PhD then DVM?

[nuevaburra]

---

Members do not see this ad.

So, my wonderful fiance has been accepted to a PhD program at Cornell and we are probably moving out to Ithaca this August. Amazing for him, but I am applying to veterinary school this fall, and I really don't want to do a LDR. On the other hand, it is pretty unlikely that I will be accepted to Cornell OOS on the first try, so starting DVM right away might mean moving back to my IS, which would be 🙁

My ultimate interest is veterinary pathology, so there is a good chance I would at some point want to get a PhD. My question is, is there a disadvantage to getting a PhD before a DVM? Because I could probably get into a PhD program at or very near Cornell if I am not accepted to the DVM or dual degree next year. Then I could stay near the SO and still be furthering my career. But I don't want to do a PhD if, somehow, it won't be as valuable as one completed after a DVM. Thoughts?

 

[sumstorm]

most of the path specialists get their phd in conjunction with their residency, so i do think there would be a disadvantage or at best it would be neutral.

 

[JumpHigherLivie]

So I started my PhD in 2006 and started vet school in 2009 (class of 2013) and will be defending my thesis this spring (2011). I'm also interested in lab animal medicine or pathology

I don't think that it's a disadvantage, personally. My school doesn't have a dual degree program for DVM/PhDs so the biggest problem was having to fend my own path and convincing people that I could go "against the grain."

I think that generally speaking classes have been less overwhelming for me, as I was out of the UG mentality and already used to critical thinking and interacting with faculty professionally (I'm not saying anyone coming straight out of UG isn't, just a generalized comment). I was used to upper level coursework already and multi-tasking and working on a PhD does give you a certain level of critical thinking that goes beyond the multiple choice tests which, although most vet schools are multiple choice, I think it helps get a deeper bredth of info. I also took one vet school class for my PhD prior to vet school so it was nice that semester to have one less class.

I don't know how it will affect later residencies (since msot of them are residency-PhD oriented and as I understand it you have to be in a degree granting (i.e. PhD or MS) program to put off student loans). I wouldn't get a PhD just to get one (IMHO it's too much work and I've seen people who do this and they're miserable) or think that you'll jump ship part way through and quit it to go to vet school (good way to burn bridges).

Hope that helps ... if you have any specific questions feel free to ask, I'm happy to give my opinions and experiences. At the very least I don't think it puts you at a disadvantage ... and depending onw hat you want to do can help.

 

[GellaBella]

I did a PhD in Microbiol and Molecular Genetics and now I am in vet school (V'14). I defended my dissertation on July 28th and had actually moved to Philly for vet school the weekend before.

There is no disadvantage to getting a PhD...except that you actually have to do the work of getting the degree. 5-6 years is a long time to put off vet school just to be closer to your fiance. I think it would be more practical to just apply and work in the interm and keep applying if you don't get in. That way you could gain instate status in NY which would help you as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that I HAVE my PhD and I think that it helped me gain admittance to vet school but that is a huge committment for something that you don't necessarily need if you want to be a veterinary pathologist.

just my $0.02

 

[No Imagination]

/agree with what Gella and Jump said. I also have a PhD in biochem prior to entering vet school (I dont think it helped me out at all TBH - Vet school is more like an extreme course load of upper level UG courses, as opposed to grad. lvl work).

I am not sure being a NYS resident will help you with Cornell (maybe a bit, but I dont remember them being particularly amiable towards NY residents, I may be wrong).

Two other things you need to consider: Getting a PhD = 5-6 years realistically, and it is pretty much out of your hands. You could consider a MS?

Also, what about when he gets done with his PhD. Post-Doc jobs are pretty hard to get, even when he's done, he might not be able to land anything near you...

 

[nuevaburra]

Thanks for the advice, guys. As a little more background, I am finishing my MS in microbiology this summer. So a second masters is an option, but at that point I might as well have just got the darn PhD. I like the research part a lot, but ending up in academia as a career just sounds like 😴 to me. And yes I am woefully aware of the scarcity of post-doc jobs, especially in his field (paleontology, crikey) so there are definitely going to be some big compromises about locations in our future. Sigh. No getting around that one, I suppose... I just want to minimize our time apart if I can. And I have heard from pathologists that a PhD is very helpful/ necessary for some jobs.

 

[No Imagination]

Uhh, I know someone who is getting a PhD in paleontology (in upstate NY) - and for him anyway (I think it has something to do with the field, but its different then the physical sciences) - it typically takes 8 years to get a PhD in that kind of field. Might want to look into that a bit.

 

[nuevaburra]

8? That is a loooooong thesis. Fortunately my SO doesn't have to actually find fossils, he just wants to analyze them in new ways, so some of the hit-or-miss part of paleontology is taken away. I think if he isn't wrapping up by year 6 his advisor is going to have words with him!

I guess I can work and just keep applying to the three or four somewhat reasonably close schools. ONE of them should take me, eventually.

 

[sumstorm]

I think the concern I was expressing is that vet path is a speciality, so I'm not sure if getting your PhD early would impact residency stuff for the speciality.

might message Whtsthefrequency for info on vet path.

 

[nyanko]

Yeah, not to say anything against my awesome colleagues who've already posted here, but I had a choice this past year as to whether to enter a Ph.D. program with a fellowship or a DVM, and I chose the DVM. My inclination is that if you already know you want to go to vet school and are a competitive applicant, I would not do a Ph.D. first.

A lot of my reason has to do with a sort of principle of recency. It made sense to me (and I discussed it with others in academia and who had gotten both degrees or were enrolled in DVM) that if I were ultimately interested in research in a given field, it would be advantageous to be looking for jobs at the end of a Ph.D. where I would have been already working in that field for 4-5 years and so my knowledge would be up to date and my contacts current. Going into a DVM at the end of the Ph.D. and then looking for research related jobs at the end of DVM (esp in academia) would be more discontinuous IMO - vet school is like a black hole and even with my PI from my Masters two buildings away it is really tough for me to get over there enough.

Anyway, there's really nothing wrong with doing it the way NI and GellaBella and Livie have done it or anything - just giving another perspective from someone who thought about it a lot last year.