Planning 4th yr Rotations

[MedicineMike]

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I am trying to plan out my 4th yr electives (which are all before xmas) and don't really know how to fill them. I am interested in Radiology and was curious to see what rotations would benefit me the most, in the long run. I have a feeling I shouldn't just do 5 rads rotations in a row, but could I do one DR, one IR, one neurorads? I dont want it to look like I ONLY care about imaging.

Thx for the help

 

[jth0099]

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[TheTwits]

I definitely recommend that you do NOT do 5 away or home radiology rotations. First of all, many program directors straight up dislike seeing this, because it's one of your last times to interact with clinicians from other specialties.

Also, your letters also should be from a wide variety of clinicians. Many program websites state their preference is to have max 1 or 2 radiology letters, so doing 5 rotations is a bit extreme.

A happy balance would be to do one IR rotation (if you're interested in it) and whichever other rads subspecialty you like. Some might also recommend doing a general rotation so that you meet the most people possible. Note, aways in radiology only work in your favor if you're likable.

In addition, as a D.O, you need to apply broader than everyone else even if your stats are killer. Seriously, don't underestimate this. There are various threads on here and auntminnie that talk about D.O.-friendly programs. Doing an away at one of these institutions would be the best use of your time if you decide to do one.

 

[Puff-of-Snow Sign]

Front-load your 4th year schedule with mostly important stuff (like required AIs/sub-Is, ICU, etc.) so you can work hard and get good letters from them. I'd also make sure you get in a rads rotation to demonstrate your interest and make sure you like it (as best as one can tell such things from a med student rotation in rads). Save your other rads rotations for the end of your 4th year, when you will be very focused on doing as little real work as possible.

 

[MedicineMike]

I definitely recommend that you do NOT do 5 away or home radiology rotations. First of all, many program directors straight up dislike seeing this, because it's one of your last times to interact with clinicians from other specialties.

Also, your letters also should be from a wide variety of clinicians. Many program websites state their preference is to have max 1 or 2 radiology letters, so doing 5 rotations is a bit extreme.

A happy balance would be to do one IR rotation (if you're interested in it) and whichever other rads subspecialty you like. Some might also recommend doing a general rotation so that you meet the most people possible. Note, aways in radiology only work in your favor if you're likable.

In addition, as a D.O, you need to apply broader than everyone else even if your stats are killer. Seriously, don't underestimate this. There are various threads on here and auntminnie that talk about D.O.-friendly programs. Doing an away at one of these institutions would be the best use of your time if you decide to do one.

Thx a lot for the help

I have pretty good stats so far but I also know about the DO thing as my ball-and-chain. I plan on doing my entire 4th yr in hospitals in the area I want to do residency, so hopefully this will have a good impact and prove that I want to be in that area. I am very likeable/outgoing and want to use that to my advantage, so I will most likely do 1-3 auditions at the hospitals I want to apply to (again, all in this region of the US).

So which rotations do you guys recommend to fill my slots?

 

[jejun]

I actually think doing an away research elective with a Radiology attending at a program you like can be extremely impactful. (Assuming you have research skills, the attending/mentor is fun to work with). The attending at the away can actually write a substantial letter for you and get to know you (relative to rounding on a Sub-I or ICU). I also felt like having those "work hard rotations" don't really benefit you if you already have strong clinical letters from your MS3 year. I guess different things worked for different people/schools...

 

[yesno]

I actually think doing an away research elective with a Radiology attending at a program you like can be extremely impactful. (Assuming you have research skills, the attending/mentor is fun to work with). The attending at the away can actually write a substantial letter for you and get to know you (relative to rounding on a Sub-I or ICU). I also felt like having those "work hard rotations" don't really benefit you if you already have strong clinical letters from your MS3 year. I guess different things worked for different people/schools...

Which hospitals offer good research rotations for away students? I.e. 1 month research?

 

[yesno]

Front-load your 4th year schedule with mostly important stuff (like required AIs/sub-Is, ICU, etc.) so you can work hard and get good letters from them. I'd also make sure you get in a rads rotation to demonstrate your interest and make sure you like it (as best as one can tell such things from a med student rotation in rads). Save your other rads rotations for the end of your 4th year, when you will be very focused on doing as little real work as possible.

Since when are ai or subi in medicine or surgery required if you're not going into that field? And wouldnt a specialist( even in an unrelated field like derm or ortjo) write u a better lot anyway?

 

[govnah]

Its my understanding that subI's are becoming the norm for US medical schools.

It is my impression that radiology programs want to see that you interact with clinicians well outside of just radiology.. general formula calls for medicine + surgery + rads letters for your app. I disagree that a derm or ortho letter would be better, since you can actually perform nearly at the level of an intern on a general medicine service, moreso than in derm clinic. Also, it is understood that the gen med physicians see many medical students and have a better idea how a medical student does relative to other students their level.

But in the grand scheme of things, if the reader doesn't personally know the letter writer, it is probably not worth a whole lot anyway.

 

[yesno]

So basically taking a subi in 4th year means u work like a scout monkey, learn how to be a bitch , and will not necessarily get a good a letter because a hospitalist or CRC surgeon might be more impressed by some one who wants to be one of them. U know writing those stupid notes and harassing consults that they are ashamed to do themselves and doing rectals.

 

[Puff-of-Snow Sign]

Your attitude really sucks, dude. But yes, that's the general idea of an AI (and intern year, for that matter). And I disagree with your thoughts about whether a hospitalist or a surgeon would write a good letter for you. Put in the same level of effort as the guy who wants to be a surgeon and I guarantee you that you won't be disappointed when it comes time to ask your attending if he/she will write you a letter.

 

[MedicineMike]

What should I do if my subI rotation isn't until March of next yr...during the match? Won't really do much good for me there...

 

[Puff-of-Snow Sign]

I'm on my 2nd AI right now. Obviously won't be asking for a letter. Got 1 from my first AI (medicine) and 1 from a 3rd rotation in surgery (spent a full month with the same attending an no other med students). My 3rd letter was from my rads mentor.

 

[tco]

I submitted a letter from an IR attending (what I want to do), a radiologist that knew me well, and a pediatrician that worked with me quite a bit on the rotation.

I would try to schedule rads early, just to make sure that's what you want to do. I did rads, IR, two medicine rotations including my sub I (required). After those, I took a month of and did step 2 and interviews.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[MedicineMike]

Are subI's required for internships that you want to do? Say I want to do a TY or prelim year at a certain hospital/location -- should I do an 'audition internship' at that place?

 

[TheTwits]

Are subI's required for internships that you want to do? Say I want to do a TY or prelim year at a certain hospital/location -- should I do an 'audition internship' at that place?

This is really going to vary place to place. Of course, if a program knows you and they like you, that's an obvious huge bonus to separate you from the crowd.

However, you might be better off contacting the program coordinator or director at whichever institution you're interested in, tell them you would love to be there for intern year for whatever reason, and ask them if it would be helpful to rotate there.

 

[MedicineMike]

This is really going to vary place to place. Of course, if a program knows you and they like you, that's an obvious huge bonus to separate you from the crowd.

However, you might be better off contacting the program coordinator or director at whichever institution you're interested in, tell them you would love to be there for intern year for whatever reason, and ask them if it would be helpful to rotate there.

Which leads me to another question: where can I find a list of places that offer internships? I know I have to apply to internships separately from institutions since most aren't categorical, but I don't know where to find a list of TYs and prelim yrs and surgical internships

 

[Puff-of-Snow Sign]

I've never heard of anyone at my institution doing an away for a prelim/TY. Seems like a lot of effort for a prelim, but that might be worth it to you.

You can search for prelims on FREIDA by going under advanced search and clicking the "offers preliminary positions" option. TYs are listed under their own category. Most other prelims will be under IM or Surg.

 

[TheTwits]

I agree with Puff-of-Snow. I've never heard of anyone doing an away for prelim/TY either. Maybe it's different for D.O.'s though.

 

[MedicineMike]

Ok, so most of the DO friendly program's, in the area I want to do residency, dates don't match up with my rotation dates. However, some of the big academic places (that I don't have a chance of matching at) do. Would it be a bad idea to do an IR and a rads research rotation at these institutions? I think I could potentially get a good letter...

Also, I am getting a very good LOR from my surgery clerkship 3rd yr in which I was one on one with the attending the entire month. With that being said, I still want to do an subI just to get experience, and not necessarily do it for the LOR. Would it even be worth anything if I did it at an institution I am interested in during interview season? Or would it just be a waste?