PhD Students applying to med school

[smokeycat]

I don't know if this thread goes here...

If you're in a PhD program and apply to med school, do you have to complete the program before being accepted (or matriculating)...or can you drop out of the program?

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[Khenon]

Most schools want you to finish your PhD program. I think it's more of a courtesy thing than anything. Med schools don't want to get the reputation of "taking" graduate students in the middle of their programs. I believe most schools will even require you to use your thesis/dissertation advisor to send a letter confirming that not only do they know you're applying, but feel that you will be able to finish by the time you matriculate. If you want to quit your PhD program, then I would suggest dropping to a masters and applying upon completion of that. If you want to drop out completely, then you have to do that WELL before you apply. If not med schools are going to question your decision (well, they'll probably question it anyway, but you'd be better off completely dissociated with your program).

 

[smokeycat]

That's what I thought...but I heard stories of people in PhD programs applying to med school and then dropping out to attend. It sounded kinda fishy....

 

[njbmd]

Hi there,
You can opt out at the Masters level, that is after you have completed your comprehensive exams and if you have enough for a thesis but most medical schools will not take a graduate student who has not completed the current degree program.
njbmd

 

[ntmed]

You can opt out at the Masters level ...

You can also work on both degrees concurrently. For example, a classmate of mine completed her PhD research while in medical school.

 

[mshheaddoc]

I know two people who left their PhD programs for med school after the masters level.

 

[tigress]

I don't know if this thread goes here...

If you're in a PhD program and apply to med school, do you have to complete the program before being accepted (or matriculating)...or can you drop out of the program?

I'm basically in the same boat, although considering MD/PhD. Anyway, what I've learned is that you can totally drop out of the PhD program if you don't like it and apply to med school. What you can't do is apply to med school while still in the program and then drop it once you get in, because you'll have to get your PhD first. I have been in touch with a few people who left grad school after a year or so and went to med school. Like others said, another option if your school allows is to go for a masters. Of course your advisors will be pretty pissed with most of these options!

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

I dropped out of not one but two Masters programs after the first year. I was miserable and misdirected (they were Latin American Studies and US History programs). I'm not looking forward to explaining it to med schools but I've got so much else to explain along with it, I've just decided to call myself "interesting". Grad schools (well, social sciences anyway) have incredibly high drop out rates, especially people leaving after the masters. It's something like 60% or higher.

 

[sanford_w/o_son]

i'll be applying for the md this summer, and anxiously hope that i will be able to finish the phd before matriculation (and, more importantly, that this potential will be reflected in my application). Otherwise, my md options are limited for the reasons given above.

for someone dropping out, it makes sense that you would have to show adcoms your LACK of commitment to the phd by dropping out before applying to the md, so they know that you will take acceptance offers seriously (rather than staying in grad school another year if you didn't get the med school of your choice--who wants to take the time to interview that risky person?). if you have a good relationship with your advisor, and you've convinced them the phd really isn't for you (and the md is, in the best case scenario), they will probably be more likely to accept you dropping out and write a decent recommendation for you.

you should probably also spend plenty of time volunteering/shadowing, to show that your lack of commitment to the phd will not predict a lack of commitment to the md.


another question: what if, when you apply to med school, you (and your advisor) can reasonable state that you will be abd (all-but-dissertation) upon matriculating? is this enough for those med schools that don't like dual enrollment? otherwise, is abd with a rough draft or undefended dissertation enough? any thoughts or experiences out there?

 

[QofQuimica]

another question: what if, when you apply to med school, you (and your advisor) can reasonable state that you will be abd (all-but-dissertation) upon matriculating? is this enough for those med schools that don't like dual enrollment? otherwise, is abd with a rough draft or undefended dissertation enough? any thoughts or experiences out there?

I was in this position and elected to wait another year to apply. I am planning to graduate in Dec. 2005. My prof was actually ok with me applying for this year and coming back in Dec. to defend, but I didn't feel comfortable doing that and I didn't want the added pressure of having to write my dissertation and prepare my defense, all while completing my first semester of med school!

The way I look at it, I'm already 10 years older than the other kids, and waiting one more year isn't going to make much difference in terms of making it through med school, but it sure will make a difference as to the amount of stress that I feel!!! On one hand, I feel a bit "left out", as I already took the MCAT this past August and now I have to sit and wait until June when I can submit my AMCAS for fall 2006. But on the other hand, the extra time has really helped me in terms of giving me time to think about exactly what I want to do and also to strengthen my application as much as possible. I've spent a lot of time looking into schools, for example, many of which I probably wouldn't have considered had I been in a rush to apply in October when I got my scores. I feel that I will be much better prepared when I finally do apply.

 

[Khenon]

I was in this position and elected to wait another year to apply. I am planning to graduate in Dec. 2005. My prof was actually ok with me applying for this year and coming back in Dec. to defend, but I didn't feel comfortable doing that and I didn't want the added pressure of having to write my dissertation and prepare my defense, all while completing my first semester of med school!

I agree that you should wait. I only have a master's degree, but writing and preparing your defense is a full time job. Many people actually stop all their research and just write for 3-6 months prior to defending. It's not something you want to be doing while trying to pass your first semester of med school. Frankly, I don't honestly see how it can be done . . . unless you don't require any sleep, then maybe!

 

[QofQuimica]

I agree that you should wait. I only have a master's degree, but writing and preparing your defense is a full time job. Many people actually stop all their research and just write for 3-6 months prior to defending. It's not something you want to be doing while trying to pass your first semester of med school. Frankly, I don't honestly see how it can be done . . . unless you don't require any sleep, then maybe!

Yeah, I have my MS too and I ended up waiting for a semester then also; I defended in September so I missed the summer graduation. (I seem to have an uncanny ability to always graduate in December!) Luckily, I was able to start my PhD program in January so it wasn't too long of a wait, but this time I'll have to wait all the way until the following summer because med schools won't let me start in the spring term. Hopefully I can find some kind of job for the interim.

 

[sanford_w/o_son]

Many people actually stop all their research and just write for 3-6 months prior to defending.

I'm actually getting a social science PhD, and wonder if the requirements may be different than those referred to above. For us, I'm pretty sure that defense of the dissertation, once written, is an oral process in front of your committee. I don't think it requires any additional writing. So for me, I don't think it would take too much additional time from med school to finish a defendable version (maybe second/third draft) of the dissertation before med school, take off one day during the first year of med. school to defend it orally, and then do a final revision during a break (ideally, winter break). Is it different for a science PhD? Must you write something for the defense in addition to the dissertation itself?

 

[QofQuimica]

I'm actually getting a social science PhD, and wonder if the requirements may be different than those referred to above. For us, I'm pretty sure that defense of the dissertation, once written, is an oral process in front of your committee. I don't think it requires any additional writing. So for me, I don't think it would take too much additional time from med school to finish a defendable version (maybe second/third draft) of the dissertation before med school, take off one day during the first year of med. school to defend it orally, and then do a final revision during a break (ideally, winter break). Is it different for a science PhD? Must you write something for the defense in addition to the dissertation itself?

I think that the general requirement is that you have to give a department seminar, open to the public, and then you have your oral exam with the committee. (That is what I have to do, at any rate!) So you're right; the defense part won't require more than making a powerpoint presentation, assuming that the thesis is already written, edited, and formatted. (We have draconian formatting rules; deciphering them could be a dissertation all on its own!) But I am planning to spend fall semester next year writing, because I think I'll still be working in the lab full-time during summer. That was why I started freaking out at the thought of starting med school at the same time as I was trying to write up....realistically, it just wasn't going to happen and I knew it!

 

[sanford_w/o_son]

Ah, I see. I've been assured by a couple of doctors that the idea of writing a PhD during first-year med school would be hellish at best. One in fact didn't say anything at the idea; he just looked at me as if i had proposed getting a skin tan under a full moon. Good luck to all, whether finishing up or leaving with the m.a.