Phd or MD/Phd

[caduceus27]

Hello SDN
Its been a while since I posted something on this site, but its always nice to know that there is some place where you can ask questions and sometimes get good opinions and guidance. To start off I was graduated with a bachelors in biology with C's and B's and some A's in undergradute science courses. I graduated with a cumlative 3.2.( Im guess the science GPA would be much lower) I got some research experience in undergrad but not enough. I also had a situation in my life that prevented me to continue to pursue medical school. So I went on to receive a MSc. in Occupational therapy with a graduate GPA of a 3.7. I developed a passion for neuroscience and knew that I wanted to do research in the neurosciences, but also bridge the gap between the clinical and basic science which is translational research,since I see many patients with neurological disease. I am currently working as an Occupational therapist at Mayo Clinic. I am also participating in spinal cord injury research after work and during the weekends. I am currently working on applying to Phd programs, Mayo has a clincal and translational science program which I am very interested in, but with talking with many attending physicians and Phds people tell me I should go for a career in medicine. Now I know the difference between having a Phd and an MD, one is more research oriented and the other is obviously clinical, but I dont want to go to straight MD for financial reasons and I dont want to be in debt for the rest of my life. So I think an MD/Phd is a better option instead of a straight MD.So here are my questions.
1. I am planning to take graduate courses at the graduate school, and I feel it would be a waste of time if I go and do undergraduate premed courses because I took them I already,do I need to go back and retake some undergrduate courses that I did poorly if I were to apply to MD/Phd programs.
2. Can I apply to MD/Phd program while in a PhD program?
3. If I complete my Phd would I need to take undergraduate courses to apply to MD programs?
4. Honestly, given my situation, would I be a good candidate for an MD/Phd Programs.

Thank you in advance for your input and I appreciate any feedback

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[QofQuimica]

You can check the Physician Scientists forum for more input from other MD/PhD students and residents, but realistically, no, you are not going to be competitive for MD/PhD programs with that GPA. In particular, MSTPs (of which Mayo is one) tend to select candidates with very high GPAs and MCAT scores. We're talking in the range of 3.8+ and 35+. You may be able to garner some interviews and/or acceptances to non-MSTP MD/PhD programs, which may or may not meet your financial goals, as not all non-MSTP programs pay for med school.

Concerning courses, you need to complete all premed prereqs just like everyone else. So if you haven't taken a year each of physics, biology, chemistry, and organic chem with their associated labs, you will need to take whatever you're missing. It doesn't matter if you have five graduate degrees. Everyone needs to take the prereqs. If you've already taken and passed all of those classes, then no, it's not necessary to take them again, although it would be a good idea to take some upper level science classes if you're going to apply to med school.

Realistically, no, you likely cannot get into an MD/PhD program from a PhD program. It's not impossible, but it's so uncommon that you should not count on being able to do it. There are some MSTPs that take internal MD candidates, so entering an MD/PhD program from an MD program may be possible. Not sure if Mayo does this; you'd have to ask them.

As for what to do, well, getting an MD/PhD for financial reasons is a horrible idea. You're talking about wasting years of your life on an "investment" that you'll never use. I don't have a very good sense of whether you want to be a clinician at all, but if you know that you don't, then forget the MD. On the other hand, if you want to mostly be a clinician and/or do clinical research, you don't need a PhD. The PhD part of MD/PhD programs is meant for people who want to do basic science research. I'm guessing that you are doing clinical research, and if so, an MD/MS in clinical research might be more appropriate for you. The PhD program you're interested in sounds like a good bet as well.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Agree with Q for the most part, she knows her stuff.

Mayo's CTSA program is awesome though and I can see why you'd be interested. An md/phd program is pretty competitive and your stats are well below the averages of people selected. While initially it sounds good to have your schooling funded, the long term cost benefit analysis generally shows that when you consider the extra years you actually come out behind since you've delayed becoming an attending or pi by a good 4 years. So if you aren't going to use that degree to the fullest, it's not going to be worth it. If you're a Nontrad you have that added issue as well. There are a lot of people that sign up for that road, that have put a lot of thought into the decision, that change their minds once they are in.

Take me for example from the nontrad viewpoint, I just turned 30 and absolutely want to do an md/phd though with a clinical translational or epidemiology focus. My stats are on the low side if you don't factor in my postbacc., though I do have quite a bit of research experience. That aside, if you figure 8 years ( and it can take more) for the joint degree, and if I matriculated at 32 after finishing my mph, that puts me at 40 starting residency. The specialty I'm interested in the most right now is ID, so 3 years IM and 3 years fellowship and now I'm almost 47 finishing up training and trying to get my research off the ground and that doesn't give me a lot of years practicing and doing research even if I don't have plans to retire at 65.

Since you're an employee and you talk about taking graduate courses, I'm assuming you know that you can take up to 6 graduate credits at Mayo without formally being accepted to a degree program. I'd suggest you meet with the CTSA program director, I think it's Dr. Windebank, and have an honest chat about what your future career goals are and what would make you a competitive applicant for the phd program there, ie he might suggest which six credits you should take and demonstrate solid performance in if you plan on applying there and elsewhere. If you want to see patients then md/ms is probably a good option.

***i believe Mayo does take internal applicants from the md program into the phd program, in fact I think one of the ctsa programs first phd students was originally doing an md/ms

 

[neurodoc]

MD/PhD option: very competitive; candidates generally have strong basic science backgrounds.

PhD option: OK but you really should be committed to completing the program and willing to accept that maybe you won't get into med school. PhD programs don't like to lose their students mid-stream and med schools may be wary about applicants who apply before getting their PhD's.

MD option: IMHO the best course for someone in your shoes (assuming that becoming an MD is what you really want. Complete the pre-reqs Post-Bac and get great grades (3.7+ in the BCPM reqs) and 35+ in the MCAT, and that will make you competitive. Once you get the MD and you still have your heart set on a PhD, you'll find it relatively easy to get into a PhD program.