PM&R a realistic specialty for me?

[shishi]

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I am a fourth year medical student who stumbled across PM&R by accident. I have to take a year off due to an illness and will be applying to next year's match. It seems as if PM&R is a bit more competitive than the other specialties I am considering.

My board scores are step 1 240s, step 2 260s, and I have pretty good clinical grades (no AOA and I'm not really sure how my school does honors.). I will be pursuing a MPH next year. I will be doing a PM&R rotation in the spring.

My illness is extremely unlikely to recur during residency and has made me think about a career in rehab on the inpatient side. I am fairly open-minded about location.

Is PM&R a realistic specialty given my time away from clinical medicine next year?

 

[padresp]

I'm sure you'll hear it from other people, but no matter what you go into, do not worry about if you're competitive enough to match. Go with what you enjoy most; if you like it, you'll make it work. PM&R is a great field and has a ton to offer.

I'm not sure as to what you're asking about how time away will affect your residency selection. Can you rephrase it?

And I'm not sure where you got your information, but PM&R is not very competitive 🙂. If you haven't seen it, here are the data:
https://www.aamc.org/students/download/62400/data/chartingoutcomes.pdf

 

[PMR 4 MSK]

Is PM&R a realistic specialty given my time away from clinical medicine next year?

Yes, if you interested in it, your scores are good enough.

 

[bedrock]

I'm sure you'll hear it from other people, but no matter what you go into, do not worry about if you're competitive enough to match. Go with what you enjoy most; if you like it, you'll make it work. PM&R is a great field and has a ton to offer.

I'm not sure as to what you're asking about how time away will affect your residency selection. Can you rephrase it?

And I'm not sure where you got your information, but PM&R is not very competitive 🙂. If you haven't seen it, here are the data:
https://www.aamc.org/students/download/62400/data/chartingoutcomes.pdf

Agree that PM&R has a lot to offer.

Disagree on the competitive point. It's easy to match in a PM&R residency if you include all of them.
But PM&R is definite competitive for the top 5-8 programs, and the worst 5-8 programs aren't worth 3 years of your life.
(There are also plenty of worthwhile programs in the middle)

Your scores are fine. Your performance during your PM&R rotation and your LORs will be the main factor at this point.

 

[shishi]

Thanks for all of your replies -- I'm really looking forward to my rehab rotation. Since my timeline is a bit off from other med students, I'll have to let whoever is supervising me know that I'm interested in learning more about the specialty.

Padresp, I'll have a year off from clinical medicine and I have heard that this isn't usually a good thing. That's my concern.

I've been getting my information from chatter on SDN -- maybe a biased source. The data on the match outcomes was very helpful, thanks.

 

[padresp]

Padresp, I'll have a year off from clinical medicine and I have heard that this isn't usually a good thing. That's my concern.

That makes sense. But probably not worth worrying about if there's a reason. I think program directors are concerned if students are forced to take a year off or if they aren't very sure about what they want to do. You've got a legitimate reason. Additionally, you can frame it to your advantage if you can portray how a difficult year has helped solidify your residency choice.

And I agree with Bedrock, the top programs are quite competitive. My point is that, across the board, PM&R is one of the easier residencies in which to get a slot. It's getting more difficult by the year, though.

 

[bronx43]

I am a fourth year medical student who stumbled across PM&R by accident. I have to take a year off due to an illness and will be applying to next year's match. It seems as if PM&R is a bit more competitive than the other specialties I am considering.

My board scores are step 1 240s, step 2 260s, and I have pretty good clinical grades (no AOA and I'm not really sure how my school does honors.). I will be pursuing a MPH next year. I will be doing a PM&R rotation in the spring.

My illness is extremely unlikely to recur during residency and has made me think about a career in rehab on the inpatient side. I am fairly open-minded about location.

Is PM&R a realistic specialty given my time away from clinical medicine next year?

Are you an IMG? I'm finding it hard to believe that an AMG would ask if they are competitive for PM&R when they're sitting on 240/260, even with a one year LOA due to illness. And what other specialties are you considering? According to the most recent statistic, the only fields less competitive are psych and FM.

 

[shishi]

I'm an AMG, and, what do you know, the other specialties that I'm considering are FP and psych. Just wanted to see if this was an option, and I'm happy to hear that it is.

 

[PMR 4 MSK]

I'm an AMG, and, what do you know, the other specialties that I'm considering are FP and psych. Just wanted to see if this was an option, and I'm happy to hear that it is.

Sometimes I feel PM&R = FP + Psych 😀

 

[DrFreshair]

Passion is the key, my friend. Make the decision after your PM&R rotation. If needed, do some rotation or observership in FP and Psy too so that you have a comparison which specialty attracts you most. After all, this is a critical decision of your career life. YOu want to make an informed decsion even though it takes a bit more time.

BTW, I think you have good credentials. We often focus on the little/only weakness we have and forget we have lots of other strengthes. 🙂

 

[brimcmike]

Sometimes I feel PM&R = FP + Psych 😀

PM&R = [(Ortho + Rheum) x (Anesthesia - Surg)]
A[(ID + Derm) x (FP + Peds ) x (Neuro - Psych)]

QED

 

[DrMattOglesby]

Brilliant~~I'm stealing that and using it in my sig!

 

[100YardDash]

PM&R = [(Ortho + Rheum) x (Anesthesia - Surg)]
A[(ID + Derm) x (FP + Peds ) x (Neuro - Psych)]

QED

ha!

 

[PMR 4 MSK]

PM&R = [(Ortho + Rheum) x (Anesthesia - Surg)]
A[(ID + Derm) x (FP + Peds ) x (Neuro - Psych)]

QED

Thank you, I needed that laugh today!

 

[doctor804]

I'ld like to piggy-back off of this post. I am interested in PM&R as well, but not sure if I am a competitive candidate. I am a 3rd year IMG (Ross) with a step 1 score of 213 (90%). I am scheduled for a 4 week PM&R elective in May and plan on taking step 2 at the end of June...I am slowly discovering the field and the more I learn, the further my interest grows. Any help on improving my chances to getting a residency spot would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[RUOkie]

I'ld like to piggy-back off of this post. I am interested in PM&R as well, but not sure if I am a competitive candidate. I am a 3rd year IMG (Ross) with a step 1 score of 213 (90%). I am scheduled for a 4 week PM&R elective in May and plan on taking step 2 at the end of June...I am slowly discovering the field and the more I learn, the further my interest grows. Any help on improving my chances to getting a residency spot would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

do clinicals at a hospital affiliated with a PM&R residency and meet the docs there. Do a rotation in PM&R and work hard there.

 

[doctor804]

Does that mean my only true shot at recieving a spot is through a program I've rotated with??? I wouldn't be competitive in other programs that are not familiar with me?

 

[RUOkie]

Does that mean my only true shot at recieving a spot is through a program I've rotated with??? I wouldn't be competitive in other programs that are not familiar with me?

NO! But if you shine, you can get a good LOR which really helps with getting interviews. The academic PM&R community is very small.

way back when, I got a LOR from the chairman of my med school program. He happened to be old friends with Marty Grabois (chair at Baylor Houston). When I showed up to my interview, Dr. Grabois said to me; "Dr. xxxxxx wanted to tell you hello". I am absolutely sure that that LOR is what got me in the door at Baylor.

 

[doctor804]

Thanks for the advice RuOkie! This type of info and guidance is always helpful!
Do you think I should try to do some research while I do rotations?

 

[Jitter Bug]

Thanks for the advice RuOkie! This type of info and guidance is always helpful!
Do you think I should try to do some research while I do rotations?

No! Your job on an "audition" rotation is to show up on time, be organized, work hard and tell everyone you are interested in PM&R and interested in this residency program. Buying latte's and offering to do wound dressing changes doesn't hurt either.

This is not the time to lock yourself away reading articles. Be visible and be a help to your residents so they tell your attending (and future letter writer) what a great catch you would be.

Everyone knows everyone in PM&R. So don't piss anyone off. Save that for when you are a chief resident

 

[RUOkie]

No! Your job on an "audition" rotation is to show up on time, be organized, work hard and tell everyone you are interested in PM&R and interested in this residency program. Buying latte's and offering to do wound dressing changes doesn't hurt either.

This is not the time to lock yourself away reading articles. Be visible and be a help to your residents so they tell your attending (and future letter writer) what a great catch you would be.

Everyone knows everyone in PM&R. So don't piss anyone off. Save that for when you are a chief resident

correct👍

 

[PMR 4 MSK]

Everyone knows everyone in PM&R. So don't piss anyone off. Save that for when you are a chief resident

That's why I didn't get to be Chief resident. I pissed too many people off by telling them what they needed to hear. It changed things for the better, but ruffled feathers. Bascially, I'm not PC. 😀

 

[doctor804]

You guys have been incredibly helpful! ha and I am sorry but the questions keep coming...

So I have already lined up one 4 week rotation in PM&R at NRH in Washington, DC. Will that be enough or do I need more exposure? If so, any suggestions where I could do an elective in PM&R (don't forget I am Ross student/IMG)???

Thank you in advance for any replies 😀

 

[MrJiggles]

Hi, I'm an 3rd year allopathic AMG from the NY area with an interest in psych...or anesthesiology...well screw it i'm in an existential flux from having to figure what to do with my life. I started hearing docs talk about PM&R and started looking at what the field is about and it actually seems pretty awesome. Issue is, I've already done my electives for third year having not heard about this specialty's existence. I would have to take some more time in my 4th year to do more elective time in PM&R, thus sacrificing time for doing away electives etc. I really want to stay in NYC for family reasons, and I have 'average' board scores etc. Is it very competitive to match top PM&R programs in NYC as an AMG? Are away electives encouraged/helpful in PM&R if I want to go to a top program, or do they not matter as much? All my docs tell me that its a "up and coming" field that will rival anesthesiology in the coming years, what exactly are they referring to? I apologize for my naiveté, I've only recently started thinking about these matters.

 

[Jitter Bug]

Hi, I'm an 3rd year allopathic AMG from the NY area with an interest in psych...or anesthesiology...well screw it i'm in an existential flux from having to figure what to do with my life. I started hearing docs talk about PM&R and started looking at what the field is about and it actually seems pretty awesome. Issue is, I've already done my electives for third year having not heard about this specialty's existence. I would have to take some more time in my 4th year to do more elective time in PM&R, thus sacrificing time for doing away electives etc. I really want to stay in NYC for family reasons, and I have 'average' board scores etc. Is it very competitive to match top PM&R programs in NYC as an AMG? Are away electives encouraged/helpful in PM&R if I want to go to a top program, or do they not matter as much? All my docs tell me that its a "up and coming" field that will rival anesthesiology in the coming years, what exactly are they referring to? I apologize for my naiveté, I've only recently started thinking about these matters.

It's been said before but I'll say it again. If you want to match in PM&R you have to do the same steps you would to match into any other field. Do a PM&R rotation. Get a LOR from PM&R physician. Make sure your interest is still there after having done a rotation. You will not match to a top program unless you are more competitive than other top applicants who have good scores, PM&R rotations, letters, etc.

It's tough when you are in the existential flux-I was there myself. What I did was completely rearrange 4th year to do a string of electives right away so I could pick a field. Yes this means you get to end your 4th year on something time intensive like surgery or medicine, but you gotta make your decisions fast and trust me the rotations will really help you make your choice.

Also remember not all doctors join the university and become asst professors. Make sure you are getting an idea what a doctor's life could be in clinics, private practice, procedure units, etc.

 

[bedrock]

Hi, I'm an 3rd year allopathic AMG from the NY area with an interest in psych...or anesthesiology...well screw it i'm in an existential flux from having to figure what to do with my life. I started hearing docs talk about PM&R and started looking at what the field is about and it actually seems pretty awesome. Issue is, I've already done my electives for third year having not heard about this specialty's existence. I would have to take some more time in my 4th year to do more elective time in PM&R, thus sacrificing time for doing away electives etc. I really want to stay in NYC for family reasons, and I have 'average' board scores etc. Is it very competitive to match top PM&R programs in NYC as an AMG? Are away electives encouraged/helpful in PM&R if I want to go to a top program, or do they not matter as much? All my docs tell me that its a "up and coming" field that will rival anesthesiology in the coming years, what exactly are they referring to? I apologize for my naiveté, I've only recently started thinking about these matters.

The top PM&R programs in NYC are not crazy competitive. Don't get me wrong, there are some good strong NYC programs.

1-Any AMG can match into a PM&R slot somewhere as long as no red flags in your history.
2-An average AMG can match into the strong (but not elite) PMR programs.

The elite programs are located outside of NYC, (people may debate which ones are included), but the list generally includes-RIC/northwestern, U Washington, Mayo, Kessler/UMDNJ, Spaulding/Harvard.
You have to be more of an elite applicant to match to these elite programs.

I'm sure you can match into a strong NYC program if there are no red flags in your history. Just do a PMR elective and work hard, get a PMR LOR, and you're set.

 

[sandstone]

I have been accepted to a DO school that I'm very excited about, and unless I hear from the MD program that I'm even more excited about, I will be attending osteopathic school beginning this summer. I am very interested in PM&R for a long time, and it was actually learning about this specialty that inspired me to go to med school instead of PT school. I have heard that ACGME PM&R programs may be a bit more friendly to DO applicants than other specialties. Is this true? Is there a resource out there that shows which programs have accepted DOs in the past, and which ones may be more realistic for a (hopefully) competitive DO applicant? Thanks!

 

[newbie04]

The top PM&R programs in NYC are not crazy competitive. Don't get me wrong, there are some good strong NYC programs.

1-Any AMG can match into a PM&R slot somewhere as long as no red flags in your history.
2-An average AMG can match into the strong (but not elite) PMR programs.

The elite programs are located outside of NYC, (people may debate which ones are included), but the list generally includes-RIC/northwestern, U Washington, Mayo, Kessler/UMDNJ, Spaulding/Harvard.
You have to be more of an elite applicant to match to these elite programs.

I'm sure you can match into a strong NYC program if there are no red flags in your history. Just do a PMR elective and work hard, get a PMR LOR, and you're set.

Thank you for your insight, bedrock.

I interviewed at all of the NYC programs and I have to say that this year seemed competitive from my perspective (many of my friends applying PM&R were not even granted an interview and they had great stats with unique reasons for applying to PM&R).

Since there are relatively few spots in NYC, they are more competitive solely based on people wanting to be in NYC. Also, on the interview trail this year, I heard at almost every interview that the sheer number of applicants this year was unprecedented. Many places I interviewed commented that to even get an interview at some of the bigger name places was extremely competitive this year (many commented the most competitive year they have ever had).

I think the days of "do a PM&R elective, work hard and get a PM&R letter, and you're set" are over, especially for the big name / top programs. That's definitely the vibe I got on the interview trail this year.

Just my $.02

 

[newbie04]

I have been accepted to a DO school that I'm very excited about, and unless I hear from the MD program that I'm even more excited about, I will be attending osteopathic school beginning this summer. I am very interested in PM&R for a long time, and it was actually learning about this specialty that inspired me to go to med school instead of PT school. I have heard that ACGME PM&R programs may be a bit more friendly to DO applicants than other specialties. Is this true? Is there a resource out there that shows which programs have accepted DOs in the past, and which ones may be more realistic for a (hopefully) competitive DO applicant? Thanks!

Congrats on your acceptance.

 

[bedrock]

Thank you for your insight, bedrock.

I interviewed at all of the NYC programs and I have to say that this year seemed competitive from my perspective (many of my friends applying PM&R were not even granted an interview and they had great stats with unique reasons for applying to PM&R).

Since there are relatively few spots in NYC, they are more competitive solely based on people wanting to be in NYC. Also, on the interview trail this year, I heard at almost every interview that the sheer number of applicants this year was unprecedented. Many places I interviewed commented that to even get an interview at some of the bigger name places was extremely competitive this year (many commented the most competitive year they have ever had).

I think the days of "do a PM&R elective, work hard and get a PM&R letter, and you're set" are over, especially for the big name / top programs. That's definitely the vibe I got on the interview trail this year.

Just my $.02

Thanks for the updated info. I matched more a little over 7 years ago at one of the "elite programs" I listed, and at that time, you only had to be an elite PM&R applicant in order to land a spot at one of those 5 residencies. It appears that things are changing and the field is getting more competitive at the mid-level programs particularly in desirable locales......which I think is great.

I'm still sure that you just need an MD from a US med school to match into a PMR slot somewhere in the US at one of the weaker programs.

 

[bfeternity]

Would like to piggyback on this thread and wanted to get an assessment of my competitiveness for the field and an idea of where I should apply.

I am an MD candidate at a private top 25 med school in a big northeast city.
Boards: 200/215.
Clinicals: mainly High Pass
Research: many abstracts/poster presentations, some PM&R related. No publications (yet). Ongoing projects.
Lots of extracurriculars during med school.

Which programs am I realistic for? How are my chances of matching? Geographically, I would prefer either the Northeast, Midwest, or South. (if an IMG didn't match with 230/240s in the other thread, i am a little worried)

Thanks!
-Mike

 

[Taliesinrk]

Would like to piggyback on this thread and wanted to get an assessment of my competitiveness for the field and an idea of where I should apply.

I am an MD candidate at a private top 25 med school in a big northeast city.
Boards: 200/215.
Clinicals: mainly High Pass
Research: many abstracts/poster presentations, some PM&R related. No publications (yet). Ongoing projects.
Lots of extracurriculars during med school.

Which programs am I realistic for? How are my chances of matching? Geographically, I would prefer either the Northeast, Midwest, or South. (if an IMG didn't match with 230/240s in the other thread, i am a little worried)

Thanks!

I am in a very similar situation and would greatly appreciate suggestions. I am currently trying to choose 2 locations for away rotations, but would like to do them at programs that I would have a chance to match into... the only difference is that I would be VERY willing to go west (texas, utah, etc) as well as elsewhere in the country. I would be very thankful for any advice... thanks so much!

 

[theserbatron]

I think one of the most important things to do is to apply broadly to PM&R programs and internships to maximize the number of interviews and number of chances to match. As one of the other posters said, this past year was quite competitive for PM&R (I met A LOT of smart, talented, and hard working candidates!) and as a future applicant, you want to keep your options open.

I know that many will have geographical preferences, but I feel that it's more important to go after the best possible training, and worry about where you're going to settle later when it comes time to find a fellowship or a job thereafter. You'll never be able to residency over again, but your beloved home town isn't going anywhere.

Another thing to consider is that not all programs have the same focus. Some are more practice oriented, while others are more research/academics oriented. Some are more outpatient, and some are more inpatient. Very few strike that perfect 50/50 inpatient-outpatient balance.

Ultimately, one style is not any better than the other... but it's important to try to identify what you want in a residency program. Do you want lots of inpatient, research opportunities and the "academic" setting, or you looking for a more outpatient-oriented MSK heavy experience? Figure that out and tailor your application accordingly.

Rotating at a program you are very interested in is a good way to show off your personality and skills, while testing the waters to see what their residents are like and what to expect if you were to match there. It's important during those audition rotations to work hard, try to anticipate what the residents might need help with and try to help fill in the gaps, show enthusiasm, a sense of humor, and BE YOURSELF!