Philosophical Thoughts On Extra/Extended Test Time

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
D

Detective SnowBucket

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2017
Messages
1,544
Reaction score
2,214
Members do not see this ad.
You're an Er doc and a patient stumbles in, profuse bleeding, the real world won't give you time and a half/time and a quarter to act. If you're the employer, I would hesitate hiring someone if they have less experience/practice making quick judgement.

So my question (I am more directing this towards the educators on this forum), what's the rationale for giving people extra time in school?

If it were up to me, I would make it so that people who need extra time are on course to need less and less. Yes these people are at a disadvantage and will have to work harder, but who doesn't have a difficulty to overcome.

I feel you are almost being served a disadvantage if you (as a student needing more time) aren't pushed (within reason, with an individual plan to overcome it) to be able to work on standard time. If I needed more time, I feel like this would help me more later on. Thoughts? Please keep it civil 😉
 
Detective SnowBucket said:
You're an Er doc and a patient stumbles in, profuse bleeding, the real world won't give you time and a half/time and a quarter to act. If you're the employer, I would hesitate hiring someone if they have less experience/practice making quick judgement.

So my question (I am more directing this towards the educators on this forum), what's the rationale for giving people extra time in school?

If it were up to me, I would make it so that people who need extra time are on course to need less and less. Yes these people are at a disadvantage and will have to work harder, but who doesn't have a difficulty to overcome.

I feel you are almost being served a disadvantage if you (as a student needing more time) aren't pushed (within reason, with an individual plan to overcome it) to be able to work on standard time. If I needed more time, I feel like this would help me more later on. Thoughts? Please keep it civil 😉
Click to expand...


Not all doctors are ER doctors or surgeons. There are a very large number of doctors that don’t do emergency response.
 
Just using an illustration to show it is a concern. Do you not think people should be helped to overcome a difficulty rather than letting them live with it?
I think it applies to nearly any profession.
 
Watch a level-one trauma team in action.

The surgeons, nurses, ED docs, medics, EMTs, EKG techs, radiology techs et al don’t hand one physician a passage to read and then wait until he’s finished to decide what happens next. He doesn’t stand and deliberate, dissecting the stem of the question and demarcating the answers he knows are incorrect...

Test taking and the real-world touching of patients is very different!

(Disclaimer, I’m just a goofy premed who happens to do critical stuff, I don’t pretend to have expertise in any field other than what I have been trained in)
 
gonnif said:
1) Schools must adhere to Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 (Section 504) and Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (Title II) else they would violate federal law
2) In accordance with those statutes, medical schools have disability accommodations policies (for example see 3.5: Disability Accommodations | MD Program | Stanford Medicine).
3) In response, most schools have very detailed "technical requirements" in order to be accepted for medical training, thus admissions committee can take into account your ability to perform as a physician in training. For example again Stanford
Technical standards | MD Admissions | Stanford Medicine
(emphasis added)
The MD degree is a broad undifferentiated degree attesting to general knowledge in medicine and the basic skills required for the practice of medicine. Essential abilities and characteristics required for completion of the MD degree consist of certain minimum physical and cognitive abilities and sufficient mental and emotional stability to assure that candidates for admission, promotion, and graduation are able to complete the entire course of study and participate fully in all aspects of medical training, with or without reasonable accommodation.

Stanford Medicine intends for its graduates to become competent and compassionate physicians who are capable of entering residency training (graduate medical education) and meeting all requirements for medical licensure.

4) In sum, while accommodations must be made in premedical education, such as exams and MCAT, similar reasonable accommodation are needed only after the admissions committee has determined that you meet the necessary technical requirements that would allow to be trained in both medical school and residency as well as licensing and practice

So your philosophical hypothetical is just that hypothetical. It doesnt exist in the real world
Click to expand...
Very interesting point. I can't remember if you are an educator or not but despite Title II, I don't see anything about coping with it, only accommodations. That's my real issue, not teaching people to overcome it.
 
Detective SnowBucket said:
If it were up to me, I would make it so that people who need extra time are on course to need less and less. Yes these people are at a disadvantage and will have to work harder, but who doesn't have a difficulty to overcome.
Click to expand...
This isn’t realistic because most disabilities that are eligible for extended time can’t just be “overcome.” As mentioned before, the analogy really can’t be made, especially since accommodations are one way to cope with one’s disability...

I know you originally only mentioned extended time, but If I had a muscular disorder that affected my ability to walk, are you saying that me having a wheelchair would mean that I’m not trying to get better (e.g., be able to walk with a walker or something)? That essentially using the wheelchair would be a crutch in the long term? (Serious question, by the way. This is a topic I’m very interested in.) I guess what I’m asking is are you saying that you think only certain accommodations can be “crutches” or are you saying that all accommodations can potentially be one?

I have multiple diagnoses and thus qualify for multiple accommodations (and extended time is one of them). Even with the extra time I’m at a severe disadvantage compared to my classmates. How do you overcome severe chronic fatigue and the cognitive deficits left after having brain surgery? Or how do I overcome my ADHD? Do I just decide to not be bothered by sensory stuff that most people don’t even notice?

Most individuals who qualify for extra time have a disability that, by definition, puts them at a disadvantage to others in timed situations. Another real life example is a person who had cancer as a child and suffers memory issues because of the chemotherapy they received.

I hope that gives you a view of another perspective. 🙂
 
Last edited:
@psychgirl95 I wish everyone here could keep it together and not get emotional over things they're passionate about, like you. I have no idea, I have never been diagnosed with anything that would give me extra time (closest I've got is that much of my family/extended family has) so I'm not super familiar with the process. And I'm only talking about things in school.

I did like your analogy about the wheelchair because I was only talking about non-physical things, but what I'm talking about is (I worked at a PT place for a lil so its really amazing to see the transformation) when people come in after getting a total knee replacement entirely wheelchair bound and can't even stretch their leg out on their own, PT's really push those people and are walking not long after (like a bit over a month). I have multiple family members with pretty bad ADHD (seems like everyone does at this point) just 'grow up' and stop taking their medication and get on with their lives.
Not everyone will get out of a wheelchair in a month and not everyone will be able to stop taking their medication but if that's what they've decided is better for them, you'll never know if they can do it unless they push for it.

So what bothers me is that I don't feel people are being encouraged to try to stop using what could only just be crutches.
 
Detective SnowBucket said:
@psychgirl95 I wish everyone here could keep it together and not get emotional over things they're passionate about, like you. I have no idea, I have never been diagnosed with anything that would give me extra time (closest I've got is that much of my family/extended family has) so I'm not super familiar with the process. And I'm only talking about things in school.

I did like your analogy about the wheelchair because I was only talking about non-physical things, but what I'm talking about is (I worked at a PT place for a lil so its really amazing to see the transformation) when people come in after getting a total knee replacement entirely wheelchair bound and can't even stretch their leg out on their own, PT's really push those people and are walking not long after (like a bit over a month). I have multiple family members with pretty bad ADHD (seems like everyone does at this point) just 'grow up' and stop taking their medication and get on with their lives.
Not everyone will get out of a wheelchair in a month and not everyone will be able to stop taking their medication but if that's what they've decided is better for them, you'll never know if they can do it unless they push for it.

So what bothers me is that I don't feel people are being encouraged to try to stop using what could only just be crutches.
Click to expand...
In response to the bolded.
I actually respected the point in your OP, that what actually happens to those who need testing accommodation due to ADHD/Dyslexia in the real world, and it has been pointed out to you that the real world != medicine.
But the bolded is just...wrong...on so many levels.
I have ADHD and anxiety problems. My first diagnosis was when I was 8. I tried meds when I was in middle school, but didn't actually stay on any medication consistently until I was in High School and beyond.

I love how my meds make my brain feel. Calm, focused , and I'm not even on the proper dosage ( was less than I should be on).

Why am I not on the right dosage? Side effects. ( TMI alert) Nausea, acid reflux, appetite suppression, intense dry mouth ( think no saliva, I can't swallow) , and brain fog my meds cause me. I'd love to go off them, I'd love not having to worry if my stomach is going to be on fire for the next few hours, I can't work out or eat well, I've lost so much weight. But I just can't go off my meds, my quality of life suffers so much more than those ****ty physical side effects.

I can see what you mean about not needing testing accommodations anymore, but going off medication and " growing up" are not that same thing . It's not a lack of maturity or will to get over their mental illness , it's needing the medication to live a happier , healthier life. I've tried to go off my meds on numerous occasions, and it always ends in tears over how much I can feel the difference in the my concentration/ panic over little things/ find it difficult to interact socially/sit still/ stop me at any time. Why should people push themselves to go off medication? If it makes them in a better place mentally, why should they go off it? What's the motivation for that? The benefit? ( Most psych drugs don't have side effects like mine so generally there so no benefit like there would be for me)

Should people go off asthma inhalers? Allergy medicine? Pain killers? Caffeine? Why should people go off psych drugs?

Btw, I never needed/ had testing accommodations, I don't need them for my particular strain of ADHD, so long as people aren't talking during an exam, which they obviously aren't.
 
Last edited:
I like this thread and threads like these that gets us discussing. Not everyone here has experienced a disability or know anyone with one, so it's good we are helping each other out in understanding. But in terms of the topic on hand, I gotta side with what most people have said on here!
 
mwsapphire said:
In response to the bolded.
I actually respected the point in your OP, that what actually happens to those who need testing accommodation due to ADHD/Dyslexia in the real world, and it has been pointed out to you that the real world != medicine.
But the bolded is just...wrong...on so many levels.
I have ADHD and anxiety problems. My first diagnosis was when I was 8. I tried meds when I was in middle school, but didn't actually stay on any medication consistently until I was in High School and beyond.

I love how my meds make my brain feel. Calm, focused , and I'm not even on the proper dosage ( was less than I should be on).

Why am I not on the right dosage? Side effects. ( TMI alert) Nausea, acid reflux, appetite suppression, intense dry mouth ( think no saliva, I can't swallow) , and brain fog my meds cause me. I'd love to go off them, I'd love not having to worry if my stomach is going to be on fire for the next few hours, I can't work out or eat well, I've lost so much weight. But I just can't go off my meds, my quality of life suffers so much more than those ****ty physical side effects.

I can see what you mean about not needing testing accommodations anymore, but going off medication and " growing up" are not that same thing . It's not a lack of maturity or will to get over their mental illness , it's needing the medication to live a happier , healthier life. I've tried to go off my meds on numerous occasions, and it always ends in tears over how much I can feel the difference in the my concentration/ panic over little things/ find it difficult to interact socially/sit still/ stop me at any time. Why should people push themselves to go off medication? If it makes them in a better place mentally, why should they go off it? What's the motivation for that? The benefit? ( Most psych drugs don't have side effects like mine so generally there so no benefit like there would be for me)

Should people go off asthma inhalers? Allergy medicine? Pain killers? Caffeine? Why should people go off psych drugs?

Btw, I never needed/ had testing accommodations, I don't need them for my particular strain of ADHD, so long as people aren't talking during an exam, which they obviously aren't.
Click to expand...

Hi Sapphire, I was a lurker long before I got my own account and through your posts you've always seemed like such a nice person, I'm sorry this is something you've had to deal with.

I don't mean to imply this is at all a question of maturity, I just meant that in these instances, it was coincidental that they were all adults when they made this decision so I've viewed it simply as something adults do and children don't. Since they are not currently on medication, I assume they don't have quite such bad symptoms but my impetus for this thread in the first place was also, if you could go without the medication would you? But what if you were never presented that as a possible option and simply didn't know. Now thats a little oversimplified for something like medication, but I mean it towards the original intent of the thread, having gone your entire academic career without knowing if you can go without extra time.
Ciao.
 
cj_cregg said:
We agree on that definition, then. It seems to me that OP is suggesting that students with disabilities should not be given reasonable accommodation, or that they should be gradually "weaned off" these accommodations by their schools because if they just try really hard, they will magically get better. I think this is the issue several of us are hung up on. I'm sure we can all agree that someone who cannot meet technical standards with reasonable accommodations should probably not be a doctor.
Click to expand...

I think the remaining question for me is this: managing complex cognitive tasks under time pressure in a distracting environment is more or less a physician job description. Extra time as an accommodation is reasonable for exams but probably not reasonable in a clinical context (work hour limits, patients need timely care). Is the task of test taking fundamentally different and how?
 
gonnif said:
1) Schools must adhere to Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 (Section 504) and Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (Title II) else they would violate federal law
2) In accordance with those statutes, medical schools have disability accommodations policies (for example see 3.5: Disability Accommodations | MD Program | Stanford Medicine).
3) In response, most schools have very detailed "technical requirements" in order to be accepted for medical training, thus admissions committee can take into account your ability to perform as a physician in training. For example again Stanford
Technical standards | MD Admissions | Stanford Medicine
(emphasis added)
The MD degree is a broad undifferentiated degree attesting to general knowledge in medicine and the basic skills required for the practice of medicine. Essential abilities and characteristics required for completion of the MD degree consist of certain minimum physical and cognitive abilities and sufficient mental and emotional stability to assure that candidates for admission, promotion, and graduation are able to complete the entire course of study and participate fully in all aspects of medical training, with or without reasonable accommodation.

Stanford Medicine intends for its graduates to become competent and compassionate physicians who are capable of entering residency training (graduate medical education) and meeting all requirements for medical licensure.

4) In sum, while accommodations must be made in premedical education, such as exams and MCAT, similar reasonable accommodation are needed only after the admissions committee has determined that you meet the necessary technical requirements that would allow to be trained in both medical school and residency as well as licensing and practice

So your philosophical hypothetical is just that hypothetical. It doesnt exist in the real world
Click to expand...

This would be a great response to a thread titled "Legal Thoughts On Extra/Extended Test Time."
 
"Reasonable" accommodations are anything but reasonable. People shouldn't be given advantages over others on the basis of cognitive abilities; the whole point of a test is to fairly evaluate cognitive abilities. If you can't read quickly, you can't read quickly. If you can't do math without a calculator, you can't do math without a calculator. That's who you are, and that's how you should be evaluated relative to other test-takers.

Also, as the yellow tape continues to unwind, the medical profession will become more and more reading-intensive. Physicians with reading disabilities will be at a serious disadvantage in the workplace.
 
Osminog said:
"Reasonable" accommodations are anything but reasonable. People shouldn't be given advantages over others on the basis of cognitive abilities; the whole point of a test is to fairly evaluate cognitive abilities. If you can't read quickly, you can't read quickly. If you can't do math without a calculator, you can't do math without a calculator. That's who you are, and that's how you should be evaluated relative to other test-takers.

Also, as the yellow tape continues to unwind, the medical profession will become more and more reading-intensive. Physicians with reading disabilities will be at a serious disadvantage in the workplace.
Click to expand...

Having extra time on an exam doesn't suddenly make you smarter, it just an attempt to replicate the environment that other students without cognitive delays have. Being dyslexic and given extra time to read a passage or a book doesn't necessarily mean you suddenly understand the material, it just gives you the opportunity to-- if you don't have cognitive delays you have this opportunity from the jump.
 
So then how does spending more than 8 hours resolve the issue? More frequent breaks but same time actually answering qs, maybe?
I accommodate my similar issue by doing the things 1.5x faster or so...But if the issue is fatigue and cognitive impairment and inability to tolerate stress and distraction as one of the prior posters mentioned that seems more likely to present problems in clinical context too.
 
tammyp said:
Having extra time on an exam doesn't suddenly make you smarter, it just an attempt to replicate the environment that other students without cognitive delays have. Being dyslexic and given extra time to read a passage or a book doesn't necessarily mean you suddenly understand the material, it just gives you the opportunity to-- if you don't have cognitive delays you have this opportunity from the jump.
Click to expand...

Why not have open-book tests for unintelligent people, while intelligent people get closed-book tests? That way, the unintelligent people will be able to have as much knowledge about the test's subject in their noggins as the intelligent people. It'll make it more fair. After all, it's not unintelligent people's fault that they can't pass board exams due to an inability to absorb new information; their brains are just less powerful.
 
Osminog said:
Why not have open-book tests for unintelligent people, while intelligent people get closed-book tests? That way, the unintelligent people will be able to have as much knowledge about the test's subject in their noggins as the intelligent people. It'll make it more fair. After all, it's not unintelligent people's fault that they can't pass board exams due to an inability to absorb new information; their brains are just less powerful.
Click to expand...

What you’re describing is testing your knowledge in two completely different formats. Time doesn’t change the amount of knowledge in your head. And an unintelligent dyslexic person would be given the same amount of time as an intelligent dyslexic person so I’m not sure why you used that example
 
I work in the ED of a busy level 1 trauma center. Totally different skills. Also-- the people who overcome disability and manage to thrive, getting into med school, through pre-clinical and clinical experiences and residency are often the most incredible doctors. They often have to work themselves to the bone, and it pays off when it comes time to practice, but really I think nothing pre-clinical reliably indicates much of anything.
 
cj_cregg said:
And again, if there is fatigue, cognitive impairment, inability to tolerate stress/distraction that is so severe that it impacts clinical abilities, then they would likely not be applying to or getting into medical school in the first place because they don't meet technical standards. So that's pretty much a moot point.
Click to expand...

I didn’t invent the alleged moot scenario, it’s what @psychgirl95 referenced above. Sounds like we’re on the same page anyway.
 
What happened to the bleeding patient. It's been three days. And no one has given provided an intervention for him.

All clinical vignettes should stop after 11 words and start critiquing you for spending too much time solving it because you should have solved it already.
 
Last edited:
(Vitals
Source determination and control by the most appropriate and timely available means
Type and cross
Obtain access and resuscitate)
All of above in whatever order can happen quickest and simultaneously

Quick pattern recognition and simultaneous eval/tx under time pressure and distracting environmental and cognitive load essential
 
Select All That Apply said:
All clinical vignettes should stop after 11 words and start critiquing you for spending too much time solving it because you should have solved it already.
Click to expand...
This is called "premature closure" and you will be dinged in your OSCE!
 
siliso said:
I didn’t invent the alleged moot scenario, it’s what @psychgirl95 referenced above. Sounds like we’re on the same page anyway.
Click to expand...
Yikes! I never said the deficits were so severe that one can’t function; at that point someone would probably be on disability for the rest of their lives. If you’re being offered school accommodations, then chances are you’re that not so disabled that you can’t function on your own 😵! (Especially since you can’t apply for accommodations until after you’ve been accepted to the school and thus met any technical standards.)

However, you absolutely can have severe fatigue and executive function issues (e.g., ADHD) and still make it to medical school because you meet the technical standards (again, individuals who’ve undergone chemotherapy can have these issues) and be successful. I’ll be able to give you more information in a few years 😉. But until then, just ask any medical student with a chronic condition (e.g., an autoimmune disorder) who suffers from fatigue (e.g., Hashimoto’s, Sjogrens, even Chron’s, etc..) and I’m sure they’ll tell you more (if they’re willing to share that kind of personal information). 🙂

cj_cregg said:
I can assure you that all of us would just rather not have the disease to begin with.
Click to expand...
Beautifully put. Why would anyone want to be “abnormal” in the first place? Not only that, but studies have been done about whether extra time gives a so-called “advantage” or not and the results have been pretty interesting.

cj_cregg said:
Again, haven't seen any evidence that folks who I know have extended test time for ADHD or similar are unable to do this sort of quick thinking in a real life environment. Unless someone can provide some evidence this is the case, it's really just conjecture, no?
Click to expand...
He or she is referring to my post where I mention having severe fatigue and cognitive deficits (e.g., brain fog) from a recent brain surgery, so I’m not sure if the post was necessarily made with ADHD in mind or not.

Detective SnowBucket said:
So what bothers me is that I don't feel people are being encouraged to try to stop using what could only just be crutches.
Click to expand...
Okay, I get what you’re saying and I can kinda understand where you’re coming from. The issue is just it’s hard to tell the difference between an individual who uses accommodations and really doesn’t need them (because there are some people who do this) and someone using them because they truly need them. Plus, it’s not really anyone’s business to try to judge which situation a person fits in or try to tell them how to handle their disability (and life). But yeah, I definitely get what you’re saying because in an ideal world, no one would need accommodations to perform at their true potential.

Also, have you taken bioethics? If not, I think you’d probably really enjoy it! (I took it last semester and my class got to discuss topics like this.)
 
Last edited:
Osminog said:
Why not have open-book tests for unintelligent people, while intelligent people get closed-book tests? That way, the unintelligent people will be able to have as much knowledge about the test's subject in their noggins as the intelligent people. It'll make it more fair. After all, it's not unintelligent people's fault that they can't pass board exams due to an inability to absorb new information; their brains are just less powerful.
Click to expand...

Might want to brush up on your logic there.
 
Hey and if the issue is recent surgery from which you expect to recover then the scenario will hopefully be moot for you too. The background for me is seeing people hit the limits of their cognitive/psychological capacities (despite reasonable accommodations) very late in the game (sometimes in residency) which is particularly devastating for them given all the struggle and years invested, and I wonder if the people have been well served by a system that let/assisted them to barely grind their way almost to the finish line but not quite. It’s rough.
 
Have you seen the way people flip out if their MCAT testing center has any noise or technical issues? If we really want testing to mirror actual work circumstances, shouldn't we be taking the MCAT in a busy ED hallway with people interrupting us every 10 minutes and not complaining that there was faint construction noise or that the person nearest you was clicking their fingernails? Do you plan to go to the wards with earplugs in hand for whenever you need to think, or is that a special accommodation for the special circumstance of taking the MCAT?

I receive accommodations. I need to be able to stand up and stretch without disturbing classmates + the chairs in the testing room are so horrendous that I end up speeding through my test trying to outrace the inevitable back spasm, I need to have a water bottle and an inhaler with me which is otherwise not allowed, and I have ADD. Giving me extra time is the easiest way for my school to address this. Conveniently, real life is not at all like exams and so in my extensive experience in multiple jobs (including years in a highly-demanding STEM field and time in physically demanding jobs) my disabilities have not been an issue beyond needing a halfway-decent office chair. Everyone I know who has ADHD, needed accommodations in school, and is now in a real job is doing great. I also don't know anyone who didn't work on their coping abilities just because they got an extra 20 minutes on the test -- which, by the way, often comes with downsides like not being able to just raise your hand to ask for clarification or getting the clarifying info that gets written on the board in the main testing room.

If you're actually worried, you should take comfort in the fact that people with testing accommodations still have to find ways to manage their disabilities outside of the testing room. Exams are not a magical portal into your future job, with everything else (studying, time management, discipline, ability to communicate and take criticism, ability to handle normal life experiences, organization and commitment to make all the appointments and get all the documentation and argue with all the professors to get accommodations in the first place) being somehow irrelevant. It's very much the opposite. So while my physical issues make vascular surgery unlikely, most of medicine is sufficiently in reach.

I'm not sure why people think it's that big of an advantage, either. If you don't have a disability that requires accommodations and you're struggling so badly that extra time would really substantially alter your performance, then you should focus on improving your own testing skills. Call this question philosophical all you want, it still makes it sound like you haven't acquired the insight, understanding, and ability to think of others that people want in a doctor. I haven't grown out of my ADD, but learning about people's actual lived experiences is definitely something that you can - and should - do.
 
People need accommodations because they might have learning disabilities or impairments. That doesn't mean that they can't become doctors or won't become great doctors. It just means that they might need more time on taking tests than another person and test-taking ability doesn't translate to ability to make split-second clinical decisions. Clinical judgement is very different than test-taking aptitude. Think about it. Does passing Step 1 mean that you're a doctor and can go around making diagnoses and treatment plans on your own? No. At that point, you think you know a lot but in reality, you know just enough to be dangerous. That's why clinical training takes so long. Otherwise we would just finish med school after Step 1 and become practicing physicians.

Further, the vast majority of medical disciplines don't require a doctor to make split-second life-or-death decisions. Even if we entertain the far-fetched idea that those who need more time on exams somehow also are impaired in clinical decision-making, those individuals could choose almost any other field than emergency medicine. Just like how someone who hates human interaction could choose to become a pathologist.
 
I created an account just so reply to this thread. As someone with ADHD, most of the doctors I interacted with in the department I shadow think very highly of my ability to become a doctor. While yes, I do need extra time on examinations to do well on exams and I was approved for extra time on the MCAT and scored in the top 5% and no, I do not think I could have done that well with the extra time.

Furthermore, in a hospital, it is not just the doctor. The nurses, residents, fellows, AND attendings come together to decide the best course of treatment for the patient. It is not just the doctor that decides what to do. Finally, during my shadowing, I saw a symptom and was able to immediately come up with a possible diagnosis and provided a strong and thorough explanation to why I came up with it and the residents present were impressed I had such an impressive justification for someone who is only a UG. So no, disability =/= inability.
 
Mister Doctor said:
Finally, during my shadowing, I saw a symptom and was able to immediately come up with a possible diagnosis and provided a strong and thorough explanation to why I came up with it and the residents present were impressed I had such an impressive justification for someone who is only a UG. So no, disability =/= inability.
Click to expand...

I was with you until this.
 
I don't have a problem with certain people getting more time. What I do have a problem is that the justification is that these people have something that puts them at a disadvantage, and that needs to be accounted for. If this is the justification, it kind of sucks because you cannot account for other things that can impact a persons ability to do well but aren't officially "diagnosable". For example, someone's first language may not be English, so they read slow. You can't really "diagnose" this, but it may unfairly impact that person.
 
Ok but what does it mean that I've been wanting to respond to this thread for like 6 minutes but still have nothing and need more time?


can i still be doctor :shy:
 
cj_cregg said:
As a med student who takes multiple medications daily and has accommodations for a medical condition...100% yes if I could go without medication, I would do it. 100% yes if I could go without accommodations I would, and I already use them as minimally as possible. But sorry, my immune system is going to keep attacking my own cells no matter how hard I work to "overcome" it. The other students I know who use accommodations have the same mindset about it. We don't want to be sick. We don't want to ask for "special privileges" or need extra help just to get through the day. We don't want to be 25 years old and taking 10 pills every morning. We're not idiots, we know that we could try to do things without the accommodations/meds. Heck, many of us have tried to...and that landed me in a worse place than I would have been if I had just asked for help earlier. But we're not just using accommodations because it makes things easier for us. We're using accommodations because we need them. We also tend to self-select into specialties we know will work for our lifestyle/needs. I can assure you that all of us would just rather not have the disease to begin with.

I don't have extended test time (though others with my disease do need/have it), but as for people who do....just from a practical perspective, if they didn't need the extra test time, they would just be finishing within the already allotted time and know that they didn't need it. It's not like they need to revoke their rights to accommodations to figure out if they're able to take the test in 2 hours instead of 3.


Is sitting down for 8 straight hours to read and answer 240 multiple choice questions fundamentally different from a series of 15 minute appointments in which you talk with somebody, examine somebody, write a brief progress note, then move on to the next thing? My answer is yes. The individuals I know with ADHD struggle with tasks where they need to sit still and focus on one thing for long periods of time, and excel in environments where they are being more active/hands-on, frequently changing tasks, etc.
Click to expand...

This so much. When I was a senior in highschool, I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder. It hurt so very much, it made sleeping very hard. I kept getting shamed, though, or at least that's what it felt like. No one took it seriously, even when it was so very noticeable. I felt shamed. The accommodations I got were ignored by the staff, I was told to deal with it. It was beyond embarrassing. I tried, for a long time, to just deal. I went to college thinking that, too. Unfortunately, after an incident, I couldn't just deal with it. I wasn't normal and that mindset cost me dearly.

Tldr: No one WANTS to be sick, we try. We really try to 'deal with it'. I DID deal with it. I really tried dealing with it. I didn't bother asking for help- not after they bluntly told me to ignore my accommodations. (Which almost killed me) I tried being normal- tried living without accommodations at that time. It only made things far worse.

People don't choose to get accommodations because they want it, they choose them because they need it. Its not an advantage, trust me on that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Firephoenix938
Thoughts on NeoMed?
Replies
4
Views
963
Firephoenix938
Firephoenix938
O
Thoughts on contacting college due to error on secondary?
Replies
5
Views
978
AsclepiusAdvisingLLC
AsclepiusAdvisingLLC
N
  • Locked
Thoughts on PreReqs
Replies
3
Views
699
gyngyn
gyngyn
J
Thoughts on Adversity Essay Topics?
Replies
5
Views
1K
LindaAccepted
LindaAccepted
B
Thoughts on doing an accelerated BSN degree (plus pre-reqs) as a post-bacc?
Replies
12
Views
7K
beanovertokyo
B
Top