PhD student "non-trad" to MD

[purpletheory]

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Happy new year SDN!

I would love some advice as I am taking a non-traditional route.

I was a pre-med student at a T20 undergraduate institution, and did all my premed requirements (GPA 3.92, expired MCAT 523 but need to retake now). Long story short, due to financial reasons, my international F-1 status, and strong interest in research, I eventually enrolled in a T5 life science PhD program and thought I'd be happy too with a pure research career. But during my PhD, after again much struggle, I decided I just can't see my life without medicine, so I am planning to finish in 2028 (applying in 2027) and am planning to go for the MD program (will still likely be an F-1 unfortunately, the EB1A takes a long time for citizens of my country).

Here are some of my questions:

1. It's been 5+ years since I graduated from college, does any of that extracurricular stuff that I did in college (clinical volunteering, shadowing, student club leadership etc.) even matter still? Do I need to go volunteer in the hospital because my "clinical experience" was many years ago?

2. Anyone knows what kind of stats would give you a shot at NYU? Is it non-traditional friendly and/or international friendly? Does it like research-oriented applicants? The shorter program plus free tuition is hard to ignore, but the average GPA on their website says 3.98 which is significantly higher than my GPA.

3. How do med schools evaluate non-trad applicants? Is it any different from the traditional applicants? If anyone has taken this similar path, please share your experience too!!

much appreciated!!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Read

F1 Doctors: Supporting International Future Healthcare Professionals | Student Doctor Network | SDN

Since the Student Doctor Network was founded 25 years ago, the forums have supported international-status students navigating the U.S. medical school

www.studentdoctor.net

Mind the Gap: How First-Generation and International Students Navigate Prehealth Pathways | Student Doctor Network | SDN

The path to health professions is challenging for all students, but for immigrants and first-generation (first-gen) prehealth students, it can feel like

www.studentdoctor.net

Reach out to schools. You probably won't need to retake your prerequisites if your PhD is also in a biomedical science field, but be able to explain why you want to jump to medicine. It doesn't sound like you want to finish your Ph.D., so ask if getting the consolation masters is consequential. Why are you looking at the 3-year curriculums?

Learning is different in medical school vs. a Ph.D. program. It might be more challenging to make that transition to learning from electronic flashcards and group learning.

 

[purpletheory]

Read

F1 Doctors: Supporting International Future Healthcare Professionals | Student Doctor Network | SDN

Since the Student Doctor Network was founded 25 years ago, the forums have supported international-status students navigating the U.S. medical school

www.studentdoctor.net

Mind the Gap: How First-Generation and International Students Navigate Prehealth Pathways | Student Doctor Network | SDN

The path to health professions is challenging for all students, but for immigrants and first-generation (first-gen) prehealth students, it can feel like

www.studentdoctor.net

Reach out to schools. You probably won't need to retake your prerequisites if your PhD is also in a biomedical science field, but be able to explain why you want to jump to medicine. It doesn't sound like you want to finish your Ph.D., so ask if getting the consolation masters is consequential. Why are you looking at the 3-year curriculums?

Learning is different in medical school vs. a Ph.D. program. It might be more challenging to make that transition to learning from electronic flashcards and group learning.

Thank you so much for your advice! Actually I do want to finish my PhD program, since I am already deep into it and the research is going relatively well. I'm expected to graduate in 2028 so I am applying in 2027. The main reason for 3-year program preference is because I'm getting old and I intend to pursue surgery for residency. Pulling late night calls in the mid-30s is going to suck..

 

[mistafab]

Before you jump back to medicine, I would say really consider why you were willing to leave it behind in the first place. You thought you'd be happy with a research career. Have you really given that career a fair shot? You seem to like it enough that you want to finish the PHD. Why not give it a year or two in the actual work to see if you scratch the itch - doing clinical trial stuff or something.

I understand feeling time pressure to get back into medicine. But if you're considering surgical sub, you are staring down the barrel of another 8+ year track of your life in "training" pathways... Spending a year or two as a full blown post-doc in a real job to see if you can stomach it seems an appropriate time expense.

If I were in your shoes, I would absolutely not jump straight from endless years training (up to now) to even more training willy-nilly. You need to get off the training train and see if you're just being caught up by the clouds of fanciful daydreaming.

Just my opinion.

 

[A224B]

Counterpoint: spending a year in a postdoc or as a CRC is a lost year of salary as a surgeon.

The advantage the gap year gives you is that you get a year of recent ECs. I think adcoms are not going to be particularly impressed with no patient care experience or non-clinical volunteering in the past 5 years.

Basically, the Ph.D is a great leadership and research experience, but it doesn't make up for for the clinical and service hours your app needs to be successful.

 

[Med Ed]

How do you plan to pay for medical school?

 

[pazzer2]

As an international applicant, your choices of which schools might accept you will be limited. You're fortunate that your GPA and MCAT scores are high, as that will certainly help. But unless you have permanent residency, your application will not be accepted at most of the state medical schools. You'll largely be limited to the private medical schools.

Here is a list that summarizes the policies of each school

https://students-residents.aamc.org/system/files/2025-11/MSAR012%20-%20Applications%20Accepted%20Information.pdf

But I think you have an interesting story. You'll just need to explain more clearly why you want to switch to medicine. The answer you gave above was not very compelling, and it needs to be more than just "I got tired of working in the lab setting". They want to know that how you will use your PhD along with your MD together. Suggest that you spend some time articulating this clearly in your app.

 

[purpletheory]

How do you plan to pay for medical school?

I am planning to only apply to only those financial aids like NYU and Hopkins, and if no luck, i will work as a postdoc for 1-2 years til my EB1A is approved and try again more broadly so i can take loans. I think I might even get my EB1A in time for 2027 but I will never know this kind of stuff keeps changing.

 

[purpletheory]

As an international applicant, your choices of which schools might accept you will be limited. You're fortunate that your GPA and MCAT scores are high, as that will certainly help. But unless you have permanent residency, your application will not be accepted at most of the state medical schools. You'll largely be limited to the private medical schools.

Here is a list that summarizes the policies of each school

https://students-residents.aamc.org/system/files/2025-11/MSAR012%20-%20Applications%20Accepted%20Information.pdf

But I think you have an interesting story. You'll just need to explain more clearly why you want to switch to medicine. The answer you gave above was not very compelling, and it needs to be more than just "I got tired of working in the lab setting". They want to know that how you will use your PhD along with your MD together. Suggest that you spend some time articulating this clearly in your app.

Thank you for the advice, yeah I am not being specific about my desire to do MD here because it is personal and i don't want to bother people with a whole essay here 😉 I will be sure to articulating that much more clearly in the app!

 

[purpletheory]

Counterpoint: spending a year in a postdoc or as a CRC is a lost year of salary as a surgeon.

The advantage the gap year gives you is that you get a year of recent ECs. I think adcoms are not going to be particularly impressed with no patient care experience or non-clinical volunteering in the past 5 years.

Basically, the Ph.D is a great leadership and research experience, but it doesn't make up for for the clinical and service hours your app needs to be successful.

I see, so i would need to 'refresh' my clinical and service hours.. i do have plenty from undergrads, just not recently since i have been working like crazy during this PhD.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I am planning to only apply to only those financial aids like NYU and Hopkins, and if no luck, i will work as a postdoc for 1-2 years til my EB1A is approved and try again more broadly so i can take loans. I think I might even get my EB1A in time for 2027 but I will never know this kind of stuff keeps changing.

Obviously there's no way to tell when you would get your green card with this administration. Worse, your lab could lose funding immediately, and then you would be screwed. Hopefully you do not come from a country where you could be targeted for random deportation.

International PhD students make emergency plans in fear of US immigration raids

Arrests of scholars by US President Donald Trump’s administration prompts lawsuit alleging that the government has violated the right to free speech.

www.nature.com

Have you talked with your PI about your plans to go to medical school? You should have this conversation and incorporate it into your IDP so you can actively schedule additional hours in both clinical and community service settings.

 

[Med Ed]

I am planning to only apply to only those financial aids like NYU and Hopkins, and if no luck, i will work as a postdoc for 1-2 years til my EB1A is approved and try again more broadly so i can take loans. I think I might even get my EB1A in time for 2027 but I will never know this kind of stuff keeps changing.

I was not aware that an EB-1 made one eligible for loans. Federal ones, at least. Perhaps private lenders would be feasible at that point. Schools that take international students often require very large payments up front (up to four years of tuition). Fees and living expenses are yet another matter.

I’m sure you are aware that getting accepted prior to obtaining a Green Card is extremely difficult. And that NYU and Hopkins are two of the most competitive schools in the country. I’m not trying to discourage you, but realistically this is quite a long shot.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Since this also came up in another post, reach out to the admissions team, especially at NYU Grossman re: Three-Year Directed Pathway.

• Those who have earned a PhD from another college or university can apply to the three-year MD directed pathway for specialized, research-focused residency programs.

Three-Year MD Directed Pathway | NYU Langone Health

NYU Grossman School of Medicine’s three-year MD directed pathway offers students early entry into a variety of specialties, as well as financial savings.

med.nyu.edu

 

[purpletheory]

I was not aware that an EB-1 made one eligible for loans. Federal ones, at least. Perhaps private lenders would be feasible at that point. Schools that take international students often require very large payments up front (up to four years of tuition). Fees and living expenses are yet another matter.

I’m sure you are aware that getting accepted prior to obtaining a Green Card is extremely difficult. And that NYU and Hopkins are two of the most competitive schools in the country. I’m not trying to discourage you, but realistically this is quite a long shot.

EB1 are green cards so I am pretty sure I would be able to get federal loans at that point!

 

[A224B]

I don't think it's really all that unlikely that a Ph.D with great stats can get accepted, I know an anesthesiologist from Canada who did the USMD path after their Ph.D.

One important question is how you are going to get patient care experience: you may appear overqualified for some typical jobs like MA or scribe and I'm not an expert on navigating those visa issues.

 

[purpletheory]

Obviously there's no way to tell when you would get your green card with this administration. Worse, your lab could lose funding immediately, and then you would be screwed. Hopefully you do not come from a country where you could be targeted for random deportation.

International PhD students make emergency plans in fear of US immigration raids

Arrests of scholars by US President Donald Trump’s administration prompts lawsuit alleging that the government has violated the right to free speech.

www.nature.com

Have you talked with your PI about your plans to go to medical school? You should have this conversation and incorporate it into your IDP so you can actively schedule additional hours in both clinical and community service settings.

yes luckily my lab is really well-funded by private sectors and is huge so i have a lot of flexibilities to do my own stuff as long as I get my research done. From what everyone is saying here, it seems like the patient care experience/volunteer experience I did from college will all not count right, i will need to start from scratch and get recent EC experience?

 

[purpletheory]

I don't think it's really all that unlikely that a Ph.D with great stats can get accepted, I know an anesthesiologist from Canada who did the USMD path after their Ph.D.

One important question is how you are going to get patient care experience: you may appear overqualified for some typical jobs like MA or scribe and I'm not an expert on navigating those visa issues.

Hmm so the volunteer experience from college i guess is too old to count? I am looking into community health worker training my city government provides, so maybe I can do that on the side.. I wanted to see here if it is really needed to update those clinical experience with recent ones, was lowkey hoping those from college would still count, but i guess not haha..

 

[Mr.Smile12]

yes luckily my lab is really well-funded by private sectors and is huge so i have a lot of flexibilities to do my own stuff as long as I get my research done. From what everyone is saying here, it seems like the patient care experience/volunteer experience I did from college will all not count right, i will need to start from scratch and get recent EC experience?

I need to know you have made the pivot through your activities.

 

[purpletheory]

I need to know you have made the pivot through your activities.

I see. I guess I don't see myself as pivoting, i wanted to pursue MD-PhD from day 1 of college but was too intimidated at the end by my F1 status and financial situation that I tried to convince myself that I'd be happy with just research, which now i decide is not sufficient for me so here I am applying again..

I am going to volunteer as a community health worker for a year and do some shadowing to refresh those activities, but it will be hard to completely start from scratch on the ECs given PhD (I am seeing 4-digit community service hours from people on the forum, wow!) - can I still mention my activities from college to supplement my ECs? sorry for all the questions, really appreciate you taking the time to read this. i will also reach out to adcomm but thought i'd get as many opinions as possible.

 

[PickaGodnPray]

I see. I guess I don't see myself as pivoting, i wanted to pursue MD-PhD from day 1 of college but was too intimidated at the end by my F1 status and financial situation that I tried to convince myself that I'd be happy with just research, which now i decide is not sufficient for me so here I am applying again..

Was there a reason or an event that made you decide you wanted to go back to patient care? I think you could word this well in your essays as there being a moment where you felt disconnected from the patient population you wanted serve with being confined to research alone, leading you back to exploring clinical spaces as a volunteer/side-hustle while you finished your PhD. Then talking about how that has led you realize your goal of pursuing an MD.
As other people have said, you will need to show that you had more of a reason to pivot rather than just "research isn't what I thought it would be" or "I thought I would be happy with just research". If you don't strengthen your narrative adcoms may ask "What if medicine isn't what they thought it would be either?". To ensure they don't ask, you will need some newer experiences so they don't think you just came to the conclusion one day out of the blue. I don't think you need to fully replace all your clinical experiences and can still list old ones you had, but shoot for some new ones that are higher impact (not just typical volunteering where you stock rooms for 3 hours and call it a day), where you can get some experiences that you can tell a story about. Feed it into your overall narrative and say something about how this sparked the same curiosity and passion from when you were in undergrad originally pursuing medicine and adcoms will have no issues with your switch.

 

[A224B]

One of the reasons why EMT is such a great EC for med school apps is that it combines performing basic medical procedures with decisionmaking. I'm not sure if you can be an EMT with your visa status, but make sure your community health worker position has similar elements and is not centered around stuff like Epic software or Microsoft Excel.

 

[Med Ed]

EB1 are green cards so I am pretty sure I would be able to get federal loans at that point!

I’m not an immigration expert, but to my knowledge an EB-1 visa is still a visa. Approval for an EB visa allows one to apply for a Green Card via form I-485. But they are not synonymous.

Correct me if I am mistaken.