PhD During Residency

[dizjazz]

A few years back on SDN (2002) there were a few posts about people who were interested in obtaining their PhD during a residency program in some of the longer specialties (cardiology, etc.).

Does anyone have updates on programs or schools that do this, and how well does it work for the resident in terms of time for research in a surgery residency?

Thanks

 

[db1]

At UF surgery residents can spend 3 years in the lab, after their second year of residency, and get a Phd. Then go back and complete the last 3 years of their residency. Then most do a fellowship in their desired specialty for another 2 years. PGY 10!

 

[Neuronix]

How do you get a basic science PhD in 3 years? No really, we all want to know so we can graduate our MD/PhD programs

 

[db1]

You wait until residency...

This is the only place I have seen grant a PhD so quickly. They shorten the coursework, and don't do rotations. They are expected to start working on their thesis project from day 1. Plus after being worked so hard for 2 years in general surgery, they are used to long hours. So they end up with 3 pretty hardcore years in the lab. I think most Ph.D. students could finish in 4 years (1 year of classes and rotations, 3-3.5 years on their thesis) if they worked as hard as the residents I have seen. I graduated in 5 years (4 years of work on my thesis) from a top 10 Ph.D. program. I worked hard, but not as these guys do....

 

[dizjazz]

Pretty ideal setup you describe.

 

[RxnMan]

A few years back on SDN (2002) there were a few posts about people who were interested in obtaining their PhD during a residency program in some of the longer specialties (cardiology, etc.).

Does anyone have updates on programs or schools that do this, and how well does it work for the resident in terms of time for research in a surgery residency?

Thanks

Check out the APSA website, or look for the ABIM Research Pathway (there's similar deals in Path and Peds). General plan is 2 yrs clinic + 3yrs research + X yrs fellowship, where X depends on the fellowship. A/I a year, CC is 2, cards 3, so on. Caveat: If you don't have a PhD yet, you are expected to have a lot of research experience prior to applying to one of these programs.

There are many ortho and g-surgery programs that have a research year incorporated into their curriculum. N-surg usually have 2 years. I would expect that these programs (most are university-based) would be open to more years, and letting you get a PhD, if that's how your interests ran.

How do you get a basic science PhD in 3 years? No really, we all want to know so we can graduate our MD/PhD programs

I knew this one guy who graduated from his MD/PhD in 6 years. He happened on a very productive lab and worked hard.

For most mortals, it probably would mean having a MS prior to starting the MD/PhD.

 

[Neuronix]

For most mortals, it probably would mean having a MS prior to starting the MD/PhD.

Funny thing is the most of the people I've seen in these clinical PhD programs don't have much research experience. If they do it was like 7+ years ago (med school + part of residency). Yet they still get a PhD in 3 years... hmm....

 

[RxnMan]

Funny thing is the most of the people I've seen in these clinical PhD programs don't have much research experience. If they do it was like 7+ years ago (med school + part of residency). Yet they still get a PhD in 3 years... hmm....

Don't know what to tell you. ABIM and the research residency websites all say that applicants should have either a PhD or significant research experience.

If I saw what you did I wouldn't know what think either.

 

[QofQuimica]

Funny thing is the most of the people I've seen in these clinical PhD programs don't have much research experience. If they do it was like 7+ years ago (med school + part of residency). Yet they still get a PhD in 3 years... hmm....

Well, they get out of doing most of the scut work of grad school, you know? No TAing, minimal coursework, no rotations, no quals (I assume). Those are some major time sinks. If you only had to go work 80 hours per week in the lab for three years, I think it's entirely reasonable to pump out three papers that quickly, assuming you didn't have totally crappy luck. (Even that could be avoided by working on a few projects at a time so that you still have something to show for yourself when some don't work out.) What's interesting to me is that these PhD programs are more like post docs than like grad school. Plus they get paid as residents/fellows, not as grad students. What could be cushier!