Please help me decide psyd vs phd vs masters

[daisies2]

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Hello, sorry if this has been asked before...but i need some help choosing a program, and need some advice from experienced people who have been through this process before. I'm an ex-high school English teacher, and I have been contemplating this career change for a long time... I really want to be a clinical psychologist. Here's my struggle: I live in MN. The U of Minnesota is one of the top research programs in the US, they have a PhD program. I have no problem doing research and teaching..but want to be able to practice in clinic too. They say they will prepare me for clinical work, but is it true? I know i'm at a disadvantage as i don't have a b.s. in psychology. What are my chances of getting accepted if i do some psych pre-reqs & get a decent score on the gre? I dont have any research experience at all. I would be taking the GRE in the next month or two and starting the pre-reqs this fall, for admission next fall. Is this a lost cause or should i give it a shot? they accept abt 5% of applicants. They have research opportunities and cover some/all tuition.

Besides the U of M, there's St. Thomas & St Mary's PsyD programs. The latter is a really respected university, BUT they both have counseling, not clinical degrees. Is there enough overlap, or can i get trained in my internship, to the extent that it wouldnt make a difference?? I really want clinical. Then there's Argosy...they have a nice PsyD clinical program, but i've heard on this site and others that they're not that reputable. AND its expensive! (around 107k) But the program has what i want and maybe i can stand a chance of getting in. I'm not looking for an "easy" way in. I'm a hard worker. I have a 3.91 gpa, and scored in the top 15% in the nation on the teacher licensing exam, i work hard and take my career seriously.

I want some advice from anyone who thinks they can help. Do i stand a chance at the U of M?? Should i try and get research experience somehow, or take a year and finish ALL of the coursework and do well on the GRE & psych GRE then reapply? OR do i stand a chance of going to argosy and getting a respectable job and career..even if i'm in debt 🙁? OR, would the counseling program be better, and can i find a way into a good job? Should I get a masters and work first? The u of m told me it wouldn't necessarily help, and most students have a b.s. in psych.

SO sorry for the long post. But I really need some guidance, I feel so lost and these are important decisions. relocating is near impossible for me, i wish i could. Is the debt and psyd title worth fighting for the phd? Or should i pay for the practical, clinical training and forget the phd?

ANY help is appreciated! If someone was in a similar position and can help please do.😕 THANKS!

Thanks!!!🙂

 

[Ollie123]

The difference between counseling and clinical is not as great as it once was. In the event that you absolutely cannot relocate, the university-based PsyDs may be the only options available if you want to go the doctorate route. U of M would certainly prepare you for licensure, but if your goal is PRIMARILY to be a clinician it is likely not the best choice. I obviously can't say for certainty, but I think its incredibly unlikely you would even get interviewed, let alone admitted without research experience. They certainly wouldn't let you in if you told them that, and even if you were an ideal fit for them its a huge risk banking on being one of the tiny percentage of applicants admitted to a program like that. If you told me you had a 4.0 GPA, a 1600 on the GREs, and a dozen publications in the exact area you wanted to study, I would still recommend against banking on admission to any one school.

My suggestions:
1) Worry less about counseling vs. clinical. Look at what the faculty specialize in and think how that fits with your goals.
2) Think very hard about whether you "need" a doctorate. Do you want your primary activity to be therapy? If so, that in no way requires a doctorate. In fact, many of us discourage those planning on careers of "Therapy and therapy only" from pursuing a doctorate, since the role of the doctoral-level provider is increasingly shifting away from that. Which isn't to say you can't get one, or that there isn't ANY benefit to doing so - but it does mean you could get a master's and do what you want to do, potentially even re-evaluating down the line if your circumstances changed and you still wanted the doctorate.

 

[Pragma]

If you can't relocate, you're going to find it very difficult to successfully complete a doctoral degree. Most people have to relocate for grad school (because fit is the the ultimate deciding factor in admissions) and if you geographically limit yourself for internship, this is akin to shooting yourself in the foot and you can't complete your degree without it. People who are so limited end up taking short-cuts, like enrolling in bad programs (e.g., Argosy) and completing non-accredited internships, which will do you no favors in getting a job and may even close the door to jobs that require APA-accredited training.

You should ask yourself why you want a Ph.D. If all you really want to do is therapy, a Master's would be sufficient and considerably easier.

I think that psycscientist is a little harsh, but echo the general sentiments.

I would not say your chances at getting into a doctoral program are "zero" but they are close to it unless you can get some research experience under your belt. I am sure that even the Psy.D. options in the MSP area would appreciate some research experience on your CV, even just volunteering.

The U of M is likely not going to be an option for you unless you go volunteer in their labs. Also, I am familiar with that program and it is research-focused, and while I know at least one person who went on to do clinical work from there, they weren't keen on their clinical training.

As you are an ex-teacher, you might also consider a school/Ed degree as a way to get into a program, then try to also get some other practica experiences. Never thought I would say that, but it might be worth exploring with your background.

Finally, as it relates to relocation, I also would echo the essence of what psycscientist is saying. But I also say that as someone who a) relocated to graduate school in a major city and b) refused to leave after that. I managed to get an APA-accredited internship and a competitive postdoc. It is possible to do these things, but you have fewer options and it is more stressful. You've got to make yourself more competitive and be a great local networker. I know that there are at least a few internship sites in MSP and surrounding areas, and I would imagine that you could do some networking. In all liklihood, it is better to assume that you will have to move at some point, but I wouldn't say it is impossible. Just don't set yourself up for disappointment.

Oh, and stay away from Argosy if you can.