Confused in the Wake of My 3rd Application Cycle

[jacob42]

Hello everyone. I'm just coming off the back of my second failed app cycle in a row without any interviews now. I'm feeling very lost and confused.


For my first cycle, I had great stats (518 MCAT and 3.98 GPA), decent ECs (200 hrs detox/rehab center technician work for my clinical experience, 200ish hrs/1.5 yrs researching in a neuroscience lab w/ thesis defense to my school and also a regional poster conference, and 150 hrs volunteering as a crisis hotline call-taker). In addition, I had a good PS and decent letters according to my advisor. But unfortunately, I didn't get any IIs and felt confused.


To improve my app for this past cycle, I made a WAMC post last year here (Should I be worried?) and met with my advisor, and the conclusion I got was that I had a decent app, but I just needed to do a few things: keep working at my clinical experience to get more hours, do some in-person volunteering to complement the phone one I did, and apply more broadly to private schools, particularly though with lower stats (my school list was pretty balanced the first cycle, but had a lack of private schools and leaned more toward out of state public schools for my "safety" schools).


I ended up doing all of these: I got over 1000 hours more of clinical experience (same detox work), got 100 hrs doing in person volunteering during the winter/spring helping tutor ESL to African adults and also school subjects after school to children at an African community center, and applied to more of the private schools like I said above. However, I still didn't get any interviews this year, which has made me even more confused and distraught...


I'm wondering what I should be doing for a third cycle. I am very passionate about medicine, but I clearly am doing something wrong, but feel like I just can't see it. I'm going to do some "obvious" things to help, including applying earlier (some of my apps weren't done till Dec, though I thought since my stats were high for these schools that I'd get reviewed sooner since I know schools don't read apps in the order received... I cross-referenced this with Cycle Track too and I was well before the second round of interviews). I also plan to apply to DO schools and make the majority of my applications to the lower stat MD schools with the rest consisting of "match" private schools, my old state school that really hurts to be rejected from 2x, and some OOS friendly state schools like UVM/UVA/Iowa.


However, beyond this, and this is the most important point to me, I don't know what I can actually improve on and why I'm not getting *ANY* attention from schools despite, according to admit committee members here and my undergrad school advisor, having a very solid application. The things I listed above I will do because they're beneficial, but I feel like applying to DO schools for instance is something I shouldn't *have* to be doing given what I'm being told about my app... (Not that I'm not OK with them, but I wouldn't want to disadvantage my matching chances if I didn't have to type of thing, if that makes sense.)


**Basically, I want to "fix" whatever it is that I'm not doing "right" to get any attention from schools.** I'm meeting with my advisor as well, but I'd like more input as well from here if anyone is able and willing to. Is it my clinical experience? I'm getting patient exposure, taking vitals, doing checks, working with nurses and NPs and counselor, etc. I'll do something else if I should be, but I couldn't imagine why this wouldn't be good. My volunteering was relevant to mental health. My research relevant to drugs and behavior and my want to go into medicine. I talked about how all of these culminated in my interest in medicine in my PS as well.


Thank you very much for your help; it is greatly appreciated more than my words can say!

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[Faha]

Which schools did you apply to this past cycle? Do you have any in person physician shadowing hours? How many hours of non clinical volunteering hours do you have by category of activity?

 

[LindaAccepted]

Hello everyone. I'm just coming off the back of my second failed app cycle in a row without any interviews now. I'm feeling very lost and confused.


For my first cycle, I had great stats (518 MCAT and 3.98 GPA), decent ECs (200 hrs detox/rehab center technician work for my clinical experience, 200ish hrs/1.5 yrs researching in a neuroscience lab w/ thesis defense to my school and also a regional poster conference, and 150 hrs volunteering as a crisis hotline call-taker). In addition, I had a good PS and decent letters according to my advisor. But unfortunately, I didn't get any IIs and felt confused.


To improve my app for this past cycle, I made a WAMC post last year here (Should I be worried?) and met with my advisor, and the conclusion I got was that I had a decent app, but I just needed to do a few things: keep working at my clinical experience to get more hours, do some in-person volunteering to complement the phone one I did, and apply more broadly to private schools, particularly though with lower stats (my school list was pretty balanced the first cycle, but had a lack of private schools and leaned more toward out of state public schools for my "safety" schools).


I ended up doing all of these: I got over 1000 hours more of clinical experience (same detox work), got 100 hrs doing in person volunteering during the winter/spring helping tutor ESL to African adults and children and also school subjects after school to children at an African community center, and applied to more of the private schools like I said above. However, I still didn't get any interviews this year, which has made me even more confused and distraught...


I'm wondering what I should be doing for a third cycle. I am very passionate about medicine, but I clearly am doing something wrong, but feel like I just can't see it. I'm going to do some "obvious" things to help, including applying earlier (some of my apps weren't done till Dec, though I thought since my stats were high for these schools that I'd get reviewed sooner since I know schools don't read apps in the order received... I cross-referenced this with Cycle Track too and I was well before the second round of interviews). I also plan to apply to DO schools and make the majority of my applications to the lower stat MD schools with the rest consisting of "match" private schools, my old state school that really hurts to be rejected from 2x, and some OOS friendly state schools like UVM/UVA/Iowa.


However, beyond this, and this is the most important point to me, I don't know what I can actually improve on and why I'm not getting *ANY* attention from schools despite, according to admit committee members here and my undergrad school advisor, having a very solid application. The things I listed above I will do because they're beneficial, but I feel like applying to DO schools for instance is something I shouldn't *have* to be doing given what I'm being told about my app... (Not that I'm not OK with them, but I wouldn't want to disadvantage my matching chances if I didn't have to type of thing, if that makes sense.)


**Basically, I want to "fix" whatever it is that I'm not doing "right" to get any attention from schools.** I'm meeting with my advisor as well, but I'd like more input as well from here if anyone is able and willing to. Is it my clinical experience? I'm getting patient exposure, taking vitals, doing checks, working with nurses and NPs and counselor, etc. I'll do something else if I should be, but I couldn't imagine why this wouldn't be good. My volunteering was relevant to mental health. My research relevant to drugs and behavior and my want to go into medicine. I talked about how all of these culminated in my interest in medicine in my PS as well.


Thank you very much for your help; it is greatly appreciated more than my words can say!

When did you submit your primary and secondary applications this past cycle? (Dec is way too late.)

Regarding what you should be doing, while tutoring African children is definitely meritorious, you need more hours and I think you'd benefit from working with disadvantaged adults. This homeless shelter, food bank, soup kitchen, etc.

I know you say you've gotten good feedback on your essays and app, but given your numbers I really wonder if you presented yourself well.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

So you responded to our suggestion to do more in-person volunteering (because you have so many hours in crisis hotline) by primarily adding ESL teaching and general tutoring? (Hint: I'm shaking my head because I can't bang it on the table more. TLDR: tutoring/teaching are academic activities and do not add to service orientation which is what schools want to see... am I missing something?)

Maybe you are answering the wrong question. It's not "why are you passionate about medicine." For adcoms, what is your answer to "why should our school nurture your passion for medicine?" Even better, "how does our school nurture your passion for medicine?" How did you answer these questions in your primary and secondary applications?

Have you been able to connect with the admissions team at the old in-state program that rejected you twice? How clear did you make it that you grew up in that state and have a passion to return as a physician? Or is that not a passion?

I agree something is afoot with your writing and presentation if you have gone nil for interviews (can't remember if it's double nil for both cycles). I think it's articulating your mission fit, not your technical grammar or storytelling (unless you overplayed it).

 

[jacob42]

So you responded to our suggestion to do more in-person volunteering (because you have so many hours in crisis hotline) by primarily adding ESL teaching and general tutoring? (Hint: I'm shaking my head because I can't bang it on the table more. TLDR: tutoring/teaching are academic activities and do not add to service orientation which is what schools want to see... am I missing something?)

Maybe you are answering the wrong question. It's not "why are you passionate about medicine." For adcoms, what is your answer to "why should our school nurture your passion for medicine?" Even better, "how does our school nurture your passion for medicine?" How did you answer these questions in your primary and secondary applications?

Have you been able to connect with the admissions team at the old in-state program that rejected you twice? How clear did you make it that you grew up in that state and have a passion to return as a physician? Or is that not a passion?

I agree something is afoot with your writing and presentation if you have gone nil for interviews (can't remember if it's double nil for both cycles). I think it's articulating your mission fit, not your technical grammar or storytelling (unless you overplayed it).

It was volunteering at an African community center that offers free educational and other resources to the African people the local area, including US citizens as well as generationally recent emigrants from various African countries from all the ones I met as well as their children. The resources they offer are many (including financial and transportation assistance, etc), but the ones I was involved with were the adult ESL classes [the primary] and after school tutoring programs for the children--helping them learn, speak, and practice, since most of them emigrating here speak little English, if any. I'm confused how this is not considered valuable volunteer service. I was trying to leverage something I'm experience at (tutoring) in an underserved community in my area, rather than do some cookie cutter volunteer work like a soup kitchen. I mean, I'll do that, if that's what you're saying, but I guess I'm confused why what I did is not considered good.

And no, practically every school, including my state school, say right in the rejection email they do not offer personalized advice to applicants, so I would be unable to do that as much as I wanted to. I did mention that I've lived here all my life and would want to be here.

If it's my writing, I can try rewriting it, but all I'm doing is telling basing off the experiences I did and how all of them individually contributed to me ultimately wanting to pursue medicine. I don't think I was over the top at all. I don't think I have some Earth shattering essay either, but I think that what I wrote is a genuine and specific account of my passion in a decent/average way. So I can't really fundamentally rewrite what draws me to medicine, since what that ”is” is fundamentally the patient interactions, academic and research work, and volunteering and working with and in mental health patients and settings, without somehow changing that. Is my approach not the one I should be using?

 

[jacob42]

When did you submit your primary and secondary applications this past cycle? (Dec is way too late.)

Regarding what you should be doing, while tutoring African children is definitely meritorious, you need more hours and I think you'd benefit from working with disadvantaged adults. This homeless shelter, food bank, soup kitchen, etc.

I know you say you've gotten good feedback on your essays and app, but given your numbers I really wonder if you presented yourself well.

Primary was verified by early Aug. Most of my apps were completed by September, though some did leak into the later months, which I definitely wouldn't do next time. (But even to the schools to which I applied early, I didn't see a difference in responses.)

Well, like I said, it was mainly the ESL tutoring, which was go African adults exclusively, and also the subjects tutoring, which was to the children as part of the after school component. So I did work with adults definitely. I could get more hours in it. At the time of my last app, I had done it basically from the time of my post (winter of the application year) up until the time of my application on a normal weekly basis, so I couldn't have gotten more hours unless I had done multiple days of the week. I was also working full time as well then too.

As for the writing, I don't know, I did ask for criticism, but my advisor said mine was decent and only recommended small changes. I don't think what I have is ground breaking, but it is a genuine and specific account of how all the experiences I've had with clinical population, academic research, and volunteering all individually catalyzed me toward wanting to pursue medicine. I'm not sure what I should be doing differently.

 

[jacob42]

Which schools did you apply to this past cycle? Do you have any in person physician shadowing hours? How many hours of non clinical volunteering hours do you have by category of activity?

Here is the list. Tufts, UMass, Case west, Indiana, UVA, Vermont, Icahn, St Louis, Pittsburg, Emory, BU, Hofstra, Albert Einstein, Stony Brook, Quinnipiac, and Jefferson. Planned but did not apply to but will add next cycle Creighton, Wayne, Temple, and Virginia Commonwealth.

For whatever reason last cycle, my advisor said shadowing is OK but not necessary and seemed to think that I get that in person volunteering was more important, so that's what I ended up focusing on. But I can reconsider it I suppose.

I listed the hours for each of the categories above fairly exactly as well yes.

 

[Faha]

Here is the list. Tufts, UMass, Case west, Indiana, UVA, Vermont, Icahn, St Louis, Pittsburg, Emory, BU, Hofstra, Albert Einstein, Stony Brook, Quinnipiac, and Jefferson. Planned but did not apply to but will add next cycle Creighton, Wayne, Temple, and Virginia Commonwealth.

For whatever reason last cycle, my advisor said shadowing is OK but not necessary and seemed to think that I get that in person volunteering was more important, so that's what I ended up focusing on. But I can reconsider it I suppose.

I listed the hours for each of the categories above fairly exactly as well yes.

You should accumulate 40 hours of in person physician shadowing before you reapply. I suggest these schools with your stats:
UMass
Tufts
BU
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Albany
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
New York Medical College
Rochester
Pittsburgh
Penn State
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
George Washington
Georgetown
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
Wake Forest
Methodist (when it opens)
Belmont
NOVA MD
Tulane
Alice Walton
TCU
Creighton
St. Louis
Rosalind Franklin
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Wayne State
Iowa
Illinois
Colorado
Arizona (Phoenix)
Roseman

 

[Mr.Smile12]

It was volunteering at an African community center that offers free educational and other resources to the African people the local area, including US citizens as well as generationally recent emigrants from various African countries from all the ones I met as well as their children. The resources they offer are many (including financial and transportation assistance, etc), but the ones I was involved with were the adult ESL classes [the primary] and after school tutoring programs for the children--helping them learn, speak, and practice, since most of them emigrating here speak little English, if any. I'm confused how this is not considered valuable volunteer service. I was trying to leverage something I'm experience at (tutoring) in an underserved community in my area, rather than do some cookie cutter volunteer work like a soup kitchen. I mean, I'll do that, if that's what you're saying, but I guess I'm confused why what I did is not considered good.

MedEd specifically advised:
In order to increase your competitiveness you need to do three things:
1. Get some in-person non-clinical volunteering under your belt (soup kitchen, homeless shelter, etc.), 150 hours minimum.
2. Shadow a primary care doc (no more than 50 hours).
3. Broaden the private schools on your list to include places like Albany, NYMC, Quinnipiac, SLU, MCW, Tulane, Creighton, etc.

Your metrics are great, so improving your application is a pretty minor undertaking.

It's great that you have such opportunities at this community center. Why not continue working in the center but in other capacities you listed? Why not stretch out of your comfort zone a bit more?

Your description shows that your responsibilities reflect being a subject matter expert, and teaching/tutoring is an academic activity. Every premed does tutoring or teaching, including ESL classes, as it's in your comfort zone. This isn't a judgment about how valuable your service is; it's about service orientation expectations that help your application to medical school and could explain why you're staring at a third cycle. If you like teaching, you should become a teacher; we want you to be a teacher because med school is an academic environment where everyone is expected to teach and learn.

If it's my writing, I can try rewriting it, but all I'm doing is telling basing off the experiences I did and how all of them individually contributed to me ultimately wanting to pursue medicine. I don't think I was over the top at all. I don't think I have some Earth shattering essay either, but I think that what I wrote is a genuine and specific account of my passion in a decent/average way. So I can't really fundamentally rewrite what draws me to medicine, since what that ”is” is fundamentally the patient interactions, academic and research work, and volunteering and working with and in mental health patients and settings, without somehow changing

One more thing that adcoms look for: are you adaptable? Are you willing to learn? Are you willing to do things you don't want to do? It's okay to question or be resistant to doing whatever you are instructed to do, and it's fine to consider other possibilities. In the absence of direct feedback from admissions teams, we are making suggestions on how to show a significant improvement in your profile that addresses the desired attributes and competencies for a more fruitful outcome.

How many people read your work before and while you submitted your applications? What was your interview prep?

I know some very smart people who know how to adjust their personal essays and incorporate new information (from the immediate year) to build their narrative more. While your genesis story probably doesn't change much, your journey to medicine is hardly beginning and has likely changed you. That's the chapter we are curious about. I already pointed out, your essay is a great answer, but you could be answering the wrong question.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Primary was verified by early Aug. Most of my apps were completed by September, though some did leak into the later months, which I definitely wouldn't do next time. (But even to the schools to which I applied early, I didn't see a difference in responses.)

Well, like I said, it was mainly the ESL tutoring, which was go African adults exclusively, and also the subjects tutoring, which was to the children as part of the after school component. So I did work with adults definitely. I could get more hours in it. At the time of my last app, I had done it basically from the time of my post (winter of the application year) up until the time of my application on a normal weekly basis, so I couldn't have gotten more hours unless I had done multiple days of the week. I was also working full time as well then too.

As for the writing, I don't know, I did ask for criticism, but my advisor said mine was decent and only recommended small changes. I don't think what I have is ground breaking, but it is a genuine and specific account of how all the experiences I've had with clinical population, academic research, and volunteering all individually catalyzed me toward wanting to pursue medicine. I'm not sure what I should be doing differently.

Try to submit your primary app in June, not later and turn around all secondaries within two weeks. That is very difficult so pre-write secondaries after you submit the primaries for your in-state schools and the out of state ones that you are most interested in. Then when you get the applications, you can quickly turn those apps around after a quick review as opposed to starting from scratch.

We're also all assuming that your letters of recommendation are strong. If they aren't, that's a red flag. Perhaps get updated recs.

 

[jacob42]

MedEd specifically advised:
In order to increase your competitiveness you need to do three things:
1. Get some in-person non-clinical volunteering under your belt (soup kitchen, homeless shelter, etc.), 150 hours minimum.
2. Shadow a primary care doc (no more than 50 hours).
3. Broaden the private schools on your list to include places like Albany, NYMC, Quinnipiac, SLU, MCW, Tulane, Creighton, etc.

Your metrics are great, so improving your application is a pretty minor undertaking.

It's great that you have such opportunities at this community center. Why not continue working in the center but in other capacities you listed? Why not stretch out of your comfort zone a bit more?

Your description shows that your responsibilities reflect being a subject matter expert, and teaching/tutoring is an academic activity. Every premed does tutoring or teaching, including ESL classes, as it's in your comfort zone. This isn't a judgment about how valuable your service is; it's about service orientation expectations that help your application to medical school and could explain why you're staring at a third cycle. If you like teaching, you should become a teacher; we want you to be a teacher because med school is an academic environment where everyone is expected to teach and learn.



One more thing that adcoms look for: are you adaptable? Are you willing to learn? Are you willing to do things you don't want to do? It's okay to question or be resistant to doing whatever you are instructed to do, and it's fine to consider other possibilities. In the absence of direct feedback from admissions teams, we are making suggestions on how to show a significant improvement in your profile that addresses the desired attributes and competencies for a more fruitful outcome.

How many people read your work before and while you submitted your applications? What was your interview prep?

I know some very smart people who know how to adjust their personal essays and incorporate new information (from the immediate year) to build their narrative more. While your genesis story probably doesn't change much, your journey to medicine is hardly beginning and has likely changed you. That's the chapter we are curious about. I already pointed out, your essay is a great answer, but you could be answering the wrong question.

I did specifically talk about that in my crisis hotline experience, how for quite a while it was very confusing and awkward to know what to say and to immediately go into "autopilot" mode trying to offer specific advice, but slowly had to reorient how I fundamentally aporoached "helping" by instead doing a lot more listening and validation rather than trying to be a "fixer," and I think this showed development of empathic ability that was uncomfortable, difficult, and foreign to how I would have approach it before. This is the type of thing you mean, right?

Are you saying I should do something like this, that's intentionally uncomfortable or not in my skillset, but in person? I just wanted to mention that because it's not like my application is devoid of struggles... But I just want to make sure I'm reading you right. And then, presumably talk about how I chose this to expand my skill set to work with z type of people that I didn't have before?

I've definitely gained this from my clinical detox experience as well, so are you also suggesting I should focus more on this aspect of my experiences in my descriptions of them, rather than just why it strengthened my passion for medicine?

I did talk about this in the ESL experience as well: how it helped me work with patients I can't even directly communicate with and opened my eyes to how I might interact with them. So, again, it's not like there wasn't this aspect of my application. But you're suggesting I need to do more of this type of thing specifically?

Thanks.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I did specifically talk about that in my crisis hotline experience, how for quite a while it was very confusing and awkward to know what to say and to immediately go into "autopilot" mode trying to offer specific advice, but slowly had to reorient how I fundamentally aporoached "helping" by instead doing a lot more listening and validation rather than trying to be a "fixer," and I think this showed development of empathic ability that was uncomfortable, difficult, and foreign to how I would have approach it before. This is the type of thing you mean, right?

Isn't that part of how you are trained as a counselor? I am not sure about the value of admitting that you were awkward and confused when you started; it tells me that the only training you had was on-the-job/fly. That doesn't give me confidence about your activity being an asset to starting as a medical student with a patient on day one. It just says you're showing up with a toolkit with just a flathead screwdriver. Sure, ti's cathartic and honest to say you're nervous, but as a professional, you still have to nail the landing.

Are you saying I should do something like this, that's intentionally uncomfortable or not in my skillset, but in person? I just wanted to mention that because it's not like my application is devoid of struggles... But I just want to make sure I'm reading you right. And then, presumably talk about how I chose this to expand my skill set to work with z type of people that I didn't have before?

I've definitely gained this from my clinical detox experience as well, so are you also suggesting I should focus more on this aspect of my experiences in my descriptions of them, rather than just why it strengthened my passion for medicine?

I did talk about this in the ESL experience as well: how it helped me work with patients I can't even directly communicate with and opened my eyes to how I might interact with them. So, again, it's not like there wasn't this aspect of my application. But you're suggesting I need to do more of this type of thing specifically?

I guess you can get a variety of opinions about this, but if you just focus on your struggles and how you "McGyver" your way out of things, it gives me mixed signals. Our current era embraces one's struggles and resilience, but applicants must embrace the victories and lessons learned from gaining skills/tools for the toolbox.

One of the key competencies on the AAMC list is being a continuous/lifelong learner. See how I address this in the SDN competency articles.

How to Assess Your Pre-Professional Competencies - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Consider that the toolkit consists of the AAMC competencies; each experience should work on a combination of these (esp preprof) competencies. I don't know what goals you set for yourself to be a better teacher or counselor, or what mentors you leaned on to become a better teacher. How do you know you are effective as a teacher? Why is this relevant to being a better doctor, as you can be a great teacher as a Ph.D. or an M.D./D.O. without having to do clinical medicine. Heck, we need great teachers in law school, undergrad, dance/art/humanities, cooking, and even drivers ed.

There are plenty of physicians who taught others before they get into medical school, and we still have complaints about patients not understanding or trusting physicians. If you want to highlight your empathy, give me the MANY ways you have done so, including in your non-clilnical, non-academic service orientation activities.

If you want a different analogy: I've been watching the Food Network Tournament of Champions. The winning chefs have an awareness of game strategy that includes "the Randomizer" by highlighting at least one of the mandatory items in more than one way. I'm asking for you to highlight how the benefits of teaching ESL students shows up in your other activities when it comes to interpersonal communication, empathy, and cultural humility (if I were to pick some competencies to spotlight). What other experiences reinforce your skills: "how it helped me work with patients I can't even directly communicate with and opened my eyes to how I might interact with them"? Show me how outside of a classroom, when you aren't the expert.

 

[HuskyMD Emeritus]

If getting interviews were based on grades, MCAT and activities, then you should have gotten some. Since you didn't get any interview invites for 2 cycles there must be something amiss in your personal statement, most meaningful experience essays or recommendations.
As everyone has said, clinical experience and community service are vital to your application. I greatly respect the wise advisers on SDN who have much more experience than I do on medical school applications (have only been reviewing apps and interviewing the past 3 cycles) regarding types of community service but I differ from them regarding what I value in terms of type of activities. I do value teaching, especially as volunteer teacher/tutor to those lacking resources. Regardless of your activity, whether volunteering at a free clinic, soup kitchen, hospice, homeless shelter or teaching, what I look for is how these activities will make you a better doctor and whether your activities demonstrate commitment . FYI, almost all most applicants give the generic lessons of listening, empathy, wanting to end the inequities in healthcare and society; many of these also sound superficial (inequities in healthcare would have been a thing of the past if all the applicants over the past 2 decades were truly committed as they said they were in their applications).
In your writing, it's important to also demonstrate reflection, humility, gratitude. Any hint of entitlement is a huge turn off.
Finally, at least on this forum, most applicants say they have strong LORs. How do you know (you signed a confidentiality statement about not having access to them)? Majority of LORs say the same thing so a not as strong, but not bad, LOR will doom the application.
Just a few of my thoughts....
You are aspiring to be in a great profession, wishing you and all the applicants the best in the next cycle.

 

[jacob42]

Isn't that part of how you are trained as a counselor? I am not sure about the value of admitting that you were awkward and confused when you started; it tells me that the only training you had was on-the-job/fly. That doesn't give me confidence about your activity being an asset to starting as a medical student with a patient on day one. It just says you're showing up with a toolkit with just a flathead screwdriver. Sure, ti's cathartic and honest to say you're nervous, but as a professional, you still have to nail the landing.

I mean, the training is training, not actual call taking. So it can only prepare you so well. I showed growth by giving an example of a call, realized how my approach wasn't working with the client, and then basing off of the clients specific needs, I changed my approach mid call and ended with a much more effective call. I'm not sure how showing adaptability and growth doesn't inspire confidence that I have those assets they're looking for.

I guess you can get a variety of opinions about this, but if you just focus on your struggles and how you "McGyver" your way out of things, it gives me mixed signals. Our current era embraces one's struggles and resilience, but applicants must embrace the victories and lessons learned from gaining skills/tools for the toolbox.

Right. And I do. I talk about how after the initial learning phase, I act as a much more effective call taker, or detox technician, or what have you. Maybe I'm not doing what I'm saying justice, because do feel I've been addressing this point in my app.

One of the key competencies on the AAMC list is being a continuous/lifelong learner. See how I address this in the SDN competency articles.

How to Assess Your Pre-Professional Competencies - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Consider that the toolkit consists of the AAMC competencies; each experience should work on a combination of these (esp preprof) competencies. I don't know what goals you set for yourself to be a better teacher or counselor, or what mentors you leaned on to become a better teacher. How do you know you are effective as a teacher?

Well, it helps me connect with the client/patient faster, make them trust me more. For example in crisis hotline volunteering, it allows me to turn a crying, depressed teenager into a laughing one who feels better about her place in the world and agrees to keep fighting and keep in touch if needed. This has obvious translational skills into medicine for patient rapport building, compliance, etc. I mentioned in my primary how this, in addition with learning how to drive conversations better, were vital skills for being a clinician. Is this the type of thing you mean?

In detox work, I talked about how the diversity in patient population and their situations and talking to them opened my eyes to how treatment isn't cookie cutter and must be individualized to patients and their situations, and how forming connections with them leads to them opening up and thanking you, allowing for them to get through their medical treatment more easily and better rapport building (which translate into lessened anxiety, increased compliance, better rapport/trust, better information gathering for dx and treatment choices whether pharmacological or suggesting extra interventions like out of therapy or both). Should I state that last part in parentheses more explicitly in how it ought to translate?

In another example in a secondary, I talked about how I'd gotten better at getting patients to admit they had contraband on them, allowing faster medical intervention by us. Perhaps I could adapt that into my primary experience description.

Why is this relevant to being a better doctor, as you can be a great teacher as a Ph.D. or an M.D./D.O. without having to do clinical medicine. Heck, we need great teachers in law school, undergrad, dance/art/humanities, cooking, and even drivers ed.

There are plenty of physicians who taught others before they get into medical school, and we still have complaints about patients not understanding or trusting physicians. If you want to highlight your empathy, give me the MANY ways you have done so, including in your non-clilnical, non-academic service orientation activities.

As above, I already feel I do to some degree. But it sounds like I should be even more explicit and give more examples somehow? Say "enhanced rapport building skills with future patients" over "enhanced rapport building skills and ability to connect to people as a call taker [or x activity]." I

I only have so much room, but if this is THE most important part, perhaps I can further summarize the actual description part to give an extra example of this translational component for my activities, if you think this is worth doing.

For most of my descriptions, I decided to go very in depth in one example and highlight how that enhanced my skills. So I should more explicitly. So when you emphasize "MANY," should I be talking about many examples, but in less detail, rather than talking about one, but in great depth? It was always my understanding that quality trumped quantity, but I can revisit this if I should.

If you want a different analogy: I've been watching the Food Network Tournament of Champions. The winning chefs have an awareness of game strategy that includes "the Randomizer" by highlighting at least one of the mandatory items in more than one way. I'm asking for you to highlight how the benefits of teaching ESL students shows up in your other activities when it comes to interpersonal communication, empathy, and cultural humility (if I were to pick some competencies to spotlight). What other experiences reinforce your skills: "how it helped me work with patients I can't even directly communicate with and opened my eyes to how I might interact with them"? Show me how outside of a classroom, when you aren't the expert.

I ended up using my call taking, detox, and research experiences as my top 3 important ones, so to do this, I would have to remove one of those and make the ESL my 3 most important experiences. (Regarding the one I haven't talked about, the research, I highlighted how through consulting literature, careful observation. trial and error, and collaboration, I came to appreciate and enjoy the research process as a powerful tool to fully understand symptoms on both the behavioral and neurobiological levels, which allows for a better ability to treat them.) However, I could replace this with the ESL experience. But I wonder how, in accord with the other examples, this is a good or bad approach to what you're saying as well?

 

[jacob42]

If getting interviews were based on grades, MCAT and activities, then you should have gotten some. Since you didn't get any interview invites for 2 cycles there must be something amiss in your personal statement, most meaningful experience essays or recommendations.

I would have thought so, but my advisor insists that my letters were all good, and that my PS or experience essays would only need minor revisions. The only thing I can now think of, bouncing off of 🙂's response, is that maybe I should spend a larger portion of text connecting the skills I described learned to medicine. Even though I already do, but maybe I could increase it even more? I would think it terrible that I didn't get any interviews because the ratio of how I talked about these wasn't enough, but I can certainly try that...

Other than that, I'm not sure what else I ought to change about them.

As everyone has said, clinical experience and community service are vital to your application. I greatly respect the wise advisers on SDN who have much more experience than I do on medical school applications (have only been reviewing apps and interviewing the past 3 cycles) regarding types of community service but I differ from them regarding what I value in terms of type of activities. I do value teaching, especially as volunteer teacher/tutor to those lacking resources. Regardless of your activity, whether volunteering at a free clinic, soup kitchen, hospice, homeless shelter or teaching, what I look for is how these activities will make you a better doctor and whether your activities demonstrate commitment . FYI, almost all most applicants give the generic lessons of listening, empathy, wanting to end the inequities in healthcare and society; many of these also sound superficial (inequities in healthcare would have been a thing of the past if all the applicants over the past 2 decades were truly committed as they said they were in their applications).

Yeah, no, I hate this type of "holier than thou" writing even more than adcoms do I think. I exclusively talk about my journey in relation with other clients and how I improved to help them, not how I am vs. anyone else in my position.

In your writing, it's important to also demonstrate reflection, humility, gratitude. Any hint of entitlement is a huge turn off.
Finally, at least on this forum, most applicants say they have strong LORs. How do you know (you signed a confidentiality statement about not having access to them)?

I only have to go on what my advisor tells me, which is that mine were good. In addition, it was she that wrote my committee letter as well.

Majority of LORs say the same thing so a not as strong, but not bad, LOR will doom the application.

Seriously? It was my understanding from multiple forums posts that 10% of letters were godly, 10% were abhorrent, and 80% were "decent/good enough" that support the application, but don't significantly help or hinder the app, and certainly not "doom" it.

Just a few of my thoughts....
You are aspiring to be in a great profession, wishing you and all the applicants the best in the next cycle.

Thank you.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I mean, the training is training, not actual call taking. So it can only prepare you so well. I showed growth by giving an example of a call, realized how my approach wasn't working with the client, and then basing off of the clients specific needs, I changed my approach mid call and ended with a much more effective call. I'm not sure how showing adaptability and growth doesn't inspire confidence that I have those assets they're looking for.

Right. And I do. I talk about how after the initial learning phase, I act as a much more effective call taker, or detox technician, or what have you. Maybe I'm not doing what I'm saying justice, because do feel I've been addressing this point in my app.

Well, it helps me connect with the client/patient faster, make them trust me more. For example in crisis hotline volunteering, it allows me to turn a crying, depressed teenager into a laughing one who feels better about her place in the world and agrees to keep fighting and keep in touch if needed. This has obvious translational skills into medicine for patient rapport building, compliance, etc. I mentioned in my primary how this, in addition with learning how to drive conversations better, were vital skills for being a clinician. Is this the type of thing you mean?

In detox work, I talked about how the diversity in patient population and their situations and talking to them opened my eyes to how treatment isn't cookie cutter and must be individualized to patients and their situations, and how forming connections with them leads to them opening up and thanking you, allowing for them to get through their medical treatment more easily and better rapport building (which translate into lessened anxiety, increased compliance, better rapport/trust, better information gathering for dx and treatment choices whether pharmacological or suggesting extra interventions like out of therapy or both). Should I state that last part in parentheses more explicitly in how it ought to translate?

In another example in a secondary, I talked about how I'd gotten better at getting patients to admit they had contraband on them, allowing faster medical intervention by us. Perhaps I could adapt that into my primary experience description.

As above, I already feel I do to some degree. But it sounds like I should be even more explicit and give more examples somehow? Say "enhanced rapport building skills with future patients" over "enhanced rapport building skills and ability to connect to people as a call taker [or x activity]." I

I only have so much room, but if this is THE most important part, perhaps I can further summarize the actual description part to give an extra example of this translational component for my activities, if you think this is worth doing.

For most of my descriptions, I decided to go very in depth in one example and highlight how that enhanced my skills. So I should more explicitly. So when you emphasize "MANY," should I be talking about many examples, but in less detail, rather than talking about one, but in great depth? It was always my understanding that quality trumped quantity, but I can revisit this if I should.

I ended up using my call taking, detox, and research experiences as my top 3 important ones, so to do this, I would have to remove one of those and make the ESL my 3 most important experiences. (Regarding the one I haven't talked about, the research, I highlighted how through consulting literature, careful observation. trial and error, and collaboration, I came to appreciate and enjoy the research process as a powerful tool to fully understand symptoms on both the behavioral and neurobiological levels, which allows for a better ability to treat them.) However, I could replace this with the ESL experience. But I wonder how, in accord with the other examples, this is a good or bad approach to what you're saying as well?

The point is that your strategy and explanations got you ZERO interviews. The question is whether you are willing to change and be adaptable. You say you are when you describe your experiences, but you aren't so adaptable when it comes to changing your approach for an application. You have an audience response that your masterpiece writing went over like a lead balloon.

That's why you're confused. You'd rather explain and justify why your approach is right versus considering how readers receive them. We gave you suggestions for the last cycle, and I give you my impressions based on what you said you wrote (not your actual application). Sure, perhaps you're right with your thinking... but you still stand on zero interviews.

 

[jacob42]

The point is that your strategy and explanations got you ZERO interviews. The question is whether you are willing to change and be adaptable. You say you are when you describe your experiences, but you aren't so adaptable when it comes to chan approach for an application. You have an audience response that your masterpiece writing went over like a lead balloon.

That's why you're confused. You'd rather explain and justify why your approach is right versus considering how readers receive them. I give you my impressions based on what you said you wrote and not what you wrote, so perhaps you're right... but you still stand on zero interviews.

I only asked for clarification of what you're saying. I'm not trying to "justify" my approach. I'm not sure where you got that from. I'm just trying to explain my approach and figure out what's wrong with it. I AM trying to change my approach. But I don't know WHAT I should be changing about my application, hence why I'm trying to understand what you're saying...

You say I need to show how I'm adaptable. I explained in my descriptions how I thought I changed and became adaptable. I'm therefore trying to understand WHAT about my approach is not doing that, not "justify" anything. Because clearly, what I'm describing isn't a good enough example of that according to your bar, if that is my issue.

And right when I thought I finally understood you, when I highlighted my examples and asked if I should be doing MORE of x, you're not saying anything to that effect. So that makes me think I'm STILL misinterpreting you, or am I not?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I only asked for clarification of what you're saying. I'm not trying to "justify" my approach. I'm not sure where you got that from. I'm just trying to explain my approach and figure out what's wrong with it. I AM trying to change my approach. But I don't know WHAT I should be changing about my application, hence why I'm trying to understand what you're saying...

I get it. My response was that maybe it's not a good idea to go emo to the reader. I get being anxious, but is this the professional first-impression you want to convey?

You say I need to show how I'm adaptable. I explained in my descriptions how I thought I changed and became adaptable. I'm therefore trying to understand WHAT about my approach is not doing that, not "justify" anything. Because clearly, what I'm describing isn't a good enough example of that according to your bar, if that is my issue.

Well, thank you for pointing out the issue. That's not the impression I got from your long reply.

And right when I thought I finally understood you, when I highlighted my examples and asked if I should be doing MORE of x, you're not saying anything to that effect. So that makes me think I'm STILL misinterpreting you, or am I not?

Yes... I think you haven't excluded the issue of your writing approach as being the problem. You can do more, but it may be more effective or efficient to reframe your philosophy. Your audience isn't impressed by more hours (once you have a sufficient number); they are impressed about what the experience means to you and your future peers and patients. Quality is as important as quantity.

 

[sciencerules135]

Hi! I am a fellow rep applicant who had a much more successful second cycle. I wanted to jump in here and also provide some of my advice because I did use a writing company this time around and I do think that helped but I also got some excellent advice from the people here on SDN. The big thing that I think changed between cycles was after thinking I was ready and super equipped to get into medical school and start right away with my extracurriculars and my experiences, I didn’t. I too felt like everything on my application was solid and that I was a pretty decent applicant. Maybe I was a bit entitled too. And I think you’re coming off in a similar manner on your applications. It’s most certainly not on purpose and ur more than qualified, but that could be a major reason. Medical schools do not like entitlement.However, after lots of reflection and not being successful for the first time around, I realized I really didn’t know the complexities and day-to-day role of a physician. I needed to do more clinical work in primary care, more shadowing, and more serving of the community. Although it’s frustrating and feels like a lot of hoops to jump through at times, medical schools do want you to do all of those things and serve the people that are really different from you.

1. I think you definitely need to get some experience working in primary care and shadowing in primary care. Primary care is the first line of defense for absolutely everything in healthcare. There is also a large shortage of doctors in primary care. I know I do not particularly wanna go into primary care, but nearly every medical school these days has an emphasis on primary care or some sort of essay that relies on your experiences in it it to answer. it also showed me so much about healthcare that I didn’t previously know and I think that’s why so many schools do you want applicants to have that experience. This is a must for your next go around.

2. Between application cycles, I had the opportunity to do some re-application sessions and every single one of them said the same thing to me. “ You got put in the no pile immediately because you didn’t have 150+ community service hours directly serving the homeless or in a food bank” at this point after a failed application cycle and realizing I had zero community service hours I was really discouraged because getting all these things done in undergrad can feel very overwhelming. However, medical schools want you to serve the underserved because you do that every day in healthcare when becoming a physician. This became a top priority for me. I realized I needed to get a lot of food bank hours where I’m directly serving people that are below the poverty line or are homeless. All of the tutoring you have done is great but medical schools want this kind of thing specifically.

3. After getting all these experiences and learning so much more going into my second cycle, I knew the one last thing I had to do was fix my writing. It sounds like you are a really good writer and I do think from the examples you’ve given here you have a good way of portraying yourself in your essays. But it couldn’t hurt to get another set of eyes. I’m the type of writer that I know what I wanna say but I sometimes don’t express it correctly. I also think you have to remember when you’re writing essays you know what the story is. So sometimes it’s hard to separate: Would the reader know that or do I just know the answer to the story and I understand the context because it’s my story? This is a big mistake applicants make and I think this can lead to a solid application STAT wise not going anywhere. I also think having a company or a professional edit is helpful. They are an extremely unbiased edit and they will tell you if your essay isn’t strong enough or doesn’t answer the prompt. Going along with this: between cycles I also made sure that there was a strong theme throughout all of my answers that really showed the type of physician I wanted to be. I think that maybe is what is the other thing that’s holding you back. Is your mission fit properly portrayed in all your essays? If I read your secondary essays, would I know the type of physician you want to be, the patient population you want to serve, and how you would work with others? Maybe getting a second set of eyes would help make sure your theme and mission fit is properly being portrayed!

With all that being said, I think you do have a really really strong application and I do think you have a really cool story that maybe you just need to switch up how you’re portraying. I am shocked you have not gotten more success, but I do think this next go around will be much more successful, especially if you include applying to DO’s. I am happy to answer any other specific questions you may have.

For reference: first cycle 1MD II->1 WL
second: 10 DO II + 3MD II->5 DO A(only attended 7, 2WL) + 2MD A

 

[LindaAccepted]

I would have thought so, but my advisor insists that my letters were all good, and that my PS or experience essays would only need minor revisions. The only thing I can now think of, bouncing off of 🙂's response, is that maybe I should spend a larger portion of text connecting the skills I described learned to medicine. Even though I already do, but maybe I could increase it even more? I would think it terrible that I didn't get any interviews because the ratio of how I talked about these wasn't enough, but I can certainly try that...

Other than that, I'm not sure what else I ought to change about them.


Yeah, no, I hate this type of "holier than thou" writing even more than adcoms do I think. I exclusively talk about my journey in relation with other clients and how I improved to help them, not how I am vs. anyone else in my position.

I only have to go on what my advisor tells me, which is that mine were good. In addition, it was she that wrote my committee letter as well.

Seriously? It was my understanding from multiple forums posts that 10% of letters were godly, 10% were abhorrent, and 80% were "decent/good enough" that support the application, but don't significantly help or hinder the app, and certainly not "doom" it.

Thank you.

I'm sure you have a good, well-intentioned advisor. No criticism intended. However, the approach didn't work. Have someone else also review your app. If you are making mistakes or presenting yourself in a less than optimal way, isn't it worth your while to find out now? At least get a "second opinion" from someone knowledgeable in med admissions. If they provide the same feedback as your advisor, then you were simply a victim of the numbers, the intense competition for seats in med schools. If they provide different feedback, then you may see that a different approach could be more effective and you'll be able to pursue that other approach.

As @Mr.Smile12 has said in other threads, there are many ways to approach writing an essay or presenting yourself via the application. There is also more than one good way to write an essay, not to mention several. Consider the possibility of a different approach and you may have a different outcome.

But there are limits to the specific advice you can get in a forum setting from people who haven't seen your applications.

 

[jacob42]

OK, thank you everyone for your continued help. The biggest takeaways I'm getting is my portrayal/writing, which I'm definitely going to try to rethink somehow, and getting more and "better" volunteering.

For the writing, I'll try and change my approach somehow. I don't really know if spending 1000s of dollars I don't really have on one of those services is responsible or how helpful they truly are, but I don't know who else to ask for help then if not my school advisors. The one I'm talking with now is the head pre med advisor at my school. I will probably ask her who else I can ask for application advice though the next time we meet.

I am going back to recalculate my hours because my advisor had mentioned that in passing as well, so hopefully I can increase those. Other than that, regarding volunteering, as it's so late before the next cycle now, I can't really change that part unless I use that "anticipated hours" section and committ to volunteer somewhere else needy (or increase the hours I have at current places), and I'm not really sure how that reflects. It also seems like the places I'm passionate about volunteering, like the suicide crisis hotline, don't count as valid or underserved volunteering though (even though in reality they are starvingly underserved), and I need to target what adcoms views as traditionally "underserved" communities like soup kitchens and stuff. But that hinges on the anticipated hours thing, which I'm unsure about is seen as valid?

I can also consider the shadowing, which might be easier to get in a shorter timeframe than a new volunteering experience. I will ask about that as well to her when we meet.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Sounds like a plan, but "anticipated hours" carry no weight or leverage in screening. Otherwise, everyone would be tempted to exaggerate the anticipated hours as a gameplay strategy for an interview.

 

[chilly_md]

It's been mentioned here and in your thread last year but you did not get much service.

got 100 hrs doing in person volunteering during the winter/spring helping tutor ESL to African adults and also school subjects after school to children at an African community center

The above did not meet my recommendation for "ideally 200-250 hours at an in-person place like soup kitchen, homeless shelter, etc before reapplying." Also no clue why you didn't get shadowing after it was mentioned here.

Tufts, UMass, Case west, Indiana, UVA, Vermont, Icahn, St Louis, Pittsburg, Emory, BU, Hofstra, Albert Einstein, Stony Brook, Quinnipiac, and Jefferson

I usually recommend applicants apply to 30, give or take, schools, not half that amount. Particularly for a reapplicant. Whichever of the above that you finished the secondary in Nov or Dec was basically an app that was DOA.

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

Realistically, you didn't get in because you're only applying for like 15 schools as a reapplicant, and the schools are kind of a hodgepodge for mission fit, geography, etc. Apply to 30 MD + whatever DO schools you like most, I'd be surprised if you didn't get in next time.

 

[ophthoaspirant]

Here is the list. Tufts, UMass, Case west, Indiana, UVA, Vermont, Icahn, St Louis, Pittsburg, Emory, BU, Hofstra, Albert Einstein, Stony Brook, Quinnipiac, and Jefferson. Planned but did not apply to but will add next cycle Creighton, Wayne, Temple, and Virginia Commonwealth.

For whatever reason last cycle, my advisor said shadowing is OK but not necessary and seemed to think that I get that in person volunteering was more important, so that's what I ended up focusing on. But I can reconsider it I suppose.

I listed the hours for each of the categories above fairly exactly as well yes.

Think about how good your LORs are….one or more lukewarm LORs might be hurting you.

 

[LindaAccepted]

OK, thank you everyone for your continued help. The biggest takeaways I'm getting is my portrayal/writing, which I'm definitely going to try to rethink somehow, and getting more and "better" volunteering.

For the writing, I'll try and change my approach somehow. I don't really know if spending 1000s of dollars I don't really have on one of those services is responsible or how helpful they truly are, but I don't know who else to ask for help then if not my school advisors. The one I'm talking with now is the head pre med advisor at my school. I will probably ask her who else I can ask for application advice though the next time we meet.

I sympathize with your financial constraints, but you already spent thousands of dollars applying (unless you applied via FAP) not to mention tens of thousands in lost income.

I am going back to recalculate my hours because my advisor had mentioned that in passing as well, so hopefully I can increase those. Other than that, regarding volunteering, as it's so late before the next cycle now, I can't really change that part unless I use that "anticipated hours" section and committ to volunteer somewhere else needy (or increase the hours I have at current places), and I'm not really sure how that reflects. It also seems like the places I'm passionate about volunteering, like the suicide crisis hotline, don't count as valid or underserved volunteering though (even though in reality they are starvingly underserved), and I need to target what adcoms views as traditionally "underserved" communities like soup kitchens and stuff. But that hinges on the anticipated hours thing, which I'm unsure about is seen as valid?

I can also consider the shadowing, which might be easier to get in a shorter timeframe than a new volunteering experience. I will ask about that as well to her when we meet.

 

[jacob42]

It's been mentioned here and in your thread last year but you did not get much service.

At the time of me writing that post, it was around Jan. I searched for a volunteer experiences I felt I would be able to make a real impact at and tie into my application, which took a few weeks to find, reach out to places, interview with them, and get acquainted with the program. When I started in February, I was volunteering every week in addition to working full time. The adult ESL classes went on for about 3 hours every morning and I would sometimes stay after for the children's after school programs to get more hours as well. Doing that every week on a day I wasn't working up until the point when the classes ended/I was submitting my primary in the summer ended up being about 100 hours.

The above did not meet my recommendation for "ideally 200-250 hours at an in-person place like soup kitchen, homeless shelter, etc before reapplying."

Even if I went two days a week, which would have been difficult while working full time as well, I would get 3*2=6 plus maybe a couple more if I came back later for the children's sessions. Even if I somehow managed to get 10 a week, it wouldn't have physically been possible thru Feb, Mar, Apr, and May to get 200-250 hours before AMCAS opened for submission. So that's the reason why that didn't happen. The bulk of my hours were going toward gaining more clinical experience and saving money.

Also no clue why you didn't get shadowing after it was mentioned here.

My advisor said it wasn't really necessary given all the clinical experience I'd end up with and to focus on the volunteering at that point.

I usually recommend applicants apply to 30, give or take, schools, not half that amount. Particularly for a reapplicant. Whichever of the above that you finished the secondary in Nov or Dec was basically an app that was DOA.

True, but the schools I *did* apply to were mainly private schools with stats either on par with or below mine as opposed to the wider range of schools I applied to last time, many of which were also state schools (and even though they had high OOS acceptance on paper I learned from you guys last time this is inflated by people with a tie to the state). So I figured that the quality of the school choices was much higher and made up for the lesser numerical amount.

But yes, for the third cycle, I agree it makes no sense not to utilize both strategies and apply to more and will be applying to more.

 

[jacob42]

I met with my advisor a few weeks ago, and she heard back from a UMass committee member she sent my application too. The gist I heard was that my application was fine, but didn't seem to stand out enough. Advisor thinks I might be holding something back and recommended I for example write about what led to my interest in my experiences like addiction medicine (I had issues w mental health mainly and some substances and took a leave of absence my freshman year, which I mentioned in my PS but only insofar as how all that free time which was during COVID led to me becoming interested in medicine, but she thinks I should open up more about how those issues catalyzed my interest and the experiences I did specifically (pharmacology/neuroscience research, detox clinic work, and crisis hotline)--it could add character of a genuine struggle and context for this but I'm not sure if it's too much of a red flag to specify).

Also, seeing a recommendation online, I've been reading Dr. Grays Personal Statement book. The emphasis really seems to be on telling the Personal Statement in a very narrative form to show (not telling) how your experiences impacted you and made you want to become a physician. I think my current personal statement describes well why my various experiences empassioned me to want to become a physician, seeing how theoretical biology can be leveraged to cause actual behavioral/clinical outcomes and to individualize treatment and care for the patient by connecting with them. I do some "showing not telling" by mentioning specific accounts with patients, but I also state my reasons directly, so the impression I’m getting is I need to do it an engaging and narrative way that doesn't even state it. That and I have to not only talk about why my experiences made me passionate but make the reader themselves passionate about reading it. I'm now wondering if that could have been the difference between getting interviews and not. And I'm hoping I'm thinking in the right direction.

I also put many of my specific narrative accounts in my most important experience sections because I thought thats where they were relevant, but I'm honestly wondering by putting them in that section and the broader overview of how my experiences fit in the bigger picture of medicine in the PS was backward and meant that they weren't hooked enough by the PS to look at the rest and I shot myself in the foot.

 

[LindaAccepted]

I met with my advisor a few weeks ago, and she heard back from a UMass committee member she sent my application too. The gist I heard was that my application was fine, but didn't seem to stand out enough. Advisor thinks I might be holding something back and recommended I for example write about what led to my interest in my experiences like addiction medicine (I had issues w mental health mainly and some substances and took a leave of absence my freshman year, which I mentioned in my PS but only insofar as how all that free time which was during COVID led to me becoming interested in medicine, but she thinks I should open up more about how those issues catalyzed my interest and the experiences I did specifically (pharmacology/neuroscience research, detox clinic work, and crisis hotline)--it could add character of a genuine struggle and context for this but I'm not sure if it's too much of a red flag to specify).

Also, seeing a recommendation online, I've been reading Dr. Grays Personal Statement book. The emphasis really seems to be on telling the Personal Statement in a very narrative form to show (not telling) how your experiences impacted you and made you want to become a physician. I think my current personal statement describes well why my various experiences empassioned me to want to become a physician, seeing how theoretical biology can be leveraged to cause actual behavioral/clinical outcomes and to individualize treatment and care for the patient by connecting with them. I do some "showing not telling" by mentioning specific accounts with patients, but I also state my reasons directly, so the impression I’m getting is I need to do it an engaging and narrative way that doesn't even state it. That and I have to not only talk about why my experiences made me passionate but make the reader themselves passionate about reading it. I'm now wondering if that could have been the difference between getting interviews and not. And I'm hoping I'm thinking in the right direction.

I also put many of my specific narrative accounts in my most important experience sections because I thought thats where they were relevant, but I'm honestly wondering by putting them in that section and the broader overview of how my experiences fit in the bigger picture of medicine in the PS was backward and meant that they weren't hooked enough by the PS to look at the rest and I shot myself in the foot.

A good PS should be a mix of narrative and analysis. However it's impossible to give more specific advice without seeing the essay. The devil is in the details. And the same is true of the MMEs. The activities don't usually have room for much narrative.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thread 'Personal Statement Q&A - May 4, 2025 @ 9 PM Eastern'

Monday at 10:06 PM

In this session, we’ll be diving into the personal statement and its companion essay, Other Impactful Experiences. Learn how to share your unique story.

• WildWing
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Expert Advice Live

Personal Statement Q&A - May 4, 2025 @ 9 PM Eastern