Plausible to send letter of intent pre-II and to a school that doesn't accept updates?

[TheAppleJuice]

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So I have been complete since July at my state school and it is my top choice. Have not heard back anything yet

I was wondering if people send letter of intent BEFORE getting an interview? also, the school does not accept updates but I'm not sure if that matters.

thanks

 

[Skiiiiiing]

super desperate

 

[gyngyn]

Don't do it.

 

[21Rush12]

They don’t want it and it wouldn’t help anyway.

 

[Goro]

So I have been complete since July at my state school and it is my top choice. Have not heard back anything yet

I was wondering if people send letter of intent BEFORE getting an interview? also, the school does not accept updates but I'm not sure if that matters.

thanks

And how would you interpret a non-binding contract from a desperate applicant??????

 

[medstar*]

And how would you interpret a non-binding contract from a desperate applicant??????

Out of curiosity...what's so wrong with appearing desperate? Obviously 99.9% of applicants are desperate. Isn't it a good thing to show you really really care about this school in particular and it's not just another place on the list? If you're an applicant who is not a long shot at the school and have had a successful application cycle but haven't heard from your numero uno, why is it a bad idea to send a LOI pre-II? Granted you truly know what the school is all about and can explain your connection to it.

Sending a letter to a school that doesn't take updates is another story imo.

 

[Med Ed]

Out of curiosity...what's so wrong with appearing desperate? Obviously 99.9% of applicants are desperate.

Really?

des·per·ate
ˈdesp(ə)rət/
adjective

1. feeling, showing, or involving a hopeless sense that a situation is so bad as to be impossible to deal with.
   "a desperate sadness enveloped Ruth"
   synonyms: despairing, hopeless
   
   • (of an act or attempt) tried in despair or when everything else has failed; having little hope of success.
     "drugs used in a desperate attempt to save his life"
     synonyms: last-ditch, last-gasp, eleventh-hour, do-or-die, final
     
     
   • (of a situation) extremely bad, serious, or dangerous.
     "there is a desperate shortage of teachers"
     synonyms: grave, serious, critical, acute, risky, precarious

 

[Master Thinker]

That's like asking Goro or gyngyn how many cats I will have to fit in my secondary photo for an acceptance lol. BTW what is the answer? (Asking for a friend 😛)

 

[MonkeyArrow]

Out of curiosity...what's so wrong with appearing desperate? Obviously 99.9% of applicants are desperate. Isn't it a good thing to show you really really care about this school in particular and it's not just another place on the list? If you're an applicant who is not a long shot at the school and have had a successful application cycle but haven't heard from your numero uno, why is it a bad idea to send a LOI pre-II? Granted you truly know what the school is all about and can explain your connection to it.

What is to stop an applicant from sending a LOI to every school that they applied to?

 

[Neuroticpremed2k17]

Would writing an update letter and including a brief section about how the school appeals to you also be considered desperate?

 

[Goro]

Out of curiosity...what's so wrong with appearing desperate? Obviously 99.9% of applicants are desperate. Isn't it a good thing to show you really really care about this school in particular and it's not just another place on the list? If you're an applicant who is not a long shot at the school and have had a successful application cycle but haven't heard from your numero uno, why is it a bad idea to send a LOI pre-II? Granted you truly know what the school is all about and can explain your connection to it.

Sending a letter to a school that doesn't take updates is another story imo.

To paraphrase the great Louie Armstrong:
If you have to ask, you'll never know.

 

[Goro]

Would writing an update letter and including a brief section about how the school appeals to you also be considered desperate?

No, but it's highly unlikely to give you any traction, except at those needy schools or those that like to see candidates grovel, like Gtown and Jefferson, and maybe Mayo.

 

[Piglet2020]

School told you it doesn’t accept updates.

You send a LOI (which is pretty much an update).

Worst case scenario: School now knows you don’t read or care to follow instructions. You are now in the reject pile.

Best case scenario: School is already wishy-washy about offering you an II & already put you on hold; this LOI just adds to the thousands of piles of docs they have to go through, delaying the process until perhaps late Jan/Feb.

 

[medstar*]

Really?

des·per·ate
ˈdesp(ə)rət/
adjective

1. feeling, showing, or involving a hopeless sense that a situation is so bad as to be impossible to deal with.
   "a desperate sadness enveloped Ruth"
   synonyms: despairing, hopeless
   • (of an act or attempt) tried in despair or when everything else has failed; having little hope of success.
     "drugs used in a desperate attempt to save his life"
     synonyms: last-ditch, last-gasp, eleventh-hour, do-or-die, final
     
     
   • (of a situation) extremely bad, serious, or dangerous.
     "there is a desperate shortage of teachers"
     synonyms: grave, serious, critical, acute, risky, precarious

From Webster's:

suffering extreme need or anxiety

• desperate for money

• celebrities desperate for attention

I repeat, 99.9% of applicants are desperately waiting to hear good news from adcoms.

 

[Med Ed]

I repeat, 99.9% of applicants are desperately waiting to hear good news from adcoms.

Oh, so now they've gone from desperate to desperately waiting.

There is certainly varying levels of anxiety for every sane person in the process, but desperation is, by definition, and extreme state. It also makes a terrible cologne. Saying only one applicant in a thousand is not in an extreme state is rather melodramatic.

mel·o·dra·mat·ic
ˌmelədrəˈmadik/
adjective

1. relating to melodrama.
   • characteristic of melodrama, especially in being exaggerated, sensationalized, or overemotional.
     "he flung the door open with a melodramatic flourish"
     synonyms: exaggerated, histrionic, overdramatic, overdone, operatic, sensationalized, overemotional, overwrought, sentimental, extravagant

 

[Med Ed]

So I have been complete since July at my state school and it is my top choice. Have not heard back anything yet

I was wondering if people send letter of intent BEFORE getting an interview? also, the school does not accept updates but I'm not sure if that matters.

thanks

To paraphrase your question:

"So my state school told me that I should not push the red button. Should I push the red button?"

 

[Oso]

I agree with the following points:
- if a school tells you NOT to send updates of any kind, then you shouldn't do it
- nothing is stopping an applicant from sending LOI's to every school
- sending a LOI can make an applicant look 'desperate', however you want to interpret it
- it probably won't help or make a difference

However, let's say a school doesn't explicitly say they don't want any updates --- if it's your top choice, state school (aka in-state tuition), almost the end of interview season... then why not just do it? What have you really got to lose? Sure you may annoy an adcom but they will get over it.

People send pre-interview LOI's to residency programs all the time, talking about why they would be a good fit, what they like about the program, possible geographic preferences, etc. I've even heard of applicants asking faculty to reach out to a program coordinator/director on their behalf. And there are success stories of people getting interviews and even matching there (I don't have actual stats on this)

So what am I missing here? Will the OP sending an email help, especially this late in the game? Probably not, but if he wants to throw a hail mary then why not? And yes, I know he's asking about medical school interviews and not residency.

 

[medstar*]

Oh, so now they've gone from desperate to desperately waiting.

There is certainly varying levels of anxiety for every sane person in the process, but desperation is, by definition, and extreme state. It also makes a terrible cologne. Saying only one applicant in a thousand is not in an extreme state is rather melodramatic.

mel·o·dra·mat·ic
ˌmelədrəˈmadik/
adjective

1. relating to melodrama.
   • characteristic of melodrama, especially in being exaggerated, sensationalized, or overemotional.
     "he flung the door open with a melodramatic flourish"
     synonyms: exaggerated, histrionic, overdramatic, overdone, operatic, sensationalized, overemotional, overwrought, sentimental, extravagant

I believe you may be too far removed from the personal experience of applying to medical school to empathize. It is an extremely stressful process. One that either furthers or crushes dreams and determines what the next 7 years of your life are going to look like. One that puts extreme financial strain on many applicants. It is unsurprising that nearly all applicants are in an extreme state.

 

[Med Ed]

I believe you may be too far removed from the personal experience of applying to medical school to empathize. It is an extremely stressful process. One that either furthers or crushes dreams and determines what the next 7 years of your life are going to look like. One that puts extreme financial strain on many applicants. It is unsurprising that nearly all applicants are in an extreme state.

I talk to many applicants each year, and I believe you are projecting.

 

[Med Ed]

So what am I missing here? Will the OP sending an email help, especially this late in the game? Probably not, but if he wants to throw a hail mary then why not?

This kind of stuff gets annoying from the admissions side because the basic underlying insinuation is that the screeners got it wrong. That's not to say screening is perfect, but when a school doesn't want to meet you in a given cycle there is typically a reason. Occasionally we have unsuccessful applicants who manage to make a name for themselves through their correspondence with the staff, and not in a good way.

The right way to do this, one which can actually earn you some cred, is to contact all the schools you get rejected from and seek feedback. Take said feedback from those that give it and use it to improve your app. Head into your next cycle (which may not be the following year) new and improved.

 

[Goro]

However, let's say a school doesn't explicitly say they don't want any updates --- if it's your top choice, state school (aka in-state tuition), almost the end of interview season... then why not just do it? What have you really got to lose? Sure you may annoy an adcom but they will get over it.

You get flagged as someone who is either a special snowflake who can't follow very simple instructions, or as someone who thinks that the rules don't apply to them. What's the risk? You never, ever getting into that school. The application process is about reducing risk.

"We get over it" indeed. Please restrain your ignorance of the admissions process.


People send pre-interview LOI's to residency programs all the time, talking about why they would be a good fit, what they like about the program, possible geographic preferences, etc. I've even heard of applicants asking faculty to reach out to a program coordinator/director on their behalf. And there are success stories of people getting interviews and even matching there (I don't have actual stats on this)

So what am I missing here? Will the OP sending an email help, especially this late in the game? Probably not, but if he wants to throw a hail mary then why not? And yes, I know he's asking about medical school interviews and not residency.

What you missing is that many people have terrible understanding of the concept of cause and effect. Every year I see some posts in threads like these from SDNers who write "I was on the wait list and then sent in a LOI and two days later got an II!"

No, the Adcom finally got around to looking at the apps in the pile and got to yours.

 

[Oso]

You get flagged as someone who is either a special snowflake who can't follow very simple instructions, or as someone who thinks that the rules don't apply to them. What's the risk? You never, ever getting into that school. The application process is about reducing risk.

Well, again I meant in a scenario in which a school does not mention that they do not want updates/communication -- Like I said, I agree that if a school says they don't want these that you should just listen.

What you missing is that many people have terrible understanding of the concept of cause and effect. Every year I see some posts in threads like these from SDNers who write "I was on the wait list and then sent in a LOI and two days later got an II!"

I'm just going off what I've heard from several faculty and advisors at my school who recommend sending LOI's to programs you're particularly interested in. Often times these are residency program directors/associate directors. I know I am extrapolating from residency applications to medical school admissions, but I think my questions still have some merit.

Though of course, I do appreciate your input Goro and anyone else who has direct and extensive experience with the admissions process.

 

[Med Ed]

I'm just going off what I've heard from several faculty and advisors at my school who recommend sending LOI's to programs you're particularly interested in. Often times these are residency program directors/associate directors. I know I am extrapolating from residency applications to medical school admissions, but I think my questions still have some merit.

It's not a bad question, but the landscape of UME admissions is quite different from GME. Speaking only for the allopathic side, in UME there are about 150 institutions processing over 800,000 applications, with an overall success rate for applicants of about 40%. A minority of accepted applicants get more than one offer.

In GME you have about 18,500 AMG seniors and over 28,000 PGY-1 positions among over 4,200 individual programs. The match rate is ~94% each year. With the increase in the average number of applications filed per applicant, figuring out who really wants to rank your program highly vs. who is using it as a safety has become very important.

Hence, the signal to noise ratio in pre- and post-interview contact is considerably different between the two systems.

 

[onyxbell]

I believe you may be too far removed from the personal experience of applying to medical school to empathize. It is an extremely stressful process. One that either furthers or crushes dreams and determines what the next 7 years of your life are going to look like. One that puts extreme financial strain on many applicants. It is unsurprising that nearly all applicants are in an extreme state.

I mean if you have already made up your mind about sending one to your school, despite the comments here, then please by all means be our guest. It's just that in healthcare, evidence-based medicine is a thing so we implore you to come back and report the outcome of your decision please. This will boost our analysis by adding a data point (as for changing the conclusion of the original topic that's a different aspect). Just know that you have to bear the consequences of the actions you've decided to take.

 

[medstar*]

I mean if you have already made up your mind about sending one to your school, despite the comments here, then please by all means be our guest. It's just that in healthcare, evidence-based medicine is a thing so we implore you to come back and report the outcome of your decision please. This will boost our analysis by adding a data point (as for changing the conclusion of the original topic that's a different aspect). Just know that you have to bear the consequences of the actions you've decided to take.

I'm not the OP. I was just arguing why it's unsurprising most applicants are desperate and asking why showing this desperation is so bad as I've seen 'oh don't do that you'll look desperate' many many times on SDN regarding various circumstances. Telling someone not to send a LOI because there's no evidence it works is one thing but saying don't do it you don't want to appear desperate seems ridiculous to me since everyone knows applicants are desperate. I agree sending a LOI likely doesn't affect your chances at a school and it seems not smart to send a letter to a school that specifically says it does not accept any updates.

 

[Lawpy]

So I have been complete since July at my state school and it is my top choice. Have not heard back anything yet

I was wondering if people send letter of intent BEFORE getting an interview? also, the school does not accept updates but I'm not sure if that matters.

thanks

Letters of intent are basically useless before interviews. You usually don't commit to a school until after you interview there, and even then, letters of intent have the most impact if you already have other acceptances in hand but are willing to ditch them for the school you are interested. Letters of interest are generally useless because you are just rehashing your application and repeating why you are a good fit for that school... which the school can read from your secondaries/application/interviews.

Also, sending a letter of intent to a school that doesn't accept updates is the fastest way to get your application tossed in the trash for failing to follow directions.

 

[DokterMom]

Oh, so now they've gone from desperate to desperately waiting.

There is certainly varying levels of anxiety for every sane person in the process, but desperation is, by definition, and extreme state. It also makes a terrible cologne. Saying only one applicant in a thousand is not in an extreme state is rather melodramatic.

mel·o·dra·mat·ic
ˌmelədrəˈmadik/
adjective

1. relating to melodrama.
   • characteristic of melodrama, especially in being exaggerated, sensationalized, or overemotional.
     "he flung the door open with a melodramatic flourish"
     synonyms: exaggerated, histrionic, overdramatic, overdone, operatic, sensationalized, overemotional, overwrought, sentimental, extravagant

Fabulous turn of phrase! My compliments --