Physician's pay increased by ACA?

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Obamacare is a steaming pile of **** but you're being ridiculous.
ElCapone is prone to saying grossly inaccurate things regarding politics (e.g., the use of "Communists" and "central planning" above), so it's okay.

On that note, no one who hasn't read Marx has any right to discuss what communism is. You shouldn't use terms you don't understand, though that's what this entire thread seems to be about, unfortunately.
 
Maintaining a minimum level of competency?! Are you insane?
Yes, minimum level. Contrary to popular belief, studying is not all that hard compared to the usual route of graduating college and job hunting every two or so years for a good part of one's mid and late twenties.
 
Yes, minimum level. Contrary to popular belief, studying is not all that hard compared to the usual route of graduating college and job hunting every two or so years for a good part of one's mid and late twenties.

It's nice to hear that you like being mediocre, but most people don't want to have a "minimum level" of competency. Rather, they want to be competent, and, dare I say, actually good.
 
A minimum level of competence for doctors would be the equivalent of being stellar in just about any other field.
 
Maintaining a minimum level of competency?! Are you insane?

I never said the bar for competency was low. I'm talking about adhering to standard practices and being professionally competent. You don't have to be an amazing physician to pull down $200k/year. You have to be an amazing engineer to pull down $200k/year.
 
Obamacare is a steaming pile of **** but you're being ridiculous.

Brighter minds rethinking medicine, lol. Name any other career where you're nearly guaranteed $200k/year for maintaining a minimum level of competency. Memorizing biology facts at State U and taking standardized tests doesn't translate into running a successful business or landing a biglaw job. Investment banking jobs require Ivy league pedigree, ridiculous connections, and/or incredible luck.

I know this is your schtick and everything, but when someone says that people might start rethinking going to med school, it's not always because they think anyone can make more money in another field. There are considerations to making career decisions other than pure income levels.
 
It's nice to hear that you like being mediocre, but most people don't want to have a "minimum level" of competency. Rather, they want to be competent, and, dare I say, actually good.
Straw man. Only minimum competency is required to pull in decent income as a doc. That's the topic of discussion.

Whether or not I like to be such a mediocre doc is a different story (I don't).
 
Yes, minimum level. Contrary to popular belief, studying is not all that hard compared to the usual route of graduating college and job hunting every two or so years for a good part of one's mid and late twenties.

How many years of medical training have you gone through again?
 
I know this is your schtick and everything, but when someone says that people might start rethinking going to med school, it's not always because they think anyone can make more money in another field. There are considerations to making career decisions other than pure income levels.

If they're not concerned with money in other fields, then why would they be concerned with money in medicine? It's not like physician salaries are set to be cut 200% or something ridiculous.
 
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Obamacare is a steaming pile of **** but you're being ridiculous.

Brighter minds rethinking medicine, lol. Name any other career where you're nearly guaranteed $200k/year for maintaining a minimum level of competency. Memorizing biology facts at State U and taking standardized tests doesn't translate into running a successful business or landing a biglaw job. Investment banking jobs require Ivy league pedigree, ridiculous connections, and/or incredible luck.

No they don't. And there's a lot more to finance than just IB.

ElCapone is prone to saying grossly inaccurate things regarding politics (e.g., the use of "Communists" and "central planning" above), so it's okay.

On that note, no one who hasn't read Marx has any right to discuss what communism is. You shouldn't use terms you don't understand, though that's what this entire thread seems to be about, unfortunately.

You're a policy wonk and you don't understand what top down control is?

Are you blightly unaware of the insane bureaucratic regulations that Medicare dumps on doctors?

Are you aware of the insane overhead costs of the coders and not to mention the Medicare RAC "bounty hunters"?

Do you remember the idiotic EMR mandate in which it was claimed that sharing of data between doctors and hospitals would make up for the billions spent on implementation, but thanks to insider lobbying the government never bothered to ensure that different systems would be interoperable? Net result? Epic and other big companies made billions while you now get even worse healthcare since your doctors have to spend more time with their documenting things on their EMRs, which were never built to be user friendly, and still have to use fax machines for sending results from one provider to another (HIPAA also has contributed to this problem).

Also, be sure to enjoy your 3rd rate healthcare as your doctor now spends even more time (in addition to dealing with the idiotic layout of EMR systems) checkmarking idiotic boxes and filling out random fields as a result of Medicare's idiotic Meaningful Use rules, which were made by a bunch of bureaucrats who have never practiced medicine in their entire lives.

And don't forget that overhead costs for doctors have shot up to 50-60% in order to comply with these *****ic laws vs much much lower just a few decades ago.

If that's not "top down control" I don't know what is.

And you should probably toss your Ivy League degree in the trash if you haven't even learned this much while you were in school. Because when you open your mouth in real life and start talking about healthcare people are going to start wondering how the heck someone with an Ivy League education doesn't know jack about the practice of medicine today.
 
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ElCapone is prone to saying grossly inaccurate things regarding politics (e.g., the use of "Communists" and "central planning" above), so it's okay.

On that note, no one who hasn't read Marx has any right to discuss what communism is. You shouldn't use terms you don't understand, though that's what this entire thread seems to be about, unfortunately.

The arrogance you have displayed in this thread is leaking from my computer screen. So much so, I am actually not even sure if you are being sincere or just like messing with people.
 
No they don't. And there's a lot more to finance than just IB.

Yes they do, unless you think working 80 hours a week at some ****ty regional ibank doing M&A on muffler shops for $50k/year with a $10k bonus is a good deal.

What other finance jobs, besides ibanking, offer a reasonable chance of making doctor money?
 
The arrogance you have displayed in this thread is leaking from my computer screen. So much so, I am actually not even sure if you are being sincere or just like messing with people.
You disagree with my contention that one should not use terms one does not understand fully (thus resulting in silly arguments)? I've never read Marx seriously (or any other literature on communism) and do not have a full understanding of what communism is. Thus, I do not accuse people of being Communists, as ElCapone is doing. I am only asking that he not as well.

WRT to the arrogant part, I think the real arrogance is demonstrated quite nicely here:
And you should probably toss your Ivy League degree in the trash if you haven't even learned this much while you were in school. Because when you open your mouth in real life and start talking about healthcare people are going to start wondering how the heck someone with an Ivy League education doesn't know jack about the practice of medicine today.
That's real arrogance. All hail ElCapone, omniscient expert of "practice of medicine today"!

I thought I was cocky, but damn, boy, you really took the cake on this one. :bow:
 
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[insert off-topic rant and irrelevant ad hominem attacks on Ivy pedigree]
I don't respond to irrelevant and tangential arguments, sorry. I called you out for not understanding what communism is. Nothing you wrote demonstrated any qualification to the heavy accusation that our government is run by Communists, and thus you have accomplished nothing to change my mind (i.e., your argument does not apply). Also, you know a "counterargument" is crap when personal attacks are employed.
 
Straw man. Only minimum competency is required to pull in decent income as a doc. That's the topic of discussion.

Whether or not I like to be such a mediocre doc is a different story (I don't).

Speaking of making assertions with no experience to back them up.....

Too many. :naughty:

:eyebrow:
 
A minimum level of competence for doctors would be the equivalent of being stellar in just about any other field.

No
You disagree with my contention that one should not use terms one does not understand fully (thus resulting in silly arguments)? I've never read Marx seriously (or any other literature on communism) and do not have a full understanding of what communism is. Thus, I do not accuse people of being Communists, as ElCapone is doing. I am only asking that he not as well.

WRT to the arrogant part, I think the real arrogance is demonstrated quite nicely here:

That's real arrogance. All hail ElCapone, omniscient expert of "practice of medicine today"!

I thought I was cocky, but damn, boy, you really took the cake on this one. :bow:

Pol Sci major at a Ivy League and you seriously don't even understand statism and statist politician tactics? I'm basing my view of Obama and DC's tactics off what I have seen in another country (which I shall not name to preserve my identity) and on what happened in Africa in the 1970s in which statist governments penalized individual accomplishment by labeling it as antithetical to the system.

First, they set up scapegoats and target professions for being "too greedy" at the expense of the collective whole to justify their statist schemes:

Here's the Big O at work:



and a few months later again



Here's the Context of both of those videos:

NewsBusters said:
The following day, the American College of Surgeons issued a statement harshly rebuking the President's comments, but America's media almost completely ignored it (h/t Jamie Colby):

The American College of Surgeons is deeply disturbed over the uninformed public comments President Obama continues to make about the high-quality care provided by surgeons in the United States. When the President makes statements that are incorrect or not based in fact, we think he does a disservice to the American people at a time when they want clear, understandable facts about health care reform. We want to set the record straight.

Yesterday during a town hall meeting, President Obama got his facts completely wrong. He stated that a surgeon gets paid $50,000 for a leg amputation when, in fact, Medicare pays a surgeon between $740 and $1,140 for a leg amputation. This payment also includes the evaluation of the patient on the day of the operation plus patient follow-up care that is provided for 90 days after the operation. Private insurers pay some variation of the Medicare reimbursement for this service.

Three weeks ago, the President suggested that a surgeon's decision to remove a child's tonsils is based on the desire to make a lot of money. That remark was ill-informed and dangerous, and we were dismayed by this characterization of the work surgeons do. Surgeons make decisions about recommending operations based on what's right for the patient.

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...-50k-amputation-claim-media-mum#ixzz2kPaUQx5e

Next, their cronies line up to receive oodles of cash from the government. Who won from Obamacare? The Insurance, EMR, and Hospital lobbies. Who lost? Doctors.

Don't think for a second that Obama or Katherine Sibelius at HHS even care about the effects of Obamacare - they have their own federal health plans and you can bet that Obama is going to have a very lucrative post-Presidency career despite achieving nothing at all during his 2 terms.
 
Man, you must suck at those "answer this question and only this question" type of evaluations, huh?

You still have not addressed the communism part I am disagreeing with. Like I said before, this is what I'm taking issue with, and your attempts to diverge the discussion to tangentially related topics are unnecessary and a waste of everyone's time. ICYDK, statism is not communism. Government is pretty big in the US, I'll give you that. It is not communism.

Also, stop with the whole "omg you go to an Ivy and are so stupid!!" retorts. It makes you sound like a whiny little bitch because you can't come up with a better ad hominem attack, which is kinda sad because it's getting hackneyed as hell. If you want to insult me, stop being lazy and come up with something better than pathetic **** like that. If you wanna come at me, make it good and actually worth my time/entertaining.
 
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You should probably both just use the "ignore" function at this point. Save yourselves a lot of pointless internet rage.
 
You should probably both just use the "ignore" function at this point. Save yourselves a lot of pointless internet rage.

Unnecessary. This debate is way more interesting and informative than a typical premed rage.
 
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