Political issues at interviews

[acrobat]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Ok I've been rejected at two interviews from the two schools in Wisconsin-MCOW and UW_Madison.

Madison---Everytime politics comes up. At Madison the guy saw I studied abroad and asked if I liked to travel. I said yes we talked about this cheese he liked that I liked also from Oaxaca Mexico. Then he asked if I wanted to travel during my residency. and so on (skip some stuff) Then he started askin whether I wanted to go see how socialized medicine worked overseas. I just kinda sat there and said nothing or tried to switch subjects. It ended on a wierd note where we just kinda stared at each other. He wanted to know what I thought I said nothing..... I don't think it went over well


MCOW(Milwaukee)-I can't rememeber what happend here but some political thing happened and I was jsut quite again

I have an interview in Arkansas this week and I know something political will come up again. I'm fairily moderate and really don't want to take a stance on these issues. No matter what you say you're screwed.

I think it's fairely safe to assume that most med school interviewers are liberal- at least this is my guess. I also think that the if you do run into a Republican they tend to be more forgiving-I know some will disagreee- but if you tell a Republican Doctor- I believe that health care is a right- he can't get to upset. If you tell a democrat that you take some middle ground like- I think everyone should have health care but I'd rather have free markets for the upper and middle class for those who can afford to pay. Or that Universal Health care has it's ups and downs in places like Canada They may actually take a offense and think you are a bad person.

Right now I think leaning to the left a little is the way to go if you have to take a side. But Arkansas is a RED STATE. If I get a hardcore republican as an interviewer and he asks me Q's am I gonna be **** outa luck??????

I jsut want to get into med school not argue about politics but for whatever reason interviewers bring it up. Then I look dumb cause I look like it is the first time i've ever pondered these issues as I stare off into space with a dumb look on my face. Anyway- suggestions please

 

[CanuckRazorback]

UAMS is very conservative. The whole state is about 30 years behind if you ask me, but then again you can't get more liberal than a French Canadian from Montreal.

I had some the same worries for Arkansas so I did a mock interview at the U of A to test out the field. The topic of abortion came up. I didn't know what to answer b/c AR is a red state, really religious, etc. My mock interviewer gave me the greatest answer afterwards. He said that the best answer you can give is to inform your patient of all the options they have and let the patient make her own decision. You don't have to perform the abortion if that's what the patient desires, but you can't convince the patient not to have one if that's what the patient wants. Say something along the lines that you won't let your personal values stand in the way of your patient's best interest.

Some of the questions you will definitely be asked:
Tell me about you. It's a closed file interview, use it to your advantage.
Strength/weaknesses
How do you handle stress? Give me a situation where you shined under pressure.
You might have a situation question. Mine was: The army plane I was on crashed into the ocean, Cast Away style. The 20 survivors are on a raft and I am the captain. I have to throw 3 people overboard otherwise every body dies. Who gets thrown overboard and why?

Another advice: send a thank you note to your interviewers, to the director of admissions: Tom South, and to the Dean. They will be there throughout the day so thanking them for their time on a Saturday would be a nice touch. Don't be generic in your thank you notes. Strongly state your interest in UAMS.

I can't think of anything else right now. I hope this helps!

 

[acrobat]

!) Strenghs-Trying to think of some that are good but can also be said in a believable way

Care about other people (better way to say it)
Motivated\work ethic
Organized

Weaknesses say maybe I procrastinate (sometimes true) but I'm trying to fix that by staying mroe organized?

Any other good ones?

2) for tell me about your self-I'll probably start by with childhood\parents etc town (I live out in the boon docks- rural), HS, college., etc in chronological order and then tell my interests

Again as far as Q's to ask them I'm still looking for good ones. Thanks for the advice on the childrens hospital- I have a friend who is going into peds. Also that's a good stance on abortion

 

[CanuckRazorback]

!) Strenghs-Trying to think of some that are good but can also be said in a believable way

Care about other people (better way to say it)
Motivated\work ethic
Organized

Weaknesses say maybe I procrastinate (sometimes true) but I'm trying to fix that by staying mroe organized?

Any other good ones?

2) for tell me about your self-I'll probably start by with childhood\parents etc town (I live out in the boon docks- rural), HS, college., etc in chronological order and then tell my interests

Again as far as Q's to ask them I'm still looking for good ones. Thanks for the advice on the childrens hospital- I have a friend who is going into peds. Also that's a good stance on abortion

Bring up what you want to talk about when you tell them about yourself. They don't know anything else about you except your name so it's more likely they will ask you about things you bring up. Word of advice... Don't tell them you're intelligent When they asked me for my strengths, I was totally stumped so I just sat there and I was like, mmm, I'm intelligent 😕 As soon as it left my mouth, I felt like such a ******* Also made worse by the reaction of one of my interviewer who rolled her eyes 😱 It was at the beginning of the interview so I started sweating right then and there. It was awful. I came back with better things to say so I guess they forgot about my early stupidity.

I think I scored some points by saying that what I value most is family. Really big in the south. Instead of just enumerating your stregths, provide examples. I used my athletic background to show that I was dedicated, organized, etc. You could mention that you're a perfectionist which leads you to proscrastinate. I used that and said that I was working on that. Always say you're working on your weaknesses. 👍

 

[japhy]

asking if you want to observe and learn from another system of medicine is a political question?

many of my friends serve as student interviewers. they have reiterated to me time and time again, they are not interested per se in the particular stance that you take. what they are interested in is hearing how you as an individual, and a future doctor, make important decisions (and what values guide you) in your life.

if you did not have the balls to stand up and say what you believe in, you have no right to be in the medical profession. you will have to fight for your patients, you will be belitted by attendings and nurses. sorry to sound rude, but based on the story you have presented i can see why you were rejected.

as far as your assumption that interviewers are liberal, talk about calling the kettle black. not only are you stereotyping, but you are way off base. get over yourself
👎

 

[acrobat]

Japhy- "get over myself"? I'm jsut trying to better my application so I can pursue the career I want. Where did you sense my ego in all this.

- Also I can't recall the exact conversation but there were more questions than that and I basically wanted to avoid taking a stance on Universal health care. People have such strong opinions on these things that it always affects their opinion of you. This is why I haven't told ANYONE who I vopted for in the last election. People get so emotional over these things.

If you can't say something nice don't say it? You don't know or whether I deserve to get into med school other than your rush to judgement.

 

[japhy]

People have such strong opinions on these things that it always affects their opinion of you. This is why I haven't told ANYONE who I vopted for in the last election. People get so emotional over these things.

you make incredibly overbroad generalizations about huge swaths of people based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence.

i was trying to provide you some constructive criticism. i think you need to take a stand; show these people that you believe in SOMETHING. if you dodge the question it will and does reflect on your ability to be a leader, an incredibly important (i dare say critical) quality of all physicians.

furthermore, it is important that you can back up your view with a logical argument. plenty of people think that universal heath care is nonsense. but why? plenty of people think that it can save the u.s. health system. ok, but why? see where i am going with this?

universal health coverage is a huge issue in medicine. the fact that you did not want to say anything inflammatory about it could be easily interpreted as demonstrating your lack of knowledge or interest in health care. if you want to kill your applications, not showing an interest in medicine is the perferct way to accomplish this goal.

to me, your unwillingness to take a view and STAND UP for it is a huge part of the reason you were rejected. as a doctor you will make bad decisions and mistakes. you have to own up to them. you did not show that ability to the interviewers. furthermore, your unwillingness to discuss one of the foremost issues currently debated in medicine suggests a lack of interest in the profession.

what do you think the purpose of the interviews are? the schools obviously have some interest in you - you most likely have passed their academic threshold. they are interviewing you to observe your interest in, and commitment to, medicine. from what little you shared with us, you failed in this regard.

 

[2tall]

Mr. Bat, how'd the Arkansas interview go?

 

[Mr PluM]

swaths of people based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence.


pay attention to wat you say you do not want to offend good ole mr plum

anecdotal evidence is the foundation of scientific absolutism

opinion, thought, fact, is all the same thang. dont be a fool and draw up a binary with this anecdotal biswaks i will chuck plums at your face

and to acrobat stop being an acrobatic character and just be yourself state what you believe in just dont ever kill the patient in the interview that is north american moral law

there is nothing worst the posing in your interview them accepting you and then your real self comes out while your in med and you feel you do not belong med skools look for different characters believe me everyone goes into med skool very different and they come out the same..b**ches for pharms...
maybe ..001 percent of the class comes believing in their patient's right to be to a healthy individual...

one does not fight for their patient that is violent this japhy dude reminds of nietzche...but nietzche is dead...

be your self acrobat and dig deep and state what you feel

 

[acrobat]

you make incredibly overbroad generalizations about huge swaths of people based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence.

i was trying to provide you some constructive criticism. i think you need to take a stand; show these people that you believe in SOMETHING. if you dodge the question it will and does reflect on your ability to be a leader, an incredibly important (i dare say critical) quality of all physicians.

furthermore, it is important that you can back up your view with a logical argument. plenty of people think that universal heath care is nonsense. but why? plenty of people think that it can save the u.s. health system. ok, but why? see where i am going with this?

universal health coverage is a huge issue in medicine. the fact that you did not want to say anything inflammatory about it could be easily interpreted as demonstrating your lack of knowledge or interest in health care. if you want to kill your applications, not showing an interest in medicine is the perferct way to accomplish this goal.

to me, your unwillingness to take a view and STAND UP for it is a huge part of the reason you were rejected. as a doctor you will make bad decisions and mistakes. you have to own up to them. you did not show that ability to the interviewers. furthermore, your unwillingness to discuss one of the foremost issues currently debated in medicine suggests a lack of interest in the profession.

what do you think the purpose of the interviews are? the schools obviously have some interest in you - you most likely have passed their academic threshold. they are interviewing you to observe your interest in, and commitment to, medicine. from what little you shared with us, you failed in this regard.

Japhy- That advice about not tellin people who I voted for was given to me by my grandfather, and I think it is really good advice. I get your point is
tho-take a stand and defend it. All I am saying is that I didn't want to get in a political arguement with my interviewers. I like being a blank slate politically. Maybe you don't, but that way no one ever labels you as something or likes\dislikes you because of you views. My parents (republicans) think I voted for Kerry because I won't tell them. MY friends think I voted for Bush because I won't tell them. I find this to me a source of amusment. Anyhow- where do you go to medical school?


2Tall- hmmmm. I think it went pretty well, but I'm never sure. "I had two male MDs and one a female PHD. One guy grilled me. One guy seemed contend to just listen and nod his head, which is probably a positive thing. The PHD liked me I think. However, I think they said they had around 15 spots for 72 applicants so I'm not getting my hopes up. I still haven't heard back from almost every out of state school yet though so I'm hoping I get more interviews.

 

[japhy]

acrobat,

look, if someone is asking you who you voted for that is one thing, but to refuse to take a stand on universal heath care is quite another. i understand where you are coming from in the former case.

trying to 'game' the system like this doesn't work.

anyway, good luck to you. i go to school out west, but am currently taking a 3 year leave to get a law degree at upenn.

 

[acrobat]

I' didn't "game" the system

 

[2tall]

I' didn't "game" the system

Have you sent it was enlightening speaking with you AKA thank you cards?

 

[japhy]

Hate to break it to you, but thank you cards are worthless for several reasons.

Most importantly, by the time your interviewer has received the card, most likely his or her evaluation is already written and has been turned in to the selections committee. So while it is certainly a nice gesture, its impact on your application is nil.

 

[lightnk102]

though i disagree with the tone that japhy took, i think he makes some important points. oftentimes, the purpose of the interview is not for the interviewer to find out if you agree with everything he thinks. the point is not to figure out what you think, but how you think. If you can back your argument up with good support and facts, no one is going to reject you based on political leanings. of course, common sense dictates that in stating your view, you don't make inflammatory potentially offensive statements, so yes - i would moderate any extreme views.

i think staying quiet on the topic of universal healthcare probably did you more harm than good. i can understand your desire to be a political blank slate, but is your desire to be "blank" stronger than your desire to get into med school? its important for the interviewers to make sure that you have a good understanding of the healthcare issues today. at every single interview, i've been asked about healthcare and what i think are the biggest problems right now (as well as what I think are solutions). Obviously - if I really knew the answer to these - I'd be a rich woman. Interviewers know there is no easy solution - but they want to see how you think.

Let me give you an example:
At an interview, I was asked to name not just one, but FOUR problems in healthcare today, and their corresponding solutions. When I mentioned tort reform, my interviewer pointed out that we're harming patients who may actually have good cases. I told him he was right. At that same interview, I was also asked about abortion. I tried to skirt the issue unsuccessfully by saying that I have no interest in OB so likely will never run into that issue. He told me to pretend I had a patient who was interested. So I had to present my views on abortion. Then I was asked about stem-cell-research. I was also asked to name 4 different ethical situations i may face as a doctor and how i would handle them.

I think the crux in most of these hot-button topics is to show that a) you know what you're getting yourself into as a doctor. b) you're educated in issues that affect doctors today c) that you can think critically about these issues d) that you have some idea of how to navigate them while staying within bounds of the U.S. legal system and the hippocratic oath (they don't want to let in a med student that will bring lawsuits galore).

Unfortunately, politics has gotten mixed up in medicine. Whereas I understand your desire to not include politics in your interview, I think it's something you're going to have to face as a doctor anyways.

Best of luck on everything.

 

[snaklee]

Why didn't you just tell him how you felt?

Who gives a flying rat about how he feels about how you feel.

If and I do say IF he was any type of grown man with any inregrity, if he disagreed with you, he'd allow you your opinion.

At least you'd maintain some intrgrity.

In my opinion, he sounds like a real snick.

 

[Anasazi23]

...I'm fairily moderate...

"fairly moderate?" Take a stance. You will eventually anyway. I would imagine that interviewers would rather you have a strong view in which you firmly believe than in wishy-washiness.

 

[KAR]

Let me give you an example:
At an interview, I was asked to name not just one, but FOUR problems in healthcare today, and their corresponding solutions. When I mentioned tort reform, my interviewer pointed out that we're harming patients who may actually have good cases. I told him he was right. At that same interview, I was also asked about abortion. I tried to skirt the issue unsuccessfully by saying that I have no interest in OB so likely will never run into that issue. He told me to pretend I had a patient who was interested. So I had to present my views on abortion. Then I was asked about stem-cell-research. I was also asked to name 4 different ethical situations i may face as a doctor and how i would handle them.

Whoa, where was this interview? This is way up on the difficulty scale.

 

[lightnk102]

Whoa, where was this interview? This is way up on the difficulty scale.

UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson.

 

[Kazema]

People have such strong opinions on these things that it always affects their opinion of you. This is why I haven't told ANYONE who I vopted for in the last election. People get so emotional over these things.

Yes, people have strong opinions of these things and it is definitely possible that depending on your stance, their opinion of you might be affected.

BUT

A lot of people will also change their opinion of you if you have no opinion or are afraid to state you opinion about an issue they care a lot about, especially one pertaining to their field, the field that you want to enter. My guess is that your interviewers noticed that you were avoiding the issue and not saying anything and may have assumed that you either know nothing about the issues surrounding your field or else that you have an opinion but were too afraid to express it because you weren't confident enough about yourself to defend your opinion. Neither is good. In their mind, you're either ignorant or weak: that's not going to help you to have your interviewers think that when they present you to the Adcom. Better to be labeled a liberal or conservative than ignorant and weak!

Even your justification about why you stayed quiet is not a good reason to stay quiet. You're going to encounter conflict as a doctor (or in ANY profession really) and part of becoming a professional is having opinions about real-life issues, understanding the pros and cons of your opinions, and being able to express them without being afraid of what others think about you. It's one thing to be "fairly moderate" because you take a liberal stance on some issues and conservative one on others, and quite another if you just simply don't care enough about any issue to take a stance. I thought I was "fairly moderate" until I actually educated myself about the issues. Then I realized that what I thought was "fairly moderate" was actually "completely uninformed".

I understand not wanting to get into political discussions, I usually don't like to either. But when an interviewer asks you directly about an issue important to the field of medicine, you really hurt yourself more by staying quiet than by taking a stance, any stance!

I'm not trying to bash you, and I don't think anyone in this thread is trying to bash you; we're just trying to give you some advice. Good luck with Arkansas!

 

[japhy]

kazema did an excellent job of expressing the words i had been trying to. i apologize if my tone seemed strident, acrobat. but kazema points out the serious drawbacks that come with "not expressing an opinion."

good luck with the rest of the interviews...

 

[dynx]

I have to agree with the general views expressed so far. I think the questions asked by your interviewers were questions that a medical school applicant should have thought about and been prepared to answer. I have asked those questions of applicants and when they give me a blank stare or a canned "I think that there are problems and we should address them" with out any specifics my evaluation will with out a doubt say that they lack knowledge or interest in the field, its the only conclusion that I can draw.
On the other hand if they say something that is in conflict with my general opinions but well informed and thought out, all I can say was that they were informed and had thought about the issue. If I tried to say that they were way off base in my evaluation the AC would ask me for specifics and if all I can come up with is that their view was different from mine, no more interviews for me.

Some more things, someone gave an answer to questions about abortion above...thats the right answer. I don't have to do it but I would inform them of thier options, give them advice and refer them to another Dr. if need be.

If you're doing research, know it inside and out, and know its application to real life...I hate when people know all the details and then you ask "so what (besides a publication) is the application of this research in the long run" and they stare at you like a deer in the head lights.

 

[SteelEyes]

Forgive me for not reading every thread, but I wanted to extend some of the interviewing advice I have learned over my experiences. I will be graduating from med school this may, so I have experience both with med school admissions and residency interviews.

1. Take a stand! When asked a difficult question, it seems politically correct to straddle the fence, but I think this is a bad idea. Admission people want people with both values and convictions. They don't need 150 students sitting on a fence . . . This leads me to big number 2.

2. BACK UP WHAT YOU SAY! No answer you give should end in a single sentence. Offer your answer then give justification for that response. This is critical as admissions people are trying to find out how you THINK! The answer is sometimes irrelevant compared to how you arrived at the answer!

3. Tell me about yourself. This was my single most hated question . . . at first. But then I realized that this is a great question because it puts the ball in your court. This gives you the opportunity to dictate the flow of conversation. Use this question to propel the conversation towards your strengths. DO NOT simply restate your application as an answer to this question! Do not say "I was born in blah, I lived with my mom and my dad, and I knew I wanted to be a doctor since the womb . . ." You should expect this question and rehearse an answer.

4. Strengths. This is your chance to set yourself apart. Try to distinguish yourself here. Everyone interviewing is probably intelligent. Show your empathy, communication skills, people interaction skills, ability to teach, MULTITASKING, time management, etc . . .

5. Weaknesses. Do NOT state a weakness without flipping it around to a positive! Example: I have always appeared young for my age, so I have always tried to act mature . . ."

6. Firm handshake. Your goal here is to crush the person's hand. Not literally, but a firm handshake goes a LONG way! This goes for women too. If I interview someone and they give me one of those finger shakes, they are OUT!

7. Eye contact. Enough said.

8. Dress the part. From my experiences, this is not a problem for 99% of people, but make sure you dress professionally.

9. Send thank you notes and follow up, especially if you get wait-listed.

10. Know that the interview is VERY important. A strong interview can make up for a less than stellar application.

Message me if you have any other questions. And good luck!