Planning away rotations

[madchemist89]

I am a current M3 at a school without a rad onc program, which puts me in a difficult situation regarding trying to figure out where to apply. At the moment, I think my major obstacles, as far as my residency application is concerned, are my lack of rad onc or onc research in general and lack of a home program. Because I have recently decided to pursue this field, I'm looking for schools that would be more open to my lack of research. I am unable to glean this type of information or figure out where I might be competitive based on programs' websites, which all read very similarly. I already know that I will try to do a rotation at the only program in my state, but I am searching for two more, and I have no geographic preferences. Any help regarding this matter would be much appreciated.

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[napoleondynamite]

I guess the two strategies would be:

1) Do one big name program for a letter and one mid-tier place as an audition

or

2) Do two mid-tier places, both as auditions

I'd favor #2 if I were you. When I was in your shoes I did #1, but I question how much that MDACC rotation "helped" me in terms of getting in. It was really cool from a career standpoint to rotate there and be able to put things into perspective later..but if your focus and worry right now is just getting in, I would rotate at places where you have a realistic shot of getting in. Without research and a home program, top tier is an uphill battle but getting in is not necessarily if you are a likeable person, work hard and show dedication on your rotations.

 

[metallica81788]

I am a current M3 at a school without a rad onc program, which puts me in a difficult situation regarding trying to figure out where to apply. At the moment, I think my major obstacles, as far as my residency application is concerned, are my lack of rad onc or onc research in general and lack of a home program. Because I have recently decided to pursue this field, I'm looking for schools that would be more open to my lack of research. I am unable to glean this type of information or figure out where I might be competitive based on programs' websites, which all read very similarly. I already know that I will try to do a rotation at the only program in my state, but I am searching for two more, and I have no geographic preferences. Any help regarding this matter would be much appreciated.

I was in your situation and I hedged what napoleondynamite said and kind of did both - 1 big name for letter and 2 auditions at mid-low tiers. My lower-tier letter was equally as helpful as my big-name letter per my interviewers. I realized later that my bigger name rotation was only helpful for the letter and for seeing how things were done at a place like that; it was doubtful I actually had a chance of matching there and I didn't even like it that much.
You can spread yourself geographically, i.e. including one in the Midwest where others may not want location-wise as much.
Check out the away rotation impressions and hopefully that can help you out. Good luck.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Pick a mid-tier program (or 2, or 3) with a well known name at the Chair/PD spot and knock out two birds with one stone.

Per my experience, name was huge on 2 my LoRs. My other 2 LoRs were from less (or unknown) attendings, and while the content was nice, it was clear that LoRs from more well known and published Rad Oncs got my foot in the door. That being said, apparently the content was equally good on all 4 per multiple interviewers.

You definitely need research in Rad Onc, so I'd consider a research rotation at a big name place like MDACC to get a couple abstracts and stuff together and submitted, along with at least 2 audition rotations.

 

[Sheldor]

I guess the two strategies would be:

1) Do one big name program for a letter and one mid-tier place as an audition

or

2) Do two mid-tier places, both as auditions

I'd favor #2 if I were you. When I was in your shoes I did #1, but I question how much that MDACC rotation "helped" me in terms of getting in. It was really cool from a career standpoint to rotate there and be able to put things into perspective later..but if your focus and worry right now is just getting in, I would rotate at places where you have a realistic shot of getting in. Without research and a home program, top tier is an uphill battle but getting in is not necessarily if you are a likeable person, work hard and show dedication on your rotations.

I came here to add my 2 cents, but this is exactly what I would say to the word. My MDACC was cool, but not nearly as helpful to my career ambitions as if I had just done two more realistic places.

 

[scarboost]

I also regret my rotation at a top three place, as well. I got great letters, but I think i could have gotten those at a midtier place and given myself a chance at another interview there from the same hard work. Also i don't think the big places are that good for a rotation. They are oftentimes so big that you really don't get the chance to meet everyone well and they feel like an assembly line with so many rotators. Stick to low tier to midtier places. Work hard, don't complain, nail consults, always smile, be on time, be a nice good person, don't be annoying and you will be just fine. I actually really wish I would have applied this strategy when I considered my away rotations.

 

[madchemist89]

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

 

[Sheldor]

I also regret my rotation at a top three place, as well. I got great letters, but I think i could have gotten those at a midtier place and given myself a chance at another interview there from the same hard work. Also i don't think the big places are that good for a rotation. They are oftentimes so big that you really don't get the chance to meet everyone well and they feel like an assembly line with so many rotators. Stick to low tier to midtier places. Work hard, don't complain, nail consults, always smile, be on time, be a nice good person, don't be annoying and you will be just fine. I actually really wish I would have applied this strategy when I considered my away rotations.

So you went with the rotate at top tier and be lazy, complain often, bomb consults with a frown, be late, be mean and annoy all around you strategy?

 

[Carlin]

I also went to a school without a rad onc program. I was still able to get involved with research with a med onc attending, which I think helped my application. This might be something that you could do too, before you go on your aways.

 

[scarboost]

Do med onc or surg onc research. basic science research (If you have the time). I did surg onc and med onc research more than rad onc and got enough interviews to predict a match. The most important thing is to carry the project through and be able to answer a few questions about it during interviews.

 

[texan2009]

Is 3 Rad Onc rotations always the ideal? I was hoping to do just my home and one other good away. My home institution is a top 5 program and I will have a PhD in Radiobiology. Would this be a big deal to do just 2?

 

[md228]

Is 3 Rad Onc rotations always the ideal? I was hoping to do just my home and one other good away. My home institution is a top 5 program and I will have a PhD in Radiobiology. Would this be a big deal to do just 2?

I think that is fine. People who are from very strong home institutions (think Harvard, Michigan, etc) are actually told not to do any additional aways and just do their home rotation. You could technically just get away with your home rotations if you have enough letters of rec from there. I think an away rotation provides a nice perspective on how different other programs may be, but they're expensive and somewhat exhausting. You definitely would not need to do 2 away electives unless there are 2 big programs you're particularly interested in checking out in great detail

 

[SJSM001]

Another vote for two is fine. If you have a strong home program and multiple letters from your home rotation, you can definitely do one away. It's still worth it to get another program's perspective on you, I think.

 

[cefhcl]

I think two total rotations is a very reasonable option if you have a strong home program, but given that you don't have a home program I think three would be ideal. Like others have mentioned, I'd think hard about doing a rotation at the "Big 3" (MSKCC/MDACC/HROP) - they take a ton of rotators, competition is super high, and they don't always grant interviews to their rotators. There are many other excellent programs where you can get excellent letters and a greater shot at an interview.

 

[mongol1985]

I thought rad onc programs allow 4 letters max. If one of which is a medicine/peds letter, another from PhD/research advisor, then there are only two additional rad onc letters one can send (say one from home, one away), which is not a lot... Is there a way to send more than 4 letters if we get multiple rad onc letters from home institution?

 

[texan2009]

I thought rad onc programs allow 4 letters max. If one of which is a medicine/peds letter, another from PhD/research advisor, then there are only two additional rad onc letters one can send (say one from home, one away), which is not a lot... Is there a way to send more than 4 letters if we get multiple rad onc letters from home institution?

Why don't you just substitute a Rad Onc letter with the med/peds letter? I think it would help you more.

 

[PharMed2016]

Is 3 Rad Onc rotations always the ideal? I was hoping to do just my home and one other good away. My home institution is a top 5 program and I will have a PhD in Radiobiology. Would this be a big deal to do just 2?

I had the residency director at my home program tell me that 2 radonc away rotations will be fine in addition to one at your home institution.