PhD after MD or DO?

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Led Zep

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How often to physicians go on to earn a PhD after earning their MD or DO (outside of dual degree programs)?

Also along those lines, how long does it take to earn a PhD after earning a masters? I know the time is variable but I was wondering if their was an average. How long would a PhD in biomedical science take for instance?

I know this is all a bit of a stretch but these answer would really help me out?
Thanks, SDN!
 
PhD in science takes an average of 6 years no matter what the situation. Masters counts for little to nothing. I have my masters and the PhD portion of my MD/PhD program is not at all shortened. The experience I got from the MS is the only thing helpful there. There may be some cases where your coursework will transfer, but the coursework pales in comparison to the research requirements. It's really the success of your research that determines how long it takes, as well as your advisor. Some PI's shoot for 4 years, others are known to keep people for as long as they possibly can.

PhD after MD is just a dumb move. You can do research like a PhD does without going through so many more years of school. Just do a post-doc after med school.
 
Led Zep said:
How often to physicians go on to earn a PhD after earning their MD or DO (outside of dual degree programs)?

Also along those lines, how long does it take to earn a PhD after earning a masters? I know the time is variable but I was wondering if their was an average. How long would a PhD in biomedical science take for instance?

I know this is all a bit of a stretch but these answer would really help me out?
Thanks, SDN!
Click to expand...


If you feel the need to do this to yourself, do it through a dual degree program. Through a dual degree program a PhD takes 3 years, and generally these program pay for all of your tuition for both the PhD and medical school. Outside of medical school a PhD takes 6 years (average, it can be anywhere from 4-10) regardless of what other degrees you hold and you get no tuition covered.
 
And have fun while your med school loans pile up in interest. It's a bad idea. Either do the PhD first or do them together via a MD/PhD.
 
Led Zep said:
How often to physicians go on to earn a PhD after earning their MD or DO (outside of dual degree programs)?

Also along those lines, how long does it take to earn a PhD after earning a masters? I know the time is variable but I was wondering if their was an average. How long would a PhD in biomedical science take for instance?

I know this is all a bit of a stretch but these answer would really help me out?
Thanks, SDN!
Click to expand...

I'd really have to question the motivation of someone who wanted to do a PhD after an MD/DO program. Besides the obvious money considerations, what would you intend to do with a separate PhD program that couldn't be done with a combined MD/PhD program or just the MD alone? Seems like a waste of med school.

You're either putting off your residency or full income working years by 6, which doesn't make any sense.
 
Led Zep said:
How often to physicians go on to earn a PhD after earning their MD or DO (outside of dual degree programs)?
Click to expand...

Almost never, because it generally makes zero sense to do so. The only time I have personally seen a physician get a PhD was when a foreign MD was granted a position in a specially formulated "research/residency" track that culminated in a PhD. Basically he was the department chair's lab monkey, but he got to come to the US and stick around long enough to fulfill residency training requirements.

Come to think of it, there used to be at least one formal research-heavy residency program that granted a PhD. U Maryland, perhaps? Perhaps it still exists. Perhaps there are others.
 
Ponger said:
I'd really have to question the motivation of someone who wanted to do a PhD after an MD/DO program. Besides the obvious money considerations, what would you intend to do with a separate PhD program that couldn't be done with a combined MD/PhD program or just the MD alone? Seems like a waste of med school.

You're either putting off your residency or full income working years by 6, which doesn't make any sense.
Click to expand...

You absolutely will not be doing a PhD in between medical school and residency, it would be career suicide. Taking even a 1 year break between medical school and residency make you difficult to market, taking a 6 year break would basically make you untouchable for residencies. Either you need to do it before medical school, as a combined MD/PhD, or after residency.
 
I thought most straight PhD programs take on average 3 to 4 years, some only 2 years.
 
web2linc said:
I thought most straight PhD programs take on average 3 to 4 years, some only 2 years.
Click to expand...

LOL, you my friend have got your information all wrong. Straight PhD takes 5 or more years. You're pretty much at the mercy of your doctorate committee who will decide if you've "done" enough worth getting a PhD for. Plus, many PIs treat their grad students as glorified servants and free labor so that they can get tenure and what not. So no, 2 years? Please... maybe in art history or some other BS dept but not in the sciences. :laugh:
 
The doctor that I work for did his PhD in cell biology during his orthopedic surgery residency. Probably unnecessary, but he's the chairman of one of the huge Institutes at the Cleveland Clinic now so I guess it worked out for him haha.
 
i also knew a guy who was doing his PhD during residency. it did seem like it kinda sucked for him because he had to take classes with us first year grad students and he already had his MD! but i am sure he had his reasons for doing it. what they were, i couldn't tell you . . .
 
Ischemic said:
LOL, you my friend have got your information all wrong. Straight PhD takes 5 or more years. You're pretty much at the mercy of your doctorate committee who will decide if you've "done" enough worth getting a PhD for. Plus, many PIs treat their grad students as glorified servants and free labor so that they can get tenure and what not. So no, 2 years? Please... maybe in art history or some other BS dept but not in the sciences. :laugh:
Click to expand...

Actually the liberal arts degrees take the longest, averaging about 10 years. It's only the sciences that actually average just a little over 5. After all, the science profs know that eventually their students will get sick of their crap and jump to professional school or the job market, so they might as well graduate them, but where's an art history major going to go?
 
Ischemic said:
LOL, you my friend have got your information all wrong. Straight PhD takes 5 or more years. You're pretty much at the mercy of your doctorate committee who will decide if you've "done" enough worth getting a PhD for. Plus, many PIs treat their grad students as glorified servants and free labor so that they can get tenure and what not. So no, 2 years? Please... maybe in art history or some other BS dept but not in the sciences. :laugh:
Click to expand...
if you take more than 5 years, then you should kill yourself
 
Kaustikos said:
if you take more than 5 years, then you should kill yourself
Click to expand...

Interesting story: at my undergrad there was one department chair who had a rule that no PhD candidate in his department could take more than 5 years. If they didn't finish by then they left without a diploma (they generally finished). His reason was that when he was in graduate school, he had once seen a professor keep a particularly talented/irreplaceable graduate student from graduating for 10 full years, even while graduating more expendable labor. At the end of the student's 10th year the student asked to defend his thesis and, when the professor once again refused, he shot the prof in the head.
 
I know some schools offer the option after your 2nd year before your rotations to pursue a PhD or mph of you wish. This is something i am really considering if i get in.
 
My PI did a PhD at MIT - while finishing up his residency. But then again the magnitude of his baller status exceeds most.

Most people I know prefer PhD first (e.g. no massive debt) and then the MD. You have more wisdom, scientific knowledge, and emotional maturity when you enter medicine.
 
I am almost done with my PhD now. They take A LOT of time....although I'm sure the person does exist who can complete the degree post medical education, I would imagine they are an outlier.

Doctoral degrees, especially in the hard and experimental sciences are a significant time commitment, although I wish the best to anyone who wants to try!
 
erikreinertsen said:
My PI did a PhD at MIT - while finishing up his residency. But then again the magnitude of his baller status exceeds most.

Most people I know prefer PhD first (e.g. no massive debt) and then the MD. You have more wisdom, scientific knowledge, and emotional maturity when you enter medicine.
Click to expand...


I know of a PI who did his MD after his PhD, while running a lab😱


My father is one of the outliers who got a PhD after his MD, but he was a IMG (didn't do residency/practice in the US) and went back to Japan eventually.
 
kami333 said:
I know of a PI who did his MD after his PhD, while running a lab😱


My father is one of the outliers who got a PhD after his MD, but he was a IMG (didn't do residency/practice in the US) and went back to Japan eventually.
Click to expand...

WOW! Thats crazy!
 
kami333 said:
I know of a PI who did his MD after his PhD, while running a lab😱


My father is one of the outliers who got a PhD after his MD, but he was a IMG (didn't do residency/practice in the US) and went back to Japan eventually.
Click to expand...

sorry if this is a ridiculous thread revival, but that is just crazy. Imagine your PI cutting a lab meeting short because he has anatomy and immuno to cram for 😛
 
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