Pittsburgh or Minnesota?

[morning92]

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I was accepted on Dec 2nd to Minnesota, and I've already put down a deposit to save my spot in their class. This past week, I received an email from Pittsburgh, offering me the opportunity to attend their school as well.

I've looked at the finances, and I realize that there's a difference, but I don't want the money to be the deciding factor. It seems a bit one-dimensional to let numbers be the only thing considered when there are so many things coming into play in this decision.

Pittsburgh is extremely far from home, which I adore. I love my family, but I feel like some distance would be healthy for everyone involved, and I've always wanted to get a fresh start and leave the Midwest. I was thoroughly impressed by what I saw of the school, its program, and its facilities during my interview and the students there seem to be extremely happy with the school, their clinical experiences, and said that they felt extremely prepared when taking their board exams. That said, I know that there have been some complaints about getting enough patients in clinical, particularly for crowns, which means that there won't be as much opportunity to gain experience in some of the more difficult procedures. I definitely prefer the city of Pittsburgh to Minneapolis, but I'm trying to not let that influence me at all, because that has nothing to do with the school.

Minnesota is where I am now. I know the program is quite good, and I've had positive experiences with the staff there - I know that they have several faculty who are beyond willing to go the extra mile to help students. Their labs and clinics, as well, are very nice. The one thing that concerns me was that the students that I talked to at the interview seemed extremely neutral, at best, about their experiences at the school, saying that it was "pretty okay, I guess," and most of the presentations given during the interview focused more on the research possibilities than the school itself, so I don't feel as well-informed about the program's strengths and weaknesses.

My main concern is which program is stronger, and from talking to past students, looking at the information on their websites, and comparing my interview experiences, I honestly can't tell which one is. I know that they both have solid reputations and they honestly seem pretty comparable in terms of overall quality. I only have about another week to decide where I want to go, and my mind's been changing on about an hourly basis as to which one I'm going to. Yesterday, I decided to go to Pittsburgh, and today I was going at Minnesota.

If anyone could offer any advice or opinions, whether it's regarding the programs or my decision, I'd greatly appreciate it!

 

[MAdental]

Hey, Are you OOS for UMN ?

 

[ktran17]

Minnesota is the only dental school in that general north eastern part of the u.s and therefore provides a good variety of cases. If you are instate for Minnesota, it's a no brainer because of cost alone . In addition, about 70% of the class graduates and go straight into private practice. This is a testament of Minnesotas clinical preparation . On top of that, when I was looking at jobs in the Minnesota area, some practices asked for only Minnesota graduates. What I'm saying is, don't worry about clinical preparation at Minnesota , you will get the necessary training.

Lastly, one good thing about Minnesota is that they require you to take the Canadian boards before you graduate. It's a requirement directly integrated into the curriculum and therefore when you graduate from umn you qualify for Minnesota licensure automatically. Thus, you don't have to worry about some gap period while waiting for state licensure approval / regional board at a different state. This policy allows you to directly practice almost automatically after graduation.

If you have any specific questions let me know , I will be attending umn this fall. Feel free to join the fb group for additional opinions !

 

[str8ner]

First of all, congratulations on getting in! Enjoy this time before you start. How big is the financial difference? If the difference is large, the financial aspect should play a factor.

You're description seems to favor Pittsburgh. You like the city and you could tell the students were happy. I don't have any personal experience with these schools but I am relatively sure the difference in quality is negligible.

One thing that I've noticed about Minnesotans is that they tend to clam up or give sort of vague nondescript answers rather than offer negative comments even if it's the truth. This should be a red flag in your mind. If all the U of M students can say is "it's ok", and the financial difference is insignificant to you, go to Pitt.

 

[Luna724]

I applied both but only accepted to Pitt so I have no choice, but boy am I glad to finally live somewhere else other than the west bank 🙂

One of the things that did not stick to me too well at the umn interview was about how D3's (or D4s) are required to spend weeks working at rural communities like Duluth. I get that students get to have more working experience with some autonomy but to what extent, I wasn't sure.
On a minor note, the students at Pitt I met during the tour of the facility complained about how the lectures are not recorded for students' convenience. I personally don't mind but they did say that at least one person from the class usually ends up recording the lectures and shares with peers.

 

[morning92]

Thank you for the responses! To clarify, I am an in-state student for Minnesota and the overall difference in cost, including housing and other things. looks to be slightly over $15k a year. So there's definitely a difference, but it's not so large that I'd feel uncomfortable choosing one or the other based on finances. At this point, my plan is to hopefully make a decision by this coming Tuesday and give up my spot at one of the schools, but if I can't decide and don't feel prepared, I'll put down a deposit at Pittsburgh to give myself a little more time to decide between them. I want to decide soon, though, because I know that there's someone out there who's waiting with held breath to get a spot and I don't want to cause anyone unnecessary stress...

Thank you so much for the info on UMN, ktran17. I do remember those statistics and have been talking to alumni of the program, but it's a great refresher to hear them again! I have already joined the facebook group for both schools and have been browsing for opinions for a few days now. Everyone seems very excited to be going to both schools, which is fantastic, and it's great to see someone is excited to come to Minnesota! It's encouraging to see that people are happy to be going both places (though it'd make this decision so much easier if there was a clear difference in opinions, haha). I'm planning on asking around there after I've had this thread up for a few days, just because I suspect that people might be a little more biased one way or another, depending on where they're planning on attending. 🙂

Str8ner, thank you for the response! I grew up in Minnesota and definitely saw their answers as a bit of a red flag, but I did interview later on in the cycle, so I was hoping it was just that they were tired of giving tours and such. I can definitely see it as you described it, however, so I'm going to see if I can get into contact with any D3s or D4s and see if they have any specific comments. At this point in time, I am leaning slightly towards Pittsburgh, but I want to make absolutely certain that I'm not doing something silly that I'll regret later on. 🙂

Luna724, are you in the honors thesis writing class with Dr. Schiff and Dr. Haas, by any chance? Just wondering, because I might have interviewed at Pitt on the same day as you. Congrats to you on your acceptance! The student who led my group around definitely did not mention that the lectures weren't recorded, so thank you for letting me know about that. The rural volunteerism was a bit of a sticking point with me as well, but it did seem like a good opportunity to try out what you learned in clinic, so I'm a bit torn about how I feel about it.

 

[sbh]

ktran17 makes a good point about the Canadian board requirement at UMN. But keep in mind, the Canadian board is only accepted for licensure in the state of Minnesota. UMN will only have the Canadian board available on-site beginning 2018, so if you plan on practicing elsewhere you will need to go to a different site to take the corresponding regional boards which can be a hassle, although I've heard it's been done. Just as ktran17 pointed out, being the only dental school in the area I feel that UMN will provide an excellent clinical experience. UMN did have the most patients packed in the clinics on the day of my interview compared to the other schools I visited. I turned down my UMN acceptance because I don't have any concrete plans to practice in Minnesota and my wife hates the cold, plus OOS tuition is nuts.

I feel that Pitt has an excellent program as well. Things that stand out are the anesthesia certificate program, special needs clinic, implant requirements for all students, decent specialization rates, being able to take the Part I boards after D1 (albeit taking on a heavy courseload in D1) and getting it over with and being able to focus on clinic D2 henceforth. Main concern for me was the worsening patient pool due to a reduction in PA public insurance. I'm concerned that this will detract from my clinical experience and for me it's a significant factor.

I'm currently deciding between Pitt and a few others and it's a difficult decision to make. Since the cost isn't a factor for you, I'd choose the one based on what you want to get most out of d-school.

Congrats on your acceptances and good luck with your decision!

 

[ktran17]

SBH, you are correct that the Canadian board limits you to practicing in the state of Minnesota directly out of dental school. However, you can look it from a different perspective. If you were not practicing immediately when you graduate, what would you be doing instead? Realistically, what a person should do is get their MN license, sign up for a short-term contract with a practice and work on their regional board of choice simultaneously.

I don't know if its just me, but the thought of not doing any dentistry for even a couple months right out of school, scares the heck out of me. I'm scared my skills would deteriorate quick. In addition, there are bills to be paid after you graduate dental school. I guess if you are well off, or have some place to stay until all your paper work comes in then this would not be a problem..

In the end, choose the program that best fits you. Unlike Luna, I found the 4th year rural requirement and emphasis on research as being a positive. Everyone has different wants and needs from a program. Just identify what yours are.

I would like to point out a list of elective courses you can take in the 4th year as well!
http://www.dentistry.umn.edu/current-students/dds-electives/index.htm

 

[sbh]

SBH, you are correct that the Canadian board limits you to practicing in the state of Minnesota directly out of dental school.

That's not my point. My point is that there will be extra work and stress going off-site to take other regional boards if one chooses to do so. On the contrary, if you're planning to practice in Minnesota, it's even better since you don't have the stress of having to find a patient because the Canadian board does not require you to have one.

If you were not practicing immediately when you graduate, what would you be doing instead? Realistically, what a person should do is get their MN license, sign up for a short-term contract with a practice and work on their regional board of choice simultaneously.

I'm not sure it's "realistic" for a clinic to want to sign you on for a 2-3 month gig and anything like a year contract is not short-term for me. Regardless, it doesn't alleviate the fact that you will need to go off-site to take another regional board if you want to practice outside of Minnesota which is the point I was trying to make. I don't know about you, but once I start working I'd prefer to focus on work rather than immediately worry about taking another board.

I don't know if its just me, but the thought of not doing any dentistry for even a couple months right out of school, scares the heck out of me. I'm scared my skills would deteriorate quick. In addition, there are bills to be paid after you graduate dental school. I guess if you are well off, or have some place to stay until all your paper work comes in then this would not be a problem..

Every other non-UMN dental student is not screwed because they have to wait for their paperwork. Certainly not all of them are "well off" or "have some place to stay." It's a few months ahead of a life-long career that will hopefully be financially rewarding and one that will more than likely make up for this small lapse. If one is really concerned about his/her skills deteriorating, one may consider doing a residency which will allow him/her to practice right away prior to receiving licensure paperwork.

I found the 4th year rural requirement and emphasis on research as being a positive.

I would like to point out a list of elective courses you can take in the 4th year as well!
http://www.dentistry.umn.edu/current-students/dds-electives/index.htm

I'm with you on this. I think UMN's emphasis on outreach, clinical training, and flexibility in electives are major strengths of the program. It's an excellent program and I wouldn't have applied if I thought any less.

Everyone has different wants and needs from a program. Just identify what yours are.

Agreed.

 

[Screwtape]

I never Minneapolis was in north eastern USA. You learn something new everyday. OP, pick whichever you feel best fits you. Both are fine schools.

 

[ktran17]

Haha, relatively north east. I didn't say east coast =P