Please Sign This To Protect Our Student Loans

[PharmTech8241]

Starting next year, graduate student loans will no longer be subsidized. This will change make graduate students responsible for interest on all of their loans, while they are in school. With the innovation and new education demands of the 21st century, the government should be working to make graduate school more affordable.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/restore-subsidies-graduate-student-loans/TtNGQfHG

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[DrTacoElf]

signed

 

[IMSingular]

Starting next year, graduate student loans will no longer be subsidized. This will change make graduate students responsible for interest on all of their loans, while they are in school. With the innovation and new education demands of the 21st century, the government should be working to make graduate school more affordable.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/restore-subsidies-graduate-student-loans/TtNGQfHG

I actually object to the high interest rate. I think interest rate should be Federal 30 year bond rate + 1%, that would be 4%. Half of 1% will cover the servicing, taking que from mortgage servicing fees, and half of 1% will cover the insurance in case student dies or disabled. Since Federal loan cannot be written off in bankruptcy there is no credit risk.

 

[blue0rchid]

this needs more coverage/advertising to get more sigs.

 

[Shnurek]

Devil's advocate: There is an oversupply of over-educated individuals. Not enough materials are being produced in this country. We are too service oriented. If you can't afford it...don't do it and expect Uncle Sam to keep you afloat /end troll

 

[Ferocity]

Oops! Government blew away all of its money bailing people out and forgot about graduate students...

 

[Shnurek]

Na but seriously, in the long run, ending easy access to loans will stop tuition from skyrocketing. In the short run however, yes it will benefit us but what about the greater good.

 

[Hello2011]

Starting next year, graduate student loans will no longer be subsidized. This will change make graduate students responsible for interest on all of their loans, while they are in school. With the innovation and new education demands of the 21st century, the government should be working to make graduate school more affordable.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/restore-subsidies-graduate-student-loans/TtNGQfHG

The government only wants to make it harder and harder to be successful through education.

 

[Shnurek]

PharmTech please don't cross post your political agenda, not everyone agrees with this petition.

The government only wants to make it harder and harder to be successful through education.

I'm sorry but that's a blanket statement that is not based on reason. If you have easy access to loans then more people will take them out and therefore schools will raise their tuition because people can afford it.

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/216279/
"There's an easy solution. Get the government out of loaning and out of universities. Since 2007, when the government first stepped in to the universities, tuition has been consistently raised and is going to continue to be raised until at least 2018. If everyone wasn't able to obtain federal loans, this would force universities to compete with each other to keep tuition low and admissions standards high.When everybody is able to get enormous amounts of federal aid, colleges keep tuition high as the sky, because if a student wants to attend a specific university he or she will always be able to come up with the money to attend."

 

[Jason K]

Starting next year, graduate student loans will no longer be subsidized. This will change make graduate students responsible for interest on all of their loans, while they are in school. With the innovation and new education demands of the 21st century, the government should be working to make graduate school more affordable.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/restore-subsidies-graduate-student-loans/TtNGQfHG

Believe it or not, the best thing that could possibly happen for the future of all graduate students and college students would be for the US government to remove its dirty little hands from the student loan industry all together. We're in a situation that will probably take decades to correct itself, if it ever does.

Whenever you offer a group of people large sums of easily-obtainable money, whether in the form of a loan or anything else, the price of whatever it is they're buying with that money will rise unless checks are in place. Our government was not intelligent enough to ensure that those checks existed when they started handing out what seemed like free money. A perfect analog is the home mortgage bubble that finally popped in 2006. The US government mandated that banks loan money to people with poor credit, no steady income, and basically no way of paying the loans back. But since the money was easy to get, home prices inflated steadily as people simply borrowed more money to meet the rising costs of homes in the US. People said, "Hey, who cares if this home costs twice what it did 2 years ago, I'll just borrow more money since Uncle Sam says I can easily get it!" The same thing has happened to college tuition. When the government stepped in and started loaning money out to anyone with a pulse and HS diploma, colleges, universities, and graduate schools responded by increasing tuition every year, year after year. Because of that, a graduate degree can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars when the same degree, with the same or greater earning power cost pennies on the dollar a couple of decades ago.

The best thing that could happen for future students would be if the US government would step out of the student loan industry and let private banks compete for customers. The interest rates would be come a competitive product and most importantly, as money becomes a little harder to borrow, we might even see tuition costs start to fall.

In short, I'll never sign the petition and I hope no one else does either. If you really look at the core of the problem, you'll see that the petition will only worsen the larger problem if successful.

 

[Blondiechick919]

PharmTech please don't cross post your political agenda, not everyone agrees with this petition.



I'm sorry but that's a blanket statement that is not based on reason. If you have easy access to loans then more people will take them out and therefore schools will raise their tuition because people can afford it.

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/216279/
"There’s an easy solution. Get the government out of loaning and out of universities. Since 2007, when the government first stepped in to the universities, tuition has been consistently raised and is going to continue to be raised until at least 2018. If everyone wasn’t able to obtain federal loans, this would force universities to compete with each other to keep tuition low and admissions standards high.When everybody is able to get enormous amounts of federal aid, colleges keep tuition high as the sky, because if a student wants to attend a specific university he or she will always be able to come up with the money to attend."

I completely disagree with this statement. The fact is that nowadays college degrees (and now graduate degrees) are coming more of the rule than the exception, regardless of a students background or financial situation. Why should a brilliant student who grew up in a middle class family be penalized for getting into Princeton simply because it's more out of their reach? I found that in my undergrad these were the students who worked three times as hard since they were paying off the loans themselves and didn't have daddy flaying for it. Now before people jump down my throat, I'll say this is obviously not every situation.

I have a brother who's a sophomore in college and a sister who will be a freshman in 2013. During 2013-2014, my parents will be stuck paying for 2 tuition bills and they (my brother/sister) will probably borrow much less for all of college than I will for that one year of my graduate education. the fact that i have to pay interest on hundreds of thousands of dollars when I have absolutely no way of paying it off is so disgusting, and how is the government affected by subsidized loans? They aren't, they are taking advantage of the increased numbers of graduate students and out to make the almighty dollar, not to protect us. Government corruption strikes again.

 

[Shnurek]

In short, I’ll never sign the petition and I hope no one else does either. If you really look at the core of the problem, you’ll see that the petition will only worsen the larger problem if successful.

S/he also spammed every other forum. I hope s/he gets banned.

 

[Shnurek]

Why should a brilliant student who grew up in a middle class family be penalized for getting into Princeton simply because it's more out of their reach?

Ever heard of private loans? Also, that's a pretty myopic view as the tuition rates are now 5x what they were 10-20 years ago. Way outpacing inflation. So if the easy access to loans wasn't there in the first place, tuition would be 2-3x lower and there would be no need to take out these enormous loans. Basic economics.

 

[azdental89]

so wouldnt that allow banks to increase their intrest rates to extreme amounts for students who need to take out loans because thats the only way they can pay for it?

 

[SEAirLand]

Cross posting is against the rules of these forums.

Also,
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/216279/
"There’s an easy solution. Get the government out of loaning and out of universities. Since 2007, when the government first stepped in to the universities, tuition has been consistently raised and is going to continue to be raised until at least 2018. If everyone wasn’t able to obtain federal loans, this would force universities to compete with each other to keep tuition low and admissions standards high. When everybody is able to get enormous amounts of federal aid, colleges keep tuition high as the sky, because if a student wants to attend a specific university he or she will always be able to come up with the money to attend."

While I agree that there should be a rule for cross-posting in order to maintain organization, I think there should be some considerations that should be met. This is a global issue to all professional students and something that EVERYONE should be made aware of.

 

[FutureDrB]

Speaking of which...

http://ideas.time.com/2011/12/01/the-latest-wrinkle-in-college-admissions/

 

[MT Headed]

With the innovation and new education demands of the 21st century, the government should be working to make graduate school more affordable.

If your goal is to lower tuition, why would you want the government to subsidize high tuition?

If you want more of something, subsidize it.
If you want less of something, tax it.

 

[dmdluffy]

Cross posting is against the rules of these forums.

Also,
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/216279/
"There’s an easy solution. Get the government out of loaning and out of universities. Since 2007, when the government first stepped in to the universities, tuition has been consistently raised and is going to continue to be raised until at least 2018. If everyone wasn’t able to obtain federal loans, this would force universities to compete with each other to keep tuition low and admissions standards high. When everybody is able to get enormous amounts of federal aid, colleges keep tuition high as the sky, because if a student wants to attend a specific university he or she will always be able to come up with the money to attend."

The article posted is an opinion column

 

[WhizoMD]

8,000/yr unsubsidized vs. subsidized is a little annoying, but In the grand scheme of things it's not that bad. It's a lot better than other ways they're trying to save money (cutting GME funding).

 

[421822]

If the government were not involved in student loans wouldn't the price of tuition would fall dramatically?

 

[NickNaylor]

8,000/yr unsubsidized vs. subsidized is a little annoying, but In the grand scheme of things it's not that bad. It's a lot better than other ways they're trying to save money (cutting GME funding).

I agree. It's an annoyance, but if you take out the maximum of $8k/year in subsidized loans, you're essentially saving about $5500 versus unsubsidized loans (that's a very rough calculation assuming the interest is capitalized on unsubsidized loans). While that's a lot of money nominally, in the overall view of the cost of your education its not substantial. There are bigger fish to fry if you want to object to the government's attempts at cutting costs.

 

[DrBowtie]

I actually object to the high interest rate. I think interest rate should be Federal 30 year bond rate + 1%, that would be 4%. Half of 1% will cover the servicing, taking que from mortgage servicing fees, and half of 1% will cover the insurance in case student dies or disabled. Since Federal loan cannot be written off in bankruptcy there is no credit risk.

This x 1000.

Talk to some attendings. Many have their loans consolidated at ~2%. 6.8% interest is the most distressing part of these graduate loans.

 

[NickNaylor]

This x 1000.

Talk to some attendings. Many have their loans consolidated at ~2%. 6.8% interest is the most distressing part of these graduate loans.

That would be awesome to have those rates.

 

[optoapp2012]

Ever heard of private loans? Also, that's a pretty myopic view as the tuition rates are now 5x what they were 10-20 years ago. Way outpacing inflation. So if the easy access to loans wasn't there in the first place, tuition would be 2-3x lower and there would be no need to take out these enormous loans. Basic economics.

Public universities (and most private ones) are non-profit. Tuition is higher in many places because states can't afford to subsidize it like they did before the recent economic woes - not because colleges want to arbitrarily charge you more. One other reason college is getting more expensive is that students expect fancy gyms and other perks that weren't major expectations in the past. Those things cost. Oh and pretty campuses.

I definitely think grad students should keep subsidized loans if at all possible. It's not changing the amount that you CAN take out (so the same amount of money is available up front), but it does affect what you pay back later. I doubt the changes toward a lack of subsidized loans will really affect how much money people take out during grad school, so even if your opinion on why tuition goes up (which I disagree with) were true, then subsidizing loans isn't going to affect that. It only affects what we pay back later - so our ability to dig ourselves out of debt faster/slower. I know I plan on donating something back to my university once I'm no longer in debt. And that goes toward lowering tuition for future students.

 

[optoapp2012]

Starting next year, graduate student loans will no longer be subsidized. This will change make graduate students responsible for interest on all of their loans, while they are in school. With the innovation and new education demands of the 21st century, the government should be working to make graduate school more affordable.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/restore-subsidies-graduate-student-loans/TtNGQfHG

Thank you for posting the link. Agree or not, I think it's great that you are helping us be aware of what's going on not only politically, but for grad students in particular. Optometry is a legislated profession and it's important that we learn to be proactive now (whatever side of the argument someone is on).

 

[Postictal Raiden]

If the government were not involved in student loans the price of tuition would fall dramatically.

I 100% agree with you, but I don't see how eliminating government student loans, at this point, would help. Students who are very determinate to go to med school, like me, will obtain bank loans at even higher interests.

 

[Adam Smasher]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_education_bubble

 

[janedoe88]

Starting next year, graduate student loans will no longer be subsidized. This will change make graduate students responsible for interest on all of their loans, while they are in school. With the innovation and new education demands of the 21st century, the government should be working to make graduate school more affordable.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/restore-subsidies-graduate-student-loans/TtNGQfHG

Done!!! I'm so pissed they took off subsidized loans the year I go to grad school

 

[blaba]

This is part of our federal government's way of paying off the deficit they created. They sick it on the graduate student. Guess who buys our politicians? Your friendly corporate donor.

But it doesn't look like that petition will reach its desired number of signatures, eh? Like 22,000+ more to go.. I signed it though

 

[nicmc]

I understand why everyone is upset. However, for those of you who are not in Optometry school currently, most of the government loans are already unsubsidized. Even this year, a small amount of the loans from the government are subsidized. While it is unfortunate, and every bit helps, it is not a huge change from the current situation. But, it is still disheartening.

 

[KHE]

Does anyone know what year the government started subsidizing student loans?

 

[therock21]

Will not sign this. We don't need more government subsidization. We'll be just fine.

 

[yappy]

With the amount of taxes you're going to be paying it's crazy that your loans are not sub.

Will not sign this. We don't need more government subsidization. We'll be just fine.

 

[TuckerT21]

Why should professional school loans be subsidized? Why should my next door neighbors and every other American tax-payer have to pay the interest on my loan via taxes (aka "the government")???? Btw, I took out 100% loans for undergrad and for D-school other than a few scholarships.

 

[yappy]

Because much of their education was sub. (those that graduated 10+ yrs ago) and the country and trying to balance the budget on the backs of students rather than looking at tax structure and entitlements/military as a whole.

Lets make a tally:

-You're paying more for grad school because less is being covered by the state due to budget cuts (this is true in my state and i'm assuming it's true in others as well).

-Your loans will no longer be sub. like they were in the past in an effort to balance the budget.

-Medicare/caid payments will continue to slide down in order to balance the budget. The AARP and other citizen lobby groups make sure that they're not reformed in way that will keep payments the same but rather not adjust age of entitlement.

-Continue pressure by the "public" to further reduce income to dentists/doctors through new payment methods: privite insurance often follows public insurance schedules.

-With the income you will have you most likely will not be able to get any tax advantages for the interest on your educational loans or home

Bend over man - the american tax payer is screwing you.

Why should professional school loans be subsidized? Why should my next door neighbors and every other American tax-payer have to pay the interest on my loan via taxes (aka "the government")???? Btw, I took out 100% loans for undergrad and for D-school other than a few scholarships.

 

[RadRadTerp]

Cross posting is against the rules of these forums.

Also,
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/216279/
"There’s an easy solution. Get the government out of loaning and out of universities. Since 2007, when the government first stepped in to the universities, tuition has been consistently raised and is going to continue to be raised until at least 2018. If everyone wasn’t able to obtain federal loans, this would force universities to compete with each other to keep tuition low and admissions standards high. When everybody is able to get enormous amounts of federal aid, colleges keep tuition high as the sky, because if a student wants to attend a specific university he or she will always be able to come up with the money to attend."

Ah, privatization, the solution to everything, according to good ol' Ron Paul.

Universities already compete with each other. Tuition goes up as costs go up and federal & state contributions go down. The demand for education has never been higher and that's probably why they can get away with raising tuition as often as they do. Education costs won't go down because of the free market in the same way that the cost of a computer because the dynamics are very, very different.

 

[HopefulAg]

Universities already compete with each other. Tuition goes up as costs go up and federal & state contributions go down

Ding ding ding!

Everyone always wants to look at the increase in federal funding and blame that, and not notice the increase in inflation and savage cuts to funding of education.

 

[bobdolerson]

Word on the street is, most everything the government sticks it's dirty fingers into becomes just as dirty as the fingers themselves.

Show me an efficient government bureaucracy and I'll show you some fraudulent reports.

It only sucks that we might be the class that takes the fall when they finally realize that printing money out of nothingness and throwing it around is more detrimental than it's ever helpful. Without their involvement in loans, tuition rates will drop like crazy (they have to, or the schools will go under for lack of attendees).

 

[senpai]

I will not sign this petition! The federal government needs to get out of the business of education. It only drives up the cost and lowers the quality. It is unconstitutional and has been nothing but a failure.
The government providing neverending amounts of money to students is what has driven up the cost of education. You should be signing a petition for your program to lower cost!!!

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Yeah I think that there has to be a massive paradigm shift for people to realize printing money out of thin air is detrimental to our economy.

Ron Paul 2012!

 

[bobdolerson]

God bless you.

 

[TuckerT21]

Because much of their education was sub. (those that graduated 10+ yrs ago) and the country and trying to balance the budget on the backs of students rather than looking at tax structure and entitlements/military as a whole.

Lets make a tally:

-You're paying more for grad school because less is being covered by the state due to budget cuts (this is true in my state and i'm assuming it's true in others as well).

-Your loans will no longer be sub. like they were in the past in an effort to balance the budget.

-Medicare/caid payments will continue to slide down in order to balance the budget. The AARP and other citizen lobby groups make sure that they're not reformed in way that will keep payments the same but rather not adjust age of entitlement.

-Continue pressure by the "public" to further reduce income to dentists/doctors through new payment methods: privite insurance often follows public insurance schedules.

-With the income you will have you most likely will not be able to get any tax advantages for the interest on your educational loans or home

Bend over man - the american tax payer is screwing you.

1. Go lobby and petition to your state to stop raising tuition prices. I understand that cost are ridiculous and this generation is getting screwed more than the last financially if your trying to gain a professional education. However, taking away subsidized loans is not the issue at hand. Uncontrolled tuition rise by the state is the issue.
2. Petition to your school to stop raising prices, attend budget and financial meetings if you can (if you're in d-school...."pre-health"????)
3. Go to OccupyWhatever because you obviously feel you are entitled to get a professional degree and have others help you get there financially.
4. Most IMPORTANT of all is this statement you made, "With the income you will have you most likely will not be able to get any tax advantages for the interest on your educational loans or home"

By far one of the most naive, dumb things I've heard in awhile. Good thing I've been busy with school and haven't had time to get on here. You are worried that you are going to make too much money to get a tax break? For one thing, in a perfect capitalist-government-world there wouldn't be "tax breaks." Just pretend they don't exist and that your not entitled to them. Secondly, if your making a lot of money, then PAY YOUR LOANS BACK, DON'T LET YOUR INTEREST GAIN TOO MUCH, and become a good dentist making an income in the top 5% of the WORLD.

 

[yappy]

I think you're the naive one. It's a dog eat dog world. I'm not entitled to anything - unless I can get it. Yes i'm a predent. GL in DS.

I agree with your statements about paying off loans quickly.

1. Go lobby and petition to your state to stop raising tuition prices. I understand that cost are ridiculous and this generation is getting screwed more than the last financially if your trying to gain a professional education. However, taking away subsidized loans is not the issue at hand. Uncontrolled tuition rise by the state is the issue.
2. Petition to your school to stop raising prices, attend budget and financial meetings if you can (if you're in d-school...."pre-health"????)
3. Go to OccupyWhatever because you obviously feel you are entitled to get a professional degree and have others help you get there financially.
4. Most IMPORTANT of all is this statement you made, "With the income you will have you most likely will not be able to get any tax advantages for the interest on your educational loans or home"

By far one of the most naive, dumb things I've heard in awhile. Good thing I've been busy with school and haven't had time to get on here. You are worried that you are going to make too much money to get a tax break? For one thing, in a perfect capitalist-government-world there wouldn't be "tax breaks." Just pretend they don't exist and that your not entitled to them. Secondly, if your making a lot of money, then PAY YOUR LOANS BACK, DON'T LET YOUR INTEREST GAIN TOO MUCH, and become a good dentist making an income in the top 5% of the WORLD.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Ding ding ding!

Everyone always wants to look at the increase in federal funding and blame that, and not notice the increase in inflation and savage cuts to funding of education.

Cuts to funding, ok. Inflation? what world are you living in? Inflation has been benign for 20+ years, and tuition increases more than inflation almost every single year (even when there weren't any cuts to funding going on).
Vet school tuition has doubled tripled or more at most vet schools over that time.

So the driver is not just inflation and funding cuts. Something else is clearly going on. What that something else is: certainly debatable.

 

[RadRadTerp]

Cuts to funding, ok. Inflation? what world are you living in? Inflation has been benign for 20+ years, and tuition increases more than inflation almost every single year (even when there weren't any cuts to funding going on).
Vet school tuition has doubled tripled or more at most vet schools over that time.

So the driver is not just inflation and funding cuts. Something else is clearly going on. What that something else is: certainly debatable.

This reuters blog (http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/21/why-tuition-costs-are-rising/) has a link to a study that points out what costs are rising at public universities. It may not reflect what's specifically going on within professional programs, but it reflect a particular trend.

I thought this section was pretty informative:

In reality, however, the numbers show that wage inflation is — literally — the least of the problems when it comes to university cost inflation. Check out this excellent report, for instance, entitled “Trends in College Spending, 1999-2009″. The first thing to note is on page 26: spending on faculty compensation is never more than 40% of total spending, and “has remained steady or decreased slightly over time”. Then have a look at the numbers.

Overall, if we exclude for-profit schools, which were a tiny part of the landscape in 1999, we have seen tuition fees rise by 32% between 1999 and 2009. Over the same period, instruction costs rose just 5.6% — the lowest rate of inflation of any of the components of education services. (“Student services costs” and “operations and maintenance costs” saw the greatest inflation, at 15.2% and 18.1% respectively, but even that is only half the rate that tuition increased.)

The real reason why tuition has been rising so much has nothing to do with Baumol, and everything to do with the government. Page 31 of the report is quite clear: “except for private research institutions,” it says, “tuitions were increasing almost exclusively to replace losses from state revenues or other private revenue sources.”

In other words, tuition costs are going up just because state subsidies are going down. Every time there’s a state fiscal crisis, subsidies get cut; once cut, they never get reinstated. And so the proportion of the cost of college which is borne by the student has been rising steadily for decades.

 

[StartingoverVet]

This reuters blog (http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/21/why-tuition-costs-are-rising/) has a link to a study that points out what costs are rising at public universities. It may not reflect what's specifically going on within professional programs, but it reflect a particular trend.

I thought this section was pretty informative:

It is probably pretty fair. I am surprised that 1999-2009 saw that big of a problem, but I guest post 99 bubble everything has been cutting. I would be more skeptical that it explains the rises in 90-99 but I wonder.

Nice find.

 

[GoSpursGo]

As others have said, it's against the SDN Terms of Service to post the same thread in multiple forums. They have all been merged into a new thread in Topics in Healthcare.

 

[dynx]

The government only wants to make it harder and harder to be successful through education.

Actually they don't. They just have no idea what they are doing. You can make loans better for students or worse. It won't matter. The schools will just jack up the tuition. You'll pay more in principle and less in interest...yay. The gov. should get the hell out of the business of loans.

 

[GH253]

Not signed. This is utterly corrupt.