-
CycleTrack and SDN are teaming up to make medical school admissions more transparent and accessible! Read the announcement to learn how we’re supporting the future of CycleTrack’s free application-tracking tools .
Physical Chemistry
Started by korndoctor
Get help with your application
Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.
At my university P-chem was a 400 lvl class, and it was similar in difficulty to second semester O-chem (a 300 lvl class) and analytic chem (also 400 lvl). I would say it is significantly harder (in my experience) than g-chem, though certainly doable if your motivated to get that A 🙂
I thought that physical chemistry was much easier than organic chemistry. It requires a good deal of math, so it was technically harder than Gen Chem, but it was much more interesting. I took it as a 300 and 500 level course.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Yeah....I guess it just depends whats harder for you...mechanisms and theory or math and computations. If you do okay in chemistry though I wouldn't worry too much.
Physical chemistry was my hardest class ever, hands down. I have seen others agree or disagree though so it probably depends on your aptitude for the subject material in general. I'm not a huge fan of physics either.
N
njbmd
korndoctor said:
Hi there,
If you have the pre-requisite math skills, physical chemistry is a great class. You HAVE to understand the concepts and have the proper math background is key to this.
If your math is lacking, get a good review book and get up to speed before the class starts. Then physical chemistry becomes a multitude of Aha! moments and interesting problems.
I did not find P. Chem particularly difficult. It is just a different way of thinking (more advanced) than general chemistry. The problem-solving was just great.
njbmd 🙂
korndoctor said:
be worried, be very worried... more than 5 years later I still have nightmares about it. Just kidding. Miraculously I ended up doing very well in pchem thanks solely to the fact that I've always been rather math-inclined. However, conceptually the course was way beyond my grasp -- I just found myself plowing through one meaningless equation after another to arrive at some meaningless result. I actually preferred calculus more where you can just play with numbers without the pretense of grand importance assigned to them. All in all, if you're on this forum, pchem is about as useless as ochem for your career aspirations.
There have been other threads about this topic. Bottom line: if you have a very strong math background you'll be fine. If you don't, you'll be struggling. I was a math/chem dual major and found that complex analysis, linear algebra, and group theory were very helpful (and above and beyond the math requirements). I wish I'd had abstract algebra (aka modern algebra) before pchem for a more thorough group theory background than my combinatorics class. But I will say that complex analysis cut down the raw nasty calc computations with just a few simple theorems. Unfortunately, my prof didn't know those theorems and thus forbade me from using them to their fullest extent, but they still helped enormously. It was worth proving one theorem on an assignment just so I could use it.
Hellboy said:
For most current docs, you are probably right. But things are getting more and more "molecular." I would argue that a strong background in organic chemistry or physical chemistry will be an asset, expecially for the clinician/scientist.
LucidSplash said:
I'm with Lucid.
I agree with njbmd too, though. If you have the math background it will be MUCH easier. I had just taken the minimum pre-reqs (All of calc, and the necessary chem) and it was NOT sufficient. The kids who rocked it had linear algebray and differential equations in their "toolbelt" as well (yes, that is a double entendre 🙂).
I agree with this. PChem wasn't bad for me at all. It was much more intuitive than Orgo. If know know math you can derive almost all the equations you need to know from a few that you must learn.RxnMan said:
It's a fun class, though. If you're worried, take an extra blow-off course those terms (History of archaelogy? Hell yes! I loved that class!)
Orgo makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than Pchem ever did. Pchem is to the chemical equivalent of physics: you use equations and formulas and pretend you're not in a math class. But you really are. Keep that in mind. Organic chemistry is about stick figures and friendships (all these atoms bonding with one another). If you're math based, you'll do well in the math class. If you're artsy, you'll do well in the art class. But any class that expects you to use a calculator during in-class tests cares more about calculation than conceptualizing. So when you take it, don't delude yourself into thinking understanding chemistry will help you in the class. Just work on the formulas, and get out of there.
L
ladydoc2be
Well had to take p-chem last semster and I must say that it was hard, but it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. I didn't have a very strong math background and I hated physics so I was worried, but I made it through with a B. You learn pretty much the same topics as in gen chem & physics, but you just solve the problems in a more complicated calculus based way. Once you get the hang of using the equations it's not that bad. Good luck!korndoctor said:
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
PChem lab is by far the worst science lab you will ever take. It is extremely time consuming. The lecture isn't so bad, but the lab is rediculous (depending on your school). Error analysis alone will took me over 10 hours to do on some labs, and this was with using excel. Pchem lab is extremely tedious. Try to take the lecture and skip the lab.
I think there might be an issue of semantics here. We have P-Chem split into two classes at my school: PChem I is quantum mechanics, while PChemII is thermodynamics. Obviously the one class dealing with the super-small (hows that for quantitative terminology?) and the other class dealing with the super-big aren't dependant on each other. In other words, you don't have to take them in order.
Undoubtedly, the thermo class was one of my favorite classes I ever took at the university. Someone previously spoke about deriving equations and understanding things. That is exactly how I felt with this class.
PChem I, on the other hand, is a whole different matter. If the same poster was saying s/he can derive Hamiltonian operators, Med School is a waste for him/her. They should immediately transfer to Cambridge instead and start working with S. Hawking. Half the time I ask questions in class about how to do something, my prof replies, "Someone else did it for you. Be grateful." Quantum Mechanics, though I understand the hand-waving part of it, has been the most insane (and humiliating) process. That being said I'm getting above a C, and since I graduate soon, that's all that matters.
Undoubtedly, the thermo class was one of my favorite classes I ever took at the university. Someone previously spoke about deriving equations and understanding things. That is exactly how I felt with this class.
PChem I, on the other hand, is a whole different matter. If the same poster was saying s/he can derive Hamiltonian operators, Med School is a waste for him/her. They should immediately transfer to Cambridge instead and start working with S. Hawking. Half the time I ask questions in class about how to do something, my prof replies, "Someone else did it for you. Be grateful." Quantum Mechanics, though I understand the hand-waving part of it, has been the most insane (and humiliating) process. That being said I'm getting above a C, and since I graduate soon, that's all that matters.
Now see, I rather liked the quantum part of pchem. Especially there, the more math background you have, the better. (btw: my pchem semesters were switched from yours.)
I thought thermo was harder than quantum, although I did well in both. Thermo is more abstract. In quantum you can relate pretty much everything back to classical mechanics. Honestly, solving the schrodinger equation and working with operators isn't that hard, all you need is a decent background in linear algebra. PChem quantum mechanics at the undergraduate level never even touches the time dependent S. Equation. If you throw in time into the S. Equation, things get a lot worse.
novawildcat said:
Are we talking about the same quantum mechanics? Electrons as purple hazes with a diffuse mass or being in more than one place at a time? Last time I checked, baseballs were only in one place. Ever.
I also had a far superior teacher for thermo, one of the best in the nation, IMHO. But quantum is still just stupid.
Do you HAVE to take P*Chem? Your post didn't say if you were taking this for fun or what?
I loved P*Chem, both semesters. Don't worry too much about the difficulty (if you have all the prereqs, and remember the stuff). I had to work a little more than avg. for an A in the class, but it was really fun stuff. The Quantum stuff threw some ppl for a loop. It was like they just overloaded their RAM and locked up! I see this everyday in the HS Chemistry class I teach.
Having said that, I saw a shirt once that said, "I survived P*Chem!"
BTW - my prof dabbled in the time dep. Schrod. Eq. but after only a couple of us got it on the test I think she counted it as extra credit. She was a NUT!! Most of the class hated her (particularly bc she could not complete a sentence before moving on to the next thought), but she knows her stuff. She was especially interested in talking about medical imaging with me after class.
I loved P*Chem, both semesters. Don't worry too much about the difficulty (if you have all the prereqs, and remember the stuff). I had to work a little more than avg. for an A in the class, but it was really fun stuff. The Quantum stuff threw some ppl for a loop. It was like they just overloaded their RAM and locked up! I see this everyday in the HS Chemistry class I teach.
Having said that, I saw a shirt once that said, "I survived P*Chem!"
BTW - my prof dabbled in the time dep. Schrod. Eq. but after only a couple of us got it on the test I think she counted it as extra credit. She was a NUT!! Most of the class hated her (particularly bc she could not complete a sentence before moving on to the next thought), but she knows her stuff. She was especially interested in talking about medical imaging with me after class.
peetie said:
Uhhh yes. One of the postulates of quantum mechanics is that every observable in classical mechanics there corresponds a hermitian operator in quantum mechanics. So a lot of quantum can be *related* back to classical mechanics.
novawildcat said:
I think what the poster means is that classical mechanics is NOT quantum mechanics - the big picture. Considerable mathematical parallels, yes, but the differences have amazing consequences.
well. I just have to take one semester of pchem and the respective lab as one of the requirements for chemE. it says it's dealing with thermodynamics. is there anyway i can prepare for it? the prereq for pchem says 4 semesters of calc (4th semester deals with differential equations).
I'm just worried about the math requirement because a lot of people on here have stated that they had math beyond calculus.
I'm just worried about the math requirement because a lot of people on here have stated that they had math beyond calculus.
korndoctor said:
Yes, you should be worried about its difficulty. Not to say you will definitely have difficulty with it; it depends on your strengths and your school and what pchem it is (pchem for engineers vs. pchem for others). It's very mathematical and can get very complex if you take the engineering version of it. Lots of formulas and pretty heated derivations and calculations. Personally, I had some trouble with it but was able to do well with quite a bit of effort. As a general rule (at least among chemistry majors) the more you liked organic the less you will probably like pchem, the less you liked organic the greater chance you might like pchem.
korndoctor said:
the engineering version might be REALLY different than the chemistry department version - as in way more practical/applied and therefore potentially easier. i took an engineering course that covered pchem with a few other random topics thrown in for good measure, and it was much easier that the classes taken by other posters sound.
LucidSplash said:
👍 👍 DON'T TAKE PHYSICAL CHEMISTRY unless you have to. I have a BA in biochemistry and had to take Physical Chemistry. It was the second to hardest course I ever took (the hardest being biophysical chemistry) and every day I was taking the course I thought I would fail. It is 1000 times harder than general chemistry and if you have a bad teacher like I did (f*cking bitch B. Gersten may G-d have mercy on her crazy soul), it is 10,000 times harder. If you are taking it, take it when you are applying to medical school (like I did) so if you get a bad grade, they won't see it in your GPA until they already accept you and ask for trascripts
. It worked for me. Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
whyworldhateme? said:
i prefer mechanisms and theory to math and computations ANYDAY! when i took it i had to use this God awful software called "MathCad", which should have had a "how to use this beast" course as a pre-req to P Chem! and at the end we took the ACS standardized exam for our final 👎 i came out with an A-, which was more than enough for me at that point! whew!
edit: oh, and did i mention, our tests were like 9 page long take home KILLER problem tests, that when added to all the paper it took to show our work (and the computers work) what i handed in was like an inch thick! i had many a sleepless night trying to crack some of those problems and never did.
werd said:
😱 😱
😱 😱 don't SAY those words!!!!
werd said:
yup! i think i lost like 8 pounds that semester from the stress and lack of sleep (and food, i had no time to eat)! but i made out pretty well.
Similar threads
