Physician with tattoo

[PaxRoma]

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In one of my rotation I work with a resident who has tattoo of two different colors on their arm. When they are in white coat no one can see but if the person is in scrub, it is quite visible. How will their colleagues and patient think of the resident? If it were you, will you let a surgeon with tattoo do heart surgery on you?

 

[bashwell]

In one of my rotation I work with a resident who has tattoo of two different colors on their arm. When they are in white coat no one can see but if the person is in scrub, it is quite visible. How will their colleagues and patient think of the resident? If it were you, will you let a surgeon with tattoo do heart surgery on you?

Personally, I wouldn't care (unless the tattoo is something offensive or distasteful etc). I don't have a tattoo, but generally speaking, I think tattoos are pretty cool.

Besides, I wouldn't even be awake to see their tattoo if they're doing heart surgery on me (if the tattoo can only be seen while they're in scrubs).

Their PD doesn't seem to care much either since they were admitted and are still a resident. Hey, as long as they're a good surgeon, I have no problem. Don't judge a book by its cover, but rather its content. 😉

 

[Kaustikos]

In one of my rotation I work with a resident who has tattoo of two different colors on their arm. When they are in white coat no one can see but if the person is in scrub, it is quite visible. How will their colleagues and patient think of the resident? If it were you, will you let a surgeon with tattoo do heart surgery on you?

Yes, if they were competent in their specialty. As long as they don't parade around about their ink, it doesn't seem necessary to judge them unless they actually suck at surgery. Or patient care.

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[blub1212]

I am just an M4, but I have tattoos on my forearms. I have never had any issue with any attendings, residents, staff, or patients about it. It isn't like I go around showing them off to people, but they are unavoidably visible in some attire.

 

[kmp0410]

So your asking if someone went through the training to become a doctor, made it through medical school, residency, boards, etc, etc. If I would then deem them not competent because of tattoos?

 

[masaraksh]

As far as CT surgery, its possible that the people who self-select to go into CT surg are very unlikely to be the med students who have tattoos.

 

[PaxRoma]

So your asking if someone went through the training to become a doctor, made it through medical school, residency, boards, etc, etc. If I would then deem them not competent because of tattoos?

No question about competency but what about professional character? or am I bias against the norm here?

 

[Law2Doc]

I am just an M4, but I have tattoos on my forearms. I have never had any issue with any attendings, residents, staff, or patients about it...

Ah but you don't really know what people are saying/thinking behind closed doors. "Not having any issue" with attendings isn't really the threshold. You'll never know who would have done more to go to bat for you throughout your career if you didn't have the visible ink. Or how much better you had to be to overcome your first impression. Point is, that you survived it doesn't mean it didn't have an impact.

 

[deleted480308]

Ah but you don't really know what people are saying/thinking behind closed doors. "Not having any issue" with attendings isn't really the threshold. You'll never know who would have done more to go to bat for you throughout your career if you didn't have the visible ink. Or how much better you had to be to overcome your first impression. Point is, that you survived it doesn't mean it didn't have an impact.

We've had professors and standardized patients both make comments on tattoos to classmates...it is not 100% accepted

 

[ChrisMack390]

I have a tattoo on my bicep. I don't foresee a problem. No one will ever know unless I am in scrubs, and if, for example, one of the attendings on my surgery rotation has a problem with it I will just wear a long sleeve T under my scrubs to that rotation.

It's also a tasteful/meaningful tattoo. If you have a naked chick or a flaming skull or some **** that might be more problematic.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I have a tattoo on my bicep. I don't foresee a problem. No one will ever know unless I am in scrubs, and if, for example, one of the attendings on my surgery rotation has a problem with it I will just wear a long sleeve T under my scrubs to that rotation.

It's also a tasteful/meaningful tattoo. If you have a naked chick or a flaming skull or some **** that might be more problematic.

You aren't allowed to wear long sleeve tees under your scrub top in theOR.

At any rate as L2D notes, those who have tattoos have a hard time understanding how others feel about them. Just because you see no career or social implications doesn't mean that they don't exist.

 

[ChrisMack390]

You aren't allowed to wear long sleeve tees under your scrub top in theOR.

At any rate as L2D notes, those who have tattoos have a hard time understanding how others feel about them. Just because you see no career or social implications doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Hm. Well whatever. I can't imagine it matters that much.

 

[deleted480308]

Hm. Well whatever. I can't imagine it matters that much.

which is why so many people are dumbfounded when they hit a situation when it does in fact matter that much. It's not a question of if it should...it does

 

[BamaNicole]

No question about competency but what about professional character? or am I bias against the norm here?

I highly doubt it would call into question professional character. What if they got them when they were younger....before medical school.....and then developed that professional character? You no zero about a person just by looking at their arms.

Not saying that tattoos make someone immediately unprofessional at all with that statement.

 

[Law2Doc]

I highly doubt it would call into question professional character. What if they got them when they were younger....before medical school.....and then developed that professional character? You no zero about a person just by looking at their arms.

Not saying that tattoos make someone immediately unprofessional at all with that statement.

It creates a first impression. You don't want to go through life overcoming bad first impressions.

 

[Dr. Death]

So your asking if someone went through the training to become a doctor, made it through medical school, residency, boards, etc, etc. If I would then deem them not competent because of tattoos?

I agree. What a ludicrous, idiotic, elitist statement.

 

[BadgerBadger]

Don't get one that's visible under your scrubs until you're an attending/resident. I'm sure you can wait a few years to get one. Or conversely, get one (or a few!) that are only visible if you were to take off your scrubs in the OR.

 

[blub1212]

Ah but you don't really know what people are saying/thinking behind closed doors. "Not having any issue" with attendings isn't really the threshold. You'll never know who would have done more to go to bat for you throughout your career if you didn't have the visible ink. Or how much better you had to be to overcome your first impression. Point is, that you survived it doesn't mean it didn't have an impact.

I am fully aware of the impact that it can and sometime does have. But, to be bluntly honest I don't mind it. Where I come from and who I am is completely different than the elitist society that dominates the medical profession. I prefer to remain true to how I grew up and where my family comes from, regardless of the impressions that it may have on the people around me. I don't shout it from the rooftops that I am different, but I don't hide it either.

 

[Law2Doc]

I am fully aware of the impact that it can and sometime does have. But, to be bluntly honest I don't mind it. Where I come from and who I am is completely different than the elitist society that dominates the medical profession. I prefer to remain true to how I grew up and where my family comes from, regardless of the impressions that it may have on the people around me. I don't shout it from the rooftops that I am different, but I don't hide it either.

Problem is, how you feel now might not be how you feel five, ten, fifteen years from now. But that tattoo is still going to be there. You might legitimately feel that your ink is more important than your career at this stage but after a decade or two of living within the "elitist" medical society you might realize your career is a whole lot more important to you than whatever emblem you thought was so important back when. Point is you don't know what your mindset will be years from now. A lot of things that seemed important to me when I was younger aren't nearly as important today. You'll mature and mellow. And you don't know what impact it will have on your career or whether that's going to be a bigger deal to the you of ten years from now.

 

[blub1212]

Problem is, how you feel now might not be how you feel five, ten, fifteen years from now. But that tattoo is still going to be there. You might legitimately feel that your ink is more important than your career at this stage but after a decade or two of living within the "elitist" medical society you might realize your career is a whole lot more important to you than whatever emblem you thought was so important back when. Point is you don't know what your mindset will be years from now. A lot of things that seemed important to me when I was younger aren't nearly as important today. You'll mature and mellow. And you don't know what impact it will have on your career or whether that's going to be a bigger deal to the you of ten years from now.

You could be right. I guess we will find out as the years pass. But as a 30 year old person who got their first tattoo 13 years ago, I highly doubt I will mature and mellow too much more. But who knows, perhaps I will be willing to leave behind the culture that I grew up in some day.

 

[Stagg737]

No question about competency but what about professional character? or am I bias against the norm here?

Depends on the tattoo. If it's just one or two on the arms and I don't think any reasonable individual would look at it as being unprofessional. If it's something explicit or covers a person's neck or part of their face then I'm sure many people might view it as less professional. Personally, I think it's ridiculous that someone would be seen as an inferior physician or less professional because of some tattoos, but I also think it's none of anyone else's business what a person does to their own body.

 

[Elevencents]

Soon the number of people with tattoos will outweigh those without. I guess that just means professionalism will eventually cease to exist.

 

[togaedere]

I'm consistently flabbergasted by this topic. I understand that in working with the general public there's a chance that some patients may take issue with a doctor with tattoos, but there are patients who refuse to be seen by people of all skin colors, think all women in a hospital are nurses, etc. I don't really see the point of this kind of close-mindedness when it comes to future colleagues. Judge someone by the work they do, not by how they choose to adorn their skin. I'm not an attending and do have several (nonvisible under both white coat and scrubs, although with scrubs you can see them a bit) tattoos so I understand that I'm biased and also don't have much power in this debate yet. Honestly if I had a bias for heart surgeons I would probably swing *toward* the person with tattoos--they likely have some personality.

 

[Kaustikos]

We need a double blind study to finally determine the ramifications. I will contact the NIH to see if I can get funding.

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[Señor S]

Generally I think those in their 40s and older will judge you negatively for it, and those in their 30s and younger won't care much. I think surgery attendings as a group would take an especially dim view of visible tattoos, based on my experience with them (the attendings I mean, not the tattoos).

Personally, I'd prefer my surgeon didn't have any tattoos, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker.

 

[WingedOx]

You could have the same debate about facial scruff, excessive eye makeup, etc...

/The long-time PD at the program down the street is known to have a has a full sleeve.

 

[Winged Scapula]

The middle aged man who handed me my drink at McDonald's this morning had a neck tat.

I couldn't help but wonder if his career aspirations were somewhat dimmed by his poorly chosen artwork.

 

[WingedOx]

The middle aged man who handed me my drink at McDonald's this morning had a neck tat.

I couldn't help but wonder if his career aspirations were somewhat dimmed by his poorly chosen artwork.

I'm guessing you may want to flip the chicken and the egg there.

 

[Law2Doc]

You could have the same debate about facial scruff, excessive eye makeup, etc...

If you show up to your surgery rotation with facial scruff and excessive eye makeup I bet you would not make a great first impression either. 🙂 Like it or not this is a profession where you are frequently and significantly subjectively evaluated, and you are going to have an uphill battle if your ink, makeup, scruff, outfit or other aspects of look regarded as a personal choice don't exude confidence and professionalism. nobody will care how well you can do the job if they already judged you as you walked in the door. Not fair, I know, but this is real life.

 

[Law2Doc]

Soon the number of people with tattoos will outweigh those without...

Only if they are eating the profits at the McDonalds mentioned above. Unless you meant "outnumber"...

 

[WingedOx]

If you show up to your surgery rotation with facial scruff and excessive eye makeup I bet you would not make a great first impression either. 🙂 Like it or not this is a profession where you are frequently and significantly subjectively evaluated, and you are going to have an uphill battle if your ink, makeup, scruff, outfit or other aspects of look regarded as a personal choice don't exude confidence and professionalism. nobody will care how well you can do the job if they already judged you as you walked in the door. Not fair, I know, but this is real life.

...and every day I thank my local deity that I'm not a trainee anymore.

I semi-seriously say "Unprofessionalism" is by definition: Any action, real or perceived, that for any reason, a person above you on the totem pole does not like."

 

[Law2Doc]

...and every day I thank my local deity not to be in training anymore.

I semi-seriously say "Unprofessionalism" is by definition: Any action, real or perceived, that for any reason, a person above you on the totem pole does not like."

Even as an attending you have bosses, unless you are self employed. And even then (especially then) patient perspective matters. Get that visible tattoo as a retirement present to yourself if you don't want it to be a liability.

 

[NontradCA]

The middle aged man who handed me my drink at McDonald's this morning had a neck tat.

I couldn't help but wonder if his career aspirations were somewhat dimmed by his poorly chosen artwork.

By this logic, I should be an astronaut.

 

[Law2Doc]

I don't really get the fuss. Between torso, back, upper legs, even calfs there a ton of canvas to work with that won't impact your career. Leave the arms, head and neck alone and you can cover the rest of yourself with screaming skulls and daggers and cartoon characters and nobody will be the wiser unless you change in front of them or see them at the pool.

 

[fancymylotus]

I don't really get the fuss. Between torso, back, upper legs, even calfs there a ton of canvas to work with that won't impact your career. Leave the arms, head and neck alone and you can cover the rest of yourself with screaming skulls and daggers and cartoon characters and nobody will be the wiser unless you change in front of them or see them at the pool.

Can I like this fifteen times and/or love it? Bc I do.😍

 

[ChrisMack390]

which is why so many people are dumbfounded when they hit a situation when it does in fact matter that much. It's not a question of if it should...it does

Well I guess janitor school it is. OH well, peace SDN.

 

[fancymylotus]

Even as an attending you have bosses, unless you are self employed. And even then (especially then) patient perspective matters. Get that visible tattoo as a retirement present to yourself if you don't want it to be a liability.

I agree. I strongly feel that the first impression that some of my patients would have of me if I had visible tattoos would maybe not be so favorable vs if I didnt. Especially because I look young(without any makeup)....*especially* because some of the areas we work in are super stuck up/snobby.

Look, its your own body, do whatever the **** you want. But dont play naive when it comes to things like this. I dont think tattoos are stupid. I think people who think that they may not be unfavorably judged for having them are *being* stupid.

Also. People get tattoos for sentimental reasons. People get tattoos for covering things they dont want to talk about. I get it. But like..when you have Sailor Moon and Wario tattooed down your neck, its only for attention, and that....that I cannot respect.

 

[styphon]

My upper body is almost completely covered in tattoos - including more visible areas such as my lower neck and both of my forearms. I can cover them with a long sleeved dress shirt with a tie. During medical school/residency they were covered mostly by those dress shirts/white coats but exposed when I wear scrubs.

In the past I have heard both negative and positive reactions from attendings and patients. At one point during residency I was "reported" to the hospital committee, but nothing came of it as I was not employed by the hospital itself.

Now as an attending I could care less. If someone doesn't want to see me because I have tattoos that is more than fine by me.

 

[Law2Doc]

My upper body is almost completely covered in tattoos - including more visible areas such as my lower neck and both of my forearms. I can cover them with a long sleeved dress shirt with a tie. During medical school/residency they were covered mostly by those dress shirts/white coats but exposed when I wear scrubs.

In the past I have heard both negative and positive reactions from attendings and patients. At one point during residency I was "reported" to the hospital committee, but nothing came of it as I was not employed by the hospital itself.

Now as an attending I could care less. If someone doesn't want to see me because I have tattoos that is more than fine by me.

Sure, but again you'll never know what you lost out on if you hadn't made the first impressions you made. You may be happy where you are, or "could care less", and that's great, but there's always something better or some major opportunity you'll never really know if you missed out on. And you won't know if in a decade you'll still value your ink as much as your career options.

 

[WingedOx]

Sure, but again you'll never know what you lost out on if you hadn't made the first impressions you made. You may be happy where you are, or "could care less", and that's great, but there's always something better or some major opportunity you'll never really know if you missed out on. And you won't know if in a decade you'll still value your ink as much as your career options.

That's true. In a parallel universe I dropped my usual scruff and because of my handsome, organized, non-schlubby looks got an offer with a lucrative, elite private practice. Of course it turned out said practice was actually a giant ponzi scheme and I was their fall guy. My parallel universe self is now sitting in federal prison wishing he'd never given up shaving once every two weeks.

 

[Law2Doc]

That's true. In a parallel universe I dropped my usual scruff and because of my handsome organized, non-schlubby, looks got an offer with a lucrative, elite private practice. Of course it turned out said practice was actually a giant ponzi scheme and I was their fall guy. My parallel universe self is now sitting in federal prison wishing he'd never given up his baseball chin.

There are infinite parallel universes. In many of them the version of you with the face tattoo is the one in federal prison.

 

[doc05]

If it were you, will you let a surgeon with tattoo do heart surgery on you?

have you ever met a heart surgeon?

 

[Kaustikos]

I'm gonna get a tattoo that says professional on my forehead and tramp stamp. That can't be unprofessional, right?

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[Stagg737]

Sure, but again you'll never know what you lost out on if you hadn't made the first impressions you made. You may be happy where you are, or "could care less", and that's great, but there's always something better or some major opportunity you'll never really know if you missed out on. And you won't know if in a decade you'll still value your ink as much as your career options.

You can always make up what if situations for anything. What if I had decided to go to one of the 'elite' undergrad schools I was accepted to like Wash U or Michigan instead of a small school no one has heard of outside of the state? I probably could have gotten into med school straight out of college. What if I had just gone to Podiatry school after college instead of taking several gap years before going to med school? I could be treating patients and making 6 figures by now. What if I had gone to the state school that offered me almost a full ride? I might be dead as the biology class I would have taken was part of a mass school shooting.

But none of those things happened, and I have no regrets about any of those choices because I'm both happy and satisfied with the decisions I've made and with my current life. In terms of tattoos, I'll agree that going out and permanently marking your body because you just so happened to feel like getting some ink that day is a dumb decision. However, there are plenty of people out there with tattoos that mean more than some lost career opportunity and who understand the potential consequences having them. I think it's somewhat narrow-minded to only consider what career opportunities might be lost from getting a tattoo and not consider the opportunity gained in terms personal meaning or self-expression. Besides, you can't really know if you'll value your career options in the future either, so I don't really that's really a significant point.

 

[Law2Doc]

You can always make up what if situations for anything. What if I had decided to go to one of the 'elite' undergrad schools I was accepted to like Wash U or Michigan instead of a small school no one has heard of outside of the state? I probably could have gotten into med school straight out of college. What if I had just gone to Podiatry school after college instead of taking several gap years before going to med school? I could be treating patients and making 6 figures by now. What if I had gone to the state school that offered me almost a full ride? I might be dead as the biology class I would have taken was part of a mass school shooting.

But none of those things happened, and I have no regrets about any of those choices because I'm both happy and satisfied with the decisions I've made and with my current life. In terms of tattoos, I'll agree that going out and permanently marking your body because you just so happened to feel like getting some ink that day is a dumb decision. However, there are plenty of people out there with tattoos that mean more than some lost career opportunity and who understand the potential consequences having them. I think it's somewhat narrow-minded to only consider what career opportunities might be lost from getting a tattoo and not consider the opportunity gained in terms personal meaning or self-expression. Besides, you can't really know if you'll value your career options in the future either, so I don't really that's really a significant point.

But there are two "truths" i really think you can't ignore:
(1) people judge, and
(2) you will likely mature and value things differently years from now.

Within that paradigm you have to be a bit careful not to close doors for yourself today that you may want open tomorrow. Saying I'm fine with it isn't a good answer because you aren't speaking for the older, maybe wiser you.

 

[Danbo1957]

Appearance matters. So does hygiene. Especially to patients. I implemented at my residency no make up, no jewelry, hair must be short or pulled back in a high ponytail or braid. Many interns bitched loudly at first, then after the objectors were not assigned daily duties, the objections stopped. Not one of my residents has a visible tattoo.

 

[link2swim06]

Appearance matters. So does hygiene. Especially to patients. I implemented at my residency no make up, no jewelry, short hair or hair pulled back in a high ponytail or braid. Many interns bitched loudly at first, then after the objectors were not assigned daily duties, the objections stopped. Not one of my residents has a visible tattoo.

Short hair? You can't get a haircut in your residency?



At the end of the day I see attendings with tattoos, even strange colored hair styles. As a resident I guess fly under the radar and follow whatever your boss (PD) wants if you want to make it through...then find a job where you can practice in align with what you find reasonable.

And to the OP...sure I'd let a surgeon with a tattoo operate. One of the leaders in my residency and region in a certain specialty has a ton of tattoos. Although I am sure patients do judge him negatively for it.

 

[BamaNicole]

It creates a first impression. You don't want to go through life overcoming bad first impressions.

totally understandable but at the same time people can change as they age and grow.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

I have full sleeves. Have had them for years. As L2D said, yes people judge, yes you might miss out on opportunities, yes you might regret them. But saying what-if on everything I do isn't a life I want to live. I could die tomorrow, I could get my dream job and hate it. I don't really care if I miss out on a good opportunity, because there is probably another good opportunity that will present itself. The benefit of being a doctor is that most times there are tons of opportunities.

For every doctor or patient that dislikes my tattoos, there is another that doesn't care or even likes them. Yes people will judge me as a ***** and say they don't want me as their doctor. But I have also heard "i feel bad not telling the doctor the truth, but you seem like you can understand my life." I also come from a blue collar background so I have worked the same jobs some of these people have worked.

Will I regret my tattoos? Maybe. I haven't in 8 years for a second, and I am still at the point where I see my arms in the mirror and am proud of them. I love the feeling of people seeing me and then hearing that i am a med student and giving me the "oh man, i never would have guessed." I also love the feeling when people are all "oh man, you are a med student with sleeves? that's freakin cool!" So if I regret them, it won't be any time soon.

So in short, if you love tattoos but you care what people think, don't get them. If you would rather work in a hospital doing world changing research, don't get a tattoo. If you want a tattoo whenever you are drunk and say "i will get it on my forearm, YOLO!" don't get one. But if you don't really care and just want a position with people who appreciate who you are and are realistic that you will likely have to keep them covered, ink up. I've never had an issue.

Full disclosure, I am applying to peds where the patients definitely don't care (and kids LOVE tattoos as mine are pretty colorful), the parents are my age (and likely accepting of tattoos), and I am a big fatass so the people are probably more put-off by that. I also don't have any one my hands, neck, face, or collar areas and I keep them covered up all the time (except during my surgery rotation but I would keep my white coat on when everyone else wasn't wearing one and take it off outside the OR).

 

[Kaustikos]

But there are two "truths" i really think you can't ignore:
(1) people judge, and
(2) you will likely mature and value things differently years from now.

Within that paradigm you have to be a bit careful not to close doors for yourself today that you may want open tomorrow. Saying I'm fine with it isn't a good answer because you aren't speaking for the older, maybe wiser you.

Agreed about number one. I guess people don't realize the ramifications of a bad impression with "one attending". Because that one attending is friends with other people. You're in an uphill climb from there. Believe me, I know from personal experience.
Get a tattoo but be smart about it.

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