PhD before starting MD

[scienceguru]

HI,

I recently graduated summa cum laude with honors from college with a BS in biophysics and minor in biochemistry. I have a long list of extracurriculars ranging from playing Div III tennis, wind ensemble, teaching, publishing a book, and sailing.

I have also done very well academically. I've received several awards such as CRC Pres Chemistry Award, NSBP Harry Morrison PHysics Scholarship, Most Outstanding Senior physics student, and Most Outstanding University Graduate. I also graduated with a 3.94 overall GPA and a 3.91 Science GPA.

I participated in 3 research projects during my undergrad. One of which I co-authored a published paper. Another was for my Honors Thesis. The last was for the fun of it.

I also did a lot of physician shadowing and volunteered in the clinic at the Cedars Sinai hospital in Los Angeles in the Neurological Institute.

I'm not going to put my entire resume on here, but I just wanted to provide some perspective on my background.

During the summer after my junior year I applied to 21 medical schools, and was denied admission to all of them. I had a feeling this would happen because of my MCAT scores.

1st Attempt: VR6 PS7 BS6 Total 19P
2nd Attempt: VR2 PS9 BS9 Total 20P
3rd Attempt: VR5 PS9 BS6 Total 20O

I think I've tried everything with prepping for the MCAT. The first 2 times I studied by myself using Kaplan, and the 3rd time I hired a reading expert who told me I did not suffer from any kind of reading comprehension problems or learning disability. This past summer I studied again doing the Kaplan Summer Intensive Program. On my practice tests I was scoring on average in VR10, PS12 to 14, and BS 11 to 12. I just received my 4th set of scores again and they were humiliating.

4th Attempt: VR4 PS11 BS8 Total 23Q

Right now, I just started a post-bacc fellowship at the National Institutes of Health Heart Lung and Blood Institute in the department of molecular biophysics.

I had high hopes about applying to Harvard, Hopkins, Duke, and other schools of the like for matriculation in the Fall of 2011. Unfortunately, with my MCAT track record I know I'm not competitive. So I've decided to only apply to 4 schools (Drexel, Meharry, Howard, and Morehouse).

I'm strongly considering applying for the OxCam PhD partnership program as well as 5 other graduate level programs. Then re-apply in 4 to 5 years.

I know this is the round about way to becoming a doctor, but I'm running out of options here. I could apply for a masters, but I think I could do more with the PhD. Also, I could extend my fellowship for another year and reapply, but I really would prefer to be in school.

Do any of you have any suggestions about what I've discussed? I apologize for the length, but this issue has been heavy on my heart for the past year and half. Please let me know. Are there any PhDs who went to MD after their PhD? How was the transition between research and classes? It seems like having the PhD knowledge base would make the first two years of med school a little easier.

My ultimate goal is to become a doctor, but I think I've exhausted all my options because all of the admissions peopel I've talked too told me the only thing lacking on my resume for med school is a good MCAT score. I've tried my absolute best to get in, so once again if you have any feed back please send it my way.

Thanks so much. -RW

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

I know this is the round about way to becoming a doctor, but I'm running out of options here. I could apply for a masters, but I think I could do more with the PhD. Also, I could extend my fellowship for another year and reapply, but I really would prefer to be in school.

...

My ultimate goal is to become a doctor, but I think I've exhausted all my options because all of the admissions peopel I've talked too told me the only thing lacking on my resume for med school is a good MCAT score.

My humble opinion...

A PhD isn't just a "round about" way to become a doctor, it's a waste of time. From what you've told us your biggest issue is your MCAT scores. A PhD won't solve them!

Not that many schools are really all that impressed by a prior graduate degree. It shows certain talents, but if they wanted a graduate degree that bad they'd ask for it. And to some schools, it makes it look like you don't know what you want, or like you can't commit to a career. That's not going to help you get into medical school.

If your goal is to be a physician, your only option is to fix that MCAT!

 

[MiDoc2]

Since your practice tests were much higher than your real scores is it possible you are suffering from test anxiety? It might be worthwhile to see a psychiatrist for an evaluation/options.

 

[pseudoknot]

Speaking as a fourth year med student who did a PhD prior to med school, I can tell you that a PhD isn't going to make up for an unacceptable MCAT or GPA. It's basically viewed as an extracurricular activity, albeit a fairly substantial one. If you can't improve that MCAT score then you need to either think about the Caribbean, if that's an option, or alternative careers.

 

[iniquus]

Doesn't taking the MCAT that many times make you practically unacceptable to any US medical school?

I don't think you have a GPA problem to warrant post-bac, you have an MCAT problem.

Caribbean or DO should be considered seriously.

 

[QofQuimica]

A short answer to your question is that yes, there are several of us who are PhDs-to-MDs, including myself. However, as pseudo said, it's not the panacea you're looking for. Please see post #6 in the FAQs sticky at the top of this forum. It answers all of your questions and then some. For MCAT questions, go to the MCAT forum and read the stickies there.

 

[Cster0905]

HI,

I recently graduated summa cum laude with honors from college with a BS in biophysics and minor in biochemistry. I have a long list of extracurriculars ranging from playing Div III tennis, wind ensemble, teaching, publishing a book, and sailing.

I have also done very well academically. I've received several awards such as CRC Pres Chemistry Award, NSBP Harry Morrison PHysics Scholarship, Most Outstanding Senior physics student, and Most Outstanding University Graduate. I also graduated with a 3.94 overall GPA and a 3.91 Science GPA.

I participated in 3 research projects during my undergrad. One of which I co-authored a published paper. Another was for my Honors Thesis. The last was for the fun of it.

I also did a lot of physician shadowing and volunteered in the clinic at the Cedars Sinai hospital in Los Angeles in the Neurological Institute.

I'm not going to put my entire resume on here, but I just wanted to provide some perspective on my background.

During the summer after my junior year I applied to 21 medical schools, and was denied admission to all of them. I had a feeling this would happen because of my MCAT scores.

1st Attempt: VR6 PS7 BS6 Total 19P
2nd Attempt: VR2 PS9 BS9 Total 20P
3rd Attempt: VR5 PS9 BS6 Total 20O

I think I've tried everything with prepping for the MCAT. The first 2 times I studied by myself using Kaplan, and the 3rd time I hired a reading expert who told me I did not suffer from any kind of reading comprehension problems or learning disability. This past summer I studied again doing the Kaplan Summer Intensive Program. On my practice tests I was scoring on average in VR10, PS12 to 14, and BS 11 to 12. I just received my 4th set of scores again and they were humiliating.

4th Attempt: VR4 PS11 BS8 Total 23Q

Right now, I just started a post-bacc fellowship at the National Institutes of Health Heart Lung and Blood Institute in the department of molecular biophysics.

I had high hopes about applying to Harvard, Hopkins, Duke, and other schools of the like for matriculation in the Fall of 2011. Unfortunately, with my MCAT track record I know I'm not competitive. So I've decided to only apply to 4 schools (Drexel, Meharry, Howard, and Morehouse).

I'm strongly considering applying for the OxCam PhD partnership program as well as 5 other graduate level programs. Then re-apply in 4 to 5 years.

I know this is the round about way to becoming a doctor, but I'm running out of options here. I could apply for a masters, but I think I could do more with the PhD. Also, I could extend my fellowship for another year and reapply, but I really would prefer to be in school.

Do any of you have any suggestions about what I've discussed? I apologize for the length, but this issue has been heavy on my heart for the past year and half. Please let me know. Are there any PhDs who went to MD after their PhD? How was the transition between research and classes? It seems like having the PhD knowledge base would make the first two years of med school a little easier.

My ultimate goal is to become a doctor, but I think I've exhausted all my options because all of the admissions peopel I've talked too told me the only thing lacking on my resume for med school is a good MCAT score. I've tried my absolute best to get in, so once again if you have any feed back please send it my way.

Thanks so much. -RW

Despite what some people have posted in this thread, a PhD isn't going to hurt you. Med schools like well-rounded students who have various interests. I would make sure, however, that you do have a good explanation for why you pursued a PhD in field X before going on to medical school. A PhD is a long and potentially expensive investment of your time if the MD is your ultimate goal - so be sure 4-5 years of your time is worth it to you.

The reality is, doing well in a PhD program will be of limited use to you in terms of swaying adcoms. If you've done as well in the classroom as you suggest, doing well at the graduate level will seem like the natural progression of an ability you established in undergrad (being a good student).

You're fortunate you've had admission committee members explain your weaknesses to you. The best advice I can give is - do exactly what they say. If what they're saying your MCAT is weak, a PhD is irrelevant in terms of improving your chances for acceptance. Find a way to improve on the MCAT because your scores are not even in the borderline region (where one's GPA and ECs could conceivably make up for a weak MCAT score).

If the work you'd do in a PhD program truly interests you - go for it. But I would not approach that at all if the real reason you're pursuing it is to get into med school.I'd just focus now on your MCAT and then apply to a joint MD/PhD program if you really want the PhD. Of course there are PhDs that go on to get MDs but that's a TON of school and you should an the PhD, regardless of medicine.

 

[pseudoknot]

I think another important point here is that doing a PhD first and then an MD is just not a good idea. It's fine if it happens because your goals changed or something, but planning to do it that way is kind of like marrying someone you later plan to divorce.

 

[Silverfalcon]

PhD won't hurt you, but it won't really help you out too much.

I guess my main question is... how does someone with major in biophysics and minor in biochemistry with nearly perfect GPA get that MCAT after 3rd year? And not just one, but continuously...

 

[fishsticks2629]

I know most may disagree on this site, but look into the Carib schools.. You still become a Dr. in the end! I know a few docs at the ER that Im working at from those schools and they are making the exact same as those from top 20 US med schools. It might be ALOT harder to land a cushy residency (Ortho, plastics, ENT, etc) but if you dont want one of those, then what does it matter..


DO schools are also good for your situation, if you dont mind the status of your initials!

Good luck man!

 

[StIGMA]

I hope this ends up being constructive.... but why do YOU think the most outstanding senior physics student and the most outstanding university graduate / physics all-star & biochem minor (I suppose you understand chemistry concepts too) scores a 7 on the PS section?

1) Do you not know the material?
2) Do you find the passage-based questions challenging (versus directly answering questions and not inferring what they are asking)?
3) Do you not manage your time on the test and simply not answer enough questions, or rush in the last 10 minutes to answer 20 questions, etc?
4) Do you have any psychological issues with this exam / psychiatric diseases (keep them private if so)?
5) Are there other major areas of stress in your life preventing you from focusing/studying?
6) Why the practice test vs real test difference? How did you think you did leaving your last test? Why did it turn out worse than you thought (if you did poorly I assume you would not have graded the exam)?

Based on your story you are not a "20" MCAT taker. You should be scoring in the 35+ range, based on other academic people of your calibre. Try to gain some insight into exactly what is bogging you down. A significantly improved MCAT score will overshadow the earlier ones (although you will have questions about 'what did you do differently'). Avoid listening to pre-med's if they are disagreeing with the senior members of this board. The PhD will not help you unless you have a competitive MCAT score. If you want to be an MD, be an MD and dont waste 4-7 years of future earning power bogged down in grad school wishing everyday to be in med school. Try to get into a US school first, which will not be a problem once you diagnose your MCATs. Keep motivated and you will succeed. Best of luck!

 

[gbwillner]

I would add that not only is doing a PhD a terrible idea (for you), you'd probably never make it all the way through. A PhD is HARD WORK and if you don't love it you will fail.

Sorry to say, but it seems that you are boned, and you have a minimal chance at acceptance at this point. Your previous MCAT scores do not go away. Many programs will only let you repeat the test so many times. I agree with stigma's post entirely... but I think it's probably too late.

 

[Narmerguy]

Just going to note that there wasn't a single response to this post until three months after the OP has already posted it. Further, he has one total postcount and has not responded here since.

 

[wuhanese]

i think stigma's question needs to be answered first, it's as if the OP did not want to address this issue. answer's probably already there

 

[jissho]

Currently, I am a Ph.D. student in the process of preparing to apply to medical school.

You should ask yourself if you are truly passionate about research before committing to a Ph.D. program. You should not look at it as a round about way of getting into medical school.

While the Ph.D. should improve your critical thinking skills and basic science knowledge for the MCAT, the time investment may not be worth the return if your career will not involve research.

If it were me, I would go for the masters and work my butt off to improve my MCAT score.

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

Just going to note that there wasn't a single response to this post until three months after the OP has already posted it. Further, he has one total postcount and has not responded here since.

True, the OP has probably forgotten this post, but I still think it's a topic worth discussing!

PhD won't hurt you

Despite what some people have posted in this thread, a PhD isn't going to hurt you.

I've had an adcom member tell me otherwise! He said that schools with a mission to produce primary care physicians would frown upon a prior PhD.

I'm not saying that a PhD will hurt an application necessarily, but just that it can hurt some applications for some schools.