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Please post anonymously if possible. And someone needs to forward this list to the right person to take the right action to shut these places.....
Please list the AP/CP training programs which need to shut down. .
- Thread starter redapple123
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Oh for fuk's sake- not this again.
Did you and that substance character hook up this weekend and chat?
This is a fuqing stupid idea, it's been raised before on this declining forum, and it won't serve any purpose.
And don't feed me this bull**** that such a "list" will somehow help medical students either. Unless you are willing to provide your real name, title, and institution name, your opinion of any program, as an anonymous poster, carries no weight- especially when proposing to create yet another list of supposed shi!ty programs.
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Yeah, nucking and I disagree on some stuff, but agree this idea is rather silly. For one, if the old white people who run the ABP and CAP even know this forum exists, they almost certainly don't care what's said on here short of overt cheating on the boards. Second, an anonymous internet forum is not the medium in which to seriously try to advance a huge change such as the number of residency programs. Also agree med students should ignore any such list. Don't let an n of 1 or 2 form an opinion about a place. While it could be right, could also just be a single disgruntled, sh#t resident with a internet connection.
What's been done before (and is a much better thing in my view) is for people to post their specific, positive experiences with their residency program, to encourage applicants to go and see for themselves. There ARE a limited number of quality applicants, some of whom do come on here as MS3 and MS4 students.
What's been done before (and is a much better thing in my view) is for people to post their specific, positive experiences with their residency program, to encourage applicants to go and see for themselves. There ARE a limited number of quality applicants, some of whom do come on here as MS3 and MS4 students.
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All of them!
Signed,
Thrombus
Signed,
Thrombus
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All of them, although that isnt practical in the current political environment.
So I would suggest you keep 1-2 in each geographic region open.
Say 4 in the West, 4 or so in New England, 2 in the South and 2 in the Midwest.
Probably would leave:
Brigham
Mass Gen
Hopkins
UPitt
UPenn
Emory
Duke
WashU in St. Louis
Baylor
UWash in Seattle
Stanford
UCSF
1 join Military training location
would keep the fellowship options (maybe 3 slots total?) in NYC but shutter all the AP/CP programs.
relatively intact from what they are now and just shutter all the others. You keep places like UChicago, NW, Yale, Dartmouth, Georgetown, UCLA etc with 1 lone spot that is a research track? Like a combined PhD/PostDoc thing that does NOT lead to board certification maybe? Dunno.
So I would suggest you keep 1-2 in each geographic region open.
Say 4 in the West, 4 or so in New England, 2 in the South and 2 in the Midwest.
Probably would leave:
Brigham
Mass Gen
Hopkins
UPitt
UPenn
Emory
Duke
WashU in St. Louis
Baylor
UWash in Seattle
Stanford
UCSF
1 join Military training location
would keep the fellowship options (maybe 3 slots total?) in NYC but shutter all the AP/CP programs.
relatively intact from what they are now and just shutter all the others. You keep places like UChicago, NW, Yale, Dartmouth, Georgetown, UCLA etc with 1 lone spot that is a research track? Like a combined PhD/PostDoc thing that does NOT lead to board certification maybe? Dunno.
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Programs that consistently have low board passage rates. I dont know how much power ACGME has in regards to this though.
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This thread makes me very angry. Just concentrate on doing the best you can in your own residency/fellowship training program instead of worrying about other programs. Sure, may be difficult getting a position after training, but that's life. Deal with it, or just don't go into Pathology.
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Based on my expert opinion, let's just say that NYC is not a good place to work and learn for the purposes of post graduate medical education in Pathology. In terms of the cases that you get to see, it's nothing compared to what actually happens in the world of medicine. On top of the crappy education and over worked grossing technician job, you are basically dealing with wacky and whack sexist egos, crazy people, racist transplants, and the likes, and people who want to take advantage of your labor while not providing your with any sort of legal protection. There are no unions that represent your value to the labor force within the hospital in most NY programs. On top of that, these programs are so politically charged that they will hire any tom, dick, or harry that will do their bidding without regard to their actual qualifications or record. It's ridiculous but that's the state of affairs and lack of responsible oversight at most of the programs, hence, the whining on this forum.
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If you don' t like things in your residency, talk to your program director and DIO and try to fix it. Give them 18 months if you have that much time to give. If no response, then just give the program all "1's" or the lowest possible score on the annual ACGME survey and watch the fireworks....Or talk to the new ACGME CLER team visitors when they are in your hospital. That would be a surprise for leadership I am sure. Good luck.
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While LADoc can usually be relied upon to provide the most right-wing slant on any issue, for what it's worth, I kind of like his list too
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While LADoc can usually be relied upon to provide the most right-wing slant on any issue, for what it's worth, I kind of like his list too
It is hilarious. I laugh every time I read it.
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And UWash-Seattle? Ummm...not so fast! But the pickings are slim in the NW.
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Really? You're disputing UW? What west coast program would you trade it for?
Conemaugh is done as of June 30 2013.
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Yes I am. It's a solid program but it is not premier as UCSF and Stanford on the West coast. Now Stanford...that's an interesting story these days...lots of discussion about the internal upheaval at last years' USCAP...wonder if things have stabilized.
And to those who send me private messages...I delete them without responding.
And to those who send me private messages...I delete them without responding.
I interviewed at most of these places 2 years ago. UPitt did not fill last year. UPenn didn't fill last two years...had 2 unfilled spots last year. Baylor had 4 unfilled spots 2 years ago. Never heard anybody saying great things about Duke. Not many fellowships at Duke, and it is considered an average program at best.
I do agree with LADoc about BWH, MGH, Hopkins, UW, UCSF, WashU, and Stanford. They are all very strong programs.
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Okay, sure - but Stanford and UCSF are both already on that list. I thought you were suggesting that there was another west coast program that you'd add instead of UW.
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Can we stop acting like LADOC's (anyone else's for that matter) arbitrary list of the only programs in the country that shouldn't be shut down, which reflect his impressions from doing residency about 10 years ago and which he posted at least half in jest, is a serious reflection of reality? Or that by going on a 4 hour interview as a medical student you were able to discern a program's "strength," or that a program's success in filling has any meaning at all?
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I initially thought this was some sort of joke...
When I realized it was an actual amazon ad (and apparently this company makes "IMG friendly" lists for most specialty areas) it just made me mad that someone else came up with this idea first and is making $10 a pop. Wow.
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Wow - I cannot believe this exists. Has anyone seen the list? I'd (almost) pay $10 to see who's on there.
There are web forums and bittorrent groups for FMGs dedicated to exchanging information about passing USMLE exams, sharing bootleg Kaplan materials, getting a residency, and so forth. Typically, these people pirate all their materials, but there might be some poor suckers who'd pay money for a list.
Proceed with caution: http://www.usmleforum.com/forum/index.php?forum=1
Proceed with caution: http://www.usmleforum.com/forum/index.php?forum=1
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I teach some path modules at Harvard, where several students have told me they haven't paid a cent for any of their USMLE material. A few even have bootleg versions of numerous textbooks in pdf format. Interestingly, they ALL frequent usmleforum.com.
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Given the level of piracy that goes on I'm guessing that the total revenue from this list on Amazon is going to be around $10-20 (less Amazon's commission of course) 🙂.
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Since I'm feeling charitable, let me save everyone a few bucks and also answer the poster's original question about which programs should be closed at the same time
Here's how to spot an "IMG friendly" program:
1) They will be in a miserable location (think somewhere very cold like Buffalo or Syracuse), somewhere very dangerous (like Memphis), or somewhere really dull out in the mid-west (think Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, etc)
2) There will be minimal residents so you will always be on service rotations (think many of the smaller programs in NY & NJ, etc)
3) You will probably not get much preview time and you may not even get to see your cases being signed out (Memphis again)
4) When you are not grossing, the teaching will be horrible and will likely include repetitive lessons in how to deal with people with personality disorders (aka how to survive with malignant attendings) (think GWU, etc)
5) The facilities will be horrible
6) Your book allowance will be a pittance. Think less than $500
7) They will probably take most, if not all, of their residents out of the match. If not, then they probably consistently have unfilled positions year after year.
8) The number one way to spot an IMG friendly program though is…. wait for it … look at the resident list and see whether most of the residents are IMGs and DOs (astonishing I know).
Any program meeting several of these criteria is definitely a serious candidate for closure in my book.
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As an entering medical student interested in pathology, could somebody catch me up on this crisis it seems like you guys are talking about?
I'm really amazed that someone joined SDN simply to post this one comment to call out some programs by name. Nice.
Wait--no, I'm not amazed.
As a FMG (caribbean) I pre-matched at a program that fulfilled criteria 1,2,4,5,6,7 and 8 I can say whoever wrote that was pretty accurate. (We had plenty of preview time, but that was probably cause there were only 12,000 surgical/year. If the volume increased I am pretty sure we could satisfy them all! So, really, great list.)
