please help. poor reference from supervisor: what do you do?

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Hopey1984

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edited because i'm getting paranoid this will be traced/found online or something.


thanks so much for listening. i know this is quite the ramble but i am pretty heartbroken and scared right now.🙁
 
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Ask if they would be willing to write you a positive letter. Worse comes to worse, if they aren't willing to write a positive letter on your behalf then get LOR from someone else. Or do you not have anyone else that can write you a letter?

Cheers,

WADO
 
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Thanks a lot for your reply. 😳
Yes, thankfully I have other positive references.

But I just don't know how to explain not having a good reference from him? This was a year long project. He even wants to publish my work yet was unhappy with my work in lab.

Worst case scenario do I just pretend I never did a thesis? Or be honest with people and say "well I did this and I don't have a reference from him because...."?
 
How soon would you need him to write a letter of recommendation? Do you have any time to rebuild the relationship?

I think your best option is to schedule a time to talk, and have a frank, honest, and mature discussion regarding your performance, strengths and weaknesses of your performance, and strategies for improvement. This would be the time to divulge any personal reasons why you have been unable to live up to expectations. He will respect the fact that you're willing to talk to him upfront about this. Don't pretend you didn't have a thesis. If you really have a good reason for your performance, you shouldn't be too worried about this. However, if the reason is because you were lazy ( be honest with yourself) then perhaps you need to reevaluate the way you are approaching things.
 
THanks for the feedback.
(edited)
 
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sorry to hear your troubles. i was in a similar situation, see my thread here, the best solution i see for now is the 2nd to last post in that thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=706033&highlight=whiteshadodw

just like you, my data is in publication in two manuscripts. of course, i already talked to her and she didn't seem to budge from her position. my PI and I aren't very close, at least on a personal level although i get plenty of professional praise (according to her its very rare to have 2 pubs as an undergrad/before your BS). HOWEVER, i feel like my PI is going through a ridiculous amount of stress (grants aren't getting approved, and even grant extensions are having trouble, our only grad student is involved with some sexual harassment in our lab, and the other undergrads on this project don't do much so the data is only coming from my PI+postdoc+me). all that is lab politics essentially...its good to get to know your PI on a personal level i guess so you know if they're stressed or not. maybe he was just stressed or something

in any case. if you have a "thesis advisor" you'd be able to get a letter from them as i pointed to in that one post. good luck, hope things turn out well.
 
OP, calm down. You are slowly edging to being an adult, when you have to deal with unfair situations all the time. This is not the end of your career, even if your advisor refuses to write you a letter of recommendation. Actually, if you have publishable data and are going to be one of the authors, your advisor will most likely speak well of you professionally because the quality of your work (and you as a person) will reflect back on his mentoring.

Now, that being said, you should definitely schedule a sit down meeting with him, and as someone else said, speak frankly. Be HUMBLE. I cannot stress this enough. No matter what you think, the fact that he wrote "we can talk about this when I return" is a positive sign that your relationship can be salvaged. It is not an "F you" signal. If he really just wanted to do that, he would not have bothered to invite you to talk with him; PI's have many time-consuming and stressful things so meeting with them is a privilege. Do not use the attitude that you have here in your posts: a combination of self-righteousness, hysteria, and indignation. While those feelings may or may not be warranted, all they will do is harm you further in your interactions with your PI.

Ultimately, the evaluation that is stressing you out is for your eyes only, and the only thing that adcom's will see is your final grade in the class and your thesis advisor's letter of recommendation if he writes you one. In fact, even your final grade isn't that important as long as you repair your relations and have a good letter. If you really do impress him in the next few weeks, he can always say in his letter "I gave him a bad grade, but he was actually an outstanding lab contributor and I would change the grade if I could."

Not having a letter from your advisor is a big red flag if you want to get into an MD-PhD program, which is why you should do everything possible to salvage your relationship. But again, even if you don't get a letter from him, you will still be able to get into grad/med schools if you explain your situation to your academic dean or whoever is writing your committee letter. It will just be a harder road, which is why you need to do all you can to repair relations.

Take home message: be humble, acknowledge your mistakes (and don't try to pin blame on him, even if it's deserved because doing that won't help you in any way), ask what you can do to help publish the data, and move on. Good luck.
 
OP, calm down. You are slowly edging to being an adult, when you have to deal with unfair situations all the time. This is not the end of your career, even if your advisor refuses to write you a letter of recommendation. Actually, if you have publishable data and are going to be one of the authors, your advisor will most likely speak well of you professionally because the quality of your work (and you as a person) will reflect back on his mentoring.

Now, that being said, you should definitely schedule a sit down meeting with him, and as someone else said, speak frankly. Be HUMBLE. I cannot stress this enough. No matter what you think, the fact that he wrote "we can talk about this when I return" is a positive sign that your relationship can be salvaged. It is not an "F you" signal. If he really just wanted to do that, he would not have bothered to invite you to talk with him; PI's have many time-consuming and stressful things so meeting with them is a privilege. Do not use the attitude that you have here in your posts: a combination of self-righteousness, hysteria, and indignation. While those feelings may or may not be warranted, all they will do is harm you further in your interactions with your PI.

Ultimately, the evaluation that is stressing you out is for your eyes only, and the only thing that adcom's will see is your final grade in the class and your thesis advisor's letter of recommendation if he writes you one. In fact, even your final grade isn't that important as long as you repair your relations and have a good letter. If you really do impress him in the next few weeks, he can always say in his letter "I gave him a bad grade, but he was actually an outstanding lab contributor and I would change the grade if I could."

Not having a letter from your advisor is a big red flag if you want to get into an MD-PhD program, which is why you should do everything possible to salvage your relationship. But again, even if you don't get a letter from him, you will still be able to get into grad/med schools if you explain your situation to your academic dean or whoever is writing your committee letter. It will just be a harder road, which is why you need to do all you can to repair relations.

Take home message: be humble, acknowledge your mistakes (and don't try to pin blame on him, even if it's deserved because doing that won't help you in any way), ask what you can do to help publish the data, and move on. Good luck.
Thank you so much for your detailed feedback and advice. You are spot on on...everything. (I hang my head in shame at how well you perceived my tone: hysteria and self-righteous indignation, ugh, yeah🙁:scared:😳 ...that's me, alright. probably my 2 worst characteristics, (hey, we all have some negative traits, right? 😳 and these are mine, that i know i have to work on..😳) but they are certainnly ones that are NOT helpful and in fact huge hindrances in professional and academic settings.

I need more time to digest this, but will be meeting with my supervisor in the next 2 weeks. He is on vacation now.

I also need to figure out how to approach the issue of publication. ie, If he does not want me in his lab anymore, how will my work be used? Does he still even *want* to publish it? (Last I knew, told my thesis advisor he did...)

Any advice on how to humbly ask if he still plans to use it for publication?
 
sorry to hear your troubles. i was in a similar situation, see my thread here, the best solution i see for now is the 2nd to last post in that thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=706033&highlight=whiteshadodw

just like you, my data is in publication in two manuscripts. of course, i already talked to her and she didn't seem to budge from her position. my PI and I aren't very close, at least on a personal level although i get plenty of professional praise (according to her its very rare to have 2 pubs as an undergrad/before your BS). HOWEVER, i feel like my PI is going through a ridiculous amount of stress (grants aren't getting approved, and even grant extensions are having trouble, our only grad student is involved with some sexual harassment in our lab, and the other undergrads on this project don't do much so the data is only coming from my PI+postdoc+me). all that is lab politics essentially...its good to get to know your PI on a personal level i guess so you know if they're stressed or not. maybe he was just stressed or something

in any case. if you have a "thesis advisor" you'd be able to get a letter from them as i pointed to in that one post. good luck, hope things turn out well.

Thank you so much for your response and support, I really appreciate it. I'm sorry to hear you can relate somewhat. Heh, my PI is *always* stressed and on edge, but that is because he works more than anyone I know. And..Yes, I do in fact have an advisor who said she would write me a good reference..🙄
 
I am also interested in a MD/PhD Program. I researched at SUNY Downstate in 2008 during the summer and I researched with her during the summer 2008 and she promised me to write me a l.o.r but at that time I was getting ready to go to atlanta and she said she was going to write me a LOR but when I finally got in touch with her in 2010 since she disappeared from that lab (she was working on he PhD and she really didnt like the lab she was in nor the head PI) and I didnt work with the PI at all she stated that she cant write me a LOR because she doesnt know my research potential. The only thing is she promised she was going to write me one also and we found results as well and she prob published what we worked at the lab. I then researched in Ghana summer 2009 and my mentor there said he will write me a LOR. Now im currently a HHMI Scholar and I been working in this lab since Oct but my mentor is also my teacher for two of my science classes. Recently I asked her can she write me a strong lor and she said she can but it won't be strong enough since i have not been in the lab long enough. I worked fall semester 3hours a week since that was her schedule and this semester i worked 6hours a week but sometimes I put in more lab hours at least 10 hours a week but that almost made me cry 🙁 esp since im in two of her classes as well. She should know if I am research potential or not and I only first place in my poster as well as I am a Merck Fellow. I dont know what I should do at this point and if I should even apply MD/PhD because I am going to not have two lors from two different research facilities. Any advice would truly help but I am praying on it🙂
 
My first suggestion is to track down the person at SUNY who first said she would right you a letter (whoever she is - if she's a grad student she'd likely still be at SUNY but in another lab..). Since you wouldn't want your LOR coming from a grad student (not really the authority that you're looking for), you could try to work it out so that she could write the letter but the PI that didn't know you well could sign off on it... something I've seen worked out before.

Secondly, it sounds as though you have a letter from your Ghana research, yes?

And thirdly, why not ask to have a meeting with your current PI, gather your thoughts coherently, talk with her about your research goals, how you feel you've been doing in the lab, and then see if she would write you a positive letter. Even if she thinks it won't be "strong enough," if it is a positive letter that just says you haven't been there all that long, it may still be a good addition. Have you done any independent research in her lab? If not, just 1-200 hrs of working on someone else's project, then you may not feel the need to get that last recommendation from her - unless, again, you didn't work out a way to get a 2nd recommendation elsewhere.
 
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