Physics-Calc/non Calc Based

[dapmp91]

Please tell me the pros and cons of taking either Calc based physics or non calc based physics and which one helps more for the MCAT

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[americanpierg]

Please tell me the pros and cons of taking either Calc based physics or non calc based physics and which one helps more for the MCAT

calc based is owns algebra based. who needs to work out the stuff manually when u can use shortcuts

 

[Philo]

Please tell me the pros and cons of taking either Calc based physics or non calc based physics and which one helps more for the MCAT

If you take a physics course that is not calc-based, then you will be simply be given the formulas to solve the problems. If you take a calc-based physics course, then you will be learn how to derive the formulas (using calculus) to solve the problems. I suggest that you take the calc-based physics course if you are already taking calculus. It is not much harder and it gives you a clearer understanding of the principles and concepts of physics. In addition, you are able to use calculus for the purpose it was discovered (invented?) for.

 

[dbhvt]

Please tell me the pros and cons of taking either Calc based physics or non calc based physics and which one helps more for the MCAT

In my experience profs actually care about teaching the calc based physics class. For the non-calc physics they just care about making life difficult for all the premeds.

 

[Anastasis]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=225926&highlight=calc+based+physics

 

[SwineLake98]

If you took and understood Calc II, go for the calc-based. Understanding how to manipulate things to get an anwer is far more valuable than memorizing equations in my opinion.

 

[Anastasis]

If you took and understood Calc II, go for the calc-based. Understanding how to manipulate things to get an anwer is far more valuable than memorizing equations in my opinion.

You took my avatar!!

 

[SwineLake98]

You took my avatar!!

I think we just had the same brilliant idea. I definitely did a Google image search while watching House

 

[SuziQ]

we were required to take calc-based! it was hard, in my opinion, because most of us haven't had calc since freshman year and we take physics as juniors....just something to consider

 

[CMismo]

Please tell me the pros and cons of taking either Calc based physics or non calc based physics and which one helps more for the MCAT

I didn't even take physics II before takinig the MCAT and got a very decent score on that section (partially because I love inorganic chemistry!). The bottom line, you are not allowed a calculator so really you won't have any hard equations anyway. So, it is more important that you understand the common sense theory behind each physics area than the actual math behind it. Non-calc based physics focuses more on the theory rather than the math....that is a good thing!!

 

[SwineLake98]

we were required to take calc-based! it was hard, in my opinion, because most of us haven't had calc since freshman year and we take physics as juniors....just something to consider

What was your major? I think for anyone who has to take P-chem calc-based physics should be required, personally. Those of us that did the best in that class were the ones with the strongest math background.

 

[Anastasis]

I think we just had the same brilliant idea. I definitely did a Google image search while watching House

Me too - I think I'm actually going to buy that sign.

 

[Dr.Dr.]

Personally, I took non-calculus based physics and it helped a lot for the MCAT. The MCAT physics is non-calculus based, so you will be doing the same problems with the same formulas in a non-calculus based course. Tailor your learning for the test if that is what's important to you! If it's important to you to have a "grander understanding" for knowledge's sake, bravo, do the calc course.

But, if you have no interest in basic science and are never planning to use physics again after the MCAT, make your life easy and take the regular physics course. If you "could" succeed in a calc based course (which will most likely have a bunch of engineers in it and a difficult curve) you will probably OWN the non-calc course and put some major padding into your GPA.

I think the only Med School that requires Calc based physics is the HST program at Harvard.

 

[colt]

Personally, I took non-calculus based physics and it helped a lot for the MCAT. The MCAT physics is non-calculus based, so you will be doing the same problems with the same formulas in a non-calculus based course. Tailor your learning for the test if that is what's important to you! If it's important to you to have a "grander understanding" for knowledge's sake, bravo, do the calc course.

But, if you have no interest in basic science and are never planning to use physics again after the MCAT, make your life easy and take the regular physics course. If you "could" succeed in a calc based course (which will most likely have a bunch of engineers in it and a difficult curve) you will probably OWN the non-calc course and put some major padding into your GPA.

I think the only Med School that requires Calc based physics is the HST program at Harvard.

I agree 100%. It's like telling a non-science major, "General biology only skims the surface...if you want to fully understand biology, you'll need to take genetics, micro, diversity, evolution etc"

 

[_ian]

I agree 100%. It's like telling a non-science major, "General biology only skims the surface...if you want to fully understand biology, you'll need to take genetics, micro, diversity, evolution etc"

Not really.

I'm sure this is variable by school, but these are my own thoughts based on my own university. Perhaps some of you will have amazing teachers in the algebra-based courses, but the fact of the matter is your classmates in algebra-based physics are probably neither interested in nor particularly good at solving physics problems, so the teachers must place a limit on the depth of the material which they teach. Material will go up to what the MCAT expects of you, but not beyond.

Many students just don't understand the concepts like they should; they solve problems by writing down all the given variables and hunting through their mental catalogue of equations for one that will fit to find the unknown.

The math is not the difficult part of a calc-based physics course; the difficulty is in being forced to truly understand the concepts. It's not because of the fact that calculus is thrown into the mix! You'll never do anything more complicated than chain rule. It's because the course is filled with people who care about physics, so the questions posed to you require you to pay attention and fully understand concepts. Problems are nearly universally more difficult than equivalent problems in the algebra-based course.

Here's the thing: when you take a course beyond the scope of what you "need to know," the material that you "need to know" becomes infinitely easier to handle when you go back to it. I have friends who complain about their physics tests, but I can get near perfect scores on them when I'm handed a blank copy after they get them back. It certainly isn't because I'm naturally great at physics... quite the contrary, physics is far and away my weakest subject, despite the fact that math is one of my strongest.

The way I see it, if you consider yourself intelligent enough and motivated enough to be a candidate for medical school, you can handle calc-based physics without putting a dent in your GPA... and the difficulty will benefit you when the MCAT comes around.

 

[cobalt31]

at my school, "calc-based physics" doesnt really have all that much calculus -- it is simply harder than the non-calc based physics. I think they just used calculus to derive equations in lecture, and it comes up a few times on a test, but not that frequently. I was actually somewhat disappointed at the lack of actual calculus in my physics classes

 

[americanpierg]

If you took and understood Calc II, go for the calc-based. Understanding how to manipulate things to get an anwer is far more valuable than memorizing equations in my opinion.

what r u talking about, 70% of calculus 2 has nothing to do with physics, the only relavent part was the trig and inverse trig parts if u apply it to physics involving optics, the rest of calc 2 dealing with series is utterly worthless. if u took and understood calc I, go for calc based physics. i find calc to be much easier and less stupid mistake prone than algebra anyways

 

[sga814]

From my experience at Northwestern-

Non-calc physics= all pre-meds who will bite your head off if it means a better grade

Calc physics= more engineers than pre-meds, therefore "less competitive", therefore, easier to get a better grade... plus- easier to understand the physics.

 

[MrDreamWeaver]

^ the most above is correct.

I think 90% of my class is pre-med and the other 10% is pre-dental.

It's pretty disgusting how some of these people act when the tests are given back. "WHAT DID YOU GET?!? WTF??!?! HOW YOU GET THAT????"

I actually have to hide my ****en paper so the douche-bag behind me doesn't look over my shoulder and blab his mouth. God.

LOL Anyway, algebra-base emphasizes on the theory quite a bit, which is apparently good for the MCAT.

realize that nobody (i think?) has taken both calc-based and algebra-based, so ... how can they tell u which i sbetter?

 

[Dave_D]

One word of warning to you though. Some schools have more than 2 versions of physics I. For example Boston U has 4.(Yes, I took the hardest one as an undergrad back in 89. Not only did it have calc in it, it was geared for students who expected to go to grad school for physics. Yes, it was super hard, the only course I've ever taken that was more difficult was French.)

 

[colt]

Physics for poets is the most difficult.

 

[EagerToBeMD]

Here's something I hope someone can answer. At my school, the non-calc based General Physics is a 100 level course. It sounds like it's the exact same as the 200 level courses though as in it covers the same material, but it's just 100 level. The calc-based Physics for engineering students is a higher level, but I've already taken non-calc based. But won't med schools see the number and will they be biased against it since it's 100 level instead of 200 level the way it is at most other colleges? I hope not to hear I have to take another Physics sequence because 100 level isn't hard enough or something, but if that's really the case be honest with me because I want to make my app as competitive as possible for admission.

 

[_ian]

Here's something I hope someone can answer. At my school, the non-calc based General Physics is a 100 level course. It sounds like it's the exact same as the 200 level courses though as in it covers the same material, but it's just 100 level. The calc-based Physics for engineering students is a higher level, but I've already taken non-calc based. But won't med schools see the number and will they be biased against it since it's 100 level instead of 200 level the way it is at most other colleges? I hope not to hear I have to take another Physics sequence because 100 level isn't hard enough or something, but if that's really the case be honest with me because I want to make my app as competitive as possible for admission.

I wouldn't worry about it; if med schools really wanted to see calculus-based physics, then they'd require it. Most of us recommend you take the calc-based course, but if you've already started the algebra-based sequence, you might as well just finish it... I doubt I could argue that the advantages are great enough to rationalize adding in an extra term.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Please tell me the pros and cons of taking either Calc based physics or non calc based physics and which one helps more for the MCAT

Take NON-calc based:

1. There is no calculus on the MCAT

2. There is no calculus in medical school

3. You will get a better grade, since it is easier

4. The non-calc based is actually often known as "premed physics"

 

[SuziQ]

What was your major? I think for anyone who has to take P-chem calc-based physics should be required, personally. Those of us that did the best in that class were the ones with the strongest math background.

Child Development...haha definitely no need for calc-based physics there! It's just a random rule of our premed curriculum...calc-based physics is a must...I detested it!

 

[EagerToBeMD]

I wouldn't worry about it; if med schools really wanted to see calculus-based physics, then they'd require it. Most of us recommend you take the calc-based course, but if you've already started the algebra-based sequence, you might as well just finish it... I doubt I could argue that the advantages are great enough to rationalize adding in an extra term.

Yeah but I was arguing more about the number than about calc and non-calc. Isn't a 100 level class easier than 200 level? My Physics was a 100 level class, but it was called General Physics I. Most universities don't have any 100 level Physics classes.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Yeah but I was arguing more about the number than about calc and non-calc. Isn't a 100 level class easier than 200 level? My Physics was a 100 level class, but it was called General Physics I. Most universities don't have any 100 level Physics classes.

There is a 1 semester 1000 level physics class at my school for non-science majors. This does not count as pre-med physics.

There is a 2 semester 1000 level physics class at my school for pre-med students.

There is a 2 semester 2000 level calc-based physics class at my school for engineering, chem., and physics major.

 

[EagerToBeMD]

Oh so yours is 1000 level too? Mine only has two classes. The one I want to take is non calc based and it's for non-science majors. The other is for engineering majors. We don't have a pre-med dept. at my school so there is no pre-med physics, but I was told to take the non calc one, which sounds similar to the physics that others are taking. It's a two-semester course. Gen Physics I and Gen Physics II. I was only worried because it's 100 level and not 200 level, but you obviously got in with 100 level so it must be acceptable at some schools anyway.

 

[_ian]

Yeah but I was arguing more about the number than about calc and non-calc. Isn't a 100 level class easier than 200 level? My Physics was a 100 level class, but it was called General Physics I. Most universities don't have any 100 level Physics classes.

Don't worry about numbers; each numbering system is unique to the university it's at, and sometimes gets a bit screwy. Both the first-term physics classes at UMich are 100-level, while the second-term class is either 100-level (algebra) or 200-level (calculus). One stats course is incredibly easy and freshmen non-science majors take it regularly, but it's listed as a 300-level. Some of the easiest classes you'll ever take will be 400-level in your senior year. In short, don't worry about it.

 

[FenderHM]

non-calc physics, 12 P.S. mcat...guess it worked for me..., tho i'm not having much luck w/ med school admissions, but thats another issue