Pittsburgh or Temple

[ultimateballer07]

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Which is the better school and why? I'm adding one more school to my list and want to know which of these 2 I should apply to! Please help. Thanks!

 

[BrazilianRider]

.

 

[distressstudent]

Add both.
Trust me.

 

[ajj70]

Add both.
Trust me.

Probably true. What schools do you have on your list already?

 

[I want to go to there]

I would pick both, but if you really can only afford to apply to only one, I would choose Temple for its clinical strength.

 

[Incis0r]

I would pick both, but if you really can only afford to apply to only one, I would choose Temple for its clinical strength.

What do you mean by "clinical strength?" Can you elaborate, please?

 

[I want to go to there]

What do you mean by "clinical strength?" Can you elaborate, please?

It's known for being one of the most clinically strong schools in U.S.. Graduating students from those schools have more diverse clinical experience and higher average number of procedures under their belt than those from other schools.

 

[Frychicken]

What do you mean by "clinical strength?" Can you elaborate, please?

It's a buzzword that pre-dents throw around based on hearsay and their own perceived perceptions to compare schools. Both schools will adequately prepare you to become competent clinicians. As most graduated dentists say, the real learning starts after you get your degree from the more preferrably cheaper school.

Just apply to both OP.

 

[Incis0r]

It's known for being one of the most clinically strong schools in U.S.. Graduating students from those schools have more diverse clinical experience and higher average number of procedures under their belt than those from other schools.

Do you know if the ADEA Guide to Dental Schools 2015 reports clinical instruction? I'm looking through the survey of dental education 2010 report right now, and it appears that Temple Dental offers ~3733 hours of clinical/dental instruction total. This is right below the mean of 3743.1 hours.

Schools that really catch my eye for clinical instruction include:
A.T. Still- 6205 hours of total clinical instruction
MWU-AZ- 4,026 hours of total clinical instruction
USC- 4,563 hours of total clinical instruction
Univ. of Colorado- 4,742 hours of total clinical instruction
Univ. of Iowa- 5,019 total hours of clinical instruction
Harvard- 4,115
BU- 4,354
UMDNJ- 4,234
Marquette- 4,552

For reference, I got this information from report 4, "Curriculum" of the ADA Survey of Dental Education 2010 series. Source: http://www.ada.org/en/science-research/health-policy-institute/data-center/dental-education

 

[Incis0r]

As most graduated dentists say, the real learning starts after you get your degree from the more preferrably cheaper school.

This is something I have heard many times as well. However, what do you think about my previous post on data from the ADA Survey of Dental Education? 6,205 hours of total clinical instruction (ex. at AT Still) vs. 3743 hours national avg....that's a pretty significant difference.

What I wonder is...are these schools using extra clinical instruction to train better dentists, or are they using extra clinical time because the students need it to complete the same requirements that other schools can complete in shorter amounts of time....ie the schools with more time give more time because it is harder to fulfill graduation requirements.

 

[I want to go to there]

Do you know if the ADEA Guide to Dental Schools 2015 reports clinical instruction? I'm looking through the survey of dental education 2010 report right now, and it appears that Temple Dental offers ~3733 hours of clinical/dental instruction total. This is right below the mean of 3743.1 hours.

Schools that really catch my eye for clinical instruction include:
A.T. Still- 6205 hours of total clinical instruction
MWU-AZ- 4,026 hours of total clinical instruction
USC- 4,563 hours of total clinical instruction
Univ. of Colorado- 4,742 hours of total clinical instruction
Univ. of Iowa- 5,019 total hours of clinical instruction
Harvard- 4,115
BU- 4,354
UMDNJ- 4,234
Marquette- 4,552

For reference, I got this information from report 4, "Curriculum" of the ADA Survey of Dental Education 2010 series. Source: http://www.ada.org/en/science-research/health-policy-institute/data-center/dental-education

Just because you are in clinic doesn't mean you have patients during most of those time. Those stats are very misleading and not at all reliable. Only good way to determine clinical strength is to call or email clinical director for the schools you are interested in for clinical and inquire about the number and variety of procedures average graduating students get.

 

[ajj70]

Just because you are in clinic doesn't mean you have patients during most of those time. Those stats are very misleading and not at all reliable. Only good way to determine clinical strength is to call or email clinical coordinator for the schools you are interested in for clinical and inquire about the number and variety of procedures average graduating students get.

How do you know this for sure? Can you post some of the email responses you have gotten so we can see what the differences are?

 

[Incis0r]

Just because you are in clinic doesn't mean you have patients during most of those time. Those stats are very misleading and not at all reliable. Only good way to determine clinical strength is to call or email clinical director for the schools you are interested in for clinical and inquire about the number and variety of procedures average graduating students get.

I agree. See my post below the one you quoted. What you expressed in this quote is one of my concerns, which I also stated.

I recognize that dental school admissions/choosing a dental school is a very subjective process. However, I'm trying to take into account as many objective facts as possible so that I can make as informed of a decision as possible in the future.

@ultimateballer07 , I looked at the report and Pitt has ~200 more hours of total clinical time over Temple....which is negligible in the long run since it is only an additional 5%. So they're both even on hours...I'd probably look at factors like cost of attendance, e-mail a few of their graduating seniors and see their impressions, etc.

 

[I want to go to there]

How do you know this for sure? Can you post some of the email responses you have gotten so we can see what the differences are?

I called the schools I was interested in that were known for their clinical strength. Ones that stood out were Temple and UDM and their graduates do 50+ extractions including wisdom teeth and a few endos. Those are the only stats that I remember off top of my head because others weren't important to me.

 

[Incis0r]

I called the schools I was interested in that were known for their clinical strength. Ones that stood out were Temple and UDM and their graduates do 50+ extractions including wisdom teeth and do a few endo. Those are the only stats that I remember of top of my head because others weren't important to me.

Do you know if Temple students get multiple of these kinds of cases in their 3rd years, or are these cases given only to 4th years who need them for graduation purposes? I guess what I'm asking is- what's your sense of the availability of patients at Temple?

 

[I want to go to there]

Do you know if Temple students get multiple of these kinds of cases in their 3rd years, or are these cases given only to 4th years who need them for graduation purposes? I guess what I'm asking is- what's your sense of the availability of patients at Temple?

If you want them, you will get them. At clinically strong schools, you get what you put in and your education doesn't get limited because of the patient pool. If you spend extra time in the clinic and go overachieving mode at those schools, I really do believe that you can come out an excellent dentist, not merely a "competent" dentist trained "adequately" by the school as @Frychicken said above.

 

[ultimateballer07]

You guys thanks a lot for every word of advice. Appreciate it. I might award both. Not sure yet. But do either offer extensive pre-doctoral implant training in the curriculum? Or block schedule with exams at the end of each instead of semester long courses?

 

[Incis0r]

You guys thanks a lot for every word of advice. Appreciate it. I might award both. Not sure yet. But do either offer extensive pre-doctoral implant training in the curriculum? Or block schedule with exams at the end of each instead of semester long courses?

I'd call Admissions and ask this. If they can't answer, I'd ask to be connected with perio and ask them this. You have every right to find out whatever you want about the program, and if it's something that is really important to you (like implant training), best to get the information directly from them. After all, you're paying them.

 

[I want to go to there]

You guys thanks a lot for every word of advice. Appreciate it. I might award both. Not sure yet. But do either offer extensive pre-doctoral implant training in the curriculum? Or block schedule with exams at the end of each instead of semester long courses?

Implant training as in you actually get to do them? No school lets you do the actual surgery part before residency, but pretty sure that you do get to do the crown part of it at Temple. No idea about the didactic.

 

[Incis0r]

@ultimateballer07

IMPORTANT. I just looked at the number of patient visits/# of patients treated by dental students, as recorded in 2013-14 in the same Survey of Dental Education (report 1 this time).

It appears that Univ. of Pittsburgh had 57,652 total patient visits with 3,100 new patients. Temple Dental had 109,221 total patient visits with 10,920 new patients. I think this is more significant than the statistics posted earlier.

 

[distressstudent]

@ultimateballer07

IMPORTANT. I just looked at the number of patient visits/# of patients treated by dental students, as recorded in 2013-14 in the same Survey of Dental Education (report 1 this time).

It appears that Univ. of Pittsburgh had 57,652 total patient visits with 3,100 new patients. Temple Dental had 109,221 total patient visits with 10,920 new patients. I think this is more significant than the statistics posted earlier.

to keep things in perspective, temple has a bigger class size (~1.5)

 

[I want to go to there]

@ultimateballer07

IMPORTANT. I just looked at the number of patient visits/# of patients treated by dental students, as recorded in 2013-14 in the same Survey of Dental Education (report 1 this time).

It appears that Univ. of Pittsburgh had 57,652 total patient visits with 3,100 new patients. Temple Dental had 109,221 total patient visits with 10,920 new patients. I think this is more significant than the statistics posted earlier.

Take it with grain of salt as I'm pretty sure that it counts patients for all programs including hygiene. Larger the size of dental school as a whole, larger the capacity of treatment. Only sure fire way to judge clinical strength is to ask the schools directly about the clinical experience. Damn, the number for Midwestern IL and Roseman is just sad.

 

[ultimateballer07]

@I want to go to there why what is it?

 

[I want to go to there]

@I want to go to there why what is it?

Schools with ridiculously low numbers(don't go there):

Roseman - 1492, Midwestern - IL 630, Lecom - 1062, East Carolina - 1857.

The actual document is listed under Survey of Dental Education Series: http://www.ada.org/en/science-research/health-policy-institute/data-center/dental-education

The number for UDM is lower than what you would expect for its clinical reputation. but I think they don't get that many patients for programs other than general dentistry due to the population's low wealth.

 

[Incis0r]

to keep things in perspective, temple has a bigger class size (~1.5)

Take it with grain of salt as I'm pretty sure that it counts patients for all programs including hygiene. Larger the size of dental school as a whole, larger the capacity of treatment. Only sure fire way to judge clinical strength is to ask the schools directly about the clinical experience. Damn, the number for Midwestern IL and Roseman is just sad.

Of course, of course. You need to control for specialty programs, class size, etc. Still, that is a pretty significant difference in my opinion.

Temple will be on my preliminary list. I'll conduct more research about the school through the ADEA Guide to Dental Schools, call them with questions, etc. before making a final decision on whether to apply there, but it does look promising so far.

 

[ultimateballer07]

@Incis0r are you applying to Pitt also?

 

[Incis0r]

@Incis0r are you applying to Pitt also?

I'm a rising junior right now, so I'm applying next year. Doing my research on schools this year, hence my participation in threads like yours.

In response to your question, probably not- Pitt is a great school, but due to certain circumstances (which I can go into in more detail over PM), I will not be sending many applications out next year.

 

[ultimateballer07]

Is Pittsburgh a nice city though? I like bigger cities.

Also if anyone knows some specifics about Nova that's not listed on the website please chime in!