Physics question!

[kiddynamite914]

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Do you guys recommend Calc based physics or the regular physics (algebra based)? The calc based physics at my school can get very competitive and often pre meds end up receiving grades they don't like. On the other hand, the algebra based physics is not too harsh and from students who have taken it. they said it was more than sufficient in getting them ready for the MCAT's. Do you guys recommend one over the other?

 

[JBDoctor35]

Take the course that you will most likely do better in. For your situation it sounds like the algebra based physics will be better. The MCAT has no calculus based physics on it. It's all algebra based. In summary, take the one you will succeed in! Good luck!

 

[Lawpy]

Do you guys recommend Calc based physics or the regular physics (algebra based)? The calc based physics at my school can get very competitive and often pre meds end up receiving grades they don't like. On the other hand, the algebra based physics is not too harsh and from students who have taken it. they said it was more than sufficient in getting them ready for the MCAT's. Do you guys recommend one over the other?

You can only learn concepts from calculus-based physics for obvious reasons. The rest is up to you.

 

[puglet]

Pro tip: It's helpful to do a search. Almost the same question has been answered as recently as yesterday.

I'm copypasta-ing the response I made in the other thread:

Medical schools don't care what type of physics you take. My recommendation would be to take whichever one you will do better in, which sounds like it's algebra-based Physics in your case.

 

[wegotthis14]

You don't need calculus to solve MCAT level physics problems.

 

[deleted577188]

There are several threads on this. Do the one that you know you can get A's in. Algebra is sufficient for the MCAT. Remember, you wanna be a doctor not a physicist.

 

[cactus8910]

You can only learn concepts from calculus-based physics for obvious reasons.

Says someone who I assume hasn't taken algebra-based physics...
I felt I had a pretty solid understanding of physics concepts from my algebra-based class.

 

[aminovitch]

I would follow grade and professor. Both of them are good enough for the MCAT.

In my U, the calc based prof was terrible (she knows her stuff but she was a newbie who does not know how to teach). I ended up with an A in both semesters but I suffered and did not learn much. 🙁 . For the MCAT, I had to watch lectures online.
The algebra prof on the other hand is very good. I took the calc based because my state university requires calc based physics. 🙁

 

[Cawolf]

Says someone who I assume hasn't taken algebra-based physics...
I felt I had a pretty solid understanding of physics concepts from my algebra-based class.

For our purposes, yes, algebra-based physics can teach many concepts and is more than adequate.

My favorite part of physics was understanding why those equations (that I assume were just given in algebra-based?) existed. You didn't really need to memorize any formulas if you could derive them.

The best example is the kinematic equations. They can be given and used to solve projectile problems, but the result is almost meaningless unless you know why those formulas exist. It is much more enlightening to take the second derivative of a constant acceleration to solve the problems. Sure the answer is the same, but there is much more meaning behind it when solved using calculus.

 

[Lawpy]

Says someone who I assume hasn't taken algebra-based physics...
I felt I had a pretty solid understanding of physics concepts from my algebra-based class.

Ah damn. I got disowned by my second favorite penguin 😢😢😢😢

Actually i took algebra-based physics as a sophomore in high school because of the district policy. I learned nothing and did pretty normal on stuff. I only began to learn physics by taking calculus-based AP Physics C dual sequence in senior year. I failed in tests, but hey, i learned a lot about physics and did pretty well when i took the upper levels in college.

Anecdotes aside, you can't learn physics by plugging numbers into formulas. And besides, your knowledge of vectors is deeply limited, because you don't learn dot and cross products in algebra-based physics (where do you think the right-hand rule comes from?)

I'm happy to discuss this matter separately

 

[puglet]

Says someone who I assume hasn't taken algebra-based physics...
I felt I had a pretty solid understanding of physics concepts from my algebra-based class.

Ah damn. I got disowned by my second favorite penguin 😢😢😢😢

Actually i took algebra-based physics as a sophomore in high school because of the district policy. I learned nothing and did pretty normal on stuff. I only began to learn physics by taking calculus-based AP Physics C dual sequence in senior year. I failed in tests, but hey, i learned a lot about physics and did pretty well when i took the upper levels in college.

Anecdotes aside, you can't learn physics by plugging numbers into formulas. And besides, your knowledge of vectors is deeply limited, because you don't learn dot and cross products in algebra-based physics (where do you think the right-hand rule comes from?)

I'm happy to discuss this matter separately

I don't think either one of you is necessarily wrong.

Anecdote time: In high school I took calculus-based AP Physics and, like Lawper, I felt like I had a deep understanding of how physics worked even though I wasn't the best student in the class. I haven't taken a real math class since high school, since I didn't need to in college.

Now that I've been out of college for a couple of years, I decided to take algebra-based physics for my medical school requirements. I did this because I hadn't had math in so long and there's not much that I remember from high school. I found that I felt I had a good conceptual understanding of the material beyond the plugging and chugging, but that was due to my own effort. The algebra-based physics classes came easily for me, and I'm sure some can get good grades just by plugging and chugging, but that doesn't make for a good understanding of concepts.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I can agree with the penguin that if a student puts the effort into understanding physics concepts, that can be done with simple algebra-based physics. But I also agree with lawper that it's sort of a "you don't know how much you didn't know until you try it" with regards to calculus-based physics. Even though I don't remember any of the material from my high school days, I do remember feeling astonished at how all the concepts melded together in my high school physics class. I had to work harder at that to get a conceptual understanding in my post-bac.

 

[Lawpy]

I don't think either one of you is necessarily wrong.

Anecdote time: In high school I took calculus-based AP Physics and, like Lawper, I felt like I had a deep understanding of how physics worked even though I wasn't the best student in the class. I haven't taken a real math class since high school, since I didn't need to in college.

Now that I've been out of college for a couple of years, I decided to take algebra-based physics for my medical school requirements. I did this because I hadn't had math in so long and there's not much that I remember from high school. I found that I felt I had a good conceptual understanding of the material beyond the plugging and chugging, but that was due to my own effort. The algebra-based physics classes came easily for me, and I'm sure some can get good grades just by plugging and chugging, but that doesn't make for a good understanding of concepts.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I can agree with the penguin that if a student puts the effort into understanding physics concepts, that can be done with simple algebra-based physics. But I also agree with lawper that it's sort of a "you don't know how much you didn't know until you try it" with regards to calculus-based physics. Even though I don't remember any of the material from my high school days, I do remember feeling astonished at how all the concepts melded together in my high school physics class. I had to work harder at that to get a conceptual understanding in my post-bac.

There really isn't any debate regarding physics. If you want to focus on medical school without getting gored on details and technicalities, go for algebra-based physics.

It's an economic effect why classes like algebra-based physics are predominant even though Newton, Euler, Lagrange etc. shot it down back in the 1600s-1700s as absurdity (heck even Archimedes thought it was nonsensical). For some reason, AAMC wanted to emphasize the physical emphasis of medicine which is fine, except all physical aspects are described by calculus-based physics (fluid dynamics of blood pressure to Hodgkin-Huxley-like models of action potentials in neurons and cardiac cells).

Algebra-based physics, to put it simply but firmly, is a farce. There's no such thing as explaining physics using only algebra. If physics were to be mandated, at least make it complete by including the rest of the stuff involving calculus, dot and cross products etc.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

Take algebra-based physics if math isn't your jam. I loved that class because the professor was like a nerdy, bespectacled Conan O'Brien.

Actually, just take the class with the better professor. Physics is a class that requires good instruction. Avoid the Physics professors who don't speak English fluently if you can help it.

 

[cactus8910]

Ah damn. I got disowned by my second favorite penguin 😢😢😢😢

Actually i took algebra-based physics as a sophomore in high school because of the district policy. I learned nothing and did pretty normal on stuff. I only began to learn physics by taking calculus-based AP Physics C dual sequence in senior year. I failed in tests, but hey, i learned a lot about physics and did pretty well when i took the upper levels in college.

Anecdotes aside, you can't learn physics by plugging numbers into formulas. And besides, your knowledge of vectors is deeply limited, because you don't learn dot and cross products in algebra-based physics (where do you think the right-hand rule comes from?)

I'm happy to discuss this matter separately

We can disagree without my disowning you, don't worry! 😛

I agree that you get a deeper level of understanding with calculus-based physics, but algebra-based physics wasn't as simple as just plugging numbers into formulas.
So if someone is super into physics, by all means, they should take calculus-based. But if someone wants a general understanding of physics concepts and the ability to do well on MCAT questions, algebra-based will the trick! (And I say this as someone who kicked ass at calculus.)

 

[cactus8910]

Ah damn. I got disowned by my second favorite penguin 😢😢😢😢

I will disown you for calling me your second favorite penguin, though.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Just avoid calculus based physics. Not necessary and won't help you that much.

 

[Lawpy]

We can disagree without my disowning you, don't worry! 😛

I agree that you get a deeper level of understanding with calculus-based physics, but algebra-based physics wasn't as simple as just plugging numbers into formulas.
So if someone is super into physics, by all means, they should take calculus-based. But if someone wants a general understanding of physics concepts and the ability to do well on MCAT questions, algebra-based will the trick! (And I say this as someone who kicked ass at calculus.)

Yeah i acknowledge that. I'm just a little peeved with AAMC for inconsistent physics policy. Either get rid of physics (and i'm fine with that) or provide a complete overlook of physics in calculus-based physics. Algebra-based physics is just an irritating mix of both. Luckily the 2015 MCAT deemphasizes physics to the point of eliminating altogether. I think that's the best approach.

And you will always have a place in my heart but @ProbablyAPenguin is just a tad better 😛 Like a 10/10 vs 9.9999999/10

 

[deleted577188]

I don't understand you people talking about "having a deeper understanding for how physics works" after taking calc-based. I know a lot about physics and I took algebra based. In physics there are concepts that are important to learn. Especially in physics 2, one can reason through a lot of it with the right concepts and understanding of fundamental physics. (Example- how would calc have helped in optics/mirrors? It doesn't really.) I don't think calc-based students are that much better off, and for those of you saying calc-based helped you understand it deeper than normal, you are making yourselves believe that algebra-based teaches nothing. Independent of school, the concepts in physics don't change AT ALL from calculus to algebra based.

For the people who took calc-based, good for you. But, you are not better off or better than anyone else.

 

[ProbablyAPenguin]

Yeah i acknowledge that. I'm just a little peeved with AAMC for inconsistent physics policy. Either get rid of physics (and i'm fine with that) or provide a complete overlook of physics in calculus-based physics. Algebra-based physics is just an irritating mix of both. Luckily the 2015 MCAT deemphasizes physics to the point of eliminating altogether. I think that's the best approach.

And you will always have a place in my heart but @ProbablyAPenguin is just a tad better 😛 Like a 10/10 vs 9.9999999/10

Wahoo I'm special 🙂

 

[VlLLVGE]

Many laborious problems in physics can be solved by taking the derivative/integral/limit of an equation, which can absolutely help you on the MCAT in terms of time saving.

Because of these tricks, the physics GRE avoids questions with simple loopholes in problem solving like that... the MCAT does not. This is specific to only a handful of concepts and equations on the physics section, so if you're looking for something to help you out on the physics MCAT, I wouldn't look down this path (except maybe to seek out the examples and practice them on your own time, avoiding the course if you're not interested in it).

The general chemistry section has fewer exploits.

All-in-all, the additional math required isn't that difficult, it's really just knowing what to integrate over what range to give you whatever answer; generally the MCAT uses nice round numbers making this do-able without a calculator. Conceptually, the courses are no different.

TL;DR it can help you slightly and is not much more challenging than non-calc-based physics, you can benefit on the MCAT from it, but on select portions which may be worth reading on your own time and avoiding the class. I took it and did fine, and found the learning process to help me out more than high school non-calc physics in terms of concepts (but I may have just not cared in hs who knows).

 

[Ladynerd]

If you're reasonably comfortable with calculus, then you'll be fine in calc-based physics. It will also be more intellectually stimulating.

 

[allantois]

There are 100 other things that will help you on MCAT, and Calculus is not one of them.

 

[butternutsquash]

Take the algebra-based physics.