PhD vs MD PhD

[Neuralicious]

Hi all,

So I've been doing some reading on Neuronix's threads and etc.
I was just wondering what other MD PhD & PhD graduates thought about their life styles.

I think my stats are fine to get into either program... Currently a senior, 3.9 + 3 years research. 2.5 years in one lab and only a semester in my new one so far (I have reasons for switching, don't ask). I plan on taking a year off and continuing to work in my new lab. My relationship with my old PI is quite well.

The whole idea was I want to pursue a research career.
A PhD was always an absolute must for me. What I did after was indifferent. I could go work for R&D in industry, or try to one day become a tenured PI. Both options were fine and I thought my current state of life would help me decide when the time came.
I never imagined myself becoming a full time clinician. I always thought the medical school education & training would be viewed as a great resource for hypothesis development, improve problem solving, and just "help" in the research field. When I am asked if I don't get in I would always answer, in such a scenario, I would pay my way through the MD and go do a post-doc equivalent fellowship... but now I am starting to think, what's the point? Why spend all that time training when you could be further ahead of your field by doing it from the get-go (not to mention having 0 debt... and if you find a lab with a tenured PI who doesn't micromanage and good coworkers, it's really enjoyable).

Is this thinking wrong?
Not to mention, I think getting into top tier PhD programs is easier than top tier MD PhD programs.

Maybe just give me some ideas why go MD PhD over PhD? For someone who is interested in studying basic science but would like to see a real life application over his career.
This forum is full of MD PhDs... so I'm hoping I get some nice responses.

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[OddNath]

I think you've answered your own question. Medical school is a whole lot of work, with the goal of becoming a physician (i.e. learning pathophysiology and every drug and bug, then learning how to apply all that to patients). Truly, the only reason to go to med school is to begin the process of how to think like a doctor. I would not recommend it as a way to get ideas about research.

Go into medicine, and MD/PhD, if you picture yourself seeing patients *and* doing research. I did, and still do, but there are still weeks during residency when I want to give up. Don't subject yourself to residency and spending long nights titrating medications to keep patients alive if you already know you want to do 100% research.

If you're still on the fence, I'd recommend shadowing an MD/PhD, someone who treats patients and also has a research program. Watch their patient interactions in clinic, see if it's something that you would need in your career. If not, then seriously, memorizing all those drug mechanisms and diagnostic criteria, and the sleepless nights, would not be useful.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Hi all,

So I've been doing some reading on Neuronix's threads and etc.
I was just wondering what other MD PhD & PhD graduates thought about their life styles.

I think my stats are fine to get into either program... Currently a senior, 3.9 + 3 years research. 2.5 years in one lab and only a semester in my new one so far (I have reasons for switching, don't ask). I plan on taking a year off and continuing to work in my new lab. My relationship with my old PI is quite well.

The whole idea was I want to pursue a research career.
A PhD was always an absolute must for me. What I did after was indifferent. I could go work for R&D in industry, or try to one day become a tenured PI. Both options were fine and I thought my current state of life would help me decide when the time came.
I never imagined myself becoming a full time clinician. I always thought the medical school education & training would be viewed as a great resource for hypothesis development, improve problem solving, and just "help" in the research field. When I am asked if I don't get in I would always answer, in such a scenario, I would pay my way through the MD and go do a post-doc equivalent fellowship... but now I am starting to think, what's the point? Why spend all that time training when you could be further ahead of your field by doing it from the get-go (not to mention having 0 debt... and if you find a lab with a tenured PI who doesn't micromanage and good coworkers, it's really enjoyable).

Is this thinking wrong?
Not to mention, I think getting into top tier PhD programs is easier than top tier MD PhD programs.

Maybe just give me some ideas why go MD PhD over PhD? For someone who is interested in studying basic science but would like to see a real life application over his career.
This forum is full of MD PhDs... so I'm hoping I get some nice responses.

I think the conventional wisdom is that the MD (and residency +/- fellowship) give you that backup so that if a research career fails you can always do clinical medicine. It opens other opportunities, such as consulting and working with pharma in clinical trials, etc., that a PhD would not allow.

I do feel like medical school has helped me see some research questions from a more practical clinical perspective than what PhDs (only) might have. I don't think you need a ton of training - certainly not even residency - to get that sense of what sort of research has a reasonable chance of being translated and bring some benefit to patients, and which does not. I certainly don't think you need a residency for that, the MD alone would help you. But question is, do you even need to go to those lengths of getting an MD?

I think if you had asked me this question before the MD-PhD, during MS1,2 or the PhD, I would definitely say "do the MD-PhD," but now that I'm in 4th year of medical school and applying to residency, I would say, just do the PhD alone. I find clinical medicine unfulfilling, tedious, and frankly often boring. And I think residency is going to be a frightful agony.

It's a gamble, but if you're sure you want to do just research and are confident in your abilities (not just your intelligence and creativity and your hard work, but your networking, publication and presentation savvy, political skill, etc.), then just do a PhD.

 

[Fencer]

For some people, this is very true, insightful and sound. However, some of us MD/PhD, enjoy the practice of medicine and the challenges of translating research into meaningful advances in medicine.