Please help me in deciding the list of schools that I should apply to

[jchang0218]

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Hello Everyone,

I was doing a research and found out this website. I could really use some assistance with my school list. I fear that I am not too competitive, so I need to cast a wide net. All suggestions are welcomed. Thanks in advance!

GPAs: 2.85 cGPA, 2.85 sGPA, 3.85 gGPA
Undergrad Major: Biology
Graduate Degree: Master of Public Health - Public Health Administration and Policy
DAT: 19 AA / 19 TS / 20 PAT / QR 19 / RC 19
Research: Extensive hours in research and has published article
Other: Current dental practice manager (has been working in dental field for past 4-5 years)

My current list of schools that I'm thinking about applying for:

AT Still University (AZ)
Midwestern University (AZ)
University of Southern California (CA)
Loma Linda (CA)
Western University (CA)
University of Colorado (CO)
University of Connecticut (MA)
LECOM (FL)
NOVA Eastern (FL)
Midwestern University (IL)
Indiana University (IN)
University of Louisville (KY)
University of Kentucky (KY)
University of New England (ME)
University of Maryland (MD)
Boston University (MA)
Tufts University (MA)
University of Detroit Mercy (MI)
University of Michigan (MI)
University of Minnesota (MN) <- resident of MN
AT Still University (MO)
Creighton University (NE)
University of Nevada Las Vegas (NV)
New York University (NY)
Case Western University (OH)
Oregon Health and Science University (OR)
Temple University (PA)
Meharry Medical (TN)
Roseman University (UT)
Texas A & M (TX)
Virginia Commonwealth University (VA)
University of Washington (WA)
West Virginia University (VA)
Marquette U (WI)

I know this is very long list and that's why I need your assistance in adding/removing schools.

Thank you in advance everyone.

 

[Life of Pablo]

If you're not from Connecticut, take off UCONN.

Are you a URM? If so, maybe also apply to Howard. Also, add Touro and UNE.

 

[FeralisExtremum]

Is there an upward trend to your GPA? That would be the biggest area of weakness right now, especially if your graduate coursework didn't include a lot of heavy science courses.

 

[jchang0218]

If you're not from Connecticut, take off UCONN.

Are you a URM? If so, maybe also apply to Howard. Also, add Touro and UNE.

I am not sure if I'm considered URM. Asian though. Most likely not I think

 

[jchang0218]

Is there an upward trend to your GPA? That would be the biggest area of weakness right now, especially if your graduate coursework didn't include a lot of heavy science courses.

my freshman and sophomore years were bad, but I ended up getting all A's and B's in my junior and senior years. The only problem is... during my Sophomore year, I took Ochem which I had C-. I know a lot of school asks for C or better to be considered... is that going to be an issue? Graduate coursework did include upper class science courses as well. Which school I should take off from the list? It is a lot of money, and would love to remove some.

 

[FeralisExtremum]

my freshman and sophomore years were bad, but I ended up getting all A's and B's in my junior and senior years. Graduate coursework did include upper class science courses as well. Which school I should take off from the list? It is a lot of money, and would love to remove some.

Can you go into a bit more detail how many upper level science classes you had to take as part of your program and what your performance in those courses was? That's going to be a major factor.

Also, what state are you from? That's going to affect your chances at a few of the schools above.

 

[jchang0218]

Can you go into a bit more detail how many upper level science classes you had to take as part of your program and what your performance in those courses was? That's going to be a major factor.

Also, what state are you from? That's going to affect your chances at a few of the schools above.

I am from Minnesota. And you want more detail on upper level science class from undergrad or grad course work? I definitely can go into some detail.

 

[FeralisExtremum]

I am from Minnesota. And you want more detail on upper level science class from undergrad or grad course work? I definitely can go into some detail.

The grad course work (your GPA there is pretty strong and it will get a lot of focus). Off the top of my head you can eliminate Texas - they're not OOS friendly at all.

 

[jchang0218]

The grad course work (your GPA there is pretty strong and it will get a lot of focus). Off the top of my head you can eliminate Texas - they're not OOS friendly at all.

Sorry, I should say that I had 1 upper class science in my Public Health. I got A- for Epidemiology. I focused on administration and policy, so didn't take much science courses.. Not sure if statistic will be considered, but I got A- as well. Also, in Undergrad, although I did bad in my Freshman, Sophomore, I did do better in my Junior/Senior upper level science classes such as Cell Bio / Molecular Bio / Anatomy etc. I got at least B+ for all upper level science classes in undergrad.

My concern is... I didn't retake ochem which I had C- in the class. Is that going to be a problem?

 

[Life of Pablo]

Sorry, I should say that I had 1 upper class science in my Public Health. I got A- for Epidemiology. I focused on administration and policy, so didn't take much science courses.. Not sure if statistic will be considered, but I got A- as well. Also, in Undergrad, although I did bad in my Freshman, Sophomore, I did do better in my Junior/Senior upper level science classes such as Cell Bio / Molecular Bio / Anatomy etc. I got at least B+ for all upper level science classes in undergrad.

My concern is... I didn't retake ochem which I had C- in the class. Is that going to be a problem?

It might be a problem because a lot of schools don't count C-'s.

 

[FeralisExtremum]

My concern is... I didn't retake ochem which I had C- in the class. Is that going to be a problem?

Yes, I believe most schools want a grade of C or above in the core pre-reqs, and they don't consider a C- as meeting that threshold.

So the grad GPA will help a bit, but since it wasn't very science heavy in terms of course load, you'll want to apply to schools that give special focus to how you performed in your last 2 years of undergrad (I believe Oklahoma does this). It's difficult to say how you'll do this cycle - the undergrad GPA overall is really low (what was your GPA year by year?) and the upward trend will help it, but it's still under a 3.0. The DAT is just under average for matriculation, although it may be fine for schools with lower averages.

 

[shellsterpie]

I am not sure if I'm considered URM. Asian though. Most likely not I think

Asians aren't considered URMs (speaking as one lol).

 

[ColoradoTeeth]

Colorado is pretty tough if you're not from CO or another WICHE state

 

[jchang0218]

It might be a problem because a lot of schools don't count C-'s.

So I'm guessing I just need to call schools and ask if c- would be okay..? or should I retake it?

 

[jchang0218]

Colorado is pretty tough if you're not from CO or another WICHE state

I'm actually thinking of moving to Oregon or Washington to get that WICHE state benefit... would that help?

 

[cooliyak]

Colorado is pretty tough if you're not from CO or another WICHE state

But not impossible. I was an OOS/non-WICHE and I got in. I think the program is good enough to at least try.

 

[cooliyak]

I'm actually thinking of moving to Oregon or Washington to get that WICHE state benefit... would that help?

No. Moving to those states will only help you with those specific state schools. WICHE really only benefits the people from WICHE states without a dental school. That is the whole purpose of it. You would benefit more moving to Arizona, Wyoming, Idaho, etc.

 

[jchang0218]

Yes, I believe most schools want a grade of C or above in the core pre-reqs, and they don't consider a C- as meeting that threshold.

So the grad GPA will help a bit, but since it wasn't very science heavy in terms of course load, you'll want to apply to schools that give special focus to how you performed in your last 2 years (I believe Oklahoma does this). It's difficult to say how you'll do this cycle - the undergrad GPA overall is really low (what was your GPA year by year?) and the upward trend will help it, but it's still under a 3. The DAT is just under average for matriculation, although it may be fine for schools with lower averages.

I can tell you right now that Biostatistic and Epidemiology are probably it for grad science classes. Most of the other classes were like Public Health Law, Public Health System, Management in Health Services, etc.

For my undergrad, Freshman and Sophomore year, my average GPA (overall) was around 2.4 - 2.5 ish. For my Junior and Senior year, average GPA (overall) was around 3.4 - 3.5 ish. Of course my junior / senior year includes most of upper level science classes (Cell Bio / Genetics / Molecular Bio / Anatomy / and some lower level science classes retakes).

Not sure what I can do... do you suggest taking DAT once again and get over 21? I simply don't have much time unfortunately..

 

[jchang0218]

No. Moving to those states will only help you with those specific state schools. WICHE really only benefits the people from WICHE states without a dental school. That is the whole purpose of it. You would benefit more moving to Arizona, Wyoming, Idaho, etc.

Ah I see... do I even have hope with my current stats getting any interviews from dental schools? I simply don't want to waste lots of money if I have no hope.... you know 🙁

 

[Life of Pablo]

No. Moving to those states will only help you with those specific state schools. WICHE really only benefits the people from WICHE states without a dental school. That is the whole purpose of it. You would benefit more moving to Arizona, Wyoming, Idaho, etc.

Oregon and Washington are classified as WICHE states. You can't say they have a preference for WICHE states and then exclude like 5 states that are clearly WICHE states.

Heres a list if you're wondering:

WICHE Region | Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education

 

[cooliyak]

Oregon and Washington are classified as WICHE states. You can't say they have a preference for WICHE states and then exclude like 5 states that are clearly WICHE states.

Heres a list if you're wondering:

WICHE Region | Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education

Actually, that's exactly how they do it. The exact wording for the WICHE program says that they will give funding for students to go to programs in a different state "if a professional healthcare program is not available at one of their in-state public institutions." AKA, you can get funding to go to another state as long as your state doesn't have one. If you are from a WICHE state that has a dental school, but you don't get into your state school, you are out of luck with WICHE funding.

 

[ColoradoTeeth]

I really don't know the specifics so don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure that moving to a state doesn't immediately give you residency benefits--a lot of states require at least 5 year residency before you get any benefits. That being said, your grad GPA is good and your DAT is around average, so if you really like a particular program you should apply.

 

[Life of Pablo]

Actually, that's exactly how they do it. The exact wording for the WICHE program says that they will give funding for students to go to programs in a different state "if a professional healthcare program is not available at one of their in-state public institutions." AKA, you can get funding to go to another state as long as your state doesn't have one. If you are from a WICHE state that has a dental school, but you don't get into your state school, you are out of luck with WICHE funding.

Yeah you may not get WICHE funding but they still prefer applicants from WICHE states over other regions.

 

[jchang0218]

I really don't know the specifics so don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure that moving to a state doesn't immediately give you residency benefits--a lot of states require at least 5 year residency before you get any benefits. That being said, your grad GPA is good and your DAT is around average, so if you really like a particular program you should apply.

What are some schools that you think I have chances in?

 

[jchang0218]

Yeah you may not get WICHE funding but they still prefer applicants from WICHE states over other regions.

Yeah, that's what I heard. I heard WICHE state schools prefer WICHE state applicants over other regions..

 

[Life of Pablo]

Yeah, that's what I heard. I heard WICHE state schools prefer WICHE state applicants over other regions..

You are correct. It's similar to how schools like UCONN prefer New England residents over others.

 

[ColoradoTeeth]

What are some schools that you think I have chances in?

I'm not going to be much help with a list for you, that's something you need to find out by doing some research. I'd start with http://dental-schools.startclass.com to get an idea for some schools within your stat range; also, always add your in-state, a few reach, and a few safety

 

[jchang0218]

You are correct. It's similar to how schools like UCONN prefer New England residents over others.

I really want to go OHSU / UW / UMN / VCU / Marquette. Those are my top 5 choices...do you think I have any chance in any of them at all?

 

[jchang0218]

I'm not going to be much help with a list for you, that's something you need to find out by doing some research. I'd start with http://dental-schools.startclass.com to get an idea for some schools within your stat range; also, always add your in-state, a few reach, and a few safety

Yeah..I already looked at that website and created excel spreadsheet for my own reference...but I am not sure what would be my safety... if there is one of course

 

[ColoradoTeeth]

Yeah..I already looked at that website and created excel spreadsheet for my own reference...but I am not sure what would be my safety... if there is one of course

Use this for OOS schools OOS Friendly Schools List from ADEA Guide

 

[Life of Pablo]

Yeah..I already looked at that website and created excel spreadsheet for my own reference...but I am not sure what would be my safety... if there is one of course

Unfortunately I wouldn't really say you have any safeties. Your best bet is to apply to private schools which tend to be less competitive. Getting into a public school as an OOS resident is going to be difficult.

 

[ColoradoTeeth]

I'd also just take out Texas schools and UConn, you have to have pretty crazy stats to get into those schools as an OOS applicant

 

[jchang0218]

Unfortunately I wouldn't really say you have any safeties. Your best bet is to apply to private schools which tend to be less competitive. Getting into a public school as an OOS resident is going to be difficult.

That's what I thought. I don't think there are any safety for me at the moment.... Having to study and raising a child and work at the same time is just crazy..

 

[ColoradoTeeth]

That's what I thought. I don't think there are any safety for me at the moment.... Having to study and raising a child and work at the same time is just crazy..

Just write a kickass PS and I think you'll have a shot somewhere if you apply broadly--a lot of private schools. People on this site are more than happy to edit PS and help with the process so don't be afraid to reach out.

 

[cooliyak]

Yeah you may not get WICHE funding but they still prefer applicants from WICHE states over other regions.

That is probably more school specific than you think. Since we were talking about WA as an example, I went to their website and this is what I found:
"The School of Dentistry is a state supported institution and participates in the student exchange program provided by the Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education(WICHE) which supports students from western states without dental schools (Alaska, Arizona, Hawaii, Montana, New Mexico, North Dakota, and Wyoming)." [emphasis added]... so once again... yeah, that's exactly how they do it.

 

[plusalpha]

Heard UW is also very OOS-unfriendly

 

[Life of Pablo]

That is probably more school specific than you think. Since we were talking about WA as an example, I went to their website and this is what I found:
"The School of Dentistry is a state supported institution and participates in the student exchange program provided by the Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education(WICHE) which supports students from western states without dental schools (Alaska, Arizona, Hawaii, Montana, New Mexico, North Dakota, and Wyoming)." [emphasis added]... so once again... yeah, that's exactly how they do it.

We were talking about Colorado, not Washington. You can't take one school's policy and apply that to a completely different school. It is a well known fact that Washington is a highly OOS unfriendly even to many western states. However, Colorado accepts students each year from states like California/Oregon/Washington etc

 

[jchang0218]

Just write a kickass PS and I think you'll have a shot somewhere if you apply broadly--a lot of private schools. People on this site are more than happy to edit PS and help with the process so don't be afraid to reach out.

I already got my PS revised by multiple professors and advisors from my school and some of the dentist at my practice that I work with. I got multiple Recommendation Letters from multiple dentists and professors... so that's not a big issue...

I'll remove Texas, UCONN, and how about U of Colorado / UNLV / U Kentucky / U Louisville?

 

[jchang0218]

Heard UW is also very OOS-unfriendly

Oh is it? darn it... Got it. Thank you!

 

[Life of Pablo]

I already got my PS revised by multiple professors and advisors from my school and some of the dentist at my practice that I work with. I got multiple Recommendation Letters from multiple dentists and professors... so that's not a big issue...

I'll remove Texas, UCONN, and how about U of Colorado / UNLV / U Kentucky / U Louisville?

Keep Colorado (if you are moving to the Oregon/Washington like you said you were), UNLV, UK, and UL.

 

[ColoradoTeeth]

I already got my PS revised by multiple professors and advisors from my school and some of the dentist at my practice that I work with. I got multiple Recommendation Letters from multiple dentists and professors... so that's not a big issue...

I'll remove Texas, UCONN, and how about U of Colorado / UNLV / U Kentucky / U Louisville?

Keep UNLV and Louisville. I'm not totally sure about Kentucky, but I think it's slightly OOS-unfriendly. For Colorado, depends on what your interpretation of WICHE is (as above). If you like CO then apply. From what I know, WICHE-supporting schools give emphasis to students in the region with and without dental schools, with more emphasis given to those without (they basically like students from the general region, but mostly those from states without their own D school).

 

[jchang0218]

Keep UNLV and Louisville. I'm not totally sure about Kentucky, but I think it's slightly OOS-unfriendly. For Colorado, depends on what your interpretation of WICHE is (as above). If you like CO then apply. From what I know, WICHE-supporting schools give emphasis to students in the region with and without dental schools, with more emphasis given to those without (they basically like students from the general region, but mostly those from states without their own D school).

So far, this is my list then.

AT Still University (AZ and MO)
Boston University
Case Western
Creighton
LECOM
Loma Linda
Marquette
Meharry
Midwestern (AZ and IL)
NYU
NOVA
OHSU (I had chance to meet with admission person and she mentioned I should be okay with 19 DAT)
Roseman
Temple
Tufts
U of Colorado (If I do move to WICHE state)
U of Detroit Mercy
U of Louisville
U of Maryland
U of Michigan
U of Minnesota
UNLV
UNE
USC
VCU
Western U
U of Pacific Arthur
Howard
Toulo

and maybe West Virginia U?

Thoughts? Thanks again everyone for helping me out with this... I really felt lost..

 

[Life of Pablo]

So far, this is my list then.

AT Still University (AZ and MO)
Boston University
Case Western
Creighton
LECOM
Loma Linda
Marquette
Meharry
Midwestern (AZ and IL)
NYU
NOVA
OHSU (I had chance to meet with admission person and she mentioned I should be okay with 19 DAT)
Roseman
Temple
Tufts
U of Colorado (If I do move to WICHE state)
U of Detroit Mercy
U of Louisville
U of Maryland
U of Michigan
U of Minnesota
UNLV
UNE
USC
VCU
Western U
U of Pacific Arthur
Howard
Toulo

and maybe West Virginia U?

Thoughts? Thanks again everyone for helping me out with this... I really felt lost..

I wouldn't apply to Howard if you aren't a URM. I also might take off University of Michigan (highly competitive).

 

[jchang0218]

I wouldn't apply to Howard if you aren't a URM. I also might take off University of Michigan (highly competitive).

Thanks for the advice. I will take both schools out.

 

[ColoradoTeeth]

So far, this is my list then.

AT Still University (AZ and MO)
Boston University
Case Western
Creighton
LECOM
Loma Linda
Marquette
Meharry
Midwestern (AZ and IL)
NYU
NOVA
OHSU (I had chance to meet with admission person and she mentioned I should be okay with 19 DAT)
Roseman
Temple
Tufts
U of Colorado (If I do move to WICHE state)
U of Detroit Mercy
U of Louisville
U of Maryland
U of Michigan
U of Minnesota
UNLV
UNE
USC
VCU
Western U
U of Pacific Arthur
Howard
Toulo

and maybe West Virginia U?

Thoughts? Thanks again everyone for helping me out with this... I really felt lost..

Not sure about your financials, but NYU and UoP are pretty pricey

 

[jchang0218]

Not sure about your financials, but NYU and UoP are pretty pricey

Financials are not a issue at the moment.. I am willing to spend 100K a year if necessary..

 

[cooliyak]

We were talking about Colorado, not Washington. You can't take one school's policy and apply that to a completely different school. It is a well known fact that Washington is a highly OOS unfriendly even to many western states. However, Colorado accepts students each year from states like California/Oregon/Washington etc

My comments were originally about Colorado, but when moving to Washington or Oregon was mentioned, I switched over. Guess you didn't follow. But if you want to talk about Colorado, I can offer my anecdote that when I applied, I was told I was applying as a non-WICHE student even though I was from WA. In my class, we had tons of students from AZ and NM, a few from AK, some from MT, but none from any other WICHE state that has a dental school. I looked up in my old ADEA book what the stats were for CO and it confirmed that hardly any students came from WICHE states that had dental schools. A fair amount from non-WICHE states tho. Maybe it's changed, I don't know since I don't have the new book, but generally when schools say they prefer WICHE states, they are not including the WICHE states that have dental schools. But, like I said, it is school specific. Also, I was just using WA as an example because I thought that school is what we were talking about.

 

[Life of Pablo]

Also, I might add UCSF. I know it's a competitive school, but they REALLY emphasize diversity (they're the only dental school that asks you about your gender and sexuality lol) and you're nontraditional and have a child, so if you write your personal statement correctly you will stand out.

Edit: UCSF also doesn't have an instate preference.

 

[jchang0218]

My comments were originally about Colorado, but when moving to Washington or Oregon was mentioned, I switched over. Guess you didn't follow. But if you want to talk about Colorado, I can offer my anecdote that when I applied, I was told I was applying as a non-WICHE student even though I was from WA. In my class, we had tons of students from AZ and NM, a few from AK, some from MT, but none from any other WICHE state that has a dental school. I looked up in my old ADEA book what the stats were for CO and it confirmed that hardly any students came from WICHE states that had dental schools. A fair amount from non-WICHE states tho. Maybe it's changed, I don't know since I don't have the new book, but generally when schools say they prefer WICHE states, they are not including the WICHE states that have dental schools. But like it can also be school specific. Also, I was just using WA as an example because I thought that school is what we were talking about.

Thanks for your input. I really appreciate your help. I will really need to look into this WICHE benefit more carefully and make sure I have correct information. I will definitely look at the website as well as call different states!

 

[jchang0218]

Also, I might add UCSF. I know it's a competitive school, but they REALLY emphasize diversity (they're the only dental school that asks you about your gender and sexuality lol) and you're nontraditional and have a child, so if you write your personal statement correctly you will stand out.

Edit: UCSF also doesn't have an instate preference.

That is good to know. Thank you!