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I'm curious to see how many people entering a DO program (or are interested in one) on this forum actually believe OMM is based on solid science. Or whether they believe science is even necessary.
I'm curious to see how many people entering a DO program (or are interested in one) on this forum actually believe OMM is based on solid science. Or whether they believe science is even necessary.
Yes. I know it works. Ask my back and neck.
Oh, and there are publications out there that agree as well.
I don't know why this is in the pre-osteo forum. I assume that most of us have never experienced OMM first hand, and even if we have we haven't seen enough of it to really support or refute it.
I don't know why this is in the pre-osteo forum. I assume that most of us have never experienced OMM first hand, let alone distinguish whether or not it's biased on science. And even if we have we haven't seen enough of it to really support or refute it.
There are dog experiments that have been done in the past that directly measured lymph flow while doing osteopathic techniques. Flow was found to be heigtened. Since the immune system is directly connected to the lymphatics...you get what I'm trying to say.I'm talking more about the philosophy of OMM as a whole. There are individual parts similar to physical therapy, and although they remove the science from OMM curriculum, there's good evidence it works. Things like cranio-sacral therapy are a crock though. And overall A.T. Still was making things up when he first started doing manipulations.
Ideas like OMM can boost your immune system or cure any disease/disorder outside the musculoskeletal system is also a crock. They do not have any sort of evidence at all.
But this is just what I believe as a possible future osteopath. I'm skeptical of OMM on the whole, but I have an open mind that the evidence could change or someone could show me new evidence I'm unaware of.
How exactly do you double-blind an OMM study? Have a robot perform the manipulation? Toddlers? Who?
Eventually? So if pain goes away after weeks, months, years the agony means nothing? You argued this with medical students and residents before whom all disagreed with you and said the study showed as much promise as it could along with the effectiveness of OMM (not all inclusive). You haven't started school yet; its dangerous to make an opinion on something you haven't learned yet.
I guess I need to read more of the research to decide whether or not OMM is based in solid science. That said, my personal experiences with it and chiropractic are enough to convince me that it's use is warranted, and I plan to use it in my future practice. Even if it's just a placebo effect, if it makes people feel better, to me, it's worthwhile.
MC
I agree with a lot of what you said, but I wouldn't lump it in with chiro.
Chiropractic shares many of the same philosophies as OMM. Lumping them together is pretty fair.
(although it wouldn't be fair to lump DO and DC, they're very different professions and degrees, and the latter dabbles in pseudoscience to a much, much greater degree)
Have both the treatment and the control technician not be physicians. You train the treatment technician in the appropriate technique and the control technician in a placebo technique. Since both technicians think that their treatment is the correct treatment, you now have a double blind method of treatment.How exactly do you double-blind an OMM study? Have a robot perform the manipulation? Toddlers? Who?
But an argument from personal experience is a logical fallacy. First, the procedure has to be grounded in solid science. AT Still was just making things up or guessing.
I'm talking more about the philosophy of OMM as a whole. There are individual parts similar to physical therapy, and although they remove the science from OMM curriculum, there's good evidence it works. Things like cranio-sacral therapy are a crock though. And overall A.T. Still was making things up when he first started doing manipulations.
Ideas like OMM can boost your immune system or cure any disease/disorder outside the musculoskeletal system is also a crock. They do not have any sort of evidence at all.
But this is just what I believe as a possible future osteopath. I'm skeptical of OMM on the whole, but I have an open mind that the evidence could change or someone could show me new evidence I'm unaware of.
I'd say that's dangerous. I also think consistency would be lost. Who knows.Have both the treatment and the control technician not be physicians. You train the treatment technician in the appropriate technique and the control technician in a placebo technique. Since both technicians think that their treatment is the correct treatment, you now have a double blind method of treatment.
I'd say that's dangerous. I also think consistency would be lost. Who knows.
Just making sure you know, there are plenty of things done in medicine that aren't really rooted in science. It's an issue with medicine, not any specific philosophy.
A lot of people don't think this way. They should, but they don't. You don't have to put all your vested interest into OMM, but realize that if it makes the patient feel good, along with other therapies to manage/control/eradicate the condition it can be used. Do enough DOs use it (that can make it practical for their specialty)? No. That's a whole other debate though.Am I the only person who thinks this way?? But if your goal as a physician is to relieve a patients pain and suffering...and you perform OMM on them....and to them it is relieving pain.....have you not just done your job as a physician???
The only way I can see this being unethical is if you market OMM to your patients as being able to do things it hasnt been proven to do. But if you offer to try it on patients and state that it *MAY* help them not *WILL* help them...i really see nothing wrong with that.
Who knows if OMM is placebo effect...and lacks studies to back its efficacy. But you know what? Placebo effect or not, the placebo effect IS well documented in studies and it does work!
A lot of people don't think this way. They should, but they don't. You don't have to put all your vested interest into OMM, but realize that if it makes the patient feel good, along with other therapies to manage/control/eradicate the condition it can be used. Do enough DOs use it (that can make it practical for their specialty)? No. That's a whole other debate though.
It blows my mind. For example, chiropractic is generally considered BS by the medical community....but look at how many people utilize/swear by their treatments!!
I have never had OMM/chiropractic performed on myself, but I have received professional massages after sports injuries...and after the massage the pain tightness level is significantly gone. So while that masseuse may not have been working under published research, they sure as hell fulfilled their job as a masseuse by making me injured area feel better!
The fact that many people swear by something means nothing. Remember what your mother used to say, "If all your friends jumped off a bridge would you do it?". That's the same argument that you use, if a lot of people do it then it must be right.
The fact that many people swear by something means nothing. Remember what your mother used to say, "If all your friends jumped off a bridge would you do it?". That's the same argument that you use, if a lot of people do it then it must be right.
The fact that many people swear by something means nothing. Remember what your mother used to say, "If all your friends jumped off a bridge would you do it?". That's the same argument that you use, if a lot of people do it then it must be right.
Just making sure you know, there are plenty of things done in medicine that aren't really rooted in science. It's an issue with medicine, not any specific philosophy.
There are dog experiments that have been done in the past that directly measured lymph flow while doing osteopathic techniques. Flow was found to be heigtened. Since the immune system is directly connected to the lymphatics...you get what I'm trying to say.
And do you seriously think that structure and functions are not interrelated and that alteration of one can affect the other? That's one of the underlying tenets of osteopathic medicine.
OMM lecture is pointless .
Its kind of tongue in cheek with that comment. I don't go to lecture but they often talk about the science behind OMM which some in this thread are ignoring.What about OMM lab???
Name one. Even if they're not fully tested with a double blind study, they're firmly rooted in known science and often have previous studies leading us to believe they'd work. For example, the flu vaccine.
and to clarify, I was using the example of so many individuals using DCs to hint that although chiropractic may be a pseudoscience...many many people think their treatments work. And if you think a treatment works and your symptoms are relieved....thats as good as gold in my opinion.