PhD to MD. Reapplicant. Feeling discouraged.

[anon2929]

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I am finishing the fourth year of my PhD in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. I applied to medical school for several reasons, including missing having the patient interactions, directly impacting patients' lives, generally loving the field of medicine, not wanting the instability of academic life (relying on grants for funding), feeling burnt out by the mindset of academia (only getting high impact publications if you have big PIs on your manuscripts, etc.), and so on. Looking back, I do not regret getting my PhD first as I would not have realized my desire to go into medicine without it. I love research, but I'm not sure I can see myself being as happy doing any of the careers associated with a PhD alone as I would being an MD/PhD.

A year ago, my plan was to finish my PhD a year early (average graduation rates are 5 years, not 4 at my institution) and enter medical school this summer 2019. I changed my plans after getting pregnant and decided that, should I get into medical school, I would try to defer for 1 year or take a leave of absence for the first semester in order to give myself more time to finish my PhD (as my previous timeline would not have allowed for me to defend by June 2019 due to the arrival of my baby in the coming weeks). However, I was not accepted into any programs and find myself considering whether or not I should reapply.

About my past application: I received 4 interview invitations but was not offered any positions. I have a good UG GPA (3.85) and did relatively well on my MCAT (513). My research is very translational (a clinical trial is starting this spring based on my research) and we are currently developing a manuscript we hope to publish in a high impact journal. I have presented at several conferences and have many abstract and poster awards. I have some shadowing experience in the medical field that I am interested in, although not a ton. I volunteer twice a month at the local hospital with my dog as a therapy dog team. I have made very few modifications to my application, with the exception of receiving NIH funding, new awards, new presentations, and having a baby. I believe the biggest gaps in my application are: lack of clinical experiences, I applied later than planned last year (primaries sent out mid-Aug), and perhaps issues with my interviews (clearly some schools liked me on paper, just not in person).

My question is: is it worth it? Being an older applicant who has already settled down (my husband has a very good job in our town), the idea of getting a job after completing my thesis looks kind of nice right now compared to starting school over, trying to afford living on student loans, and not having a *real* job for another 7-10 years. I know being a doctor is my dream, but I feel very overwhelmed and discouraged right now. I have also considered reaching out to the MSTP director at my institution, but am not sure what that would do. It is very difficult to enter an MD/PhD program starting with your PhD, and I will be on maternity leave when the 2019-2020 applications open (so I am not sure if I even have time to schedule a meeting before then, and I don't want to seem rushed).

Sorry for the long post! Thank you all in advance for any advice!

 

[DocJanItor]

Ok, so there's two aspects of this that I will try to address separately.

1) Is it worth it? - The issue is that you have competing priorities all over the place. You have your PhD, your child, your husband and his job, your own satisfaction. Additionally, exclusive of academic difficulties, you've chosen possibly the hardest path to go into medicine. Particularly since you've done your PhD first. I know of at least one woman in our class who became pregnant, dropped back a year, and then dropped out. Another woman already had multiple young children and had to drop back due to competing demands on her time. My wife had our baby at the end of M1 and he's been a wonderful little distraction, but we've had no significant issues. The only other father I know had another child at winter break and, as far as I know, he is still progressing.

So I think this path is particularly difficult for mothers of young children who don't have a lot of child care options or don't want to spend time away from their baby. It's also just straight up harder on you guys because you're the ones who have to deal with the physical and psychological changes that come with pregnancy and post-natal recovery.

Lastly, you have to uproot your entire life to go to med school wherever you get accepted. If you're only applying to local schools or schools in proximity to where your husband works then that's probably more flexible. If he's out of work at well then that's going to cause a significant amount of stress.

2) Your application - You received 4 IIs, which is amazing, but 0 acceptances, which is surprising. I can't say if it's something about your interview or if it relates to your PhD situation in particular, but my gut is leaning towards interview since (as you said) they invited you in the first place. Also, sadly, having a baby could have something to do with it, although you'd probably never be able to definitively prove it. I don't think it has to do with the timing of your application. Mid-August is not yet late for MD apps.

I would look over things like interview skills, answers to common questions like "why do you want to be a doctor?", and ease of discussing various topics in healthcare. You also just want to examine your general social skills and see if you are making appropriate eye contact, speaking clearly, etc.

Overall, only you can decide if its worth it. I don't believe that there's only one thing in life that can make a person happy. However, if one chooses to believe that only one thing can make them happy then they will never be happy without it.

 

[Goro]

Is it worth it? What does your heart tell you????

 

[Naruhodo]

I'm so sorry anon for what you are experiencing, but I think many PhD-to-MD applicants are surprised how hard it can be to get your foot in the door to medical school. As others have said, 4 interview invites is amazing! (It's 2 more than I got) So probably the main thing is to try to tackle how to make interview days go better. I was in a situation similar to yours, where I had an exciting publication "in the works", but not yet published by the time I was interviewing. I was able to get approval from my co-authors to upload a pre-print to bioRxiv, and I printed it out and brought it to my interview. I worried a bit that it might seem pretentious, but honestly it was useful when asked about my research to be able to flip straight to my figures and take them through some of the main findings. I think the images really bring it alive sometimes in a way that can be hard to do with words alone.

Also, I agree with your assessment that probably clinical experience is what they are most looking for. Probably being able to show some good clinical experiences (volunteering, shadowing primary care, etc.) would be of greater value to your next application cycle compared to talking about your NIH funding, etc.

After getting to medical school, there are a few things that you'll have to get comfortable with. Nobody will perceive or treat you as an expert in anything. I didn't think I had much of an ego coming in, but even so it felt like the years of work I'd put in to make a name for myself in my tiny corner of science were relegated to "Oh what a nice EC", maybe slightly more interesting than the classmate who'd scribed with a neurologist but less interesting than someone who'd taught in an inner city high school. People will be confused by you and your motivations, even when your path seems clear/obvious to you. Sometimes you learn interesting things in the pre-clinical years, but you won't get to the really cool part (taking care of patients) until the clinical years. It will totally change your family life (hours can be unpredictable) but many have made it work with kids/families. In the end it's your call, and I wish you luck in making it.

 

[futuremdforme]

1 - is it worth it? You need to decide. If you're still in your 20s, you could try working to see what that's like an apply in a year if you still find yourself yearning for med school. You should be doing clinical volunteer/exposure now as well as shadowing.

2 - With 4 interviews and no acceptances, it's probably something in the interview or lack of clinical experiences. The publications etc might help you get more interviews next time, but you need to work on the parts that are lacking instead of just beefing up the parts that are already strong.
If you have done more clinical experience recently if you apply this season, the good thing is that you'll be on leave for some interviews but it will be chaos with a newborn. I know someone who did it though (and got in) so do-able.

 

[Campana]

Is it worth it?

As Goro said, only you can answer that. What else will you do with your time? Will you be happy doing that? Have you experienced all the different jobs that include patient contact? I suppose it's presumed that if you are a PhD, then you'd prefer MD over RN or NP or PA...but that isn't necessarily guaranteed. Check 'em all out. Your thoughts on what makes you happy and fulfilled may change with a baby. Or, having a baby may just be a distraction for a period that makes you temporarily forget that you'd really love to be a physician. Birthing another human can fundamentally shift your life views - or it could just make you tired and busy for a period.

The husband's job part - that's tough because you are both at the "beginning" and it's hard to balance whose life goals to focus on for the time being, especially since you may be recovering from pregnancy & delivery and perhaps nursing (pumping in school/work is doable, but not really fun). As long as you are both communicating about options and opportunities for both near and long term, you should be able to come up with a workable plan.

No matter what you decide, the physician door will still be available for you to knock on when / if you're ready - you don't have to rush.

@NaruDO

Nobody will perceive or treat you as an expert in anything. I didn't think I had much of an ego coming in, but even so it felt like the years of work I'd put in to make a name for myself in my tiny corner of science were relegated to a "Oh what a nice EC", maybe slightly more interesting than the classmate who'd scribed with a neurologist but less interesting than someone who'd taught in an inner city high school.

Wow - that's a hard truth to read

 

[Naruhodo]

Wow - that's a hard truth to read

Yes, but to be clear, from my perspective still totally worth it. The closer I get to the next stage and my eventual goal the more excited and content I become.

 

[QofQuimica]

OP, you have a lot of changes going on in your life right now. If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion to a perfect stranger over the internet, stop for a second. Take a breath. Any one of these things (finishing a PhD, having a baby, applying to medical school) is a huge life transition. Trying to take on all three at once may be a bit much for any mortal human being. My advice to you would be to focus on defending your dissertation and the arrival of your new baby for right now. Once you've graduated and had some time to adjust a bit to having a baby in the house, the next thing you should do is contact the admissions offices of one or more of your state schools for counseling on how to best improve your app. Some schools may even offer mock interviews to state residents and other services that you may be able to take advantage of. And if you didn't already know this, we have a huge compendium of interview experiences (including questions that people got asked) here on SDN. So use these resources, and practice your elevator pitch on "why medical school."

Hope this helps, and congrats on your upcoming baby and graduation. 🙂

 

[Scottish Chap]

I am finishing the fourth year of my PhD in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. I applied to medical school for several reasons, including missing having the patient interactions, directly impacting patients' lives, generally loving the field of medicine, not wanting the instability of academic life (relying on grants for funding), feeling burnt out by the mindset of academia (only getting high impact publications if you have big PIs on your manuscripts, etc.), and so on. Looking back, I do not regret getting my PhD first as I would not have realized my desire to go into medicine without it. I love research, but I'm not sure I can see myself being as happy doing any of the careers associated with a PhD alone as I would being an MD/PhD.

A year ago, my plan was to finish my PhD a year early (average graduation rates are 5 years, not 4 at my institution) and enter medical school this summer 2019. I changed my plans after getting pregnant and decided that, should I get into medical school, I would try to defer for 1 year or take a leave of absence for the first semester in order to give myself more time to finish my PhD (as my previous timeline would not have allowed for me to defend by June 2019 due to the arrival of my baby in the coming weeks). However, I was not accepted into any programs and find myself considering whether or not I should reapply.

About my past application: I received 4 interview invitations but was not offered any positions. I have a good UG GPA (3.85) and did relatively well on my MCAT (513). My research is very translational (a clinical trial is starting this spring based on my research) and we are currently developing a manuscript we hope to publish in a high impact journal. I have presented at several conferences and have many abstract and poster awards. I have some shadowing experience in the medical field that I am interested in, although not a ton. I volunteer twice a month at the local hospital with my dog as a therapy dog team. I have made very few modifications to my application, with the exception of receiving NIH funding, new awards, new presentations, and having a baby. I believe the biggest gaps in my application are: lack of clinical experiences, I applied later than planned last year (primaries sent out mid-Aug), and perhaps issues with my interviews (clearly some schools liked me on paper, just not in person).

My question is: is it worth it? Being an older applicant who has already settled down (my husband has a very good job in our town), the idea of getting a job after completing my thesis looks kind of nice right now compared to starting school over, trying to afford living on student loans, and not having a *real* job for another 7-10 years. I know being a doctor is my dream, but I feel very overwhelmed and discouraged right now. I have also considered reaching out to the MSTP director at my institution, but am not sure what that would do. It is very difficult to enter an MD/PhD program starting with your PhD, and I will be on maternity leave when the 2019-2020 applications open (so I am not sure if I even have time to schedule a meeting before then, and I don't want to seem rushed).

Sorry for the long post! Thank you all in advance for any advice!

Nobody can tell you what to do. Having gone through the whole process with all the debt and everything that comes on top of it, I will tell you that I’m glad I did it but it is far from what I thought it would be. You will also take your family through it with you. When I was you, I probably wouldn’t have listened to me... But if there’s anything else out there that you think you could be remotely happy doing, I strongly recommend doing that.

 

[RNthenDoc]

I am an older nontrad also (that’s where our similarities end), but I can tell you that the decision about it being worth it or not came down to my own satisfaction. I walked away from an excellent career in nursing because I believe being a physician is the only thing that will ultimately make me happy from a vocational standpoint.

If you could find happiness/vocational fulfillment sans MD, I would avoid it. MD school has been (thus far, I’m an MS1) quite a hassle, to say the least.

 

[Stellaartwa]

OP - Congrats on the app! You sound like an amazing candidate. I have to say, I'm surprised you didn't get in. I suspect it's an interview issue. If you want to go over interview questions and answers, feel free to PM me. I did a lot of mock interviews and it was really helpful to figure out how certain experiences would be received at a medical school interviews. It may be a good exercise to look up commonly asked interview questions and write our your answers to sort out your thoughts and make sure you're focusing in on medicine and not research.

FWIW, I'm a mom to two young ones and I decided that despite all the sacrifices, a career in medicine would be worth it for me. We'll see if I still feel that way when I'm finishing residency in my 40s. Objectively, it's probably not worth it. There are high opportunity costs associated with medical school, you're going to sacrifice a ton of time with your baby and husband throughout training and if your husband's career isn't mobile, you could take another financial hit from him not working. But again, only you know if those sacrifices are worth it to you.

Q is absolutely right, defending and baby is already enough. I advise you to wait a year, get used to the baby and defend and then consider re-applying in July 2020 or if you can't swing that then July 2021. I know what it feels like to want to start NOW (especially at our ages) but it sounds like you've just got too much going on.