PI's change in demeanor

[rayden001]

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Hey guys

I am currently a post-bacc working as lab tech. Got along well with my PI until I recently informed her about my decision to pursue an MD over MD/PHD or just PHD. I noticed that she stopped paying attention to what I did in the lab anymore. In fact today, she suggested to me that it seems my passion for my project is waning (which is totally false).

If she feels this way, do you think it is advisable to request an LOR from her because I don't think she will have anything really positive to say? It is unfortunate that I have about a year left, and I have to come to work everyday knowing my PI feels this way about me.

Will schools see it as a red flag if they don't recieve a letter from my supervisor of two years? Help 😳

 

[savant]

She may have seen your decision to go from PhD or MD/PhD -> MD as a sign of waning passion for your project.

I don't think I would have divulged my decision to my PI, especially if she saw you as sort of a protege or had something personal at stake in your development as a scientist.

I don't think however that she would write a bad rec for you, but it probably won't be great, as you said. In the meantime however, you could take actions to convey your enthusiasm about the project to her -- like asking questions, or coming up with new ideas, or spending more time in lab.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

**** them.

 

[Mattabet]

Time heals. She might feel a little deserted now, but I'll bet she'll warm up again over the course of the next year, in plenty of time to write you a great LoR. When it comes up, I think I would try to mention my continuing interest in the MD/PhD (even if it's just semi-true), and the work you're doing in the lab.

 

[BlueElmo]

**** them.

Yeah seriously. Why the hell are there so many haters out there against us?

I mean, we are going to be ones who will be treating them and their kids in the future.

 

[rayden001]

She may have seen your decision to go from PhD or MD/PhD -> MD as a sign of waning passion for your project.

I don't think I would have divulged my decision to my PI, especially if she saw you as sort of a protege or had something personal at stake in your development as a scientist.

I don't think however that she would write a bad rec for you, but it probably won't be great, as you said. In the meantime however, you could take actions to convey your enthusiasm about the project to her -- like asking questions, or coming up with new ideas, or spending more time in lab.

I was quite apprehensive about stating my decision, but she did not seem like she will care, particularly. I also needed a letter from her and I thought it might be disrespectful to spring it on her last minute. maybe I should have kept might shut instead.....

The funny thing is I actually do like what I am doing. But just because I decided against getting a PHD should not suggest otherwise.

 

[Beta Cell]

Yeah seriously. Why the hell are there so many haters out there against us?

I mean, we are going to be ones who will be treating them and their kids in the future.

Some PhD's seem to have some false sense of superiority over MD's. I hate that attitude. You can make significant contributions to medicine researching as an MD-only. I have noticed that attitude though, you're not alone.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Some PhD's seem to have some false sense of superiority over MD's. I hate that attitude. You can make significant contributions to medicine researching as an MD-only. I have noticed that attitude though, you're not alone.

To be fair..this works both ways.

 

[Beta Cell]

To be fair..this works both ways.

But an MD would have no reason to exclude a future PhD from his or her research lab.

 

[witness23]

yea you will learn to tell people that you want to be exactly like them. there was really no reason for you to tell your PI that you wanted to go MD only, but the PI should not react like that regardless. I tell everyone thats looking to get responsibilities that they should tell their PI that they want to do MD/PhD no matter what. When you ask for a rec you could just tell them to address it generally to adcom.


you really need to keep your life out of the working space. lab is a place of research and if you do it long enough, you will understand that its no longer an academic thing but just another business and a way of putting food on the table.

a lot of MDs don't like PhDs, lot of PhDs don't like MDs, lot of MD/PhDs don't like non MD/PhDs, and oh, sometimes they don't like themselves. It really doesn't matter though. Just show up on time, always be happy, offer to stay late if you can, predict experiments/take charge, ask questions, and maybe tell them you want MD/PhD again. But Chubbs is right, F%%% 'em.

 

[nancy0223]

Hey guys

I am currently a post-bacc working as lab tech. Got along well with my PI until I recently informed her about my decision to pursue an MD over MD/PHD or just PHD. I noticed that she stopped paying attention to what I did in the lab anymore. In fact today, she suggested to me that it seems my passion for my project is waning (which is totally false).

If she feels this way, do you think it is advisable to request an LOR from her because I don't think she will have anything really positive to say? It is unfortunate that I have about a year left, and I have to come to work everyday knowing my PI feels this way about me.

Will schools see it as a red flag if they don't recieve a letter from my supervisor of two years? Help 😳

Definitely let u PI know that u're still very interested in the project despite your intention to become a MD. It's only my speculation, but sometimes PIs could misinterpret few random signs, especially if you do not interact w/ them directly/frequently, as a loss of passion in the research. But as long as u do show them ur passion in ur research, I don't believe ur LOR will turn out negative.

 

[aznb0y129]

Hey guys

I am currently a post-bacc working as lab tech. Got along well with my PI until I recently informed her about my decision to pursue an MD over MD/PHD or just PHD. I noticed that she stopped paying attention to what I did in the lab anymore. In fact today, she suggested to me that it seems my passion for my project is waning (which is totally false).

If she feels this way, do you think it is advisable to request an LOR from her because I don't think she will have anything really positive to say? It is unfortunate that I have about a year left, and I have to come to work everyday knowing my PI feels this way about me.

Will schools see it as a red flag if they don't recieve a letter from my supervisor of two years? Help 😳

This is eerily similar to something that happened to me a few years ago. When I first started on the project, my PI treated me like the golden child, almost to the point that my fellow research assistants began to resent me. About 6 months into my tenure, I decided to pursue a post-bacc pre-med program and it just happened to come up in conversation one day.

I noticed a stark contrast after that as my PI started to shut me out and I began to dislike working there. 6 months later, I left and found another position (research coordinator, at that). Weirdly enough, my PI was an MD himself, but I suspect that he was upset that I was no longer 100% devoted to the study since I had my classes to worry about as well. My work performance didn't drop off, but he never quite got over it.

Long story short, I still managed to get an LOR from him and as far as I know, nothing negative was written about me. To the OP, I think you should still definitely approach your PI for an LOR. I think the worst thing that will happen is that she will say no; I don't think she would be so petty to agree and then proceed to trash your reputation to adcoms. Best of luck!

 

[senecan]

Wow, that's really unprofessional of your PI. Sorry.

 

[Quadratic]

Wow, that's really unprofessional of your PI. Sorry.

And totally human of her. How dare she...

 

[aznb0y129]

And totally human of her. How dare she...

That doesn't justify her behavior.

 

[BlueElmo]

That doesn't justify her behavior.

I agree. I gonna e-slap that b*tch.

 

[ApoK]

This also happened to me. My PI (an MD/PhD) was really nice and helpful until I mentioned that I wanted to do an MD only or MD+something in policy, because MD/PhD isn't really a fit for me. It was like a night and day difference. Seriously F them. It's ridiculous that people are so slanted in favor of what they themselves do. People should admire and respect other professions, especially if that's what the student wants to pursue...

 

[OpalOnyx]

Hey guys

I am currently a post-bacc working as lab tech. Got along well with my PI until I recently informed her about my decision to pursue an MD over MD/PHD or just PHD. I noticed that she stopped paying attention to what I did in the lab anymore. In fact today, she suggested to me that it seems my passion for my project is waning (which is totally false).

If she feels this way, do you think it is advisable to request an LOR from her because I don't think she will have anything really positive to say? It is unfortunate that I have about a year left, and I have to come to work everyday knowing my PI feels this way about me.

Will schools see it as a red flag if they don't recieve a letter from my supervisor of two years? Help 😳

Ugh. I think you should still ask for a letter for all the hard work you've done thus far.

I also told my PI I wanted to do MD/PhD and haven't informed him otherwise.

I don't like my PI. He once told a story about a health issue and ended it with "Well that's MD's for you... always trying to cover their backs."

Of course, I didn't say anything. But I do think he's an a** and don't plan on going back to the lab to work for free. Just have to get my recommendation for all the work I've put in thusfar.

It's not cool of your PI for suddenly pulling out all that drama. "waning interest" my foot. She's just personally slighted because you don't want to get your PhD. That's your choice. And as a previous poster said, it IS really unprofessional of her to let personal issues get in the way of her work.

Well I'm glad SHE didn't choose to go the MD route. haaha

 

[icekream]

nvm

 

[0Complications]

To be fair..this works both ways.

Actually, for a lot of clinical research where patients are involved the IRB requires an MD to be on hand. But not necessarily the other way around. A lot of MD's are weak in stats, so the closest thing they'll need to get to a PhD is a statistician.

 

[SiR99]

The reason why they get mad is because they feel like you are using them just to put "research" on your medical school application.

Also, instead of giving that volunteer position or job position to someone who is not even going to be involved in research, they can offer it to someone who is going to pursue research and that person will most likely benefit from it more and give it more time as well.

It makes sense!!!!!!!!

Most pre-med students have so much to worry about that its hard for them to put in alot of time for research and this shows in their performance and results. But hey, we all have to jump through these hoops to have a better chance to get into medical school so i dont know.

 

[aznb0y129]

The reason why they get mad is because they feel like you are using them just to put "research" on your medical school application.

Also, instead of giving that volunteer position or job position to someone who is not even going to be involved in research, they can offer it to someone who is going to pursue research and that person will most likely benefit from it more and give it more time as well.

It makes sense!!!!!!!!

Most pre-med students have so much to worry about that its hard for them to put in alot of time for research and this shows in their performance and results. But hey, we all have to jump through these hoops to have a better chance to get into medical school so i dont know.

Except you can be involved in research as an MD. You don't need a PhD for that. And it's unrealistic for PI's to expect students to be content with remaining research assistants on their study forever. I think it's pretty evident that most people use those positions as stepping stones towards something bigger in their career, but if you work hard for them for 1-2 years, you should be rewarded with an LOR at the very least.

 

[Beta Cell]

The reason why they get mad is because they feel like you are using them just to put "research" on your medical school application.

Also, instead of giving that volunteer position or job position to someone who is not even going to be involved in research, they can offer it to someone who is going to pursue research and that person will most likely benefit from it more and give it more time as well.

It makes sense!!!!!!!!

Most pre-med students have so much to worry about that its hard for them to put in alot of time for research and this shows in their performance and results. But hey, we all have to jump through these hoops to have a better chance to get into medical school so i dont know.

I don't agree with that philosophy at all. The purpose of research is to see if you like the research lifestyle as well as to simply become exposed to it. I'm sure many an MD/PhD have been made from originally only MD future applicants as well as many PhD's made from originally future MD applicants.

 

[SiR99]

aznb0y129: I think you have a good point, and most of the time when you tell a PI that you are going to get your MD and be doing research later in your career they are okay with it.

Beta Cell: I agree with that too, you have to try it to see if you like it, but I think PI's just feel used because most pre-meds dont go in with that attitude, they mostly just want it on their application.

 

[DocDrakeRamoray]

I would not want her LOR.

I respect Ph.Ds a lot, but not so much those that don't want you to go to med school. It seems those are the ones that didn't make it to a med school themselves or are not happy with their pay.

 

[rayden001]

Thanks for your responses.

Since I already told her about my plans, I intend on asking for an LOR. If I don't, would it not worsen the situation😕 Is it possible to just have it uploaded in the AMCAS application without actually sending it to schools? Not sure if schools will find out, though.

 

[0Complications]

I would not want her LOR.

I respect Ph.Ds a lot, but not so much those that don't want you to go to med school. It seems those are the ones that didn't make it to a med school themselves or are not happy with their pay.

While I agree that this is sometime the case, don't underestimate what a PI on an R01 grant or two can make. It's a pretty comfortable living, especially considering the schedule flexibility. I think the new NIH cap is ~$200,000.