Physician Suicide Letters

[911 Turbo]

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With all do respect, you didn't mention what your "word" is based on. I wouldn't automatically assume that you experience things exactly the same way as everyone around you. Few things, if any, in life have zero stress for everyone at all times. And a little stress isn't bad anyway.

its finals week and this definitely isnt true

 

[Gauss44]

Unpleasant is the person who speaks with absolute certainty, and tells people what to do (ie. make room for someone who actually wants to be a physician).

You stated firefighters and police officers had a more stressful job than physicians, because that's what you googled. I was merely debating this fact with you.

I am not deterred or afraid of any of the challenges I mentioned above. And I am not afraid of a little good ol stress every now and again either.

Check the post you are on though..the data doesn't lie. Docs kill themselves more often than firefighters and police officers. Let's not change the subject here on me and what my personal goals are.

Guass I'm sorry to break it to you..but you are a little clueless. Not everything is roses in life. We are just being realistic with you, and trying to be as objective as possible. Whether or not you want to accept that is entirely your prerogative. If you want to continue being slightly delusional about shadowing doctors and whatever else, feel free. You are probably going to be in for a rude awakening though...

Lies.

I didn't google anything.
I agree that everything isn't roses, but that's something new that you just brought up. I didn't say that.

 

[Gauss44]

There have been some truly horrendous moments in med school so far. Thankfully I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. But I think you can take some solace in the fact that it is still an incredible profession, once you sift through all the administrative/bureaucratic BS so prevalent in this field. It's pretty cool to have knowledge that most people will never have. But, as Ismet and others have said, it is certainly stressful, and the life of a physician, overall, is also pretty stressful. And with stress being so subjective, I would never be so arrogant to speak in absolutes about what is or isn't more stressful. Life is full of gray.

There are absolutes in life AND shades of gray. Yes, life is full of gray.

 

[Ismet]

With all do respect, you didn't mention what your "word" is based on. I wouldn't automatically assume that you experience things exactly the same way as everyone around you. Few things, if any, in life have zero stress for everyone at all times. And a little stress isn't bad anyway.

The post of mine that you quoted earlier stated that I have gone through 2 years of medical school, and I very clearly stated that I do not personally have experience in other professions, so I'm not sure what more you wanted in order to clarify what my word is based on.

Nobody in this thread said that being a physician was the absolute most stressful job ever. Nobody in this thread said that no other profession is stressful or that no other profession has an increased incidence of suicide. Many things in life and many things in many careers are stressful. This thread is about an article that OP posted about suicide amongst physicians, which is very real and the numbers are scary, and for some reason these threads always turn into pre-meds telling med students and residents that they shouldn't be complaining about their life. 🙄

It's pointless to keep arguing because you'll find out eventually. Maybe you should bookmark this thread and come back to it if/when you go through a few years of med school.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Instead of shadowing, premeds should be required to live two weeks like an intern

Scared Straight: Pre-med Edition

 

[amazing tekkers]

.........no

Scrumptious, nutritious is the key word

http://www.newsweek.com/when-doctors-kill-themselves-85651

This article

Because they worry—not without reason—that if they admit to a mental-health problem they could lose respect, referrals, income and even their licenses. Because, despite the steady increase in the number of women in the field, medicine is still very much a macho profession; physicians are supposed to be the strong ones who care for the sick, not the sick ones who need to be cared for.

 

[Gauss44]

By majority vote, "doctor" will not win the "most stressful" contest unless it's primarily doctors voting.

Individual opinion may vary.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Even if physician doesn't win out as the most stressful career in existence, I still wouldn't take lightly the idea that it has a considerable stress factor. Stress that many have a hard time handling.

We need to get some of SDNs career changer physicians in here to get any meaningful comparisons. I don't think we have any ex-cops, but I think we have at least one ex-firefighter (DocB, I think). Probably have a few ex-military physicians too.

 

[Gauss44]

The post of mine that you quoted earlier stated that I have gone through 2 years of medical school, and I very clearly stated that I do not personally have experience in other professions, so I'm not sure what more you wanted in order to clarify what my word is based on.

Nobody in this thread said that being a physician was the absolute most stressful job ever. Nobody in this thread said that no other profession is stressful or that no other profession has an increased incidence of suicide. Many things in life and many things in many careers are stressful. This thread is about an article that OP posted about suicide amongst physicians, which is very real and the numbers are scary, and for some reason these threads always turn into pre-meds telling med students and residents that they shouldn't be complaining about their life. 🙄

It's pointless to keep arguing because you'll find out eventually. Maybe you should bookmark this thread and come back to it if/when you go through a few years of med school.

I'm not sure what your point is about bookmarking? I think you're making a lot of assumptions about me.

 

[terp720]

By majority vote, "doctor" will not win the "most stressful" contest unless it's primarily doctors voting.

Individual opinion may vary.

it really has nothing to do with who has the "most stressful" job. Just because there are other jobs that are stressful, doesn't take away from the stresses of being a physician, and it doesn't change the facts on suicide.

If you're not worried about it, then great for you. But I would hope if you find your friends and colleagues experiencing this level of stress and depression, you would be more understanding then.

 

[Gauss44]

it really has nothing to do with who has the "most stressful" job. Just because there are other jobs that are stressful, doesn't take away from the stresses of being a physician, and it doesn't change the facts on suicide.

If you're not worried about it, then great for you. But I would hope if you find your friends and colleagues experiencing this level of stress and depression, you would be more understanding then.

Regarding the part in bold: The same goes for you! Only, I don't wish "worrying," anxiety, or mental breakdowns on you. A sense of concern and commitment is good enough.

Correction: I never said that being a doctor isn't stressful. I said that I don't believe it's the "most stressful."

 

[LostinLift]

Many people seem unable to find healthy ways to live and appreciate life --- doctors included.

 

[terp720]

Regarding the part in bold: The same goes for you! Only, I don't wish "worrying," anxiety, or mental breakdowns on you. A sense of concern and commitment is good enough.

Correction: I never said that being a doctor isn't stressful. I said that I don't believe it's the "most stressful."

....and again, as multiple people have said, no one is claiming it is the most stressful, so why do you keep arguing that?

I'm not wish anything on you. Did I say I hope you experience stress/breakdowns? No.. but nice try.

 

[Gauss44]

....and again, as multiple people have said, no one is claiming it is the most stressful, so why do you keep arguing that?

I'm not wish anything on you. Did I say I hope you experience stress/breakdowns? No.. but nice try.

Yes, I said I doubt being a doctor is the "most stressful" occupation. That was one of MY points.

You said, "If you're not worried about it, then great for you." And I could have been more clear, but meant that when it comes to stuff like that, I try to be concerned but not "worried." I think there's a difference between being worried and concerned. As you may or may not agree, worrying isn't good. Concern is okay and sometimes good. Hope that's better.

 

[Lucca]

In this thread an otherwise productive discussion about the prevalence, causes, and consequences of mental health disorders and its incidence in the medical profession is derailed by an immature semantic argument about which profession is objectively the most extreme in a subjective metric.

Guys, seriously. It is important that you realize the social structures that are toxic to the psychological well being of our colleagues and the population in general. Do not brush off warning signs from friends/students like: Tying self-esteem inextricably to gpa, obsessions with finances/money/power, inability to empathize with others due to focusing solely on their own problems, lack of motivation to do things other than work, unhealthy levels of perfectionism, rapidly oscillating periods of highs and lows. TALK TO EACH OTHER AND MORE IMPORTANTLY ***LISTEN*** TO EACH OTHER.

A conversation is not you waiting for your turn to speak. In fact, the best conversations are ones where you never have to speak at all. Truly listen. There is nothing more immediately cathartic or palliative then listening.

 

[deleted407021]

Yes, I said I doubt being a doctor is the "most stressful" occupation. That was one of MY points.

You said, "If you're not worried about it, then great for you." And I could have been more clear, but meant that when it comes to stuff like that, I try to be concerned but not "worried." I think there's a difference between being worried and concerned. As you may or may not agree, worrying isn't good. Concern is okay and sometimes good. Hope that's better.

"Concern" and "worry" are literally synonyms, mate. <=== Immature semantics argument right here @Lucca 😀

You have delivered your point. Well taken. However, I'd implore you, as others have done, to listen closely to what others with more experience have been telling you. There's a wealth of information there, but you need to first drop your cognitive baggage and be open to their input. Lucca put it very well.

 

[Gauss44]

In this thread an otherwise productive discussion about the prevalence, causes, and consequences of mental health disorders and its incidence in the medical profession is derailed by an immature semantic argument about which profession is objectively the most extreme in a subjective metric.

Guys, seriously. It is important that you realize the social structures that are toxic to the psychological well being of our colleagues and the population in general. Do not brush off warning signs from friends/students like: Tying self-esteem inextricably to gpa, obsessions with finances/money/power, inability to empathize with others due to focusing solely on their own problems, lack of motivation to do things other than work, unhealthy levels of perfectionism, rapidly oscillating periods of highs and lows. TALK TO EACH OTHER AND MORE IMPORTANTLY ***LISTEN*** TO EACH OTHER.

A conversation is not you waiting for your turn to speak. In fact, the best conversations are ones where you never have to speak at all. Truly listen. There is nothing more immediately cathartic or palliative then listening.

If you read the OP, you'll find that Lucca's assessment in bold was not the topic of this thread. The OP asked if there is anything that can be done about the problems discussed in the article (in the OP). My objections are: 1. Suicide, in my opinion, is NOT caused by being a doctor or having stress in one's life (contrary the implication in the OP). 2. Mental health is outside of a doctor's purview.

I personally, found the discussion about subjectivity to be interesting and very much on topic. I agree that it is important to both listen and speak, but that's a bit of a digression IMO.

 

[majestic red]

Earlier in the thread, some people were asking about what exactly the nature of the "abuse" during medical training is. I've completed all of my medical school coursework and am just under 2 weeks away from getting my diploma. I'm entering a surgical subspecialty and, during medical school, I did 3 surgical sub-internships at 3 different institutions.

Throughout all of my rotations, I can honestly say: I've never been insulted or yelled at by a resident or attending. Obviously, I got along better with some than others. Some ignored me or forgot my name, some were reluctant to let me do procedures on their patients for fear that I might mess up, some criticized me, and some gave me less-than-stellar evaluations. But none never called me names, threw instruments at me, or did anything to make me feel like they were coming from a malicious place. I would not characterize any of these interactions as "abuse."

I've gotten a decent amount of what I would consider "abuse" from the patient side-- usually from the drunk and belligerent trauma patients showing up in the ED at 3am. I've gotten my fair share of name-calling, foul language, and insults on this front. Some of this is easier to shrug off, and some of this is harder to ignore. It helps that in most cases, these patients are rude to everyone and not just you.

The hours that medical students and resident have to work is considered by some to be abusive. As a sub-I, I was often at the hospital by 4am and there until 10pm. If there was a long OR case, it wasn't unusual for me to stay until midnight or 1am. On one of my rotations, I worked for 4 weeks straight without any days off except my post-overnight call half-days. Those nights when I got home at 1am knowing that I had to be back at the hospital 3 hours later were some of the only times during medical school when I seriously wished that I had done something else with my life.

On most days though, I think it's all worth it. Because, seriously, who else gets to do what we get to do?

 

[deleted407021]

If you read the OP, you'll find that Lucca's assessment in bold was not the topic of this thread. The OP asked if there is anything that can be done about the problems discussed in the article (in the OP). My objections are: 1. Suicide, in my opinion, is NOT caused by being a doctor or having stress in one's life. 2. Mental health is outside of a doctor's purview.

I personally, found the discussion about subjectivity to be interesting and very much on topic.

1: Are you are psychologist? Is your opinion that suicide is is not related to stress in any way informed?

2. Really? How?! Please enlighten us about how mental health is outside the scope of what a doctor is concerned with treating. Have you been made aware of the existence of psychiatry?

EDIT: Typo.

 

[Gauss44]

"Concern" and "worry" are literally synonyms, mate. <=== Immature semantics argument right here @Lucca 😀

You have delivered your point. Well taken. However, I'd implore you, as others have done, to listen closely to what others with more experience have been telling you. There's a wealth of information there, but you need to first drop your cognitive baggage and be open to their input. Lucca put it very well.

Concern vs. worry (There IS an important difference, & you're also right, they are sometimes used or misused as synonyms. Be careful if you use them as synonyms because you might be misunderstood. Some people equate "worrying" with ruminating or anxiety.):
http://www.thepowerofyourawareness.com/teachingsfromwebinars/concernvsworry.aspx
https://www.google.com/#q=concern+versus+worry
http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists...the-difference-between-worry-and-concern.html

Regarding "listening," I believe that I've read thoroughly every post on this thread. There is of course a difference between listening and "understanding" the meaning or intended meaning, and listening and "agreeing." Sometimes you have to agree to disagree. Again, I could go on here but believe that this is a digression.

 

[Gauss44]

Earlier in the thread, some people were asking about what exactly the nature of the "abuse" during medical training is. I've completed all of my medical school coursework and am just under 2 weeks away from getting my diploma. I'm entering a surgical subspecialty and, during medical school, I did 3 surgical sub-internships at 3 different institutions.

Throughout all of my rotations, I can honestly say: I've never been insulted or yelled at by a resident or attending. Obviously, I got along better with some than others. Some ignored me or forgot my name, some were reluctant to let me do procedures on their patients for fear that I might mess up, some criticized me, and some gave me less-than-stellar evaluations. But none never called me names, threw instruments at me, or did anything to make me feel like they were coming from a malicious place. I would not characterize any of these interactions as "abuse."

I've gotten a decent amount of what I would consider "abuse" from the patient side-- usually from the drunk and belligerent trauma patients showing up in the ED at 3am. I've gotten my fair share of name-calling, foul language, and insults on this front. Some of this is easier to shrug off, and some of this is harder to ignore. It helps that in most cases, these patients are rude to everyone and not just you.

The hours that medical students and resident have to work is considered by some to be abusive. As a sub-I, I was often at the hospital by 4am and there until 10pm. If there was a long OR case, it wasn't unusual for me to stay until midnight or 1am. On one of my rotations, I worked for 4 weeks straight without any days off except my post-overnight call half-days. Those nights when I got home at 1am knowing that I had to be back at the hospital 3 hours later were some of the only times during medical school when I seriously wished that I had done something else with my life.

On most days though, I think it's all worth it. Because, seriously, who else gets to do what we get to do?

(click on majestic's quote to expand it)

This, the part in bold, is sort of a bone I have to pick with "the system." Sleep deprivation, I believe, sets people up to NOT do their best work in any capacity: intellectual (learning/executing/response time/more), social, emotional, etc. Sleep deprivation by my understanding is both a short term and long term problem. This is an area that I think will change some time in the future. When it does, I think it will be for the better overall, but might lower doctor's paychecks.

 

[deleted407021]

Concern vs. worry (There IS an important difference, & you're also right, they are sometimes used or misused as synonyms. Be careful if you use them as synonyms because you might be misunderstood. Some people equate "worrying" with ruminating or anxiety.):
http://www.thepowerofyourawareness.com/teachingsfromwebinars/concernvsworry.aspx
https://www.google.com/#q=concern versus worry
http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists...the-difference-between-worry-and-concern.html

Regarding "listening," I believe that I've read thoroughly every post on this thread. There is of course a difference between listening and "understanding" the meaning or intended meaning, and listening and "agreeing." Sometimes you have to agree to disagree. Again, I could go on here but believe that this is a digression.

Digression from a worn out discussion. Agree to disagree. I agree.

Please touch on my questions in post #81. I'm truly interested.

 

[Gauss44]

1: Are you are psychologist? Is your opinion that suicide is is not related to stress in any way informed?

2. Really? How?! Please enlighten us about how mental health is outside the scope of what a doctor is concerned with treating. Have you been made aware of the existence of psychiatry?

EDIT: Typo.

Response:
1. I said "not caused by."
2. Suicide is the direct purview of mental health professionals, not primary care physicians or MDs in general. To clarify, mental health professionals include psychiatrists, psychologists, licensed social workers, etc. Mental health is a complicated field and very much a specialty IMO. Just any doctor is not qualified to treat a suicidal patient.

 

[deleted407021]

Response:
1. I said "not caused by."
2. Suicide is the direct purview of mental health professionals, not primary care physicians or MDs in general. To clarify, mental health professionals include psychiatrists, psychologists, licensed social workers, etc. Mental health is a complicated field and very much a specialty IMO. Just any doctor is not qualified to treat a suicidal patient.

1. That doesn't answer the question: Are you qualified to make such a statement?
2. Psychiatrists = Physicians = MDs I'm not certain that you have the necessary background to make statements about the scope of practice of any kind of physician. At least, you have failed to demonstrate such a background so far ITT. PCPs prescribe drugs for mental health all the time. Additionally, what do you mean by "MDs in general"?

 

[Gauss44]

1. That doesn't answer the question: Are you qualified to make such a statement?
2. Psychiatrists = Physicians = MDs I'm not certain that you have the necessary background to make statements about the scope of practice of any kind of physician. At least, you have failed to demonstrate such a background so far ITT. PCPs prescribe drugs for mental health all the time. Additionally, what do you mean by "MDs in general"?

I disagree with the part in bold. Not all physicians are psychiatrists or mental health professionals. That's an important distinction.

 

[KnuxNole]

It's a tough situation. As we all know, stress in everyone's lives are NEVER ok, and the minimal amount or lack of stress, the better quality of life in a person. Personally, I sometimes do feel envious of a lot of my friends in their 20s who have never had stress in their lives, and never had a dull moment. Living a happy, peaceful life without stress sounds nice. There is zero benefit to having stress in someone's life anyway....

 

[deleted407021]

I disagree with the part in bold. Not all physicians are psychiatrists or mental health professionals. That's an important distinction.

The progression of logic was clear.....Psychiatrist = Physicians = MDs not Physicians = Psychiatrists, as you seem to be suggesting was said. That was really quite obvious. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.

 

[Gauss44]

The progression of logic was clear.....Psychiatrist = Physicians = MDs not Physicians = Psychiatrists, as you seem to be suggesting was said. That was really quite obvious. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.

Now I get it. I wasn't familiar with your nomenclature.

 

[Ismet]

1. Suicide, in my opinion, is NOT caused by being a doctor or having stress in one's life (contrary the implication in the OP). 2. Mental health is outside of a doctor's purview.

1. The implication in the article is that there is an increasing incidence of suicide among physicians, and medicine is generally considered one of the most stressful jobs. Nowhere did I read anything like "being a doctor causes suicide." Since you're so interested in semantics, there is a difference between correlation and causation. You are right, suicide is not caused by being a doctor or having stress in your life. But there IS a correlation between being a physician (or other healthcare professional) and an increased risk of suicide.

2. Um, what? Something you will learn very early in your medical training is that all physicians (well, maybe not so much pathologists or radiologists) will deal with patients with mental health issues. It's pretty naive to think that just because you're not a psychiatrist means that mental health issues are out of your "purview" of medicine. Did you know that most antidepressants are prescribed by primary care physicians and not psychiatrists? How about the patients who don't have insurance and can't afford to see a psychiatrist? Or someone whose culture frowns upon seeking help from a psychologist? Whether you're an ED doc or a cardiologist or a family practitioner in rural USA, you're going to be dealing with mental health.

 

[Gauss44]

1. The implication in the article is that there is an increasing incidence of suicide among physicians, and medicine is generally considered one of the most stressful jobs. Nowhere did I read anything like "being a doctor causes suicide." Since you're so interested in semantics, there is a difference between correlation and causation. You are right, suicide is not caused by being a doctor or having stress in your life. But there IS a correlation between being a physician (or other healthcare professional) and an increased risk of suicide.

2. Um, what? Something you will learn very early in your medical training is that all physicians (well, maybe not so much pathologists or radiologists) will deal with patients with mental health issues. It's pretty naive to think that just because you're not a psychiatrist means that mental health issues are out of your "purview" of medicine. Did you know that most antidepressants are prescribed by primary care physicians and not psychiatrists? How about the patients who don't have insurance and can't afford to see a psychiatrist? Or someone whose culture frowns upon seeking help from a psychologist? Whether you're an ED doc or a cardiologist or a family practitioner in rural USA, you're going to be dealing with mental health.

1. I don't think there's really a correlation. I think the article is trying to make it to look that way.
2. When it comes to suicide, the specialists are psychiatrists, psychologists, etc. Not primary care. Mental health is a complex field that goes way beyond what is taught in medical school. PCPs can triage, but not fully assess mental health patients. They can refer.

 

[Ismet]

It's like talking to a brick wall. Oy.

 

[Gauss44]

Going back to OP:

I've noticed that various applications licensing and possibly for residency ask applicants about their mental health. I suspect that there at least a few, if not many, pre-meds and medical students who refuse to get help for mental health issues because they don't want to have to put that on their applications. There's a problem to solve.

The OP asked what can be done about suicide in this profession. One thing that could be done is making (at least some kinds) mental health treatment available to medical students in a way that wouldn't be visible on their applications down the line. For example, a drop-in center that offers multi-purpose appointments NOT classified as "counseling." These drop-in centers could help people manage their lives in many ways not limited to mental health. More importantly, they could help guide students to make good decisions. For example, they could help a potentially suicidal student weigh the importance of getting treatment which will show up on his/her application, versus having a mental break with worse consequences.

 

[Gauss44]

It's like talking to a brick wall. Oy.

I believe that I've read, considered, and responded to all of your replies. You're definition of "brick wall" must not match mine. Last time I checked a brick wall was someone who didn't read others' comments. If by "brick wall" you mean one who disagrees, then that applies to both of us.

 

[Gauss44]

Yep. Unreal..

I threw in the towel a long time ago lol

Disrespect and rudeness is unnecessary. I've found this to be an interesting debate. And yes, I may hold the minority opinion, but at least I have a basis for it and have taken the time and effort to respond to all of my replies.

 

[Gauss44]

Hi Majestic, thanks a bunch for seeing my post and writing up all that detailed info on your experiences. I greatly appreciate it!!! And very glad to hear that you weren't abused in any way.

I was just wondering though..is there a chance that it's the residents and fellows that take the grunt of whatever this abuse is? Or do you think that even in those positions, abuse from attendings is still highly improbable?

Perhaps times really are changing,
and attendings aren't dishing it out as much as people claim.

There are many attending doctors in the USA and world. I'm sure it depends on where you work. Maybe there's a way to check on who the attending will be and what s/he is like before signing up to work for him/her? Btw, I have seen and read all of your posts on here as well.

 

[Xenoblade]

I think abuse comes from attending physicians who like to abuse medical students because they were subject to the same abuse. It's a vicious cycle that needs to end, but it doesn't seem like it's going to because if we did it, then so should you. 🙁

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

 

[Gauss44]

Nope..you lost me a long time ago buddy. Your combativeness and your lack of desire to hear what everyone around you is saying are what did you in IMO. And that is why I decided not to respond to anymore of your posts. (With the exception of this one haha)

Let's go back to who showed the first sign of "rudeness and disrespect"...I think it was you not I who called me a whiner, and told me to go change my career goals and not be a doc LOL. Get off your high horse dude..it's freakin annoying.

You are a trouble maker..plain and simple.

I didn't think it was disrespectful. Sorry if it came off that way.

And I didn't call you a whiner. I said that the list of complaints you made sounded to me like whining, "oh woe is me," nothing shocking or terrible IMO. A whiner is someone who routinely whines. I haven't noticed that about you. And the doctor question was an honest one, not intended to be rude. I was, and still am to some extent, puzzled.

 

[ejswenso]

I think suicide is a sign of a lack of perspective. If your logic is telling you that ending your life is the answer, then I think you should compare dying with telling the people who depend on you that you need a break and worst case having them fire you. Maybe doctors should spend personal time learning about other fields that need highly ethical/intelligent people.

 

[Ismet]

I think suicide is a sign of a lack of perspective. If your logic is telling you that ending your life is the answer, then I think you should compare dying with telling the people who depend on you that you need a break and worst case having them fire you. Maybe doctors should spend personal time learning about other fields that need highly ethical/intelligent people.

There is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin.

Goodnight y'all.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Growing up in a dysfunctional household, seeing the real poverty of 3rd world countries as a child, having the internet since I was 12, going to high school with gang-bangers and no longer being shocked by stuff on 4chan; medicine... bring it!

 

[deleted407021]

I think suicide is a sign of a lack of perspective. If your logic is telling you that ending your life is the answer, then I think you should compare dying with telling the people who depend on you that you need a break and worst case having them fire you. Maybe doctors should spend personal time learning about other fields that need highly ethical/intelligent people.

........
I'm with Ismet. Good lord, man.

 

[Microglia]

Response:
1. I said "not caused by."
2. Suicide is the direct purview of mental health professionals, not primary care physicians or MDs in general. To clarify, mental health professionals include psychiatrists, psychologists, licensed social workers, etc. Mental health is a complicated field and very much a specialty IMO. Just any doctor is not qualified to treat a suicidal patient.

This is absolutely wrong. 100%. I'm sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about whatsoever.

Every single primary care physician is supposed to screen for suicidal ideations if they think it relevant and they are all supposed to be able to recognize the signs and risk factors. Further, they need to be able to console patients, and refer to the mental health professionals, as well as counsel them into going. The same goes for domestic violence, etc.

Finally, you need to recognize that you aren't qualified to make any definitive statements about the purview of a physician as you have zero real medical experience, no experience with mental health treatment, and no experience with administering health care in general. Your opinions on what is and isn't under the "purview" of a physician will change, or else you will be a bad doctor, the kind they write books about.

 

[deleted407021]

Wait a second 4chan LOL this sounds familiar to me..isn't that the website that the IBM employee Phillip Woods posted on? (The American who was on the Malaysia Air flight?). Had no idea 4chan was a well known site?

Are you saying that you didn't know that 4chan was well known?

Is that rock you're living under a bit drafty? 😀

 

[deleted407021]

Had no idea. The media has been saying it's not well known at all LOL. Guess I shouldn't have believed them...

I'm on my phone so I can't check it out now but will try later on tonight.

It's where internet culture begins. It's like a stellar nursery for memes. It also has a dark side. Beware.

 

[Boolean]

It's where internet culture begins. It's like a stellar nursery for memes. It also has a dark side. Beware.

It's a cesspool of hate and low-brow humor. I'm glad I took a step away from that site. While it most certainly desensitized me to the things I've seen thus far in the hospital, I find having a level of sensitivity is a good thing.