Please Assist: Post-Bac or SMP???

[docgats]

Hello, I am a new member who is grateful for this site due to all the valuable information I have been reading from other posts. However, I have a question about whether I should take the SMP at Georgetwon University or a post-bacc. at U of Maryland. Here is my scenario:

I took the BCPC at a CC years ago and finally graduated with an AA in Pre-Pharmacy acquiring a 2.97 through many difficult storms. My grades are as follows:

General Biology I = C
General Biology II = C
General Chemistry I = C
General Chemistry II = C
Organic Chemistry I = B
Organic Chemistry II = B
Physics I = C
Physics II =C

I managed to overcome all the obstacles and I am now about to graduate with a B.S. in Psychology at a 3.98 GPA this December. I have also made it a point to take all my electives in different Biology including Neurobiology and Molecular and Cellular Biology and received As in all of them.

I also work full time in the IT field of which I hate with a passion but realize that the bills have to be paid. I am therefore trying to weigh the options of taking a Post-bacc. to prepare for allopathic medical school, which will take me about two years and raise my scores (by how much I don't know). The post-bacc is an evening program and will not interfere with my living conditions. After the post-bacc, I intend to take the MCAT and wait (crossing my fingers).

The SMP on the other hand is an eleven month program and will give me a masters in Physiology. However, I will have to take the MCAT by April 7 or GRE and quit my job in about a year in order to complete the program. This decision will completely distort my financial situation since I will be relying on student loans but if I do well, may place me in Georgetown Medical School.

My question to the members of this board is which path is feasible because despite the grades in my previous coursework, I know I have great potential and all the things that were preventing me from maximizing on my potential are no longer there.

Any advice will be appreciated!

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[Meatwad]

First question: What are your GPA's, both overall and BCPM? If you have 60 credits at a 2.97 and 60 credits at a 3.98, you'd have a 3.475 overall GPA. Is this your GPA? If so, I'd go SMP, even though your pre-req grades are low. With a solid MCAT score, you'll prove you've moved on from those old days of C's in pre-reqs. Doing well in the SMP would help you out tremendously.

Anyway, tell us your GPA so we can help.

 

[docgats]

Thanks for your quick response Meatwad. I have no idea what my overall GPA is because I do not know how to calculate GPA especially since some of the classes such as Biology and Physics were counted as 4 credit hours. Is there a link to the AAMCAS GPA that I can use to calculate it? Thanks again.

 

[njbmd]

Hello, I am a new member who is grateful for this site due to all the valuable information I have been reading from other posts. However, I have a question about whether I should take the SMP at Georgetwon University or a post-bacc. at U of Maryland. Here is my scenario:

I took the BCPC at a CC years ago and finally graduated with an AA in Pre-Pharmacy acquiring a 2.97 through many difficult storms. My grades are as follows:

General Biology I = C
General Biology II = C
General Chemistry I = C
General Chemistry II = C
Organic Chemistry I = B
Organic Chemistry II = B
Physics I = C
Physics II =C

I managed to overcome all the obstacles and I am now about to graduate with a B.S. in Psychology at a 3.98 GPA this December. I have also made it a point to take all my electives in different Biology including Neurobiology and Molecular and Cellular Biology and received As in all of them.

I also work full time in the IT field of which I hate with a passion but realize that the bills have to be paid. I am therefore trying to weigh the options of taking a Post-bacc. to prepare for allopathic medical school, which will take me about two years and raise my scores (by how much I don't know). The post-bacc is an evening program and will not interfere with my living conditions. After the post-bacc, I intend to take the MCAT and wait (crossing my fingers).

The SMP on the other hand is an eleven month program and will give me a masters in Physiology. However, I will have to take the MCAT by April 7 or GRE and quit my job in about a year in order to complete the program. This decision will completely distort my financial situation since I will be relying on student loans but if I do well, may place me in Georgetown Medical School.

My question to the members of this board is which path is feasible because despite the grades in my previous coursework, I know I have great potential and all the things that were preventing me from maximizing on my potential are no longer there.

Any advice will be appreciated!

Provided you meet the minimum GPA/MCAT criteria, a SMP would be an ideal route for you provided you do very well. The caveat is that you MUST do well. SMPs allow students to prove that they can handle the challenge of a medical curriculum. The SMP at Georgetown is well-recognized.

You can do a Google search and see if there are any GPA calculators out there. I am certain that there are some so look for them. Basically, you multiply the number of credit hours by your grade to obtain the number of quality points. For example, if you took General Biology at 5 credits and earned an A which is 4.0 then you would have 5 credits x 4.0 which is 20.0 quality points. Do this for every class except those taken Pass/Fail. Then add the total number of quality points for all your classes and divide by the total number of hours. Again if you have a total number of 100 quality points from 28 hours then you would have a final GPA of 3.57.

You can make an Excel spread sheet by listing your courses in one column, then number of hours in the next column, then your grade (A=4.0, A- = 3.7, B+ = 3.5, B = 3.0, B- = 2.7, C+ = 2.5,C = 2 ...) and then the quality points in the last column. Total the quality points and then total the hours column. Divide total quality points by the number of hours total and that's your GPA. Include every class except the Pass/Fail and the withdrawals, even those that were retakes.

 

[docgats]

Thank you njbmd for your response and help on how to calculate the GPA. I will work on it right away. Both responses I have received so far have been very helpful.

 

[drizzt3117]

If you really have a 3.5, I don't think you need to do a SMP or a postbac. Take the MCAT, score higher than 30, and you should get into some schools, despite your issues during your AA degree.

 

[postbacker]

If you really have a 3.5, I don't think you need to do a SMP or a postbac. Take the MCAT, score higher than 30, and you should get into some schools, despite your issues during your AA degree.

OP appears to have a very poor BCMP GPA in the low 2.x range...even if he somehow has an pverall GPA of 3.5 (that sounds high to me), it is very out of whack on the BCMP...I agree the post bacc is probably not needed, but he could be an ideal candidate for an SMP, but I would first go through an app cycle and test the waters before doing an SMP...apply VERY broadly to a lot of schools...he may get to skip the SMP...

 

[Nasem]

my opinion is...
I think you should mostly focus on post-bacc and forget the SMP all together for the time being. You need to bring up your BCMP, take additional chemistry / biology / physics / astronomey courses, these will bump up your GPA and BCMP.

WHEN you have fixed the BCMP issue (within the next 1 to 2 years), you can then start applying to whatever school.

Question:
how did you get a job in IT with pre-Pharmacy major ?
I work in I.T as well, but I am a computer science / math major

 

[drizzt3117]

OP appears to have a very poor BCMP GPA in the low 2.x range...even if he somehow has an pverall GPA of 3.5 (that sounds high to me), it is very out of whack on the BCMP...I agree the post bacc is probably not needed, but he could be an ideal candidate for an SMP, but I would first go through an app cycle and test the waters before doing an SMP...apply VERY broadly to a lot of schools...he may get to skip the SMP...

I'm not seeing that his BCPM will be that low. If his overall at the CC was ~3.0 and he ended up taking upper division sciences during his BS, which is apparently the case, its possible its higher. Anyways, there's no use speculating, the OP needs to post his OA and BCPM before anyone can give any advice that's more than just idle speculation.

 

[docgats]

Thank you Nasem and drizzt3117 for all your posts and advice. I am still in the process of calculating my overall BCMP GPA which is why I have not yet included it in my post. I may just do better with a post-bacc because it will be a smoother transition for me. If I decide to take the SMP, it will have to be by August, 2008 therefore I would have to sit for the April 7th MCATs to qualify. By working full time, taking my final class which happens to be a very high level Biology class in Epidemiology and studying for the MCAT at the same time it may be better to just start a post-bacc in January, 2008 and focus on raising my BCMP GPA, taking more high level Biology and Chemistry classes and sitting for the MCATs when I am done with the program. Thanks again for all your advice.

 

[postbacker]

I'm not seeing that his BCPM will be that low. If his overall at the CC was ~3.0 and he ended up taking upper division sciences during his BS, which is apparently the case, its possible its higher. Anyways, there's no use speculating, the OP needs to post his OA and BCPM before anyone can give any advice that's more than just idle speculation.

He's got 32 hours of pre-reqs clocking in at 2.25...hard to conceive of an aggregate BCPM above 3.0 with that weighing down his GPA...regardless, that is a very poor GPA on the pre-reqs that will haunt him throughout the app process no matter how strong his upward trend...

 

[Nasem]

He's got 32 hours of pre-reqs clocking in at 2.25...hard to conceive of an aggregate BCPM above 3.0 with that weighing down his GPA...regardless, that is a very poor GPA on the pre-reqs that will haunt him throughout the app process no matter how strong his upward trend...

that might be true.... his pre-reqs is running in the low 2.XX,
My assumption is, if he takes 60 credits hours of nothing but science classes and gets an average of 3.7 in all of them, he might be able to raise that BCMP to something pretty reasonable (3.3ish)

One more thing, people here talk mostly about GPA and MCAT score, what they forget to mention is the state of residency.... Your application is HUGLY effected by which state you live in.... some states have a bunch of state-schools that more than 80-85% of the students they take in are only from THIER state, so you'll stand a pretty good shot with a 3.3ish GPA if your in one of those states.....

I'll give you an example, Im from michigan, Wayne state and Michigan state send approx 85% of thier acceptences to thier michigan students ....I have personally talked to more than just a few folks who are now in wayne state / MSU who were in a very similar situation to you, they were non-trads, after working in some other non-medical field (example engineering), they realised they wanted to go into medicine, so they did a 2-3 year post-bacc work obtaining anywhere from 50-80 additional post-bacc credits.... all the folks I talked to got accepted in thier first or 2nd time applying and thier GPAs are no where near the current average of 3.5-3.6

By the way, Wayne state has a 350 student class and I think MSU is somewhere around there too. The total number of michigan applicants is about 1100 every cycle and about 500-550 who get accepted AND ATTEND are from michigan alone.

One advice I can give you is, to contact ALL your state schools and explain to them your situation, tell them everything, your ECs, your numbers, your MCAT, blah blah blah..... they will guide you on how you can make your application stand out better.....

 

[postbacker]

that might be true.... his pre-reqs is running in the low 2.XX,
My assumption is, if he takes 60 credits hours of nothing but science classes and gets an average of 3.7 in all of them, he might be able to raise that BCMP to something pretty reasonable (3.3ish)

One more thing, people here talk mostly about GPA and MCAT score, what they forget to mention is the state of residency.... Your application is HUGLY effected by which state you live in.... some states have a bunch of state-schools that more than 80-85% of the students they take in are only from THIER state, so you'll stand a pretty good shot with a 3.3ish GPA if your in one of those states.....

I'll give you an example, Im from michigan, Wayne state and Michigan state send approx 85% of thier acceptences to thier michigan students ....I have personally talked to more than just a few folks who are now in wayne state / MSU who were in a very similar situation to you, they were non-trads, after working in some other non-medical field (example engineering), they realised they wanted to go into medicine, so they did a 2-3 year post-bacc work obtaining anywhere from 50-80 additional post-bacc credits.... all the folks I talked to got accepted in thier first or 2nd time applying and thier GPAs are no where near the current average of 3.5-3.6

By the way, Wayne state has a 350 student class and I think MSU is somewhere around there too. The total number of michigan applicants is about 1100 every cycle and about 500-550 who get accepted AND ATTEND are from michigan alone.

One advice I can give you is, to contact ALL your state schools and explain to them your situation, tell them everything, your ECs, your numbers, your MCAT, blah blah blah..... they will guide you on how you can make your application stand out better.....

Absolutely true and cannot be overstated how one's state of residency matters (and should be factored into understanding the MSAR stats RE low GPA matriculants).

 

[budhak0n]

Hello, I am a new member who is grateful for this site due to all the valuable information I have been reading from other posts. However, I have a question about whether I should take the SMP at Georgetwon University or a post-bacc. at U of Maryland. Here is my scenario:

I took the BCPC at a CC years ago and finally graduated with an AA in Pre-Pharmacy acquiring a 2.97 through many difficult storms. My grades are as follows:

General Biology I = C
General Biology II = C
General Chemistry I = C
General Chemistry II = C
Organic Chemistry I = B
Organic Chemistry II = B
Physics I = C
Physics II =C

I managed to overcome all the obstacles and I am now about to graduate with a B.S. in Psychology at a 3.98 GPA this December. I have also made it a point to take all my electives in different Biology including Neurobiology and Molecular and Cellular Biology and received As in all of them.

I also work full time in the IT field of which I hate with a passion but realize that the bills have to be paid. I am therefore trying to weigh the options of taking a Post-bacc. to prepare for allopathic medical school, which will take me about two years and raise my scores (by how much I don't know). The post-bacc is an evening program and will not interfere with my living conditions. After the post-bacc, I intend to take the MCAT and wait (crossing my fingers).

The SMP on the other hand is an eleven month program and will give me a masters in Physiology. However, I will have to take the MCAT by April 7 or GRE and quit my job in about a year in order to complete the program. This decision will completely distort my financial situation since I will be relying on student loans but if I do well, may place me in Georgetown Medical School.

My question to the members of this board is which path is feasible because despite the grades in my previous coursework, I know I have great potential and all the things that were preventing me from maximizing on my potential are no longer there.

Any advice will be appreciated!

I'm sorry but I'm not following your mathematics,

If you had C's in most of your major sciences, how did you graduate with a 3.98? or is this just one of those trick questions?

Is that you behind that Curtain? Have I been Punk'd ? YOU GUYS , you're too much..

Sorry I'm really not railing on you but some of what you said doesn't add up...

Nevertheless wish you all the best on all your future endeavors just make sure they don't include a Math major ( Sorry I know boo hiss.. I'm in a salty mood 2nite)

Beat me up people I deserve it <g>

 

[budhak0n]

Sorry... forgot to actually toss any of my two cents in there..

Ok I'm NOT an ADCOMM... I'm not a Post Bac Guru... I'm not a Doctor..

I'm a Non trad just like everybody else..

But if you feel your science work was weak first time around, I guess what I could offer as a suggestion is ;

Why don't you consider taking them over and showing that you can do the coursework and Get an A or some other better grade?

Hey I got a C in Scuba.... It's really been bugging me for 22 years now except when I realize that I can dive wrecks and the guy who gave me the C is still swimming around in a pool in the center of Pennsylvania..

THere's no hidden meaning.. it's just all hidden.

 

[docgats]

Thanks for all your response and advice. To clarify a few things:

The 3.98 GPA comes from my current coursework because I was a transfer student therefore I have not yet calculated the overall GPA yet (which will include the GPA from the Associate Degree) as stated in one of my previous posts. I also failed to include my Mathematics grades, Calculus I and II of which I received B and C respectively. I agree that my GPA for the sciences may be a bit low which is why I was contemplating which direction would make me a stronger applicant since I know I am capable of so much more than those Cs I received almost 10 years ago.

I have already spoken to University of Maryland about their post-bacc program and will begin calling other schools including Georgetown to find out what would be the best way to proceed as one OP sugessted.

As far as residency, I am from the DC metropolitan area which has a myriad of good and competitive medical schools thus the need to ensure that I stand out.

Again, your posts are EXTREMELY helpful and are helping me in making my final decision.