No luck this year; need advice about schools!

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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You need to be very strategic when you apply to medical schools. Don't just take a shotgun approach and send off tons of apps without researching the schools first. You should be able to give each school a specific reason why you would want to go there. If I were you, I would focus on schools in the Midwest and states that are close to OH. You are from the Midwest anyway, and like others have already said, those schools tend to get fewer apps compared to schools on either coast. Hit up all the OH schools and then schools from neighboring states that take a significant number of OOS people (but pass on the Philly and Chicago schools). If you want to go outside the Midwest a little, look at some schools in the South. My list if I were you:

In-state:
Case (main program)
Toledo
NEUCOM
OSU
Cincinnati
Wright St.

OOS in Midwest:
Pitt
U Mich (public but takes a lot of OOS students)
Iowa (ditto)
Penn St. (majority of students are OOS)
Wash U
SLU
Creighton
Rochester (not really Midwestern, but still a Great Lakes city)

OOS in South:
Tulane
VCU (public but takes a lot of OOS students)
UVA (ditto)
Vandy
Emory
Duke
Wake
Miami (gives preference to FL residents, but takes ~1/3 OOS)

Since several schools rejected you with no interview, consider contacting their admissions offices for advice on how you can improve your app. Do this before you reapply. Take their advice to heart and try to fix the weaknesses they point out. Once this app cycle is over, you can also contact the schools that waitlisted you post-interview to get their advice as well. In the meantime, you may want to do some mock interviews and get someone to look over your essays if your college offers those services. Best of luck. 🙂
 
OnlyNeedOneYes said:
Sorry to :beat: guys, but people have been telling me to not apply to any OOS state medical schools next year. My advisor agrees, so now I'm trying to work out a list.

I will be applying to all of my home state schools (OH res) and I am looking for 8-10 OOS private schools. My previous plan was to hit up 25-30 schools, but it looks like I would never be able to pony up enough $ for the secondaries by the late summer.

What I'm looking for:

- Not strongly religiously affiliated, although I am religious.
- Not "top 10/Ivy". I made this mistake this year and didn't get interviews.
- Broad spectrum (i.e. reaches/intermediate/good chances)
- I am interested in radiology, but I'm not sure this matters.
- No geographic restrictions.
Click to expand...

Medical college of wisconsin sounds good

http://www.mcw.edu/FileLibrary/User/pconfer/medschool/2008matchappts.pdf


ALOT of radiology
 
Before you apply again, find out what are your possible weaknesses. I think it was applying late and to a few schools. However, based upon your lack of success in interviews and since I know that you are a friendly person and good communicator, I think you may need to work on your “angle” as well. By that, I mean that med schools seem to want ppl of certain profiles/interests with the most typical ones being research, community service, working with underserved, race/ethnicity, having undergone hardships, and etc. This transfers over to interviews because you want to sell these schools one or a multitude of those angles. In my opinion, give them the “kool aid” they want.

While I know you had a hard time in this cycle, I wouldnt necessarily sell yourself short for the next cycle and consider applying to top 20 schools still. Also, based upon my experiences, you may have a hard time getting interviews for the next cycle at the schools you received invites from in this cycle because they will evaluate your new app against relative to your old app and not against the merits of other applicants. Thus, I would even consider adding more schools. Apply to all the schools in Ohio and private top 20 schools. In addition, here are some schools that I think you would have a very good shot at:

Baylor
Uni of Vermont
USC
Uni of Wisconsin
Uni of Michigan
Georgetown
Rochester
Boston Uni
UVA
Albert Einstein
NYU
Mt. Sinai
SUNYs
Tufts
Maryland
Miami
UTSW(I heard that they are stats oriented)
UCLA and Uni of Washington(difficult but somewhat OOS friendly to ppl with research and I remember you telling me that you were doing research)

These are schools that I believe you dont really need to apply to and may not even be seriously considered since your high stats are so high relative to theirs. However, .if you have the money and feel you must:

-Temple
-Drexel
-Jefferson
-George Washington
-Tulane
-Rosalind Franklin
-NYMC
-SLU
-Wayne State
-Albany
- MSU
- Penn State
- Wake Forest
 
batman1983 said:
Before you apply again, find out what are your possible weaknesses. I think it was applying late and to a few schools. However, based upon your lack of success in interviews and since I know that you are a friendly person and good communicator, I think you may need to work on your “angle” as well. By that, I mean that med schools seem to want ppl of certain profiles/interests with the most typical ones being research, community service, working with underserved, race/ethnicity, having undergone hardships, and etc. This transfers over to interviews because you want to sell these schools one or a multitude of those angles. In my opinion, give them the “kool aid” they want.

While I know you had a hard time in this cycle, I wouldnt necessarily sell yourself short for the next cycle and consider applying to top 20 schools still. Also, based upon my experiences, you may have a hard time getting interviews for the next cycle at the schools you received invites from in this cycle because they will evaluate your new app against relative to your old app and not against the merits of other applicants. Thus, I would even consider adding more schools. Apply to all the schools in Ohio and private top 20 schools. In addition, here are some schools that I think you would have a very good shot at:

Baylor
Uni of Vermont
USC
Uni of Wisconsin
Uni of Michigan
Georgetown
Rochester
Boston Uni
UVA
Albert Einstein
NYU
Mt. Sinai
SUNYs
Tufts
Maryland
Miami
UTSW(I heard that they are stats oriented)
UCLA and Uni of Washington(difficult but somewhat OOS friendly to ppl with research and I remember you telling me that you were doing research)

These are schools that I believe you dont really need to apply to and may not even be seriously considered since your high stats are so high relative to theirs. However, .if you have the money and feel you must:

-Temple
-Drexel
-Jefferson
-George Washington
-Tulane
-Rosalind Franklin
-NYMC
-SLU
-Wayne State
-Albany
- MSU
- Penn State
- Wake Forest
Click to expand...

I wouldn't apply to Washington unless you have a good record of working with the underserved. If you're OOS you'll probably get rejected presecondary.
 
What is a good way to pick schools when your stats are pretty far above the accepted stats at every medical school? I know I really went about it the wrong way this year, but my numbers made me think I would have a good shot anywhere in the country. Obviously, the schools to which I applied felt differently.

Basically, I'm looking for 9-12 private MD schools to apply to (in addition to all of my state schools). I don't want to look at OOS publics because of cost and OOS penalty. I don't really know how to pick 9-12 schools for next year. I know I definitely want to avoid Harvard, Yale, and the like. I don't need prestige, I just need an acceptance.

Will you guys help me get a list of 9-12 privates (no geographic considerations) that might be willing to give me a shot?

- Caucasion male, currently 22yo and married.
- No doctors (MD or DO) in my family history (also, no J.D.'s or Ph.D.'s, ever...).
- Excellent GPA (>>3.8) & MCAT (>>36) combination; attended a mid-range state school.
- Good research, some presentations (incl. nat'l meeting), 1 pub (2nd author).
- ~120 hours of ED volunteering, but very little non-clinical volunteering.
- Shadowing a few MD's, ~50-60 hours.
- Did not participate in clubs much. Didn't see the value in most of them.
- Paid college jobs: 3 different labs (2 qtrs. work study & 2 10-wk summer research programs), MCAT instructor (7 weekends, ~100 hours)
- I'll have 3 science (2 profs and a PI), 1 non-science, and 2-3 physician letters for a total of 6-7. They should all be really strong, unlike this cycle (poor non-science letter and no physicians advocating for me...).

Thanks guys!

--- ONOY ---
 
wow..i would've told you to apply to all the top schools, but maybe instead of rethinking the schools, you should be rethinking your essays or interview answers. It doesn't make sense that you didnt get into any of those schools, unless there was some kind of red flag that prevented them from accepting you (or do you think the red flag was that poor non-science letter?)

Anyway, I would say try to spot the red flag and then apply to all the top schools again..good luck
 
anoncurious said:
wow..i would've told you to apply to all the top schools, but maybe instead of rethinking the schools, you should be rethinking your essays or interview answers. It doesn't make sense that you didnt get into any of those schools, unless there was some kind of red flag that prevented them from accepting you (or do you think the red flag was that poor non-science letter?)

Anyway, I would say try to spot the red flag and then apply to all the top schools again..good luck
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Totally agree - something isn't adding up here. Work on your essays and interviews and apply to one or two "lower-tier" schools for backup.
 
Yes, I'm puzzled as well that you didn't get in this year. What state resident are you considered (if you're a CA or NY resident, it might make some sense as to why you didn't get accepted) but if you're an OH or Texas resident, then there's probably a much bigger problem.

Did you ever get in trouble when you were at school (academic dishonesty/probation/suspension)? What about criminal convictions or misdemeanors (even ones that you received when you were in high school)? Do you know how good your recommendation letters were or your interviewing skills? A problem in any of those could have serious consequences for your application.

Looking at your MDapps, I'd say that number wise you're a very strong applicant. It may that you have a problem with your "soft" skills (interviewing techniques, the personal essay portion, and relationship with your professors). I can't judge how you interview or what you wrote in your essay, but I'd definitely try to make some improvements to those before you re-apply. Also make sure that you have no "red flags" (such as criminal convictions or academic suspensions) in your application if you're not sure whether or not those played a role in your rejection.
 
OnlyNeedOneYes said:
What is a good way to pick schools when your stats are pretty far above the accepted stats at every medical school? I know I really went about it the wrong way this year, but my numbers made me think I would have a good shot anywhere in the country. Obviously, the schools to which I applied felt differently.

Basically, I'm looking for 9-12 private MD schools to apply to (in addition to all of my state schools). I don't want to look at OOS publics because of cost and OOS penalty. I don't really know how to pick 9-12 schools for next year. I know I definitely want to avoid Harvard, Yale, and the like. I don't need prestige, I just need an acceptance.

Will you guys help me get a list of 9-12 privates (no geographic considerations) that might be willing to give me a shot?

- Caucasion male, currently 22yo and married.
- No doctors (MD or DO) in my family history (also, no J.D.'s or Ph.D.'s, ever...).- Excellent GPA (>>3.8) & MCAT (>>36) combination; attended a mid-range state school.
- Good research, some presentations (incl. nat'l meeting), 1 pub (2nd author).
- ~120 hours of ED volunteering, but very little non-clinical volunteering.
- Shadowing a few MD's, ~50-60 hours.
- Did not participate in clubs much. Didn't see the value in most of them.
- Paid college jobs: 3 different labs (2 qtrs. work study & 2 10-wk summer research programs), MCAT instructor (7 weekends, ~100 hours)
- I'll have 3 science (2 profs and a PI), 1 non-science, and 2-3 physician letters for a total of 6-7. They should all be really strong, unlike this cycle (poor non-science letter and no physicians advocating for me...).

Thanks guys!

--- ONOY ---
Click to expand...

anoncurious said:
wow..i would've told you to apply to all the top schools, but maybe instead of rethinking the schools, you should be rethinking your essays or interview answers. It doesn't make sense that you didnt get into any of those schools, unless there was some kind of red flag that prevented them from accepting you (or do you think the red flag was that poor non-science letter?)

Anyway, I would say try to spot the red flag and then apply to all the top schools again..good luck
Click to expand...

Agree with the above advice that likely something "red-flagged you.You must have really screwed the personal statement or had a letter writer screw you because you should have had a solid chance at your state schools unless you thought they were beneath you and it came through in your interviews. Everything counts in this process and there are not "chip shot" schools.

The stuff in bold doesn't matter but having a complete application that is submitted early DOES matter. If you were arrogant enough to think that medical schools would "beat a path to your door", and omitted your state schools, you had your wake-up.

Apply across the board: state schools, out of state schools and yes, DO schools but most of all, put together a well-written application with everything re-worked from this year's application (it didn't work for you this year so why would you think it would work for you next year). Hope for the best because this is a very competitive process that is somewhat but not totally "numbers driven".

Number one cause of not getting admitted to medical school is overestimation of one's competitiveness within the pool of applicants to the schools that you applied to.
 
I would spend alot of time on:

-essays

-interview skills

-have your interviewing and essays reviewed by several people

If several schools came to the same conclusion, even with your numbers, it may be something other than the numbers/EC's that you need to pay more attention to. (I am not trying to bash you at all- I am a re-applicant.)

Good luck!!
 
Thanks for the advice guys. It is easy to understand why I didn't get in this year in retrospect:

- PS could've been better (I'd give it 7.3/10. My advisor really liked it though).
- Not counting the three December apps, I only applied to 8 schools (sec's submitted in July) and they were all pretty bad@$$. Huge mistake.
- The clinical volunteering (ED) is all new for this cycle (started 9/2008)
- I only had about 20 hours of shadowing when I applied.
- I didn't get along with my OSU interviewer. MMI is confusing.

I have no disciplinary issues (criminal or school-related) or anything like that, 100% sure.

So...

School suggestions anyone? I don't have the MSAR and I trust you guys more anyway. MSAR isn't really helpful when you have high numbers.

edit: I'm an OH resident, and the MCAT instructing job is also new for next cycle.

Anything worthwhile I've done since my interviews, I've sent to the schools via email.
 
OnlyNeedOneYes said:
Thanks for the advice guys. It is easy to understand why I didn't get in this year in retrospect:

- PS could've been better (I'd give it 7.3/10. My advisor really liked it though).
- Not counting the three December apps, I only applied to 8 schools (sec's submitted in July) and they were all pretty bad@$$. Huge mistake.
- The clinical volunteering (ED) is all new for this cycle (started 9/2008)
- I only had about 20 hours of shadowing when I applied.
- I didn't get along with my OSU interviewer. MMI is confusing.

I have no disciplinary issues (criminal or school-related) or anything like that, 100% sure.

So...

School suggestions anyone? I don't have the MSAR and I trust you guys more anyway. MSAR isn't really helpful when you have high numbers.

edit: I'm an OH resident, and the MCAT instructing job is also new for next cycle.

Anything worthwhile I've done since my interviews, I've sent to the schools via email.
Click to expand...

Something I learned from a few seasons of reapplication. Of the 8 schools you applied to early and didn't get into, I would say it's a fair bet they gave you a solid look and whatever they didn't like, they probably won't change their mind.

I'd say go ahead and cut:
-any school that rejected you post secondary
-any school that rejected you post interview


Waitlist, tough call. Re-apply at your discretion.
 
I still think you will get off some of those wait lists after 5/15... but I would look at some the "mid tier" schools. Maybe BU, Tufts, Jefferson, Temple. They accept a lot of applicants and have really good programs.
 
Depakote said:
Something I learned from a few seasons of reapplication. Of the 8 schools you applied to early and didn't get into, I would say it's a fair bet they gave you a solid look and whatever they didn't like, they probably won't change their mind.

I'd say go ahead and cut:
-any school that rejected you post secondary
-any school that rejected you post interview


Waitlist, tough call. Re-apply at your discretion.
Click to expand...

curious, why would you suggest that?
 
You just answered your own question - applying to 8 upper-tier schools was madness. NO ONE is a lock at these schools, there are so many applicants for so few slots that the whole process is pretty subjective. The other stuff is just fluff - apply MUCH, MUCH more broadly and gear up for the next cycle. Get someone else to look at your PS for a second opinion, I wouldn't personally use a PS that I would give a 73 (C) to.
 
witness23 said:
curious, why would you suggest that?
Click to expand...


If your application was read and you were rejected the first time through, how much change are you going to make from one year to another? Maybe re-write the PS, maybe an extra EC or two but the core of it is probably going to be the same and the people reviewing it isn't really going to change.

Of the schools I applied to. No school that outright rejected me one year ever interviewed me the second year I applied. I did have several schools that interviewed me one year decline to interview me on successive application attempts. My ultimate successes came when I applied to new schools that I hadn't applied to before. Of course this is anecdotal, but it makes sense.
 
true, but it seems like kid had no clinical experience when he actually applied (not sure if its overwhelming now). i dont think most schools care about update letters either, right?
 
OnlyNeedOneYes said:
Thanks for the advice guys. It is easy to understand why I didn't get in this year in retrospect:

- PS could've been better (I'd give it 7.3/10. My advisor really liked it though).
- Not counting the three December apps, I only applied to 8 schools (sec's submitted in July) and they were all pretty bad@$$. Huge mistake.
- The clinical volunteering (ED) is all new for this cycle (started 9/2008)
- I only had about 20 hours of shadowing when I applied.
- I didn't get along with my OSU interviewer. MMI is confusing.

I have no disciplinary issues (criminal or school-related) or anything like that, 100% sure.

So...




School suggestions anyone? I don't have the MSAR and I trust you guys more anyway. MSAR isn't really helpful when you have high numbers.

edit: I'm an OH resident, and the MCAT instructing job is also new for next cycle.

Anything worthwhile I've done since my interviews, I've sent to the schools via email.
Click to expand...

Folks, this guy has been in a zillion threads and has already received all the advice you are giving him here.

Let's just answer his question.

I would mostly choose high-middle schools. If you go too low, they won't think you are serious. Here are a few:

Case
Northwestern
Mount Sinai
NYU
Einstein
Georgetown
Boston University
Tufts
Wake Forest
Brown
Dartmouth
 
witness23 said:
true, but it seems like kid had no clinical experience when he actually applied (not sure if its overwhelming now). i dont think most schools care about update letters either, right?
Click to expand...

It could also be that he started all those things right before applying. The admissions committee are not going to be fooled if you start volunteering/shadowing 1-3 months before you send in your application - it makes you look insincere and you'll have a hard time convincing them that you really are committed to medicine if you've only taken an interest in getting exposure to the medical field a few months before you apply.
 
please, don't short sell yourself this year and apply to all expensive, lower tiered school.

Before people start flaming me, most smaller, "lower-tiered" private school cost a lot more than upper tier schools.

I remember there was a document somewhere rank school by student indebtness. Top tier schools students have much less debt than small private medical college students.

ONOY, please apply boardly with more emphasis on top 20 schools.
 
Handy388 said:
please, don't short sell yourself this year and apply to all expensive, lower tiered school.

Before people start flaming me, most smaller, "lower-tiered" private school cost a lot more than upper tier schools.

I remember there was a document somewhere rank school by student indebtness. Top tier schools students have much less debt than small private medical college students.

ONOY, please apply boardly with more emphasis on top 20 schools.
Click to expand...

Indebtedness is a poor stat, especially for the top tier, many of who are ivy league schools, whose students went to ivy league schools and whose parents paid for their undergrad and med school, leading to lower indebtedness.
 
OnlyNeedOneYes said:
I don't want to look at OOS publics because of cost and OOS penalty.
Click to expand...

As you are probably aware, there are a few publics that are relatively OOS friendly. VCU/MCV is one, they admit over 60 OOSers per year, and they are no more expensive than private.

Applications blow, but a few extra ones could be the difference between success and failure. Invest the time and money and pile on a few more primaries.
 
drizzt3117 said:
Indebtedness is a poor stat, especially for the top tier, many of who are ivy league schools, whose students went to ivy league schools and whose parents paid for their undergrad and med school, leading to lower indebtedness.
Click to expand...

This is one step away from saying that mostly rich people who don't need loans go to top-tiered schools. 👎 False.
 
drizzt3117 said:
Indebtedness is a poor stat, especially for the top tier, many of who are ivy league schools, whose students went to ivy league schools and whose parents paid for their undergrad and med school, leading to lower indebtedness.
Click to expand...

for some reason most of the so called "back up" small private colleges are ludicriously expensive. GW's COA goes into 70k I believe, Temple's tuition alone is 48k.
 
Just flipped through the MSAR and here's a list of schools I think you should consider aside from the obvious top-ranked programs and all OH schools (based on your stats, state of residency, the fact that you have done research, etc.). You definitely need to research these schools and figure out how you fit in with what they seem to be looking for. That's also important (don't apply haphazardly)

USC Keck
UMiami
Emory
George Washington (consider # of apps though)
Georgetown (consider # of apps though)
Northwestern
UIowa
Tulane
BU (consider # of apps though)
Tufts
Michigan
Mayo (if you feel like a good fit for their philosophy)
St Louis Univ
Creighton
Dartmouth
Albert Einstein
Cornell
Mt Sinai
NYU
Rochester
Wake Forest
Drexel (consider # of apps though)
Jefferson (consider # of apps though)
Penn State
Pitt
Temple (consider # of apps though)
Brown
Vanderbilt
Baylor
VCU
MCW

Just my opinion. You don't need to sell yourself too short, but your best bet is still the Ohio schools since you're a resident. I would sell yourself hard at Case, Ohio State and Cincinnati (as well as Wright State, Toledo, NEUCOM). But you also should give yourself the highest ceiling possible and apply to a handful of top programs not on the list already, like UChicago, WashU, Harvard, Columbia, etc. Its okay if you don't make the cut again, as long as you flesh out your list with some more reasonable schools.

Best of luck man. As an aside (not answering your original question), I would try to get more clinical experience. I don't think there is a such thing as too much clinical experience.
 
just so let you know, drexel didn't even interview me. Before the cycle started I honestly thought it's a school where I am most likely to get in. They have way too many applicants and good numbers alone don't wow them.
 
Handy388 said:
just so let you know, drexel didn't even interview me. Before the cycle started I honestly thought it's a school where I am most likely to get in. They have way too many applicants and good numbers alone don't wow them.
Click to expand...

i always figured drexel as a safety for most high number folks
 
Handy388 said:
just so let you know, drexel didn't even interview me. Before the cycle started I honestly thought it's a school where I am most likely to get in. They have way too many applicants and good numbers alone don't wow them.
Click to expand...

That's why it should be a consideration. Those high-volume-app schools aren't necessarily the best options for "middle tier" schools.
 
roadrunner's list is great

idk, i think the OP deserves to get into any med school, but as he said, its a crap shoot. I'd rather apply to a healthy number of schools (if you really want to go to med school). applying early to 25-30 would be better, you can always cancel interviews after an early acceptance right. In the long run, it is cheaper to be safe and score rather than do this again a year from now. Again, i think you should get in somewhere with 15 apps but i'm not God so...

I thought UMiami and Iowa were state schools?
 
OP, your school list has never really made sense. As other people have said, you applied way too narrowly to only the top schools originally, and late to a few safeties. But you don't completely have to avoid the Top 20 for this cycle--that makes no sense. Apply broadly, and early.

What you should do rather than having SDN pick a list of schools for you is research the schools and find ones that have things that you are interested in. That way you can talk about why you want to go there in your secondaries and how you are such a great fit. This is arguably more important than having stellar stats. I know you've posted in a lot of threads about this issue, but I've never seen you articulate what you are interested in and try to pick schools based on that. Public health? Academic medicine? Some really cool neurosurgeons? Research? Seems like you originally solely tried to play a numbers game and failed.

Work on your EC's and your clinical experience, but I seriously don't understand how you can just pick a bunch of schools out of a hat that you think will take a look at you unless you read up about them and figure out what they are looking for, and if you can offer that.

Just my opinion.
 
This is the fourth thread that has been started to discuss which schools the OP should apply to next cycle. Since they are essentially duplicate threads, they are being merged; it would seem beneficial to those trying to advise the OP to know what he has already been advised in the other threads.

OnlyNeedOneYes, for my part, I still think you stand a good shot at getting in off of one of your waitlists 🙂
 
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=616935

I wonder what's the difference between OP of that thread and ONOY, both are outliers, I feel.

One got into a top 10 with 3.2 and 30, the other failed to score one acceptance with a 3.9 and 39, what happened here? Only OPs can answer.
 
this is a really bad advice

but what about EDP to OSU? you are from there, you are well qualified, you are married so you would like to stay in the area?

probly not a good call. but you have to really like ohio state. anyone who goes through 4 years in a school that athletically underachieves at every level gets attached to that institution.

kidding, imagine if you guys lebron
 
Thanks for the continued input, everybody. As far as what I want to do:

--- Diagnostic rad (go telerad! work from home babay) or gas. I would never consider surgery b/c I don't want to worry hardcore about my hands/fingers/motor control for the rest of my life.

--- Research as a med student would be alright. Research forever? Hell no.

I really think I'll be able to pull a Step I score high enough for either specialty.

A factor (besides cost and/or chance for acceptance) for me avoiding "top" schools is that I don't want to end up in the bottom half of the class. I would rather be in the top 5-10% of an average school, which I think I can manage (sorry if that sounds cocky).

edit:
Any advice is appreciated regarding the following. Here's what I think about my qualities as an applicant compared to the average applicant for the 2009/2010 cycle:

GPA: 9.5/10 (I think 3.9-4.0 is pretty much all the same)
MCAT: 9.5/10 (I don't think more points make a difference beyond maybe 36)
Research: 8.5/10 (after all, no NIH fellowships or 1st author pubs)
Volunteering: 5/10? Maybe right about average (currently; I was probably 1/10 last year)
Shadowing: 6/10 (I was probably 2/10 last year)
Leadership experiences: Don't really have any... No clubs. 1/10 I guess.
Letters of Rec will be probably 7.75/10 I imagine. (maybe ~4.5/10 last year)
Personal Statement: I would imagine that with help/input, I could pull a 7/10.
Secondary Essays: Again, with help/input, I could pull a 7/10.
Interview performance: I'm shooting for 5/10 (average).

The scores are +/- ~1pt, so I would put the average applicant at 4-6 range in each category.

Bonus: MCAT teacher (+?), an empty year to work & gain various experiences throughout the next cycle (which I will talk about on secondaries).

Wild Card: Married (+/-?)

Obviously leadership experience will be my biggest deficit. Please help me out guys: do you think I'll be okay or should I try to tack on an experience b/w now and June? If so, does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks!!!
 
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Handy388 said:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=616935

I wonder what's the difference between OP of that thread and ONOY, both are outliers, I feel.

One got into a top 10 with 3.2 and 30, the other failed to score one acceptance with a 3.9 and 39, what happened here? Only OPs can answer.
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We all know that this process is very subjective. While I recommend that ONOY applies more broadly(no need to apply to schools like GWU and Drexel since they probably wont even consider you based on your stats) and examine his interview skills for next cycle, I think it is unfair to compare his experience to that of the other poster. That poster could have just got lucky and had an interviewer that he/she really meshed with, whereas ONOY might have been unlucky with his interviewers(I can easily relate since Ive had those types of experiences). Moreover, there are other factors that the other poster hasn’t mentioned that may have helped him/her, such as race and economic status, life hardships, residency status, research and volunteering activities, and etc. Also, what top 10 school rankings, research or primary care, was the other poster referring to? Im not trying to disparage any school, but is seems like the top 10 research schools are more selective than the top 10 primary care schools, as well as the 10 top primary care schools are mostly state schools that have preference for instate residents. Honestly, even if the person has a great personality and genuine interest in medicine, I find it hard to believe that he/she got into a top 10 research school with a 3.2GPA/30MCAT without one of those things helping him.

ONOY, I think your best bet right now is to seek feedback from all the schools you applied to, especially the ones that you interviewed at. In addition, I would really recommend trying to get feedback from Case Western. Their admissions staff is really friendly and helpful. The school seems to really go out of their way to help applicants, even applicants that are uncompetitive for their school(like I was before my new MCAT score). As for your application to CWRU, based on the advice I got from their admissions dean, I think the late timing of you application is what killed you there. I submitted my app in late Oct and got an interview invite in mid Nov. However they were already completely filled for interview slots till mid February and only interview till the end of February-mid March range.
 
OnlyNeedOneYes said:
Interview performance: I'm shooting for 5/10 (average).
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Just pointing out that since a school usually accepts far less than half of the people they interview, an "average" performance may well not be enough. The interview portion is extremely important; you've got to go into each one doing your very best to sell yourself and not come off as a pre-med robot. If you try for average, you're gonna sound like a robot, I think. Take a few risks, make a few stands and defend your viewpoints; you might put a couple of interviewers off, but I think you'll impress enough others that you might make for a very good interview in some of their eyes.

I think some pre-meds really make the mistake of trying so hard not to say the "wrong" thing that they wind up with a bunch of really boring answers that don't tell the interviewer anything about you. Don't make that mistake.
 
GoSpursGo said:
Just pointing out that since a school usually accepts far less than half of the people they interview, an "average" performance may well not be enough. The interview portion is extremely important; you've got to go into each one doing your very best to sell yourself and not come off as a pre-med robot. If you try for average, you're gonna sound like a robot, I think. Take a few risks, make a few stands and defend your viewpoints; you might put a couple of interviewers off, but I think you'll impress enough others that you might make for a very good interview in some of their eyes.

I think some pre-meds really make the mistake of trying so hard not to say the "wrong" thing that they wind up with a bunch of really boring answers that don't tell the interviewer anything about you. Don't make that mistake.
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Yeah, don't be argumentative but, as GoSpurs said, say what you really think.* Don't hesitate to support your beliefs with facts.




*Unless you're a serial killer. Then you might want to adopt someone else's opinions instead.
 
I just want to second the point about being able to tell a school why you want to go there in secondaries AND interviews in an enthusiastic and honest way. Unless the school considers itself to be like, the best in the entire geographic region, and of course assumes that you should be honored to even have the chance to even think about maybe going there, they are going to be really interested in your answer to, "why X school of medicine?'
 
you want to know why you haven't had much luck yet this cycle:

OnlyNeedOneYes said:
Volunteering: 5/10? Maybe right about average (currently; I was probably 1/10 last year)
Shadowing: 6/10 (I was probably 2/10 last year)
Leadership experiences: Don't really have any... No clubs. 1/10 I guess.

Interview performance: I'm shooting for 5/10 (average).
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so basically what you're saying is that when you applied (submitted your AMCAS and secondaries) you had no volunteering, clinical exposure, or leadership and you were hoping to coast on your high numbers. i think you've found your answer. what you do while applying clearly doesn't hold as much weight as what you put down on your AMCAS...especially if you scramble to do some of the most important ECs while applying just to show that you did them.

also keep in mind that people tend to overestimate their interview performance and subjective qualifications

OnlyNeedOneYes said:
Bonus: MCAT teacher (+?), an empty year to work & gain various experiences throughout the next cycle (which I will talk about on secondaries).
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i can't see adcom members being too impressed by this...especially since the only qualification is that you did well on the MCAT which they can already see. also it isn't really much of a teaching experience since you are basically reading off a script that they give you.
 
Wow it is just an awesome post! I find myself in the same boat with OP ( I have 4.0/40). I definitely have to look this up to avoid being another ONOY...
 
If you're getting interviews, chances are that it's not your LORS that are sinking you. I'd say that if you're stalling AFTER the interview stage, then you're probably not interviewing well. When did you apply? If you applied late, then you probably have your answer-- it doesn't matter how good your application looks, if you submit late and the school doesn't have a seat for you, then you're going to end up sitting on a waitlist.

How did your interviews go? Have you ever done a practice interview? Do you come off as arrogant or entitled? I guess I'm asking this because you come off as slightly entitled to an acceptance on this thread.
 
silas2642 said:
If you're getting interviews, chances are that it's not your LORS that are sinking you. I'd say that if you're stalling AFTER the interview stage, then you're probably not interviewing well. When did you apply? If you applied late, then you probably have your answer-- it doesn't matter how good your application looks, if you submit late and the school doesn't have a seat for you, then you're going to end up sitting on a waitlist.

How did your interviews go? Have you ever done a practice interview? Do you come off as arrogant or entitled? I guess I'm asking this because you come off as slightly entitled to an acceptance on this thread.
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I feel I interviewed well at Pitt and WashU, but I probably was just straight up outclassed at those schools. At OSU, my interviewer and I clashed on some ethical issues (abortion, euthanasia, stem cell research, etc). At Cincy, I guess I didn't do what they wanted for the MMI, although I felt pretty good about my performance there. I still feel like I did a great job at the Cleveland Clinic, but there are just incredibly few spots (and the other interviewees were all from Harvard, Case, or the NIH).

I know why I didn't get in this year; that's not the issue. When these threads were merged by a mod, the intent was sort of lost.

I'm looking for suggestions about mid-range private schools, and I also want to know if a lack of "leadership" experience is going to sink me. Does anyone have any ideas for "leadership" that I could do in the next 2 months?
 
ONOY, coming from a successful applicant with number below yours, I suggest you trying to develop a unitfying theme for your application, instead of doing patchwork here and there.

I only had shadowing and clincial volunteering and they both weren;'t much, but it was unifying with my other activities.

I don't have formal leadership activities, but it was seldom an issue when I demostrated leadership activities through other areas.
 
skinMD said:
:laugh:

you need to stop viewing ECs as just some boxes you have to tick.
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Looks like you answered my question: I don't need to check the box. Thanks. Way to not be dismissive about a serious question I asked.

And thanks Handy388
 
I agree with the OP; if you read through the thread, the reasons for WHY this application cycle has not gone as well has already been discussed at length. The point behind merging the threads was partially to let everyone see what's already been said so that it wasn't needlessly repeated.

Let's please re-focus on the current question of which schools, specifically some private ones, that he can look to apply to next cycle if it does come to that.
 
gujuDoc said:
To the OP:


You know you may still get off a waitlist and not have to jump through any more hoops this year itself.

Keep in mind that the waitlist movement has not even begun. Come mid May in just a month from next Wed. you may end up getting off one of those W/Ls. And if not right away come May 15th, surely at some point between that date and June or July, and in rarer cases in August itself.

So hang tight.
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Thanks for the positive vibe, but I'm still going to have to get my primary in ASAP 🙂

I've been looking into various schools and taking everyone's suggestions into consideration. Here's what I came up with. There are 24 schools, listed by US N & WR rankings (I know the rankings are a little bogus, but I think they provide a glimpse of the competition in the applicant pools. This does not necessarily apply to unranked schools).

WashU (3) - They WL'd me this year.
Duke (6)
Michigan (11) - Late app, didn't get interviewed this year.
Pittsburgh (14) - They WL'd me this year.
Chicago (16)
Vanderbilt (16)
Emory (20)
Mt. Sinai (23)
Case Western (23) - Late app, didn't get interviewed this year.
Ohio State (30) - They deferred me this year.
Dartmouth (31)
NYU (34)
Cincinnati (40) - They placed me on the alternate list this year.
Wake Forest (42)
Tufts (46)
MCW (52)
Miami (52)
Penn State (N/A)
St. Louis U (N/A) - Didn't know about this gem until my WashU interview.
Toledo (N/A) - Should have applied...
Wright State (N/A) - Should have applied...
NEOUCOM (N/A) - Should have applied...
SUNY-Buffalo (N/A)
SUNY-Syracuse (N/A) - My thesis advisor got his PhD here.

Any help/ suggestions are much appreciated.

I like this list, but I don't think I can afford to apply to all of these schools. I also don't know if the list is broad enough or if it is too top heavy. I would like to narrow this to about 18, but I can't pick 6 schools to get rid of.

Thanks guys!

School Rankings (Research):
2 in 1-10 Range
5 in 11-20 Range
8 in 21-50 Range
9 in 50+ Range or Unranked
 
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