phd first in an md/phd program

[zippyziggy]

Does anyone know if this is possible? Say I have specific reasons for working with a particular faculty member at the school I was accepted at for MD/PhD, and this faculty member was going to retire in a few years. Would it be possible to finish the PhD first, then do the MD? In some ways I see this as more beneficial - continuity in research (for me) after having done research as a postgrad, and the ability to wrap up those inevitable loose ends (those small but publishable data sets) as a medical student. It also seems like keeping up with your PhD field while a med student is easier than keeping your clinical skills sharp as a PhD student. The thing that would be lacking is the more translational focus that the MD might bring to your research, but since most programs are still 2 years preclinical anyway, I don't know how much that matters. Do any schools offer this type of flexibility? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!

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[Fencer]

The question for you is not if any school offers this type of flexibility, but rather, does the school where you were accepted offers that flexibility? In my program, I allowed 2 students (out of 35) to do that for very specific and particular reasons to each of them. However, I had to justify my decision to several committees including the SOM AC and our external MSTP advisory committee.

 

[Solara]

So to clarify, you want to do this at one particular school because of a specific mentor you want to work with who will be retiring soon, and also because of being able to carry your research training with you through all of med school straight.

I don't know if any schools offer this, but sounds like you really want to do it at one particular school. I think the first step is to talk with the MD/PhD director at this specific school. And, if you think he might be reluctant, see if the mentor you want to work with can write to the PhD director himself (or send a brief email) saying he will be retiring soon and couldn't mentor you if you start the PhD after second year of med school, but could mentor you if you start now.

I don't know if them allowing you do the PhD first compromises their ability to fund you (if it's something like NIH MSTP), depending on how they're funding you.

Like I said, if you do have to talk to the MD/PhD director at your school, you might have more legitimacy if you have your mentor having some communication in there as well. I'd carefully think of saying you want to do the PhD first because of being able to have research skills throughout all of med school or something along those lines. It might seem more legitimate to do this because of one specific mentor you want to work with.

 

[zippyziggy]

Thank you for all the quick responses.

For clarification: this is all hypothetical so far - I was just wondering if it was possible to do, if it had been done before at any school. I started thinking about this because there's a specific mentor I'd like to work with (and would be easy to develop connections with, due to my particular circumstances) at OxCam, via the NIH Oxford-Cambridge Scholars Program. But he'll probably retire within the next 5 years. So I wondered if I could finish the PhD first in order to work with him, but didn't know how it affected funding. At any case, it would seem to be fairly complicated, especially if three institutions would have to be involved.

Anyway, that got me thinking about certain potential research advisers at other schools - whether they'll be retiring soon, and what I should do to get the chance to work with them. Obviously I won't put all my eggs into one basket, and one person retiring won't greatly affect my decision to go to that school. But it's good to know that if I have a compelling reasons, there are at least some program directors who'll work with me to optimize my training.

 

[Microglia]

Thank you for all the quick responses.

For clarification: this is all hypothetical so far - I was just wondering if it was possible to do, if it had been done before at any school. I started thinking about this because there's a specific mentor I'd like to work with (and would be easy to develop connections with, due to my particular circumstances) at OxCam, via the NIH Oxford-Cambridge Scholars Program. But he'll probably retire within the next 5 years. So I wondered if I could finish the PhD first in order to work with him, but didn't know how it affected funding. At any case, it would seem to be fairly complicated, especially if three institutions would have to be involved.

Anyway, that got me thinking about certain potential research advisers at other schools - whether they'll be retiring soon, and what I should do to get the chance to work with them. Obviously I won't put all my eggs into one basket, and one person retiring won't greatly affect my decision to go to that school. But it's good to know that if I have a compelling reasons, there are at least some program directors who'll work with me to optimize my training.

My recommendation is to work with a faculty that isn't going to retire soon. Once faculty are significantly famous and close to retirement, their work slows down (they mostly travel and give talks) and your PhD will suffer for it. You're better with an up and coming yet well regarded associate professor than a famous full professor about to retire. Just my two cents.

 

[zippyziggy]

yeah that's a good tip. thanks!

 

[bd4727]

My recommendation is to work with a faculty that isn't going to retire soon. Once faculty are significantly famous and close to retirement, their work slows down (they mostly travel and give talks) and your PhD will suffer for it. You're better with an up and coming yet well regarded associate professor than a famous full professor about to retire. Just my two cents.

This is generally solid advice, but I would encourage to treat evaluate each situation independently.

I had almost the exact opposite experience with a mentor who is about to retire as I am finishing my PhD. It has been a great experience for me and one of the main reasons is precisely because he is established and doesn't care about the run-around of academia anymore. Therefore, he let me do whatever I wanted, was around to be involved with my work, because he had no pressure for me to produce anything that he specifically needed for his own career advancement. Furthermore, he was established so could secure research money, favors within our institution, knew plenty of potential manuscript reviewers personally, had collaborators everywhere, his name went a long way, etc.

All I am saying is that there are definitely advantages to a mentor who no longer 'needs' you to be productive for their career to be successful, so consider the flip side because in a good situation it can be a pretty great experience...