]

that and they have an awful interface so reading messages is a pain in the arse. But there do seem to be a lot of unhappy pharmacists in the world. That, in and of itself, is depressing.

 

[Glowwyrm]

But there do seem to be a lot of unhappy pharmacists in the world. That, in and of itself, is depressing.

I always find myself wondering what they did before pharmacy. Or, if they went straight from highschool -> college -> pharm school -> working as a pharmacist. I think having had a few really crappy jobs will (hopefully) make me appreciate pharmacy.

 

[july]

I like my job a lot but I work in a hospital. There are some very hectic retail jobs out there as I'm sure people here can attest to. Having a few crappy pharmacy jobs can help you appreciate a good pharmacy job. I worked in two different retail settings as an intern and hated both of them - I dreaded going to work. Both experiences weren't fun at the time but it taught me a lot about what I don't want in a job.

 

[psurocks]

If it's predominantly retail, then I'd say that's your reason. To be honest, I preface this with a "in my experience", I've only met 1 retail pharmacist who I think truly enjoyed their job. The typical practice situation sucks, no wonder they're venting. I guess if you adamantly state you're not going to deal with insurance, not going to count pills, not going to wait on hold for 15 mins every 2 hours, then it may be less stressful. Unfortunately most seemed to get tied down with these tedious tasks, opposed to counselling/reviewing profiles & disease state info/recommending meds.

The whole concept of "no time to even go to the bathroom" is a joke, I have no idea where someones spine went when they agreed to that. Take your mandated work breaks and proceed at your own pace when you return. Maybe complaints would force the hiring of another tech or something, don't let them drive you into the ground.

my experience with retail has been fine so far as intern, and the pharmacist i work with like their job

dont get the big deal bout being on hold....you call em, put it on the intercom, and attend to other matters until someone picks up.....counting pills is part of the job(i think its better than the hospital pharmacist who has to check those medication drawers each day (thatd drive me crazy)).....and bout pts, ive yet to meet any really rude pt, if their ins. rejects the rx drug, i call the company right in front of them and tell them why, they appreciate it this and i find that whenever i do this, they are more likey to be well behaved customers

counseling on otc, telling pts what drug to take for simple health conditions, etc are also a good part of the job

all in all, i dont mind retail at all so far (granted, only been working for a yr)

 

[rxlynn]

I always find myself wondering what they did before pharmacy. Or, if they went straight from highschool -> college -> pharm school -> working as a pharmacist. I think having had a few really crappy jobs will (hopefully) make me appreciate pharmacy.

I think this is a really important point. Pharmacy will be a second (maybe third depending on how you count it) career for me, and that gives me a bit of a different perspective on how bad or good the retail pharmacy setting is. I truly believe there are some people who will complain and be unhappy in whatever type of job situation they find themselves in. Also, maybe some of the people who are unhappy and went straight from school to pharmacy just haven't had the opportunity or time yet to figure out what sort of work setting best suits them. I know it took me a lot of years to figure that one out for me.

 

[meg]

If you guys have any suggestions for improvement, feel free to email [email protected].

 

[Old Timer]

In general the problem with Pharmacists today is the problem with our entire society. It is also the main reason people are so unhappy. There is a complete lack of gratitude for what they have. There is no perspective when you have kids coming out of school and making $100,000.00 per year. What job lacks stress? Every single profession from policeman to school teacher to doctor to pharmacist has stress.

I will admit there are times when practicing pharmacy in a community setting (A.K.A. retail) is stressful. You have to deal with ungrateful American public who expects if they buy a roll of toilet paper you should follow them home and wipe their a$$.

I have been doing this for twenty five years. I have never, ever, ever been denied the use of a rest room. You just walk away. Tell your staff, "excuse me, I'll be back in a couple of minutes". There are times in a busy day where I take a mental health break, just get out of the pharmacy for a minute or two. I started out making $26,000.00 per year and now I make almost five times that. That works out to an average of 14% per year. Do you think inflation has gone up that much.

In general my advice is to shut up and get to work. If the stress is that bad, change where you work. But more importantly, get some perspective. There are people who have gone through Auschwitz and are happier than people who have gone through pharmacy school. Get a grip people.

Appreciate what you have, accoring to Wikipedia:
In 2006, the median annual household income according to the US Census Bureau was determined to be $48,201.[3] The median income per household member (including all working and non-working members above the age of 14) in the year 2006 was $26,036.[4] In the year 2005, there were approximately 113,146,000 households in the United States. 19.01% of all households had annual incomes exceeding $100,000,[5]

Remember this is household income, not individual income. Most pharmacists income exceeds the top 20% of households in the USA. What happens if you marry/cohabitate with person of similar economic means?

 

[Glowwyrm]

In general the problem with Pharmacists today is the problem with our entire society. It is also the main reason people are so unhappy. There is a complete lack of gratitude for what they have. There is no perspective when you have kids coming out of school and making $100,000.00 per year. What job lacks stress? Every single profession from policeman to school teacher to doctor to pharmacist has stress.
*snip*
In general my advice is to shut up and get to work. If the stress is that bad, change where you work. But more importantly, get some perspective. There are people who have gone through Auschwitz and are happier than people who have gone through pharmacy school. Get a grip people.

*applause* Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[mustang sally]

Very well said, Old Timer. Thanks for posting.👍

 

[DHG]

Not defending anyone's negativity, but there is probably some validity to the complaints. The current practice model in corporate retail chain stores IS depressing. There are so many things that are just wrong on so many levels. A lot of it are things that the pharmacist feels completely unempowered to change. Of course a more productive way to deal would be to take some focused action to try and change the model (or at least participate in some kind of productive conversations about how to make things better with other pharmacists), and there's always the control one has over one's attitude, but I guess it's just easier to bitch about it.

So the comments on Pharmacy Times are depressing. Well, there are some things about pharmacy practice that are depressing too. Sticking your head in the sand or putting on the rose colored glasses won't make those things go away. But then, just complaining about them won't help either. I'm just thinking out loud. I'm not even considering income in this equation, really just the 'soft' numbers; job satisfaction, etc., so the "shut up and get to work" type comments aren't really helpful. Although you did make some good points, old-timer, about attitudes in general. I agree with you there, that in general people seem less grateful for what they have these days.

 

[Old Timer]

So the comments on Pharmacy Times are depressing. Well, there are some things about pharmacy practice that are depressing too. Sticking your head in the sand or putting on the rose colored glasses won't make those things go away. But then, just complaining about them won't help either. I'm just thinking out loud. I'm not even considering income in this equation, really just the 'soft' numbers; job satisfaction, etc., so the "shut up and get to work" type comments aren't really helpful. Although you did make some good points, old-timer, about attitudes in general. I agree with you there, that in general people seem less grateful for what they have these days.

What do you want your job to be? Check 100 scripts a day, get an hour off for lunch, no nights no weekends, no holidays and 100 K per year. My answer stands. Get on with it or get out. Go be a school teacher. Start at 40K per year or maybe a policeman at 40 K per year and the added bonus of getting shot at. There are so many options to choose from. Don't like retail, there is always managed care, hospice, hospital, ambulatory care, compounding. GO work somewhere else.

CVS/Walgreens/Walmart/Costco, etc are paying you over 100K per year. Shut up and earn it. You really have three choices:

1. Change it
2. Leave it
3. Accept it

Whine about it is NOT A VALID CHOICE!!
​

 

[Caverject]

What do you want your job to be? Check 100 scripts a day, get an hour off for lunch, no nights no weekends, no holidays and 100 K per year. My answer stands. Get on with it or get out. Go be a school teacher. Start at 40K per year or maybe a policeman at 40 K per year and the added bonus of getting shot at. There are so many options to choose from. Don't like retail, there is always managed care, hospice, hospital, ambulatory care, compounding. GO work somewhere else.

CVS/Walgreens/Walmart/Costco, etc are paying you over 100K per year. Shut up and earn it. You really have three choices:

1. Change it
2. Leave it
3. Accept it

Whine about it is NOT A VALID CHOICE!!
​

Do you have any posts where you don't pontificate your opinion? I'm just curious...thanks

 

[DHG]

What do you want your job to be? Check 100 scripts a day, get an hour off for lunch, no nights no weekends, no holidays and 100 K per year. My answer stands. Get on with it or get out. Go be a school teacher. Start at 40K per year or maybe a policeman at 40 K per year and the added bonus of getting shot at. There are so many options to choose from. Don't like retail, there is always managed care, hospice, hospital, ambulatory care, compounding. GO work somewhere else.

CVS/Walgreens/Walmart/Costco, etc are paying you over 100K per year. Shut up and earn it. You really have three choices:

1. Change it
2. Leave it
3. Accept it

Whine about it is NOT A VALID CHOICE!!
​

I think I am (essentially) in agreement with you. (So why are you yelling at me?? ) I don't think whining is constructive (though it probably helps to blow of some steam from time to time, we all do it).

I was just making the point that there are some valid complaints about the practice model in general. So while I don't defend anyone's whiny attitude, I do think there are some valid things to complain about. So yeah, there is some valid negativity. Make sense? Whining about it won't help, no. Change it, Accept it, or Leave it. Yes. I would add Talk About It ro your list.

 

[sdn1977]

What do you want your job to be? Check 100 scripts a day, get an hour off for lunch, no nights no weekends, no holidays and 100 K per year. My answer stands. Get on with it or get out. Go be a school teacher. Start at 40K per year or maybe a policeman at 40 K per year and the added bonus of getting shot at. There are so many options to choose from. Don't like retail, there is always managed care, hospice, hospital, ambulatory care, compounding. GO work somewhere else.

CVS/Walgreens/Walmart/Costco, etc are paying you over 100K per year. Shut up and earn it. You really have three choices:

1. Change it
2. Leave it
3. Accept it

Whine about it is NOT A VALID CHOICE!!
​

Old Timer - you & I have a distinctly differnt perspective!

I don't agree with the yelling (do you realize that you are yelling at someone when you write in all caps, particularly in a large font with color?).

I'm actually surprised the mods allow you to be so aggressive. When I was an advisor, I was beat down when I challenged anyone, yet you do so in such an aggrressive manner. They must have changed their perspective.

I would not work for any money for Walgreens or CVS - why? They are known as awful employers in my state (CA) & have gone on record as being employee unfriendly before the state board.

But, there is nothing wrong in your perspective. You believe it. But, the rest of us may not (including me).

The whole process of change is a difficult & long one. In CA it took 10 years to get a change to get a lunch break which allowed the pharmacist to either close the pharmacy or to leave a tech (which the pharmacist trusts) to man the pharmacy in CA. Unnecessary stress is just that - unnecessary!

Change is not an easy process & to be so cocky, as you appear online, & as someone else said "pontificating" diminishes what these kids think is important. What they feel is important - it just may not be what you feel is important.

Whining is part of that process of change. First you whine, then you find a group which agrees with your whine, then your group into a PACT then you lobby & become politically active. Look at the NAPLEX threads - there is lots of whining which is valid, yet it won't change a thing. But - in the end, these students may become active in process of licensing - who knows?

Why would you want to diminish their input? It may improve the actual practice of pharmacy!!

Change can be good - give it a chance!

 

[PharmDstudent]

Do you have any posts where you don't pontificate your opinion? I'm just curious...thanks

That's exactly why I stopped posting. I think Old Timer should step down.

 

[ShannonIV]

Echoing what others have said. OldTimer, you are most certainly entitled to your opinion but putting in in 18 font, boldd, underlined and in a different color doesn't help to change our perspectives. Yelling is generally not a good strategy to win people over to your side.

SDN, you have a very rational posting style and I find it much easier to read and disagree with than something written in loud, obnoxious fonts and styles.

we all have a right to complain. Money isn't everything and money doesn't equal job satisfaction or happiness in general. This is well-known. Just because someone doesn't feel satisfied in their high-paying job, does not mean that they cannot or should not voice their discontent.

It's not as if we went to school for a 6 mo training program, we've invested lots of money and time into pharmacy and simply walking away without making a fuss about working conditions would be a foolish way to get out of the profession.

 

[sdn1977]

SDN, you have a very rational posting style and I find it much easier to read and disagree with than something written in loud, obnoxious fonts and styles.

Shannon - I'm so glad I have a style of posting which makes it easier to disagree ......j/king!

Seriously.....this should be a discussion. Disagreeement can be inherient (sp?) within a discussion & can be constructive if done with all parties agreeing to disagree perhaps. I know what I would say if a boss of mine told me to "shut up & work", but that is obviously one individual's opinion. However, it does not lend itself to a discussion of workplace factors.

I hope there is some place within the profession on which we can agree - but, who knows???? I'm always willing to type (much to Caverject's &
Epic's dismay😳).

 

[Old Timer]

First of all yelling is all caps where I come from. Secondly, I apologize to anyone if I you feel I yelled at you. But where I will not back down is the essence and central point of my post.

1) Pharmacists today are not appreciative of what they have. This is the golden age of pharmacy (financially) and you should be grateful for the fact you can earn what you earn fresh out of school.

2) You cannot be happy as a pharmacist or a person without gratitude. Those people who spend their lives without gratitude are going to be unhappy. Being grateful for what you have does not mean you can not improve on what you have. There are people who lived in the depression who were grateful for an apple. That does not mean they settled for an apple. We live in the most amazing country in the history of humanity, for most of us we are financially well off compared to most of the people in the country not to say the rest of the world. We fail to appreciate what we have.

3) Whining does nothing to change your situation. Whining is for children. Adults recognize what is wrong with the situation and do one of the three things I suggested and change it is one of them. I have experienced dramatic changes in the practice of pharmacy and I have embraced them. I'm glad I no longer have to lick the back of the labels before I attach them to the bottles. I sure do like the fact I no longer have to type patient profiles. Yes, I Kept those records by hand before computers. On the other hand I wish it wasn't volume oriented. I wish the society would recognize that pharmacists do more than put pills in the bottle. I wish insurance companies would recognize it costs more than $1.25 to dispense a prescription. I have been involved in associations and political activity to attempt to ameliorate this.

I worked in independent pharmacies for 19 years. If you told me I would end up at CVS I would have suggested a drug test or a psychiatric evaluation.
Here is what I had as an independent:

• Work every other weekend.
• No overtime
• No annual increases
• Two weeks vacation
• No Bonus

Here is what I get from CVS:

• Work every fourth weekend
• Overtime (though not time and a half)
• Annual increases averaging almost 12% per year.
• Bonuses
• Three weeks vacation
• Stock Options
• Trained to give injections (CVS picked up the cost)
• Professional development.

Not once in the six years I have been with CVS has anyone above me stopped me, admonished me, counseled me for spending time counseling patients. I have dozens of letters in my personnel folder from patients who took the time to write to the corporate office and say nice things about the service I have offered. I love the practice of pharmacy. I love practicing in the community setting because of the number of people you see in a day. Is it a challenge in these economic times to do everything I want to do, sure it is. But as a pharmacist you do what you have to do. I have no idea what goes on in California. I know what goes on in Philadelphia and CVS is a great place to work.

So feel free to disagree. I prefer clarity to agreement anyway. But I'm telling you all, without gratitude you will not be happy. Life is too short to be happy.

 

[sdn1977]

Old Timer, you've made your point. In fact - you made your point awhile back.

Some will agree & some will disagree. However, your continued insistence to have these student's stop their whining/disagreeing/complaining, IMO, is not beneficial and as some have said - they've stopped listening.

To me it sounds as though you're telling them to be quiet & enjoy what they have. Personally, I don't what them to be quiet if they perceive something is wrong in the profession. I want them to continually reach out & change the profession & although they may be satisfied & happy - wanting to find change to what they perceive is a negative issue in the profession is a good thing to me. If it comes with whining or complaining - then fine - I'm a child of the "hippy" age. We complained plenty and some of us still do while staying active professionally in changes. You just don't choose that route.

We can talk about how different things were 30 years ago (sorry - 25 in your case). Yep, I rolled labels in platens (never licked them though) & hand wrote patient profiles.

But, I came from a school which was one of the few who saw things that were not good in pharmacy and encouraged us to be a force for change - not to be happy with the status quo. Not every pharmacist agreed & some in fact were outright angry & rude about having pharmacist go just a bit farther professionally, insist on better working conditions & currently, deal with better staffing ratios (this is a very, very large source of complaint which will eventually become legislated in my state). This is the way the profession has always been - there are lots of ways to effect change - voicing strong & disagreeing opinions (an adult form of complaining) is one way.

I was allowed to whine, complain, stretch & reach - each in its own time & I took the consequences of all the actions I took. I found my own happiness during that process & can honestly say I've been happy each of my 30 years of work. I still speak out strongly in my state when I see things I don't like professionally. That does not equate to my unhappiness or being ungrateful.

Each one of these students will find their professional happiness & satisfaction - all on their own. They don't need us to tell them to be happy or satisfied, IMO.

You've found a great place to end your career - likewise, I've found mine. But - I disagree that these students need to be admonished to be grateful. They can choose that personal quality for themselves. Likewise - their own path to happiness is their own.

When I work with a young pharmacist, I try to think - am I empowering this person to be the very best (which means questioning each & every thing that is done while still working within the corporate framework) or am I "telling" the person what to do?

I'd rather empower that individual to find a new solution, to see things with a new set of eyes, bring me up to date when I fall behind & be willing to learn from experience which they don't yet have or from things which are done in different parts of the country. That is how I mentor, but perhaps that is not how you choose to (obviously, you don't know what is going on in CA). Neither one is right nor wrong - it just is - different.

Each one of us are adults, are equal in our professional stature. I would never tell you that as a BS pharmacist (whom I don't even know if you are or not) you're not as qualified as I am as a PharmD pharmacist. That not only would be wrong, it would be hurtful. Why are you then telling me how I should be grateful & this is the path to happiness (in my eyes - "settling" for CVS?). That is also wrong & hurtful since that is not the path I chose. So - why do it to these students?

If it appears hurtful to me - how can it not to them (particularly when you call them childish which anyone would object to)?

Perhaps in your fervor, you miswrote & if you did, then yes - I would agree that life is too short to be - "unhappy". Beyond that - your experience is your own & mine is different. I'm happy these students will go on to have an entirely different experience than you or I have had.

I'd offer that perhaps we need to be willing to let them have that opportunity with our support. They might find our thoughts more useful knowing we support them rather than telling them they're wrong.

Just my thoughts....but....I fear.....most have stopped reading.

 

[Jitaka]

Just my thoughts....but....I fear.....most have stopped reading.

Nope, I read your entire post and I agree with your philosophy of change 🙂

 

[Caverject]

I worked in independent pharmacies for 19 years. If you told me I would end up at CVS I would have suggested a drug test or a psychiatric evaluation.
Here is what I had as an independent:

• Work every other weekend.
• No overtime
• No annual increases
• Two weeks vacation
• No Bonus

Here is what I get from CVS:

• Work every fourth weekend
• Overtime (though not time and a half)
• Annual increases averaging almost 12% per year.
• Bonuses
• Three weeks vacation
• Stock Options
• Trained to give injections (CVS picked up the cost)
• Professional development.

Not once in the six years I have been with CVS has anyone above me stopped me, admonished me, counseled me for spending time counseling patients. I have dozens of letters in my personnel folder from patients who took the time to write to the corporate office and say nice things about the service I have offered. I love the practice of pharmacy. I love practicing in the community setting because of the number of people you see in a day. Is it a challenge in these economic times to do everything I want to do, sure it is. But as a pharmacist you do what you have to do. I have no idea what goes on in California. I know what goes on in Philadelphia and CVS is a great place to work.

Wait a second...

You worked in independent pharmacy in 19 years but never owned your own store?

 

[Old Timer]

Wait a second...

You worked in independent pharmacy in 19 years but never owned your own store?

Nope, I worked in my stepfathers store for years and a few different practice settings. Then I worked for someone who was like a father to me. Had the right of first refusal to buy the store. One block from my house. The ideal location. He would take back the paper. Everything was set. Then the chains went wild buying stores and Thrift (AKA, Eckerd) offered $250,000.00 more than me. I couldn't ask him to take less, it was his retirement. So he sold out to Eckerd and I went to another local independent before heading off to greener financial pastures at CVS.....

 

[BMBiology]

Then the chains went wild buying stores and Thrift (AKA, Eckerd) offered $250,000.00 more than me. I couldn't ask him to take less, it was his retirement. So he sold out to Eckerd and I went to another local independent before heading off to greener financial pastures at CVS.....

Didn't you blame the PBMs for destroying your "dream job"? It sounds like you lost it to the chains.

 

[Old Timer]

Didn't you blame the PBMs for destroying your "dream job"? It sounds like you lost it to the chains.

Boy oh boy.. I know you don't like me but you really should to read what I said and not read into it. The chains didn't do anything to destroy my dream job. Thrift just had deeper pockets than I did. They didn't cause the situation, they just took advantage of the circumstances. I could not afford to borrow enough money to make it feasible at the low rates of reimbursement offered by the PBM's.... I stand by what I said in the other post PBM's have destroyed the profession, not the chains....

 

[BMBiology]

I could not afford to borrow enough money to make it feasible at the low rates of reimbursement offered by the PBM's

You couldn't get enough loans from the bank to outbid the chains and you blame that on the PBMs? You can't be serious.

 

[Old Timer]

BMBiology:
I'm am not going to have this discussion with you. You have such vast experience in business management and you have practiced pharmacy for so long, there is nothing I could add to your obvious mastery of the subject. I bow to your superior knowledge of the history of pharmacy reimbursement. Especially since this has absolutely nothing to do with the original post, I will not continue to engage you.

 

[BMBiology]

if you are going to complain about the PBMs then members of this forum also have the right to voice their displeasure about the chains. Lets be fair.

 

[MSG]

pharmacy for a minute or two. I started out making $26,000.00 per year and now I make almost five times that. That works out to an average of 14% per year. Do you think inflation has gone up that much.

Actually, you're wrong. If you almost make 5x your initial salary, and that was 25 years ago, your average salary growth per annum is 6.5%. Think about it, if you got a 14% salary increase every year, you would have way quadrupled your salary in 11 years. Just do the math in a spreadsheet if you're bad with math, or just raise 1.14 to the 25th power to see what I mean.

By the way, inflation has averaged 4% per annum for the past 30 years. Considering a fresh Pharm.D can expect to make 80,000k average in 2006, that's not much higher than the rate of inflation vs. your starting salary of 26k 25 years ago.

 

[Epic]

Actually, you're wrong. If you almost make 5x your initial salary, and that was 25 years ago, your average salary growth per annum is 6.5%. Think about it, if you got a 14% salary increase every year, you would have way quadrupled your salary in 11 years. Just do the math in a spreadsheet if you're bad with math, or just raise 1.14 to the 25th power to see what I mean.

By the way, inflation has averaged 4% per annum for the past 30 years. Considering a fresh Pharm.D can expect to make 80,000k average in 2006, that's not much higher than the rate of inflation vs. your starting salary of 26k 25 years ago.

Actually, you're wrong. A fresh PharmD in 2006 made more than $80,000 average.

 

[cycloketocaine]

Actually, you're wrong. A fresh PharmD in 2006 made more than $80,000 average.

I plan on making eleventy billion dollars when I graduate.

 

[MSG]

Actually, you're wrong. A fresh PharmD in 2006 made more than $80,000 average.

Actually:

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos079.htm#earnings

If you want to get specific, $84,900. So, i'm off $4900, whoop dee doo. That includes the averages of ALL pharmacists. I'm more inclined to believe an entry level Pharm.D makes $80k.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Actually:

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos079.htm#earnings

If you want to get specific, $84,900. So, i'm off $4900, whoop dee doo. That includes the averages of ALL pharmacists. I'm more inclined to believe an entry level Pharm.D makes $80k.

That's 2004. Don't forget that people work part-time too.

 

[Epic]

Actually:

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos079.htm#earnings

If you want to get specific, $84,900. So, i'm off $4900, whoop dee doo. That includes the averages of ALL pharmacists. I'm more inclined to believe an entry level Pharm.D makes $80k.

What's the matter? Can't you read?

Median annual wage and salary earnings of pharmacists in May 2004 were $84,900. The middle 50 percent earned between $75,720 and $94,850 a year. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $61,200, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $109,850 a year. Median annual earnings in the industries employing the largest numbers of pharmacists in May 2004 were:

 

[Old Timer]

Actually, you're wrong. If you almost make 5x your initial salary, and that was 25 years ago, your average salary growth per annum is 6.5%. Think about it, if you got a 14% salary increase every year, you would have way quadrupled your salary in 11 years. Just do the math in a spreadsheet if you're bad with math, or just raise 1.14 to the 25th power to see what I mean.

By the way, inflation has averaged 4% per annum for the past 30 years. Considering a fresh Pharm.D can expect to make 80,000k average in 2006, that's not much higher than the rate of inflation vs. your starting salary of 26k 25 years ago.

Not the way I do math. For round figures. If the initial salary is 25K per year and the salary now is 125K that is a 400% increase over the starting or initial salary. Each 25K increase is 100% of the initial 25K

Initial salary = 25 K
Present Salary = 125K
Increase is (125-25)= 100K gross dollars NOT a percentage
% increase (100/25)*100=400%
AVG annual % increase=20%

You cant take the gross dollar increase and divide it by the years of service and get a percentage.

Also, by the way, at $80,000.00 per year that would be $1.538.46 per week and at 40 hours per week that would be $38.46 per hour. I know of very few PharmD's that are getting $38.50 per hour. I know retail pays more, but I don't think they are paying that much more. The entry level retail PharmD in the Philadelphia market is getting 100K per year, round figures.

 

[BMBiology]

Not the way I do math. For round figures. If the initial salary is 25K per year and the salary now is 125K that is a 400% increase over the starting or initial salary.

I hate to point out the obvious but you are wrong. While it is true that your salary increased 400% over a period of 25 years (25K to 125K) but to say you make an annual increase of 14% each year for 25 years is just bad math.

This is why:

Year 1: $25,000
Year 2: $28,500 = $25,000 + (25,000*0.14)
Year 3: $32,500 = $28,500 + (28,500*0.14)
-
-
-
Year 25: $580,305

Now, you are only making $125,000 and that is certainly not close to $580,305. You can disagree with me about other topics and that is fine but I dont think you can dispute the math. If you are going to be defensive, dont bother replying to my post.

 

[no-see-um]

what was the original topic again? Oh yeah, I read pharmacy week all the time! Sometimes you need to get another sampling of pharmacists and pharmacy students. But I prefer the ones on this site. 🙂

 

[Epic]

Pharmacyweek Message board is very censored. I wasn't censored but some of the posters are. Their message is reviewed by PW before it's posted.

There are 2 or 3 main posters there now.

SlaveRph and I go way back. He actually faked his death once on another board... which he got caught red handed. I'll post it for you guys one day if I get bored. Slave is very bitter... he is anti government, anti prostitution..anti foreigners... anti everything. He's been preaching gloom and doom for pharmacy forever. He doesn't like PharmD. He sure doesn't like me.

INDPharm was a hospital pharmacist who argued with SlaveRph for years until he got laid off from his hospital job. Now he and Slaver are buddies...
He was a retail pharmacist....who moved to hospital and claimed he's seen the light. But now I'm not sure where he stands.

Lynn is a retail pharmacist with a nice blog.

Actually...you can go back a few years and see many of Zpacksux posts...

 

[Old Timer]

I hate to point out the obvious but you are wrong. While it is true that your salary increased 400% over a period of 25 years (25K to 125K) but to say you make an annual increase of 14% each year for 25 years is just bad math.

This is why:

Year 1: $25,000
Year 2: $28,500 = $25,000 + (25,000*0.14)
Year 3: $32,500 = $28,500 + (28,500*0.14)
-
-
-
Year 25: $580,305

Now, you are only making $125,000 and that is certainly not close to $580,305. You can disagree with me about other topics and that is fine but I dont think you can dispute the math. If you are going to be defensive, dont bother replying to my post.

We will just have to chalk this up to Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics. I assume you are a student and as such you live in the theoretical world. You are making the assumption that each year you get the same % increase and the result will compound. In the real world, you get no raise some years and small raise other years and then you get a 25% increase one year. I just averaged the % increase over the years of service. It's just a different way of looking at the same numbers. What I did not point out is the majority of the increase came in the last six years when I went from Independent to Chain and my salary went from under 60,000 to more than double that. That means 60% of the increase was in the last six years. Your formula while mathematically accurate was based on a flawed assumption.

 

[BMBiology]

Your formula while mathematically accurate was based on a flawed assumption.

These are your words:

I started out making $26,000.00 per year and now I make almost five times that. That works out to an average of 14% per year.

The only flawed assumption I made is thinking you would be big enough to admit you made a mistake. I think people would respect you more if you would just be honest with them.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Actually:

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos079.htm#earnings

If you want to get specific, $84,900. So, i'm off $4900, whoop dee doo. That includes the averages of ALL pharmacists. I'm more inclined to believe an entry level Pharm.D makes $80k.

Thats funny, besides the fact that the statistics is from 2004, and a good percentage of pharmacists work part time, or get compensated off the books. CVS offered me 115k off the bat starting, with an average of 25k in bonuses. I guess they havent heard that the average for starting is only 85k. .