PM&R: Help me finalize my rank order list!

Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by Ligament, Feb 19, 2002.

  1. Ligament

    Ligament Interventional Pain Management
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    Hi All,

    I will be submitting my choices for the PM&R match very soon, and would like to solicit your unreserved opinions of the following PM&R residencies, all of which I have interviewed at.

    I plan on having an outpatient musculoskeletal/pain/spine clinic after residency. Would consider an interventional fellowship as well, though undecided at this point of course.

    Here are the programs I would like your opinions on, in no particular order:
    1. University of Michigan
    2. Spaulding/Harvard
    3. U. of Washington
    4. Univ. of California at Davis
    5. RIC
    6. Indiana University
    7. Loyola
    8. University of Chicago/Schwab Rehab.
    9. Medical College of Wisconsin

    Any takers? THANKS in advance. Please help!
     
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  3. bbbmd

    bbbmd Pain Doctor/Physiatrist
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    I'd like to help you but it seems we interviewed at different places! I pretty much figured out my rank order and went with the programs with the most diverse exposure to all sub-specialties. I am also looking into a musculoskeletal-type fellowship, but am interested in peds also. I think its much too early for me to choose a program strong in a particular field and not so strong in others! I may change my mind during residency and would like to have had good experience in all fields! Thats what I did, I hope that that advise helps you.

    I interviewed at Loyola... Too much VA for me!!! Otherwise, like most programs, you get good exposure to most things.
     
  4. Sevo

    Sevo Senior Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ligament:
    <strong>Hi All,

    I will be submitting my choices for the PM&R match very soon, and would like to solicit your unreserved opinions of the following PM&R residencies, all of which I have interviewed at.

    I plan on having an outpatient musculoskeletal/pain/spine clinic after residency. Would consider an interventional fellowship as well, though undecided at this point of course.

    Here are the programs I would like your opinions on, in no particular order:
    1. University of Michigan
    2. Spaulding/Harvard
    3. U. of Washington
    4. Univ. of California at Davis
    5. RIC
    6. Indiana University
    7. Loyola
    8. University of Chicago/Schwab Rehab.
    9. Medical College of Wisconsin

    Any takers? THANKS in advance. Please help!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not going into the field, but from conversations with a few friends who are in PM&R,
    the University of Washington should be at the top of your list.
     
  5. ollaguna

    ollaguna Member
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    Just curious, what kind of interventional fellowships can you complete following a PM&R residency?
     
  6. Ichi

    Ichi Junior Member
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    I would put UC Davis, Spaulding, RIC and U of Michigan at the top. I understand that all these programs have an excellent outpatient physical medicine clinical experience with RIC and Spaulding having the most well rounded clinical experience. Although I did not interview at U of Washington, I have heard mixed stories about the program. I have heard that it is a great place for inpatient rehab, specifically spinal cord injury. However, I heard that it is more malignant than other programs with subpar clinical experience in outpatient musculoskeletal.
     
  7. Ligament

    Ligament Interventional Pain Management
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    Hey all,

    Please, I'd like to keep this thread on topic and not discuss fellowships here at this time. Please just comment on the programs I listed at the top of the thread.

    Thanks!
     
  8. Betrayed

    Betrayed Junior Member

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    Ligament,

    I agree with Ichi--RIC, Spaulding, U. of Michigan, and Davis are excellent programs. I believe all would provide solid exposure to outpatient musculoskeletal rehab.

    The Univ of Washington may be a big name but it has a VERY MALIGNANT reputation. I trained as a physiatrist (not there but at another equally malignant program with an emphasis on spinal cord medicine) and worked with a couple of graduates from the Seattle program (they graduated within the past three years.) Both of them talked about the malignant nature of the program.I think you would be interested in reading a residency review (on this web site) of the University of Washington program posted on Feb. 18 by a PGY-2.

    Good luck on your decision! You will be well-trained at any one of the 4 programs mentioned above.
     
  9. Ligament

    Ligament Interventional Pain Management
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    Any more opinions? I'm in a time crunch here!

    aargh! Thanks for all opinions so far.

    Ligament :confused:
     
  10. DigableCat

    DigableCat Senior Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ligament:

    I plan on having an outpatient musculoskeletal/pain/spine clinic after residency. Would consider an interventional fellowship as well, though undecided at this point of course.

    Here are the programs I would like your opinions on, in no particular order:
    1. University of Michigan
    2. Spaulding/Harvard
    3. U. of Washington
    4. Univ. of California at Davis
    5. RIC
    6. Indiana University
    7. Loyola
    8. University of Chicago/Schwab Rehab.
    9. Medical College of Wisconsin

    Any takers? THANKS in advance. Please help![/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1. UM- didn't interview there
    2. Spaulding-did a rotation there. Good program however, I got the feeling that they(and most applicants) rely on the name too heavily. It's a relatively new program and if you think the old school Neuro/Anes programs of "fair Harvard" are going to be willing to give the new kid on the block choice real estate, you've got another thing coming. Don't get me wrong, good program...but HIGHLY OVERATED...there are much better programs out there...
    3. UW- I agree with Betrayed in reading the scutwork.com review. I was a little hesitant to rank them highly as it did seem a bit heavy on the IP. And the fact that they make you take grad level classes(with exams) WITHOUT getting a degree out of it didn't rest too well with me. Not to mention the gray gray weather...
    4. Didn't interview there, although there is a general consensus that none of the programs in Cali are that great(but don't let the residents at those programs here them say that).
    5. RIC- Without a doubt one of the top programs in the country. And they know they have the pick of the litter. Other than the ungodly cold weather there, there are few negatives. Although you will work very hard, you get the "name" when you graduate. I've also heard that you have to be slightly more agressive with getting to do procedures, as the attendings aren't so forthcoming...
    6.IU- did not interview there
    7. Loyola- Nope, not there either
    8. UC- Nope, not there
    9. MCW- Nope, not there either...

    Good luck in the match!
     
  11. The only three programs I considered from your list are UC Davis, Harvard, and Northwestern.

    I ranked the programs as follows:

    1. Harvard/Spaulding
    2. Northwestern/RIC
    3. UC Davis

    I really liked the fact that RIC and Spaulding had a separate hospital dedicated to PM&R. Both also have a ton of resources and money. I went back and forth almost everyday between Spaulding and RIC. In fact, I believe I moved Spaulding up to the top in the last thirty minutes. I think Northwestern has the strongest program overall. However, I felt that with most of the 4th year being electives at Harvard, I could really tailor my training to my personal interests. Also, I preferred (as did my wife) Boston to Chicago.

    Honestly, at times I do regret not going to UC Davis. I'm a Californian at heart and I don't really like the East Coast. I've heard that UC Davis has started a joint Pain Fellowship with Anesthesia. They take two from PM&R and two from Anesthesia each year. Considering that they only have three residents in each class, I would say that the odds are pretty good that you will get one of the spots. In July, two of the Pain fellows at UC Davis will be the graduating PGY-4s. The drawbacks to UC Davis are that the inpatient training is pretty weak, but that didn't really bother me at all. Also, the program is tiny and receives very little support.

    Based on my experiences, this is how many people might rank your programs:

    1. RIC
    2. Spaulding
    3. U. of Washington (due to malignancy)
    4. UC Davis (could jump higher if your prefer living in the best state in the country) :)
    5. I don't really know about the rest and where they would fit in. There wasn't much talk about these programs by Physiatrists, residents, and applicants. I've heard that U. of Chicago and U. of Michigan have good programs though.
     
  12. Ligament

    Ligament Interventional Pain Management
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    Keep your opinions comin'!! Thanks.
     
  13. drusso

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    Okay, I rotated at Seattle; it's a great program really and not "malignant" as people say. It has always had that reputation because the Seattle residents work very hard, are given a lot of autonomy, but emerge as well-trained physiatrists. There used to be some malignant professors who have either retired, left, or transitioned into "emeritus mode." Excellent EMG and academic/research opportunities. The major problem is that the musculoskeletal/pain/occ med/spine training (the major bread and butter of outpatient physiatry) just isn't there. It's sort of sad because if you pick up PM&R journals physiatrists are being recruited like gang-busters for these kinds of positions. It's a great place for SCI/Stroke/TBI/neuro/transplant/trauma rehab. If that's your bag of tea, you can't get much better. The pediatric training is strong too. I understand that their outpatient musculoskeletal curriculum is evolving, but I think it is still 3-5 years away from being a truly well-rounded program like RIC (pretty much the standard setter in rehab.)

    RIC--great program, like being a kid in a rehab candy store. You can't go wrong---from myoelectrically controlled prosthetic limbs and state of the art interventional pain training to performing arts medicine. RIC has it all.

    Harvard--great program, excellent flexibility, great support from attendings and program director. Very strong academic orientation. Still somewhat of an "unproven" commodity in the very cliquish world of rehab...but it *IS* Harvard...and their residents get great jobs and appointments.

    Mayo--great program, probably the best outpatient musculoskeletal training in the country. Five of their attendings are team physicians for US olympic teams. One word summarizes the Mayo Clinic... "quality." Smallish town MN is not for everyone...

    Univ of Michigan--solid, well-balanced program. Good outpatient and musculoskeletal/spine curriculum; university setting is a plus--all the benefit of Seattle with more musculoskeletal emphasis and more nurturing atmosphere.

    UC Davis--Did not apply or interview there (maybe I should have), but I hear that it is a an up and coming program. From what I hear, good musculoskeletal and spine. Brian Davis, MD (Program Director) is a strong resident advocate.

    Can't comment on the rest of your list...

    Good luck!
     
  14. prefontaine

    prefontaine Senior Member
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    UCD would be my current first choice for outpt/mslk med.

    Last year, I worked with Brian Davis and he is an excellent addition to the program.

    U Chicago is not a good program for outpt, nor is Michigan.

    Indiana is an up and coming program, though who wants to live in Indianapolis.
     

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